And we're just behind Poland, and North Ireland and Cuba and Hungary and well almost the rest of the first world. All of whom pay much less in healthcare.
This does not necessarily represent shortcomings in healthcare at all.
The $70 childbirth bill
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This does not necessarily represent shortcomings in healthcare at all.
Sometimes I don't understand these types of comments. Don't Canadians pay really high taxes so the healthcare is "free"??? So technically it isn't because all citizens are paying it through taxes, you just don't get charged on the spot when you get out of the hospital.
At least that's what I understood?
Pardon my ignorance, AARP ?
Yeah I mean as I say, I try to listen to their reason but I cant seem to fathom it at all.
trineo_feo
Member
How is that a worse option? It's cheaper for everyone in the end..
Plus having to worry about money when you're ill is a horrible thing to have to think about. Especially childbirth, you've turned a beautiful part of human life into a disgusting thing by making people worry about something as petty as money. It's not like europeans don't pay for it but just knowing you don't have to think about it must be a complete weight off your mind.
But you're still paying...it really isn't free like a lot of people claim. Also I'm not arguing it's a worse system to use, it's obviously the superior one, just speaking about those who claim it's free.
AARP = American Association of Retired Persons. It is probably the single most powerful citizens' group in the USA. They have enormous lobbying influence and no political decision gets made that affects people over the age of 55 without taking the AARP into account. People aged 55+ in the USA vote in larger numbers than other age groups. AARP has a lot of influence over its own members, they'll vote how they're told and support/protest legislation as they're told. For there to have been a rebellion over AARP supporting Obamacare shows how deeply ingrained it is in those peoples' heads that health care form, universal health care reform, whatever you want to call it = evil socialism.
The weird part is that same demographic can't get enough Medicare and Social Security. Basically they want all the social entitlements for themselves.
scar tissue
Banned
In first-world countries, it is.
Well I honestly don't know, that's why I was asking.
Of course youre still paying. Youre just not paying 100-200 bucks a month for insurance, 500 dollar co-pays, and any expenses that your insurance doesnt cover at the point of service, which can be A LOT
Paying for it all through taxes (and spending less money doing it) while covering everyone is a no-brainer. I just can't fathom how anyone would be opposed to universal health care
These are the people that would benefit from it !!! Now I'm completely stumped.
US is totally third world right? Derp.
I'm currently on the Obstetrics and Gynecology service. The amount of resources that go into delivering a single baby is ridiculous. On average, a mother will stay in the hospital for 2 days after delivery. These rooms are usually single rooms or a double room. Never large wards. Includes 3 meals a day, TV, frequent visits by doctors, nurses, social workers, legal staff. During this time, the infant gets an extensive medical work up including genetic, blood, and physical testing. This is just after the birth.
The birthing process usually has a doctor and several support staff and takes a few hours. An anesthesiologist is frequently involved to give nerve blocks/epidurals.
Before the child is even born and the patient is in labor, frequent pelvic exams and vital sign monitoring is taking place to try and spearhead any possible complications that arise.
Not to mention...this is a 24 hour operation with no scheduled breaks. If you ask me, the high cost is well justified.
The birthing process usually has a doctor and several support staff and takes a few hours. An anesthesiologist is frequently involved to give nerve blocks/epidurals.
Before the child is even born and the patient is in labor, frequent pelvic exams and vital sign monitoring is taking place to try and spearhead any possible complications that arise.
Not to mention...this is a 24 hour operation with no scheduled breaks. If you ask me, the high cost is well justified.
When people say "free", they're always talking out-of-pocket.
And no, taxable income was never in your pocket to begin with so that doesn't count.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
That image is in bad taste, what with the 9/11 attacks in the background.
More money that gets spent = better for the economy? That would be my guess, idk
When it comes to health care, it sure is
Angelus Errare
Banned
Holy shit, this has exploded my mind.
Its better for insurance, drug, and medical companies, for sure, but its not better for the average citizen, and the average citizen is what drives our economy. We save money on health care, the average citizen would still spend that money buying things. They just wouldnt spend it on health care. They'd spend it on other things that they need/want
Buying things would be better for our economy due to diversity instead enriching one sector of our economy
From what I can tell, that report mostly concludes that one of the main reason the US lags is due to a lot of trash in the system, which is something I would agree with. I do not believe that physicians in the US are any worse than international physicians, however from this it seems to me that a lot of the problems rely in the extraneous costs: administration, unnecessary expenditures, etc.
and us not covering 50 million citizens when every other country covers all of their citizens for much lower costs
You Are Viewtiful
Member
Nope. Americans actually pay more taxes to fund their healthcare than Canadians i.e the American government pays more for health care per capita than the Canadian government.
This was in 2004 before Obama care and all that so it is probably more expensive now.
Exactly. The money going to insurance, drug, and medical companies bounces around at the top but rarely trickles down to help the economy.
The money that goes to them would better be spent buying food, clothing, housing, entertainment, etc. I.E. driving up demand of commodities and goods. That is what really drives the American economy.
The current American healthcare system is such an inefficient piece of shit, and we piss away billions of dollars each year.
Good thing I don't live in the US then lol what the hell?
Indeed. I'd argue that efficiency is a huge problem that we need to deal with. Like your report says, a lot of money gets blown on stupid things, like 6 figure salaries for health administrators and unneeded testing with expensive equipment (MRIs etc).
I still don't think this concludes that US physicians are any worse. If anything, they are being raised in a system that does not promote checklists and efficiency, which I'd bet is something accentuated in the other 6 countries. Furthermore, a lot of wasteful maneuvers (like those expensive scans) are not inherently due to physicians' incompetence, but because the US is a society that loves malpractice. To not use a costly scan could mean that 1% chance you missed something, and a high chance of being sued.
so because its expensive = third world. ok.
I agree with that. Our health care system sucks. Our doctors do not
What the hell do you call a system that can't cover 50 million people when all other first world nations can cover all of their citizens for far less cost?
Again, it is entirely possible (I'd argue likely) that this reflects lifestyle, prior access to healthcare, etc. rather than second-rate treatment.
But you pay less. Guaranteed. When there's finite money in a pot, you spend it wisely. No amount of lobbying buys needlessly expensive branded meds or overpriced equipment. When you blow your budget on £5 Nurofen-branded Ibuprofen instead of generic 20p Ibuprofen, you don't stay in a job very long with the NHS.
Healthcare in the US only costs as much as it does because every link in the chain is trying to maximise it's own profits. There's no need for cost savings and efficiency because the costs and waste get passed directly to the public.
astroturfing
Member
hmm, i had to check how much giving birth costs here in socialist utopia Finland. apparently in some cities/areas it's completely free, but some hospitals do charge per day how long you have to stay there (doesn't matter what the reason is for staying). something like 20-30 euros per day. pretty reasonable.
CornBurrito
Member
Is it sad that I don't believe this story because the procedure cost only came out to 5000?
Lol ok, well then the Amenable death rate certainly is and the us fares just as poorly there too
Lamel
Banned
Lol yeah like everyone giving birth belongs to an upper-middle class family with good insurance/finances that can actually afford this.
If anything, you'll end up with much fewer births from the folks who can afford it (responsible couples, etc) and the majority will be from people who couldn't afford it to begin with. Less money into the system, worse situation in the end.
I know, I know. Mom had cable in the room, didn't have to miss Honey Boo Boo.
Derp.
Amenable death: "deaths from certain causes before age 75 that are potentially preventable with timely and effective health care".
OH MY GOD are you telling me that when people have less access to primary care and mostly rely on emergency care that they are more likely to die from preventable causes? NO WAY.
Lamel
Banned
I think there needs to be some distinguishing between Health Care System and Health Care.
The system sucks in the U.S. The actual care provided by the doctors does not. U.S. Physicians are likely the best trained in the world as our medical schools are the best in the world.
It is unfortunate that doctors with such excellent education and pedigree are unable to give care to many people simply due to administrative nonsense.
The system sucks in the U.S. The actual care provided by the doctors does not. U.S. Physicians are likely the best trained in the world as our medical schools are the best in the world.
It is unfortunate that doctors with such excellent education and pedigree are unable to give care to many people simply due to administrative nonsense.
I can't speak for others, but when I was born in 1988, there were 13-17 attending nurses, doctors, and specialists (I was born at 30 weeks, and my mom was on bedrest in the hospital for the last 3 months of the pregnancy).
My dad says the bill for my birth alone was over $100,000
CornBurrito
Member
"Personal responsibility and freedom."
"Just get a better job with health benefits. I did it and so can you."
"Fuck you, got mine."
I don't get the sarcasm. Isn't that exactly the problem with America's healthcare system? That's what all these nice, fancy charts, graphs, and analysis always point to.
The actual healthcare (doctors, tech, etc.) is quite good if not the best in the world. The problem is that very few can afford it and the avg taxpayer still ends up paying more for healthcare they will never get than other countries with universal healthcare.
I never got the freedom argument. Yay, I have the choice to choose what insurance plan fucks me over! My choices all suck butt, but that choice is what's important!
shira
Member
Yeah CDN docs are playing the system though. They get more for a c-section so the controversey has been are they recommending it more than they should.
The main reason for the high mortality rate is a lack of midwives. IIRC, midwives only attend around ~10% of births in the US, compared to 100% in the UK.
Midwives are specifically trained to spot problems with newborn babies and give advice to the mother to help them care for the baby. When my son was born the midwives showed me how to do everything, how to safely hold, bathe and feed him, how to put him to bed so he doesn't suffocate in his sleep, etc.
Why you wouldn't want someone like that taking care of your newborn baby is baffling.
Extra Sauce
Member
As a Canadian I don't understand how people can function in the US with hospital bills this high. Is insurance coverage decent in general?
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