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[cametall]

I see the arguments in here about medical costs, then I recall my clients' (a gamut of doctors) costs, and laugh at GAF's ignorance.

The costs are obscene to run a medical practice.

Something has to be done, but you'd have to blow up and rebuild several industries for this to occur.

 

[RDreamer]

I see the arguments in here about medical costs, then I recall my clients' (a gamut of doctors) costs, and laugh at GAF's ignorance.

The costs are obscene to run a medical practice.

Costs don't don't matter in this context. Profit does. What are the profits?

 

[kms_md]

Yep, you are so right about physicians in the US.

In American doctors, there exists this innate urge to gouge people for as much money as possible while doing the least amount of work. I believe it is a byproduct of the pharmaceutical influence on medical student training in the US leading to the dehumanizing of patient into simple meat bags that only deserve the most perfunctory care.

After all, the doctor is always right, right? No way would they deceive patients.

I think it would totally be better in the long term for doctors to work more and get paid less as their greed and perfidy knows no bounds. They have no idea what it's like to be a patient in today's America.

not sure if serious. and if this is going to be the tenor of the discussion, i am out ...

 

[Jeels]

My girlfriend gave birth in the hospital earlier this year.

- weekly consults with a midwife from the 12th week of pregnancy.
- 6 days in the hospital before going into labor.
- 3 days after giving birth.
- all meals were completely taken care of (for me as well).
- she had a partial epidural after a couple of hours of being in labor.
- she had a cesarean after 12 hours of being in labor (a 10-head team was called in at 1am)
- we had our own room for the entire duration of our stay.
- she had two consults after delivery one for a physical check, one for a psychological check of having an unplanned cesarean.
- all parking charges were waived.
- 5 days of maternity care (8 hours a day) after arriving back home.
- probably a whole lot more I don't even kept track of since everything went so fast.

Our medical bill for this adventure: 0 euros.

Total cost of 1 year of insurance (which covers a shitload more than just this): about 1200 euros.

But you aren't as "free" as we are, so it all even's out.

 

[chrislowe]

I paid around $10 for a parkingticket we got when I had my daughter.
And we got free medical visits and still have.
Free dental care until you are 18.
Etc, gotta love not living in USA sometimes.

I actually thought Obama had a new healtcare-program to fix these problems in the USA?.
Would be very good if it was like in other countries.

 

[big_z]

As a Canadian the one thing I have to commend the American health care is how fast it is.

Two months ago the wife and I went to Disney world for our anniversary, on the first day there my wife developed such pain a pain in her leg/calf that I had to take her to the Hospital.
From the time I walk through the emergency doors, they controlled her pain, gave a Ultrasound scan to check for clots from the flight, had her in a MRI and I was speaking with a neurosurgeon all with in 3 hours. (She had a slipped disk in her back)

That kind of speed just would not happen in Canada. When I damaged my ankle the wait list was so long for a MRI,(7-9 months) the doctor suggested I go down to Montana to have it done and then try and get it reimbursed when I got back.

So while it might be free here (looks at the 38% income tax I pay plus provincial and government taxes) there are definite downsides.

On the plus side my wife got a quick appointment with a back specialist to help with rehabilitation, only a 2 months wait list because of the amount of pain shes in.

This. If I recall there was a news report a while ago about wait times in Canada. A lot of people with treatable issues die due to having to wait so long. I have a MRI appointment, the wait is 10 months. I also had an audiologist appointment and after a month of waiting I paid to see a private one since I figured the request didn't get through. Turns out I was wrong it did get through but it took 3 months for them to call for the appointment then another month before the actual meeting.

I like free but abuse of our health system needs to stop so wait times aren't retarded. Too many stupid people clogging up the system. We need to limit doctor visits to twice a year. After that charge $50 a visit(follow ups free) and put that money into more specialists to eliminate waiting lists.

 

[aceface]

Add this onto the fact that you have to by law go to a hospital to give birth, makes this whole thing fucked.

You do? My wife is having our third baby at home any day now. Second kid was a homebirth as well. New York State here.

 

[Tristam]

As a Canadian the one thing I have to commend the American health care is how fast it is.

Two months ago the wife and I went to Disney world for our anniversary, on the first day there my wife developed such pain a pain in her leg/calf that I had to take her to the Hospital.
From the time I walk through the emergency doors, they controlled her pain, gave a Ultrasound scan to check for clots from the flight, had her in a MRI and I was speaking with a neurosurgeon all with in 3 hours. (She had a slipped disk in her back)

That kind of speed just would not happen in Canada. When I damaged my ankle the wait list was so long for a MRI,(7-9 months) the doctor suggested I go down to Montana to have it done and then try and get it reimbursed when I got back.

So while it might be free here (looks at the 38% income tax I pay plus provincial and government taxes) there are definite downsides.

On the plus side my wife got a quick appointment with a back specialist to help with rehabilitation, only a 2 months wait list because of the amount of pain shes in.

Speed can still be achieved with low costs. Never had to wait for any medical procedure in South Korea. Emergency rooms there are also WAY faster at processing folks than in the U.S. You're put in a bed practically upon entry.

 

[jerry113]

I got some cavities fixed and a wisdom tooth pulled out for $40 in Taiwan, just walk in and no insurance.

 

[Kisaya]

Wow my parents didn't pay anything for me or my siblings, and we live in the US. I guess we have awesome insurance, I never thought anyone had to pay over 1k to give birth >_<

 

[Nuklear]

Oh wow.

As if you don't have enough to worry about that moment.

Born in debt. Fuck.

I don't know what the actual cost is to have a baby in a Canadian hospital, but I suspect it's in the vicinity of zero dollars.

America! Isn't it great!?!

 

[RDreamer]

I got some cavities fixed and a wisdom tooth pulled out for $40 in Taiwan, just walk in and no insurance.

Christ... With insurance my wisdom teeth (3 of them) cost me about $900 out of pocket (insurance covered exactly half)

 

[Durask]

Much of that was how shitty the nursing was compared to the University's. I also didn't have DRG billers filling up my inbox with suggestions on how I dictate my patients' notes during my time at the VA. Oh, and Mayo Clinic's doctors are salaried. Guess they don't get much done either, right?

And um, most University-based doctors are salaried as well. The majority of tertiary care centers, dontcha know.

Well, university based doctors get paid peanuts compared to doctors in private practice.

 

[Darko]

This.
Sometimes I love Canada.

Me too... Me too.
The most Ive gotten was a bill for an ambulance.

 

[Durask]

I got some cavities fixed and a wisdom tooth pulled out for $40 in Taiwan, just walk in and no insurance.

Well, how good a job did they do? How do you know?

I've seen many dentists over the last 10 years and finally found one who does a good job and also a good job explaining to me what he is doing and why.

 

[user_nat]

Not sure why, but I was expecting child birth to be free in the US. Even if the rest of the health care sucks.

It's funny because they actually pay you to have a child here in Australia.

 

[Durask]

Cheers pal just genuinely interested and not about some patriotic willy waving or a stick to beat America with

I think prefer it the way it is over here (the NHS isn't perfect but you can always pay extra for private with the NHS as protection and emergencies) its funny its just something you take for granted and living in England you've never had to worry from a monetary perspective about visiting A & E (ER) or the doctors, then again I imagine my monthly outgoings for tax and national insurance will be more percentage wise than over in America.

I just find the fact that someone can come close to death or be severely injured and then be burdened with such huge costs if uninsured something that is hard to get my head around

Listen, in the UK you have Quality-Adjusted Life Year decision making (google it up).

People in the US will riot if they had the NHS instituted here.

Americans want everything and don't want to pay for it, thus they often get nothing and have to pay for it through the nose. Funny.

 

[ronito]

Our baby will be 7 weeks old tomorrow. The hospital bill for my wife was over $7000 and another $2000 for the baby. This doesn't include anesthesiologist bills or individual doctor bills. The delivery doctor was $3000,and we've yet to see the anesthesiologist bill. Out of pocket after insurance to this point has been about $4000.

It's maddening.

yup this sounds about right. When my last kid was born is was about 2k for the doctor and hospital alone. After everyone took their cut it was about 4-5k after insurance just doctors fees.

 

[Piecake]

Me too... Me too.
The most Ive gotten was a bill for an ambulance.

You'd be surprised how expensive an ambulance ride in america is

 

[Silas Lang]

Welp guess I'm never having kids unless my economic situation drastically improves.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

.

 

[jerry113]

Well, how good a job did they do? How do you know?

I've seen many dentists over the last 10 years and finally found one who does a good job and also a good job explaining to me what he is doing and why.

Trusted dentist used a lot by my family. It's legit clean place downtown in the capital, not a hole in the wall. Not a poor country, you know?

Well I never got a wisdom tooth pulled before then, so I don't have much experience to compare to. It took an hour (I had this weird thing where the tooth was impacted and was half-out already), anesthized my mouth with needles (I wasn't put unconscious), extracted, stitched up the opening, and then sent off with some painkillers and cottonballs.

edit: On second thought, I did make an appointment, and the dentist was an old acquaintance of my family's so maybe I just got a good deal... but I'm pretty sure that getting a wisdom tooth pulled should still cost under $80 normally.

 

[Valnen]

Welp guess I'm never having kids unless my economic situation drastically improves.

10,000 is nothing compared to what it costs to feed, clothe, and raise the thing. Raising kids is expensive, I wouldn't do it unless I was making 6 figures these days.

 

[Surface of Me]

10,000 is nothing compared to what it costs to feed, clothe, and raise the thing. Raising kids is expensive, I wouldn't do it unless I was making 6 figures these days.

10,000 all at once is sort of a big deal, the cost of raising it is spread over time.

Looks like I'm having babies with a Canadian or no babies at all.

 

[ronito]

10,000 all at once is sort of a big deal, the cost of raising it is spread over time.

Looks like I'm having babies with a Canadian or no babies at all.

Well that's if you're blessed to have a healthy kid.
Have a kid with asthma? Prepare for a car payment a month for meds. Worse? prepare for worse.

 

[freenudemacusers]

Yikes, glad my wife is in the airforce. Kid cost $0 as did my wisdom teeth removal.

 

[Silas Lang]

10,000 is nothing compared to what it costs to feed, clothe, and raise the thing. Raising kids is expensive, I wouldn't do it unless I was making 6 figures these days.

Yeah I had always know that they would be expensive when it comes to actually raising them, but was completely unaware of the ridiculous medical costs on top of all that though. How does a family with even a median household income pay for medical costs on top of all the items needed for the baby? Your right in that it sounds like you would indeed need six figures to be able to pay somewhat comfortably. Sucks, I actually want kids in the future but I don't think I will ever have enough money to properly do so.

 

[Windu]

Yeah I had always know that they would be expensive when it comes to actually raising them, but was completely unaware of the ridiculous medical costs on top of all that though. How does a family with even a median household income pay for medical costs on top of all the items needed for the baby? Your right in that it sounds like you would indeed need six figures to be able to pay somewhat comfortably. Sucks, I actually want kids in the future but I don't think I will ever have enough money to properly do so.

insurance.

 

[RevDM]

Much of that was how shitty the nursing was compared to the University's. I also didn't have DRG billers filling up my inbox with suggestions on how I dictate my patients' notes during my time at the VA. Oh, and Mayo Clinic's doctors are salaried. Guess they don't get much done either, right?

And um, most University-based doctors are salaried as well. The majority of tertiary care centers, dontcha know.

The majority of doctors are not at academic centers and they are not mostly salaried either. Where did you get that from?

 

[GraveRobberX]

Is any watching 60 Minutes?

They just did a piece on HMA (Health Management Associates)

That shit right their is USA Healthcare at a small scale level

I cringe whenever I hear @ Profit Health Company

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

Christ... With insurance my wisdom teeth (3 of them) cost me about $900 out of pocket (insurance covered exactly half)

With no insurance and in a private non subsidised practice I paid 150 dollars (equivalent) per wisdom teeth.

That's part of the beauty of a public single payer system: it drags down the private sector into sensible prices.

 

[Jake.]

re: canadian wait times, australia can have some absurd wait times for certain specialists and/or procedures too. one endocrinologist i was referred to had a waiting list of 9+ months.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

Generalize much?

...

 

[Piecake]

re: canadian wait times, australia can have some absurd wait times for certain specialists and/or procedures too.

I'd much prefer wait times to non-emergency procedures than pay out the ass for insurance, co-pays, procedures not covered by insurance, and anything that goes over your insurance limit.

I know I would go to the hospital more if it wasnt for fucking co-pays

 

[davepoobond]

suddenly abortions sound more reasonable.

 

[captmorgan]

I'd much prefer wait times to non-emergency procedures than pay out the ass for insurance, co-pays, procedures not covered by insurance, and anything that goes over your insurance limit.

I know I would go to the hospital more if it wasnt for fucking co-pays

To be fair here you pay out the ass with taxes and there`s wait times. Its the best of both worlds.

 

[Durask]

Trusted dentist used a lot by my family. It's legit clean place downtown in the capital, not a hole in the wall. Not a poor country, you know?
edit: On second thought, I did make an appointment, and the dentist was an old acquaintance of my family's so maybe I just got a good deal... but I'm pretty sure that getting a wisdom tooth pulled should still cost under $80 normally.

You mentioned that for $40 you got several fillings and also had a tooth pulled.
In the US just the materials for this will cost over $40.

 

[Piecake]

To be fair here you pay out the ass with taxes and there`s wait times. Its the best of both worlds.

I dont think you understand how much health care costs in America. We pay more, health care costs more and we can't cover everyone. And since it costs so much, most people dont go unless there is something seriously wrong with them.

So yea, while you pay for health care in taxes, we pay more in premiums, co-pays and out of pocket expenses, easily

 

[Manmademan]

How much does it actually cost to deliver a baby?

It was $1000 for us out of pocket, and we had insurance coverage- and not shit coverage either. To be fair, she needed a C-section and was in the hospital for about 3 days. Without that it might have been less.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

What about my post do you think is sad?

Having the best education of doctors and still not every citizen can actually benefit from it, except when he/she pays crazy insurance charges.

 

[Devolution]

To be fair here you pay out the ass with taxes and there`s wait times. Its the best of both worlds.

How many people there are bankrupted and in debt solely due to medical costs, hospital bills or prescription medication?

 

[Perkel]

Well, in a country where you pay to receive phone calls, it's not that far fetched lol

wait wat ? you pay for someone calling you ?

 

[Delusibeta]

You mentioned that for $40 you got several fillings and also had a tooth pulled.
In the US just the materials for this will cost over $40.

Meanwhile in the UK, I forget what the NHS rates are, but for something like that, we're probably talking £100 tops. Assuming you can find an NHS dentist.

 

[mrklaw]

how long is the average stay in a US hospital for a standard, no complications birth?

In the UK, you're pretty much told to fuck off if your contractions aren't close enough together yet, and then kicked out once the bleeding isn't too bad. 24-48 hours average I'd guess.

Long stays = expensive, so I'm also guessing in the US they keep you in for at least a few days 'just to make sure'

 

[Impeccable]

To be fair here you pay out the ass with taxes and there`s wait times. Its the best of both worlds.

I want one day for someone not as lazy as me to figure out the actual cost of healthcare in Canada per month. (I'm too lazy to even search.)


Also, wait times aren't as bad as people envision, yes, there are extreme cases but it's not the average.

 

[Friggz]

I work for a fortune 100 company. And my first baby next may is going to cost me about 8500 out of pocket. And thats with the more expensive insurance package selected.

They changed their benefits package/policy about 3 years ago as a way to cut costs. I remember the all employee meeting when this was explained and the look on other faces wasnt pretty.

 

[gutter_trash]

I find it ridiculous that you must pay a hospital bill for giving birth, like what? head hurts over here. LOL

.................

here:

GOD BLESS CANADA NOT BEING USA

 

[GaimeGuy]

I want conservatives to stop pulling out the bullshit "wait times" excuse.

You want to hear about wait times? Last year I felt a lump on my testicle, and I called my medical center about it. They wanted to schedule me for an ultrasound in six weeks. If the lump was cancer, that's enough time for it to spread to other areas of the body and triple or quadruple in size.

I called back 3 times until I got a receptionist that would schedule me the following week.


If America is so fucking great about wait times, what the hell do you call my experience? Fucking republicans and libertarians think we should eat shit and call it chocolate.

"Oh, you have a lump on your testicle, and you're in the age range where testicular cancer is most common? LOL SEE YOU IN SIX WEEKS"

WHY ARE YOU DEFENDING THAT? WHY ARE YOU POINTING THE FINGER AT OTHER COUNTRIES? YOUR COUNTRY SUCKS.

PS: The ultrasound cost me $600 out of pocket, with insurance

 

[Patrick Bateman]

how long is the average stay in a US hospital for a standard, no complications birth?

In the UK, you're pretty much told to fuck off if your contractions aren't close enough together yet, and then kicked out once the bleeding isn't too bad. 24-48 hours average I'd guess.

Long stays = expensive, so I'm also guessing in the US they keep you in for at least a few days 'just to make sure'

E.g. Germany uses the DRG (diagnosis related groups) where a doctor has to diagnose the patient and the system tells him how long the patient has to stay minimum/maximum. Because for every case the hospital gets money. And if the patient stays 10 days instead of the provided 5 days - problem of the hospital.
Thus they pretty much try to get patients out as fast as possible.

 

[SniperHunter]

Oh wow.

As if you don't have enough to worry about that moment.

Born in debt. Fuck.

I don't know what the actual cost is to have a baby in a Canadian hospital, but I suspect it's in the vicinity of zero dollars.

HOLY SHIT! this is insane!!! WTF America?