We need to be on the ball about that kind of voter disenfranchisement. That cheating. Gotta get that cell phone footage out there of the long lines, the confusing flyers, etc. Take the cameras into the voting booths when things are looking shifty. Make it obvious to them that they are being watched and put the pressure on them. And do it early.
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The 4th Democratic Primary Debate
- Thread starter kingkitty
- Start date
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We need to be on the ball about that kind of voter disenfranchisement. That cheating. Gotta get that cell phone footage out there of the long lines, the confusing flyers, etc. Take the cameras into the voting booths when things are looking shifty. Make it obvious to them that they are being watched and put the pressure on them. And do it early.
Thanks
The second one from Harvard has really good, manually written subtitles.
makingmusic476
Member
That Yahoo News piece is actually a good read, and makes me like Bernie all the more. Dislike the headline though.
ErasureAcer
Banned
Better quality Bern.
Need to rotate it so he's looking up on quotes.
ErasureAcer
Banned
You're not voting for Hillary! You're a monster. /HillaryGAF
I'm still in shock that Democrats were dumb enough to distance themselves from it in the midterms
As noted on 538, she's running as an incumbent slash heir to the Obama administration, holding herself out like back when Gore positioned himself as 4 more years of Bill to the electorate. Sanders is running a quasi-opposition campaign.
TheLaughingStock
Member
Why does Bernie Sanders want to play Robin Hood so bad with tax increases? Given:
1. He struggles explaining himself.
2. It's unnecessary.
3. It creates political division and makes his plans DOA.
4. His Republican colleagues have, are, and plan to run yuuugggge deficits if they follow their tax plans.
5. The issue IMO is initial distribution shaped by gov't policy.
6. Hillary is right. Raise income not middle class taxes.
Bernie has gone too far with taxes and unfortunately it's too late to walk it back.
1. He struggles explaining himself.
2. It's unnecessary.
3. It creates political division and makes his plans DOA.
4. His Republican colleagues have, are, and plan to run yuuugggge deficits if they follow their tax plans.
5. The issue IMO is initial distribution shaped by gov't policy.
6. Hillary is right. Raise income not middle class taxes.
Bernie has gone too far with taxes and unfortunately it's too late to walk it back.
Aaronology
Member
I think there is a difference between someone who pretends to support progressive policies but then decides to vote for Trump or abstain if their chosen D candidate doesn't get nominated and a legitimate undecided voter not being enthused by the democrats' offerings and taking his/her vote elsewhere. You were called out as the former and it's fairly disingenuous now to act like Hillary supporters on GAF have lambasted anyone who doesn't favor her.
But Sanders really does demonize Wall Street though, his exact words were "I think that the business model of Wall Street is fraud." Fraud is a felony, he is implying that all of Wall street are criminals who's business model is stealing.
It's a very easy target to hate on Wall Street(even Republicans like Trump and Cruz do it), but there are tons of people who work there who are just doing their jobs and not doing anything wrong. All wall street actually does is help people who want to invest in companies find companies who need investors to grow their business, that's it. You can call for increased regulations and taxes without constantly demonizing in important American industry
Serious question and this is a complete hypothetical. You'd be happy paying $150 on healthcare and paying $200 on taxes per month, instead of paying $0 on healthcare and $250 on taxes? Just because it means your taxes didn't go up?
Wow I really like Bernie here.
Your Entertainer
Member
Nah, it deserves to be demonized.
This is a bad idea, actually. How does one plan to raise income in a hollowing out framework? It's literally diminishing returns in this climate we're in.
SolicitorPirate
Member
Welp. There you have it. Guess I've been doing the devils work all these years.
"How does a rapper end up supporting Senator Sanders?"
"Smoking a joint and reading his tweets."
JesseEwiak
Member
Not me specifically, but yeah, I think there are plenty of people who'd be happy with that, because they have the "freedom" to spend the money on health care or not, but they'd be forced to pay taxes.
Remember, America is weird.
Dangansona
Member
I'm a little bit surprised how hostile some of Hilary GAF is towards Bernie. I'm a Sanders supporter, but I have no major issue with Hilary other than her strange choice to attack Sanders plans for the health care system tonight. Found that she had a couple of likeable moments in the debate.
Well sure the people without families. It's a whole different ball game when families are involved and all your kids now have proper healthcare. It would be important to stress that on any pitch.
Tesseract
Banned
suck it up, you should want to pay more taxes so everyone gets free healthcare
wall street, bankers, insurance companies ... they're all vampires
JesseEwiak
Member
Oh, you sweet summer child. They interviewed dozens of people who were getting Obamacare in Kentucky through the Medicaid expansion who voted for the Republican who was promising to scrap it.
People aren't rational. At all.
I have no problems with Bernie, for the most part. It's his over the top supporters, whether it's claiming that Hillary's a neoliberal corporatist shill who has no actual feelings, that black people should vote for Bernie because he marched with MLK, or that if Bernie doesn't win, they either won't vote, or will vote for Trump.
If you plan to vote for Bernie in the primaries, then Hillary in the election, we've got no beef with you. Hell, I might do that since my state won't matter in the primaries.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
"suck it up"
a good slogan to have when trying to convince people of the man who just said he might just raise your taxes.
Every single thing that poster said is true, Bernie has always had issues explaining himself and some of his ideas that desperately need to be properly explained in detail. Without proper clarification you give huge ammunition to the GOP if he wins the primary (IE WTF is a socialist democrat)
Aaronology
Member
Towards Bernie? Nah. As a person, Sanders is largely favored by most of (liberal) GAF and I think this largely carries over to his politics, even if a lot of people aren't in his camp for various reasons. I think what you are citing is the animosity "Hillary GAF" occasionally has towards "Bernie GAF", which is not directed at the man but at a subset of his very vocal supporters on this board.
Your Entertainer
Member
It's nauseating and the constant backhanded, passive aggressive and submissive comments are unbearable to sift through.
It's the "jesus fucking christ don't do what the GOP is doing now/what the democrats did in the '70s/'80s" thing. This isn't like Obama/Clinton '08 (I was an Obama supporter) despite claims to the contrary.
Tesseract
Banned
we must move toward norwegian systems, automation looms
people against it are selfish, unaware that free will doesn't exist
nobody on this planet earned their wealth
*edit* as bernie said, the tax raise will be a net benefit for most households
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Did Foffy take over your account or is Foffy your alt account
This is a good point. I wonder if liberal gaffers/dem gaf understands or remembers what the democratic party was like back then.
Tesseract
Banned
just stating facts
People who see the same problem are the same person now? Should I pair you with the goons who think a self exists?
So, how is Bernie going to get enough democrats to vote for it in a way that isn't signing the political death warrants of each and every democrat involved?
"Suck it up" is political suicide when it comes to taxes.
This is the problem I see with Bernie. The political revolution he speaks of is a paradigm shift. And our current paradigm has too many unaccountable positions that get in the way of what he argues.
Such change will come, but perhaps when the whole house of cards falls apart, and we're largely assured this will happen.
It has to be beyond a redistributionary capitalist system in the end. Control of the means of production has to be totally democratized or else one class will still benefit more than the other and the internal contradictions of capitalism will still find a way to ruin it over time.
TheLaughingStock
Member
I'd be happy if the US implemented a universal healthcare system that takes around 11% of GDP or less. If Bernie needs to stabilize purchasing power or wants to isolate the costs, then I'm fine with whatever taxes he needs to raise to reflect the benefits I'm receiving. However, I don't want and will fight redistributive taxes purported as needing to finance something because that's the job of private banks and the central bank. It's not my job to provide financing.
I actually totally agree with this and still don't hear Bernie even arguing for it or being a good candidate to advance it. He keeps talking about protecting American jobs. Getting rid of American jobs and instead leveraging automation to provide free wealth to everybody is a much better idea.
What about then? The Democrat party at the time was experiencing a revolt over their treating black people as equals.
I mean, I guess the pragmatic thing to do would have been to bury the Civil Rights Act and Voting Acts in favor of "state's rights" and appeal to the racist majority.
Jimmy Carter, Walter Mondale, George McGovern, Michael Dukakis. The democratic party of today does not want to return to nominating un-electable presidential candidates.
GameAddict411
Member
Bernie is delusional. If he actually think he will do what ever he is saying he is going to do, he should just live in his little world. Obama was not as ambitious, but his presidency gave us a good idea of what kind of limitations a presidents faces toward making a change. Do you think the Congress are going to support Bernie and his huge tax plans on the rich? He would face more resistance than Obama ever did. Hillary isn't amazing either and she seems to be dodging a lot of questions, but she sounds more sane than he is. That's my personal opinion on the matter. One thing is for certain though, the Democrats are going to take the office.
Goldman Sachs are being fined 5 BILLION dollars for bogus marketing of shoddy mortgages aka fraud. Bank of America, JPMorgan were also fined billions of dollars for fraud.
That a lot of lives ruined from fraud.
Democracy.
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