poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
LGBT represent 3.8% of population
LGB represent 4% of regular characters on TV.
How is this under represented?
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The 100 S3 |OT| Adventures In Character Assassination - Thursdays 9/8c
- Thread starter TheOddOne
- Start date
LGB represent 4% of regular characters on TV.
How is this under represented?
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
35 out of 881 regular characters, the other 35 are non-regular characters. 35 out of 881 is approximately 4%, which is the same percentage as present in the general population. Which would make LGBT characters accurately represented in terms of numbers.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
I legit don't understand what you're trying to say, can you reword?
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
4% of regular characters on TV are LGB. 4% of the US population identify as LGBT. The number of LGB in the media seems to accurately reflect the number in society.
Okay, so I think what you are getting at is kind of missing the the point. We're not talking about representation as raw numbers, we're talking about representation in nuance and variety of characters, because that is one of the cruxes of art and entertainment media, especially in such a way that stories allow people to view different worlds and different points of view and experiences.
Otherwise I feel like you might be stumbling into thinking tokenism is okay as long as it reflects the population.
It's essentially arguing that all Southeast/East Asian characters are only there to be computer experts or to dispense oriental mysticism to other characters. Or that black characters are all 'from the hood' and act thuggish or are academically disinclined.
The other issue is while there may be a growing increase of LGBTQ+ characters how many of them are treaty with subtly and nuance or all of them just treated as stereotypes. One of the particular issues with The 100's treatment of Lexa is that it brings up a lot of strong feels about lesbian/bisexual women representation in media and why so often they are treated either like they exist solely for the male gaze or that there is some subtle reinforcement that their love is in some way going to end tragically.
This is not just some academic exercise either.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
I disagree. Just because the numbers match does not mean they are portrayed accurately or positively.
Maybe "underrepresented" was a bad term. Misrepresented may be better.
Edit: Sober beat me to it
If you have seen Buffy S6, this ending nearly exactly like the end of that season was a huge issue that the writers saw, and they did it anyway, because they were very dumb.
Killing Lexa isn't the problem, killing Lexa after devoting your first half of S3 to needlessly indulge fan shippers w/ a relationship that shouldn't be happening given you plan to kill her off is. (And then daggering it with the buffy carbon copy.)
Gay male representation is pretty good tho. I suspect that's the big demographic showing up in the LBGT character survey.
Killing Lexa isn't the problem, killing Lexa after devoting your first half of S3 to needlessly indulge fan shippers w/ a relationship that shouldn't be happening given you plan to kill her off is. (And then daggering it with the buffy carbon copy.)
Gay male representation is pretty good tho. I suspect that's the big demographic showing up in the LBGT character survey.
rocketskates
Member
If I hadn't known Lincoln's actor was getting a new acting job that would have been more shocking.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
Anyway don't forget to watch Fear the Walking Dead season 2, starting April 10 on AMC.
Off topic for a bit but it does remind me of a thread in OT a few days ago, but I do wonder how many gay male representation is predominantly white? Like right now the only non-white gay characters I can think of is Miller on The 100 itself and maybe Jamal on Empire. I'm drawing a blank everywhere else just as much.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
I don't remember if it's in there, but check the report I posted on the last page.
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
When I first started watching Fear the Walking Dead, I honestly did not recognize her. I knew the actress that played Lexa would be in that show, but I had never seen her outside of her costume in The 100. I don't think I picked up on it until late in Episode 1 or 2. lol
Prototype Viktor
Member
In the last 5 episodes how many characters that spoke more then twice died and how many of them were minorities/lgbt+?
Season 1 most of the kills were set in stone because there was no way they would have that many extras fkd long. Same with the grounders and mountain people.
Agents of SHIELD, Sirens, Brooklyn Nine Nine all had/have nonwhite gay characters.
Aside from the racial part, there's definitely a diversity of character personality types that didn't used to be there on the masc->fem scale. I think it leans heavier on the masc side, but I don't think that's a problem, simply because that's the representation that's absolutely invisible to people in their day to day life.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
I love Alicia because she tells everyone else to shut the fuck up and to stop being stupid.
She's the voice of reason tbh
You will hate the Walking Dead universe.
Not even popular by that metric, it performs middle of the pack and doesn't look like it sells as well international as the others.
AngmarsKing701
Member
Good discussion and I appreciate the perspectives. I don't mean to derail this thread, so if this should go elsewhere (maybe it's own off topic thread), then let me know and I can start up something that way.
Here are some points I feel need to be made in the whole Clexa discussion:
1. Lexa started making decisions that were influenced by her emotions for Clarke.
2. Lexa has one of two chips embedded in her neck, and no one was going to know that until she died.
3. Clarke loved Lexa.
4. Clarke is going to be changed by Lexa's death and the chip's existence.
Conclusion: Lexa had to die to reveal the chip. Lexa had to die to put Clarke on a different path.
To me, there comes a point where someone like Jason needs to decide whether he's telling a story (which will include tragic and sometimes meaningless deaths) or whether he needs to be aware that he's writing a story in which he owes some responsibility to a character's gender/sex/sexual orientation as a symbol to his audience. He is both writing a story hundreds of years in our future (where gender/sex/sexual orientation is less important than in our world today, because the world is more about survival), but he is engaging in our world, with us as an audience, and therefore needs to be aware that the story he tells and the characters he creates (and un-creates as it were) can have an impact on his show's popularity. I would much rather have the story be told, quite frankly, regardless of its tragedy, regardless of what those watching feel should or shouldn't have happened.
I viewed Lexa's death as tragic. I thought it was wonderful that she and Clarke finally had some moments together that were truly peaceful for them both. I think Lexa's death was intended to be almost pointless, someone in the wrong place at the wrong time, killed at the hands of her much trusted advisor accidentally. Almost like a child being shot in a drive-by shooting. These things happen. So much love and promise and potential snuffed out because of anger and hate. They happen today, they happen in our future, they happen because we're human. This didn't happen because she was a lesbian/bi. And again, it had to happen to put Clarke on her path.
I'll shut up now. Sorry for the wall o text.
Here are some points I feel need to be made in the whole Clexa discussion:
1. Lexa started making decisions that were influenced by her emotions for Clarke.
2. Lexa has one of two chips embedded in her neck, and no one was going to know that until she died.
3. Clarke loved Lexa.
4. Clarke is going to be changed by Lexa's death and the chip's existence.
Conclusion: Lexa had to die to reveal the chip. Lexa had to die to put Clarke on a different path.
To me, there comes a point where someone like Jason needs to decide whether he's telling a story (which will include tragic and sometimes meaningless deaths) or whether he needs to be aware that he's writing a story in which he owes some responsibility to a character's gender/sex/sexual orientation as a symbol to his audience. He is both writing a story hundreds of years in our future (where gender/sex/sexual orientation is less important than in our world today, because the world is more about survival), but he is engaging in our world, with us as an audience, and therefore needs to be aware that the story he tells and the characters he creates (and un-creates as it were) can have an impact on his show's popularity. I would much rather have the story be told, quite frankly, regardless of its tragedy, regardless of what those watching feel should or shouldn't have happened.
I viewed Lexa's death as tragic. I thought it was wonderful that she and Clarke finally had some moments together that were truly peaceful for them both. I think Lexa's death was intended to be almost pointless, someone in the wrong place at the wrong time, killed at the hands of her much trusted advisor accidentally. Almost like a child being shot in a drive-by shooting. These things happen. So much love and promise and potential snuffed out because of anger and hate. They happen today, they happen in our future, they happen because we're human. This didn't happen because she was a lesbian/bi. And again, it had to happen to put Clarke on her path.
I'll shut up now. Sorry for the wall o text.
See, the points you make at the start of your post I also entirely agree with. I think it's just fantastic storytelling. I think when evaluated entirely on its own, "Thirteen" was a really good episode altogether.
Obviously the problem comes when you view it in the light of the wider context of television, then you see for instance the method and framing of how Lexa is killed and the context surrounding that, the only thing you can say (especially if you have a specific past experience with say that scene in Buffy) is literally how tone-deaf can you be in that situation.
Yes, it makes absolute complete sense Lexa might die that way in the context of the show where children in a tribal society are literally asked to kill their way to the top and you have a situation where a leader is trying to hold together an uneasy coalition in her court when everything, including tradition, is asking everyone to choose a path of least resistance, etc. etc. This makes good drama, this has happened before if you've studied history, but that's not the problem.
When you move that situation into real life though, what you see as "wow, Lexa's death was tragic wasn't it?" it just adds to the pile of "well, there's another one telling us lesbian romances end in tragedy" and that starts to reinforce that notion that in some ways, that love is wrong or something. Especially when f/f romances are seemingly underrepresented or treated with as much nuance and care. And when we still exist in a world where some women are still closeted and are afraid to come out for fear of retribution, being disowned, etc., it seems a little disheartening.
AngmarsKing701
Member
I never watched Buffy (please don't hurt me) so I'm missing the tone-deafness aspect. And yes, there's a point where the reality of the world your audience lives in is going to collide with the fiction of the universe your characters live in. I'm just not sure it should have been done any other way. I know there are some who believe the two scenes (the lovemaking and the death scene) should not have been back-to-back, but I believe again that was done on purpose.
Also, wanted to point out that Black Sails has at least three very strong-willed lesbian/bi characters, and all of them are in positions of power, in a very male-dominated pirate universe. And if you're not watching Black Sails, you should be. Fantastic show.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
Having her death come immediately after the love scene is a slap in the face. It was a moment for Clarke, Lexa, and Clexa fans to be happy, to have their ship validated. It has nothing to do with "MY SHIP IS BETTER THAN YOURS, SUCK IT BELLAMY", and everything to do with the fact that at that moment, a strong, dynamic, and influential f/f pairing was made canon on national television. It was a moment of change for the lesbian and bisexual community. It was beautiful, it meant something, and it gave hope to the LGBTQ community that, yeah, maybe, this was going to start to change things for them.
All of that was destroyed five minutes later, when Lexa died tragically in Clarke's arms. I've said before that it was a beautiful scene and that hasn't changed in regards to Clarke and Lexa's interactions and dialogue, and the acting each actor displayed. Like...holy shit. Have you seen the amount of micro expressions Alycia uses? How, with her last ounce of strength, Lexa tries to smile at Clarke? It's incredible. She truly gave her all. But...in short, having the two scenes immediately following each other is disgusting. It's insulting, honestly. At least put them in different episodes, Jesus Christ.
The problem lies in the one-two punch of killing her after confirming their love for each other, therefore making the ship mean nothing, and also how she was killed using one of the laziest and tropiest tropes in the universe. A stray bullet? Are you serious? Clarke's actions also don't make sense. She's a gifted healer, who was able to save Jasper after he had been speared through the chest. His wound was WAY more serious than Lexa's, and yet, here he is. Alive and well and annoying the shit out of me. Did Clarke not think to cauterize the wound, considering there were, like, 20 billion candles around them? No. Instead she lazily holds a rag to her torso and does nothing.
But, I digress. If Lexa had to die, fine. I get that ADC was going to another show. It had to happen eventually. But...make her death a reflection of her life. It can be tragic and sad and still mean something. Let her die in battle, fighting for the peace she struggled to maintain. Let her die protecting Clarke, instead of having her literally go "Hey guys, what's happening in here..." as she's hit by a stray bullet. She literally just walks into the room.
Anyway. I'm tired of being emotionally drained by this fucking show. I've been fighting this battle in here for almost a month now and I'm tired. But...ai gonplei nou ste odon, I guess.
AngmarsKing701
Member
I apologize for bringing up what is obviously a painful subject. As I mentioned earlier, I wasn't really tracking the thread when these things happened, so I was several episodes behind before catching up and getting back into the thread. I honestly didn't understand the backlash/reaction, based on my own perspective of it which I've documented.
I truly appreciate and respect the perspectives you and Sober (and others) have shared.
I'm guessing for this season:
- Either Abby or Kane, considering they have a similar role which doesn't matter in the bigger picture.
- Sinclair who has cheated death. Fully expected him to die as well. Could survive on the background.
- Monty or his mom, forcing the other to look into their alliances. It would be a clear fuck-up of either party.
- Pike. Clearly Pike. He needs to die. After he sees what his actions have caused.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
Thanks for the discussion, man. I appreciate your understanding <3
They're siblings...what kind of Lannister tea...
BewareTheBatsie
Member
Wait, they're siblings? I just thought Ontari was just trained or something by Nia.
EDIT; although they probably are, and knowing me I zoned out whenever it got mentioned.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
...actually I don't think they ever specified
It's not in the wiki at any rate
BewareTheBatsie
Member
Ontari's father is going to turn up as she and Roan blossom into a heartwarming courtship. Then her father reveals that before she was ever born he spent a night with Queen Nia...one that resulted in a son. After all we don't know who Roan's daddy is.
Surprise incest be the one YA craze. Damn you,
Mortal Instruments
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
Leave Clarke alone ;_;
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
lol
Yeah, if Ricky hadn't decided to throw a tantrum on Twitter, Lincoln's death might have actually come as a surprise. Oh well. I still thought it was handled well and I liked the way it was filmed.
(yes everyone watch Black Sailz. Orphan Black also has a great lesbian character btw)
Come on, you can't expect people to actually search around for good media. It's much easier to complain on twitter.
Ricky complaining after he got fired makes it seem like petty fighting instead of standing up against bullying especially because he doesn't name people. And considering the timing of his tweets he would have been long gone from the show before it started. And despite all his complaining he got the best death in the show. Standing up for his people that were being bullied...
she doesn't like Roan for what happened to his mom. She will take Murphy as some concubine. Roan doesn't like Ontari either, he will die for defending Clarke in some way.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
Bob Morley is going to Phoenix Comic Con this year.
...do I want to go? Do I care enough about Bellamy?
...do I want to go? Do I care enough about Bellamy?
http://www.avclub.com/article/when-fan-engagement-goes-wrong-234346 AVClub article on 100 and Shameless' issues with the problems that emerge from courting LBGT shipping fanbases.
The takeaway: The shippers will always, always burn you. Don't pour gasoline on the fire.
The takeaway: The shippers will always, always burn you. Don't pour gasoline on the fire.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2016/04/04/tv-keeps-killing-off-lesbian-characters-the-fans-of-one-show-have-revolted/
The Washington Post on the subject now.
The Washington Post on the subject now.
The Vampire Diaries did kill of two lesbians, belonging to a group of eight bad people introduced at the start of the season, seven of which are now dead. The only one remaining is still alive because she basically took the role of a pregnant cast member.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
Just got internet back, about to watch 3x09. Pray 4 me.
This is regarding the spoiler which is for Vampire Diaries.
It sucks they finally introduced lesbian characters on The Vampire Diaries and then killed them off, but it was inevitable they would as they were "evil". I will say unlike The 100 with Lexa though they treated their death extremely well and had them go out on their own terms, together and with a purpose to save other lives. It was handled WAY better than other shows imo.
Oh boy, safe travels!
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
Kay I knew it was coming but this funeral fucking blows
My heart hurts
My heart hurts
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
"Lexa made each of us vow it."
Agreed.
When Vampire Diaries introduces a new black character, there is a 90% chance they will know magic. So I don't think VD is the best show to compare sensitive matters to.
Also, I can't take Ontari serious, because I watch shows with closed captioning on and I keep seeing "Ontario".
Also, I can't take Ontari serious, because I watch shows with closed captioning on and I keep seeing "Ontario".
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
HI ABBY GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN
HOPE YOU'RE READY TO GIVE CLARKE THE BIGGEST FUCKING HUG EVER, CAUSE SHE NEEDS ONE
HOPE YOU'RE READY TO GIVE CLARKE THE BIGGEST FUCKING HUG EVER, CAUSE SHE NEEDS ONE
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
ontari...girl...you didn't even do anything...all you did was kill some children...in their sleep...
smh if lexa gets put into your head you're never gonna have a moment of peace
edit: now I'm laughing at the thought of ontari trying to sleep but lexa's consciousness keeps singing the same song over and over for hours adafsddsgfdsasaf
edit 2: "if nightblood is so rare why do you let them kill each other? that has to be the dumbest succession plan" - aka Clarke having the most coherent thought to ever grace this damn show
edit 3: FLAMEKEEPER CLARKE YES, also NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO LINCOLN
smh if lexa gets put into your head you're never gonna have a moment of peace
edit: now I'm laughing at the thought of ontari trying to sleep but lexa's consciousness keeps singing the same song over and over for hours adafsddsgfdsasaf
edit 2: "if nightblood is so rare why do you let them kill each other? that has to be the dumbest succession plan" - aka Clarke having the most coherent thought to ever grace this damn show
edit 3: FLAMEKEEPER CLARKE YES, also NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO LINCOLN
The 100 atleast has the guts to kill of two loved main characters within 2 episodes in a row.
...meanwhile in another show...
You forgot the time that show killed off like one person that nobody in the world even remembered. That one was hardhitting.