Support NeoGAF

[ManaByte]

 

[Bragr]

The line kinda rolled completely off me because in fact, I think everyone might find, that the world is actually run by rich old white men.

That belongs in the same thought cycle as "all crime are done by blacks" or "all jews work in banks".

Statistically, you could likely find a massive overrepresentation of jews in the banking system compared to others, or blacks in the prison system, but you don't talk like that, because its categorizes race and place blame on everyone in that box.

That white people somehow run the entire world is as dumb as anti-vaccs. The world is bigger than eu and north america.

 

[Bragr]

It was an alright movie, but I'm so sick and tired of these comic book characters turning into realistic mass murder movies. The plotline was also too similar to joker.

 

[strange headache]

That white people somehow run the entire world is as dumb as anti-vaccs. The world is bigger than eu and north america.

Pff what do you know? Saudi oil billionaires, Chinese oligarchs, African warlords and South American barons don't really count.
Russian oligarchs and American billionaires, it's all just the same by virtue of their skin complexity, all of them are white men!

Even in Hollywood, Ava DuVernay, Kathleen Kennedy, Sofia Coppola, Oprah and Anna Wintour, clearly all of them must be white men

 

[FunkMiller]

That belongs in the same thought cycle as "all crime are done by blacks" or "all jews work in banks".

Statistically, you could likely find a massive overrepresentation of jews in the banking system compared to others, or blacks in the prison system, but you don't talk like that, because its categorizes race and place blame on everyone in that box.

That white people somehow run the entire world is as dumb as anti-vaccs. The world is bigger than eu and north america.

Poorly written, I’ll confess. I meant that in the context of Catwoman’s life, it’s an accurate assessment. And therefore nothing wrong with it as a line in a movie. It fits the character. It fits the situation. And it’s undermined by the person she says it to. All this whining about wokism is a waste of time in this context.

 

[Bragr]

Poorly written, I’ll confess. I meant that in the context of Catwoman’s life, it’s an accurate assessment.

Sure, but if Batman mostly fought blacks, should he say "those damn blacks" because it fits his context? that would never fly.

 

[FunkMiller]

Sure, but if Batman mostly fought blacks, should he say "those damn blacks" because it fits his context? that would never fly.

But… he doesn’t do that, does he?

So that’s a weird comparison to make.

In Catwoman’s world, old rich white dudes run the show.

It‘s just so damn weird so many of you get so riled up by shit like this. One line in an entire movie…

 

[Hardensoul]

I only saw one trailer of this movie and was able to stay away from reviews! This movie did not live up to my expectations of a Batman movie. It didn’t feel heroic, it was too mood, slow pace and too long.

Batman being at the crime scenes with the cops didn’t make sense, since most of the cops didn’t trust Batman. Also when they had chance to uncover his masked, why didn’t they do it when he was blacked out or restrained him! They took him to the Police station! That whole scene was unnecessary!

It seem like Batman didn’t really solve any main crimes. Only thing he solved were the riddles and even that he didn’t tie everything together and failed to stop the last event.

Agree the costume was great, but overall movie was not for me.

 

[Hardensoul]

Finally saw it yesterday.
I thought it was ok, still had fun but it was really underwhelming and the length didn't feel justified. Loved the look and mood and I think Pattinson did a great job as Batman (not a fan of his Bruce, though that has more to do with the writing).

It was nice having a Batman movie that really leans into the detective aspect of the characters but the actual investigation and riddles were pretty bland. Too much stuff solved with coincidence and luck and too much time spent getting to people only to be like "you are the one I'm looking for!", "nope", "oh, ok". The whole "Rata Alada" thing in particular just felt really dumb and there were a bunch of small inconsistencies that just add app.
Like opening with a whole monologue about the symbol being something criminals recognize only for the first thugs to not know who he is, or Batman not backing away when a bomb was obviously about to blow, or him being blacked out surrounded by police and no one taking his mask off, or the DA having zero protection when he was an obvious target, etc.

The final act was also pretty bland and didn't fit the rest of the movie. It felt like they remembered superhero movies need to end with a big fight, and it also diminishes the Riddler IMO, he goes from exposing and punishing the corrupt to generic mass murder

This is almost exactly how I felt watching the movie! That one chase sequence with penguin was the same. Way to much close up cuts and coincidentally an out to escape the chaos!

 

[Hardensoul]

That hallway scene is ridiculous.

There's at least two henchmen at all times opening up full auto fire on Batman IN THE DARK while he's fistfighting other henchmen. The fact that Batman has an insanely strong body armor is goofy [comes up later in the movie too where he gets shot multiple times with a large caliber bullet from point-blank range], but the fact that they don't hit their teammates is nothing short of a miracle.

There's like 7 guys firing full automatic rifles at Batman point blank and he just shrugs it off. With that goofy BUM-BUMBUM-BUUUM music. It's just too far beyond the suspension of disbelief.

Looked cool though, and that was definitely the point.

Also the explosion point blank! But no scratches or burns! Damn the suit is better than a tank! But can’t take a shot gun!

 

[12Goblins]

the line is deeply ironic considering she is saying it to the most privileged white person in all of gotham, and yet he's doing the most for the city. meanwhile she's a minority, lives in the streets and lives a life of crime

he looks at her, and says nothing, showing us how flawed her view of the world is

 

[Bragr]

But… he doesn’t do that, does he?

So that’s a weird comparison to make.

In Catwoman’s world, old rich white dudes run the show.

It‘s just so damn weird so many of you get so riled up by shit like this. One line in an entire movie…

But he doesn't? I don't know what you think that says. I don't understand how you can't see the comparison. It's pretty easy to get.

The reason why people get "riled up", or irritated, is because it's not an accident that it's in the movie. The writers probably think it's socially correct and sort of cool but would quit their jobs if it was in reverse. Zoe Kravitz is also a notable wackjob when it comes to race and said she loved it. It's race-baiting.

 

[Fbh]

This is almost exactly how I felt watching the movie! That one chase sequence with penguin was the same. Way to much close up cuts and coincidentally an out to escape the chaos!

I didn't get into it in my post but IMO the chase was the dumbest part of the movie.

Batman, the hero who doesn't kill, shows no regard for collateral damage. The whole accident as depicted 100% resulted in civilian deaths.
And it's all for the sake of chasing the Penguin who ... corrects the Spanish word for them and then gets released.

And Alfred had even told Batman the Spanish was wrong, which he ignored. Then later he is like "there's no way he made a mistake, it must be intentional!"

 

[Hardensoul]

I didn't get into it in my post but IMO the chase was the dumbest part of the movie.

Batman, the hero who doesn't kill, shows now regard for collateral damage. The whole accident as depicted 100% resulted in civilian deaths.
And it's all for the sake of chasing the Penguin who ... corrects the Spanish word for them and then gets released.

And Alfred had even told Batman the Spanish was wrong, which he ignored. Then later he is like "there's no way he made a mistake, it must be intentional!"

If the tone of the movie wasn’t going for the gritty realism, I could’ve suspend my disbelief! The movie failed that, due to all the inconsistencies in those scenes!

Spoiler

Riddler was more of the crime solver and caught more of the big criminals

lol

 

[SirKicksalot]

Dude what if Batman slowly reaches into an angry bat's cage but the bat is so mad he's banging his head into the walls and doesn't notice the way out???

Snyder is more subtle.

 

[Darklor01]

Visually pretty, nice dark vibe and Pattinson is a good Batman - certainly better than Affleck. I didn't mind the long duration either. But I felt very emotionally uninvested throughout the film. The story and the characters didn't capture me. Some scenes came across as rather awkard e.g. the shot with the flare near the end. It was an OK movie.

I can identify with this. I’m supposed to also believe this is year 2, I think, of him being Batman but going by “Vengeance”?

In just year 2 he seems to have a lot of gear. Not only a lot of gear, but, his suit is pretty much Indestructible and at the same time inconsistent in how good it is.

Clearly, this version of Batman has some detective skills, but hasn’t been taught by a master detective… at least, not yet.

I think this was harder to be invested in since it was not an origin story, or him being a full on proper Batman in the way we are used to seeing him.

The Riddler was more of a Son of Sam kind of killer or Zodiac killer than a Batman psychopath the way we’re used to seeing.

We also don’t get to see how the relationship between The Batman and Detective Gordon began and got to a place of trust.
We just sort of have to accept what they tell us.

I think, in three hours, they could have done more to get us invested into the world, the characters, and help us to understand how we got to where we are in Batman’s life and skills levels.

Just my thoughts though.

 

[FunkMiller]

the line is deeply ironic considering she is saying it to the most privileged white person in all of gotham, and yet he's doing the most for the city. meanwhile she's a minority, lives in the streets and lives a life of crime

he looks at her, and says nothing, showing us how flawed her view of the world is

No, no. It's just woke propaganda with absolutely no nuance or subtlety at all

It's a real shame the anti-woke brigade have jumped on what is actually a very clever set-up, and a great little character moment for both Catwoman and Batman.

It's perfectly feasible to have a character make a statement about something, without immediately jumping to the conclusion that the entire movie agrees with that statement, or wants to push it as the truth. Kinda like saying Taxi Driver is 100% behind Travis Bickle's view of the world.

 

[ThatStupidLion]

It had some cool moments but overall a pretty god damn mediocre movie.

Story, Pacing, characters all felt disconnected, rushed, and messy.

Feels like they could have done SO much better.

Really disliked the casting for everyone, riddler and batman irked me the least. But stil meh. Actually, i would say penguin irked me the least, not really sure why colin farrel was cast for that role. Seems completely off his style of acting. The makeup design for penguin made me not enjoy the character though.

this could have been marketed as a catwoman film. I swear she had more lines than bruce wayne/batman.

Happy i didnt see this in theaters

Not very optimistic for any further movies in this series. I’ll catch them on demand just because they are a dofferent take on batman and halfway decent. But not getting a rewatches from me.

Garbo ending too imo.

 

[Hardensoul]

It had some cool moments but overall a pretty god damn mediocre movie.

Story, Pacing, characters all felt disconnected, rushed, and messy.

Feels like they could have done SO much better.

Really disliked the casting for everyone, riddler and batman irked me the least.

this could have been marketed as a catwoman film. I swear she had more lines than bruce wayne/batman.

Happy i didnt see this in theaters

Not very optimistic for any further movies in this series. I’ll catch them on demand just because they are a dofferent take on batman and halfway decent. But not getting a rewatches from me.

Garbo ending too imo.

Yea, what the hell happened to the ending!

Spoiler

The Riddler basically won!

 

[ManaByte]

Yea, what the hell happened to the ending!

Spoiler

The Riddler basically won!

 

[Hardensoul]

I’m just commenting on how underwhelming the ending was!

Spoiler

Batman wasn’t able to solve the riddle in time to stop the explosions. Or the pointless bike escort to see cat woman off. But it does certainly hinting at Joker talking to Riddler.

 

[FunkMiller]

Yea, what the hell happened to the ending!

Spoiler

The Riddler basically won!

Eh. The joker does in The Dark Knight too, to be fair.

 

[SJRB]

I’m just commenting on how underwhelming the ending was!

Spoiler

Batman wasn’t able to solve the riddle in time to stop the explosions. Or the pointless bike escort to see cat woman off. But it does certainly hinting at Joker talking to Riddler.

Isn't that the point though? Batman was too caught up in Catwoman's and his own drama to pay enough attention to the Riddler and his tricks.

I mean, the entire highway chase with dozens of cars destroyed and god knows how many people injured is all caused by a translation error because Batman failed to doublecheck this one simple thing.

He's kinda sloppy. But, again, that's kinda the point. it's only his second year, he's still getting in the groove [aside from beating random criminals to a pulp, I suppose].

 

[strange headache]

the line is deeply ironic considering she is saying it to the most privileged white person in all of gotham, and yet he's doing the most for the city. meanwhile she's a minority, lives in the streets and lives a life of crime

he looks at her, and says nothing, showing us how flawed her view of the world is

This interpretation is wrong and flat out contradicts how that line was marketed, see the actresses' own interview. If you want to justify this by creating your own head-canon, that is on you.

I mean, the entire highway chase with dozens of cars destroyed and god knows how many people injured is all caused by a translation error because Batman failed to doublecheck this one simple thing.
He's kinda sloppy.

Getting involved in a huge highway crash, causing the death of dozens of innocent civilians is more than just "kinda sloppy".
That is why the movie is all style over substance, it just wanted to have a cool scene with the Batmobile, without caring much for narrative coherence.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Getting involved in a huge highway crash, causing the death of dozens of innocent civilians is more than just "kinda sloppy".
That is why the movie is all style over substance, it just wanted to have a cool scene with the Batmobile, without caring much for narrative coherence.

It honestly amazing how much context and meaning you have missed with this movie and yet still try to pretend to have some kind of expert analysis and opinion of any of its meaning.


The film takes place when Bruce has only been Batman for 2 years or so. He is a noob basically. This is not supposed to be the polished and perfected Batman who has an answer for everything we are used to seeing. This version is supposed to be inexperienced, damaged, impulsive, clumsy, and overall just not what we as an audience have ever seen before on the big screen. The scene where he met alone with Falcone and put himself at the mercy of a cold blooded killer while in an extremely emotional state should have been the glaring example of that being the case. "Adult Batman" or however you want to label the Batman we are used to seeing would never have done that. This is a neophyte "Batman". A guy that is just getting started on the road of what he will become. The movie beats us over the head with this fact. He made so many mistakes throughout the movie that it was hard to keep track.


He is emotional, distracted, clumsy, impulsive, and angry. None of this is what we the audience expect out of the usual "Batman" persona we are used to. We as an audience have been bred by comics and movies to expect a borderline perfect robot that operates on a higher level than those around him. This time we got to see what he was like at the start. A glimpse at the raw and unforged man that would eventually become the Dark Knight. So yeah the chase scene was stupid. It was reckless. It went against everything that Batman as we have historically known him to be, but this is a Batman we have never seen. It was SUPPOSED to be treated as an insane risk and a stupid move on his part. The fact it also made for a huge spectacle and a huge action scene is irrelevant.


This scene was not just masturbatory action scenes for the sake of it. It was meant to show that Bruce at this point was tunnel-visioned into this situation. He was not thinking straight. He had his target, but no real restraints yet that his time and experience will eventually bring. He saw his guy and he wanted him right then right there. This was Batman at his emotional worst. This was him before he knew better. This was before he would be several steps ahead of his opponents.


That is the flavor of the movie. This was a flawed, green as hell, and damaged young Batman starting out. He is supposed to fuck up. He is supposed to make mistakes. He is supposed to learn and grow as a result of them. That's the point of the time and the setting.

 

[strange headache]

It honestly amazing how much context and meaning you have missed with this movie and yet still try to pretend to have some kind of expert analysis and opinion of any of its meaning.


The film takes place when Bruce has only been Batman for 2 years or so. He is a noob basically. This is not supposed to be the polished and perfected Batman who has an answer for everything we are used to seeing. This version is supposed to be inexperienced, damaged, impulsive, clumsy, and overall just not what we as an audience have ever seen before on the big screen. The scene where he met alone with Falcone and put himself at the mercy of a cold blooded killer while in an extremely emotional state should have been the glaring example of that being the case. "Adult Batman" or however you want to label the Batman we are used to seeing would never have done that. This is a neophyte "Batman". A guy that is just getting started on the road of what he will become. The movie beats us over the head with this fact. He made so many mistakes throughout the movie that it was hard to keep track.


He is emotional, distracted, clumsy, impulsive, and angry. None of this is what we the audience expect out of the usual "Batman" persona we are used to. We as an audience have been bred by comics and movies to expect a borderline perfect robot that operates on a higher level than those around him. This time we got to see what he was like at the start. A glimpse at the raw and unforged man that would eventually become the Dark Knight. So yeah the chase scene was stupid. It was reckless. It went against everything that Batman as we have historically known him to be, but this is a Batman we have never seen. It was SUPPOSED to be treated as an insane risk and a stupid move on his part. The fact it also made for a huge spectacle and a huge action scene is irrelevant.


This scene was not just masturbatory action scenes for the sake of it. It was meant to show that Bruce at this point was tunnel-visioned into this situation. He was not thinking straight. He had his target, but no real restraints yet that his time and experience will eventually bring. He saw his guy and he wanted him right then right there. This was Batman at his emotional worst. This was him before he knew better. This was before he would be several steps ahead of his opponents.


That is the flavor of the movie. This was a flawed, green as hell, and damaged young Batman starting out. He is supposed to fuck up. He is supposed to make mistakes. He is supposed to learn and grow as a result of them. That's the point of the time and the setting.

It's really not hard to miss that he's been in the business for two year. The movie states that multiple times.

Being "a newbie" doesn't excuse his involvement in the vehicular slaughter of dozens of innocent civilians. If this his how Batman started his career, it should have never have gotten off the ground. As it stands, he should be trialed and put behind bars for reckless behavior and involuntary manslaughter.

Making mistakes, like his botched paraglider landing or staring at the bomb, is fine. Being indirectly responsible for the killing of civilians, is not. That is not just a "rookie mistake".

They just wanted that scene in there for the spectacle, that's it.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Being "a newbie" doesn't excuse his involvement in the vehicular slaughter of dozens of innocent civilians. If this his how Batman started his career, it should have never have gotten off the ground. As it stands, he should be trialed and put behind bars for reckless behavior and involuntary manslaughter.

Captain America threw Nazi's out of a plane to their deaths, Ironman bodied I don't even know how many middle east terrorists without proper jurisdiction, and I watched Wonder Woman kill multiple guys in WW1 with her bare hands despite not being officially on either side.


Do you treat every Comic Book movie with this level of real world scrutiny? If so then I strongly suggest you find a hobby my friend.


Jesus Christ lol

 

[strange headache]

Do you treat every Comic Book movie with this level of real world scrutiny? If so then I strongly suggest you find a hobby my friend.

You were the one trying to lecture me about the narrative depth of that movie.
So which on is it? I guess it wholly depends on what strenuous argument you are trying to construct.

Suspension of disbelief only goes so far. If the movie doesn't want to be scrutinized as a popcorn flick, maybe it shouldn't include heavy handed social commentary. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

[Nobody_Important]

You were the one trying to lecture me about the narrative depth of that movie.
So which on is it? I guess it wholly depends on what strenuous argument you are trying to construct.

Suspension of disbelief only goes so far. If the movie doesn't want to be scrutinized as a popcorn flick, maybe it shouldn't include heavy handed social commentary. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

You keep missing the point.

It was SUPPOSED to be messy. It was SUPPOSED to show that he was not doing it the right way. It's not about him being seen as clean and upstanding when it was over. Jesus fucking Christ.

 

[strange headache]

You keep missing the point.

It was SUPPOSED to be messy. It was SUPPOSED to show that he was not doing it the right way. It's not about him being seen as clean and upstanding when it was over. Jesus fucking Christ.

And you keep missing the point that killing innocent civilians in a massive car chase is far beyond a mere rookie mistake.

Making mistakes and harming civilian life are definitely not in the same league, unless the movie wants to turn Batman into an outright villain. It only makes his "no guns" line even more nonsensical. Dude just cause a massive deadly highway crash, but lectures Gordon for pulling out his gun. Totally ridiculous.

 

[Nobody_Important]

And you keep missing the point that killing innocent civilians in a massive car chase is far beyond a mere rookie mistake.
Making mistakes and harming civilian life are definitely not in the same league, unless the movie wants to turn Batman into an outright villain.

A mistake is a mistake. The movie is meant to show that this Batman makes them and does it often.

I am not excusing what he did. I am explaining it.

 

[strange headache]

A mistake is a mistake. The movie is meant to show that this Batman makes them and does it often.

I am not excusing what he did. I am explaining it.

Your explanation makes no sense.
Making mistakes and being totally inept are two very different things. I find it highly troubling that people try to justify Batman killing civilians in a car chase as a mere "amateurish mistake".

People died, but noobie Batman did an oopsie, so it's totally fine...

Whole articles are criticizing that scene for being inconsistent with the movie, but they must all be huffing the magic dragon since Nobody_Important says differently.

 

[thefool]

Not only does the chase scene not a make a lick of sense (both visually and in context of the actions in the film), but after that absolute moronic riddle they forget they caught the Penguin in a deal with a dead body in the car trunk.

Its the sort of film that if you start dissecting it like an onion, its somewhat nonsensical. The Riddler and Batman parallelism is an interesting foundation until the villain ditches his own ideals and starts inflicting his vengeance on innocents and, to make things worse, decides to launch a mass attack on everyone in a schlocky 3rd act. When that guy shouts he's vengeance while trying to inflict a moronic attack on innocent bystanders, the juxtaposition with Batman's own mantra is flat-out absurd. It's the martha moment. A ludicrous catharsis.

I rather keep to myself the moody display Reeves created than overthink its narrative shortcoming.

 

[Rentahamster]

If the movie doesn't want to be scrutinized as a popcorn flick, maybe it shouldn't include heavy handed social commentary. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

These aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[Hardensoul]

Isn't that the point though? Batman was too caught up in Catwoman's and his own drama to pay enough attention to the Riddler and his tricks.

I mean, the entire highway chase with dozens of cars destroyed and god knows how many people injured is all caused by a translation error because Batman failed to doublecheck this one simple thing.

He's kinda sloppy. But, again, that's kinda the point. it's only his second year, he's still getting in the groove [aside from beating random criminals to a pulp, I suppose].

Then the movie failed to convey this, especially when Gordon is already using the Bat signal. I thought when Gordon started using the Bat signal it was a sign that Batman is competent and earned the trust to do the right things.

No I don’t follow that notion he’s in his rookie phase and prone to make sloppy mistakes. Batman is making mistakes that puts civilians in danger and caused civilian deaths.

I would not trust him and use the Bat signal to call for his help.

 

[Keihart]

Then the movie failed to convey this, especially when Gordon is already using the Bat signal. I thought when Gordon started using the Bat signal it was a sign that Batman is competent and earned the trust to do the right things.

No I don’t follow that notion he’s in his rookie phase and prone to make sloppy mistakes. Batman is making mistakes that puts civilians in danger and caused civilian deaths.

I would not trust him and use the Bat signal to call for his help.

Batman being sloppy and Gotham being a central part of the story are very much aligned with what i think are the themes of the comics that inspired it, this really feels like it's triying to mix and match concepts from Court of Owls and Zero Year.

You have batman being a dumbass on Zero Year and fighting with Alfred just like on this one and you also get the noir mistery and and story about batman figuring out what Gotham is and the Wayne legacy on City of Owls.
The ending feels very much like a mix of Zero Year with Death of the Family, they could explore the Joker origin and the rebuilding of Gotham with the ending setup.

I've never felt that Batman being sloppy and getting his shit pushed in as weird unless you are more of a fan of how Batman gets portrayed on Justice League interactions, Frank Miller's batman was just as flawed as Scott Snyder's.

 

[Hardensoul]

Eh. The joker does in The Dark Knight too, to be fair.

But there was a big payoff at the end, Batman catches the Joker and saves the 2 ferry’s from getting blown up.

Spoiler

Batman did not catch the Riddler, he gave his self up. The big heroic part when Batman jump to the electrical cable was nonsensical. He could’ve been electrocuted touching it and he cut cable above him to fall which is also stupid not knowing his landing spot. Could be bad debris in the water. He could cut below his grip.

But all that didn’t need to happen if he jump to source of cable on scaffold cut it there, not put his self in danger!

The scene did not make sense.

If that was supposed to be the big payoff, it failed for me.

 

[Hardensoul]

Batman being sloppy and Gotham being a central part of the story are very much aligned with what i think are the themes of the comics that inspired it, this really feels like it's triying to mix and match concepts from Court of Owls and Zero Year.

You have batman being a dumbass on Zero Year and fighting with Alfred just like on this one and you also get the noir mistery and and story about batman figuring out what Gotham is and the Wayne legacy on City of Owls.
The ending feels very much like a mix of Zero Year with Death of the Family, they could explore the Joker origin and the rebuilding of Gotham with the ending setup.

I've never felt that Batman being sloppy and getting his shit pushed in as weird unless you are more of a fan of how Batman gets portrayed on Justice League interactions, Frank Miller's batman was just as flawed as Scott Snyder's.

I know and understand Batman is flawed, but these are huge mistakes and disregard for innocent lives. The club fight scenes, maybe they aren’t all innocent civilians but fighting the bad guys there put those civilians in harms way with all the bullets flying around!

The car chase scene with all the carnage, innocent civilians getting killed. But then

Spoiler

he just let the Penguin go after.

Does that makes sense?

 

[Hugare]

Watched it 3 times, and now I have even more criticism than before

This movie was all style, no substance

Nolan Trilogy remains untouched

 

[Xenon]

No, no. It's just woke propaganda with absolutely no nuance or subtlety at all

It's a real shame the anti-woke brigade have jumped on what is actually a very clever set-up, and a great little character moment for both Catwoman and Batman.

It's perfectly feasible to have a character make a statement about something, without immediately jumping to the conclusion that the entire movie agrees with that statement, or wants to push it as the truth. Kinda like saying Taxi Driver is 100% behind Travis Bickle's view of the world.

Yeah, it wasn't like she was trying to awaken him to a truth he could not see. Not at all.

And earlier the scene where you had a bunch of white thugs and one black guy all with their face painted in white makeup encouraging a black kid to attack an asian to earn the right to paint his face white is also not in line with any current ideology pushed in Hollywood.

Then having a mayor and cop who are the antithesis of everything bad being of a certain demographic, nothing to see here.

Spoiler

Finally you have Catwoman saving Batman man by pulling him up, because he was too weak to save himself. Yeah that made sense. I get that she had to save him, but couldn't they at least come up with a more plausible scenario. And the way it was directed was awful he was hanging there for a long time.

Really that whole last act made no sense. So the Riddler spent his time tracking down villainous people and killing them to impress Batman only to just lose it at the end and attack large portion of the city. Made no sense

But I will give it credit for the scene with the thugs because even though there were some obvious messages at least it was well done. I know that they have to include this stuff nowadays but if they could do it this well I'd be fine.

While I really enjoyed the first part and style of the film, it's not enough to day its a good movie. I can't see myself ever wanting to watch it again.

 

[funkygunther]

It’s the bat-creep! Fun movie.

 

[SlimySnake]

Joker handled the whole poor vs elite class conflict way better and they did it without excluding their audience by race. Both DeNiro and Thomas Wayne were typical example of out of touch elites portrayed as the primary antagonists and they were both white. You dont need a dumb line like rich white guys to make a point that Bruce Wayne is also rich and likely out of touch just like the rest.

I dont think its a big deal and I do think its overblown especially considering its just one line, but this is the kind of unforced error they continue to make in Hollywood. Go spend a few days in rural midwest and you will see abject poverty that has nothing to do with race. Ive lived near black ghettos and white rural areas where simply stepping out of your suburb into the city 2 miles down the road is like entering into a third world country. Joker resonated with so many because people are fed up with income equality, lack of healthcare, and just struggling day in and day out. Batman tackling this subject is a good idea on paper but it needs to be handled with a bit more care than that.

At least, its not as bad as Nolan's take on the Occupy Wallstreet movement which was far more sympathetic to the rich New Yorkers than people on the streets. Im like wtf happened to the gotham slums from the first movie lol

 

[Bragr]

Joker handled the whole poor vs elite class conflict way better and they did it without excluding their audience by race. Joker resonated with so many because people are fed up with income equality, lack of healthcare, and just struggling day in and day out.

Huh? Joker portrayed it like cartoon, it was braindead. Who the hell resonated with Joker, that's like resonating with school shooters or something.

 

[SlimySnake]

Huh? Joker portrayed it like cartoon, it was braindead. Who the hell resonated with Joker, that's like resonating with school shooters or something.

$1 billion for an arthouse movie about mental illness starring the joker.

It resonated with a lot of people. It's foolish to say it didnt.

 

[Bragr]

$1 billion for an arthouse movie about mental illness starring the joker.

It resonated with a lot of people. It's foolish to say it didnt.

It resonated with a few psychopaths and did well because joker is a popular character.

 

[nominedomine]

I liked the movie but I think the Riddler didn't work at all. It felt like he came out straight from Seven or Zodiac, it got way too heavy for a Batman movie.

With that said, I guess this is what really works for DC, really dark movies that take themselves seriously.

 

[Nobody_Important]

I liked the movie but I think the Riddler didn't work at all. It felt like he came out straight from Seven or Zodiac, it got way too heavy for a Batman movie.

With that said, I guess this is what really works for DC, really dark movies that take themselves seriously.

Which is funny because one of the reasons why the DC animated shows do so well is because they are fun little romps rather than grim dark heavy-handed stories.

 

[FunkMiller]

Which is funny because one of the reasons why the DC animated shows do so well is because they are fun little romps rather than grim dark heavy-handed stories.

DC’s problem is that it’s eternally reacting to the MCU. Every single thing they have done since 2012 is trying to either repeat the MCU’s success, or do something ‘different’ to offer what they think is an alternative. Marry that with an owning company in WB that clearly have no actual comic book fans among their ranks, and you get the ongoing shit show of reactionary decisions.

 

[Nobody_Important]

DC’s problem is that it’s eternally reacting to the MCU. Every single thing they have done since 2012 is trying to either repeat the MCU’s success, or do something ‘different’ to offer what they think is an alternative. Marry that with an owning company in WB that clearly have no actual comic book fans among their ranks, and you get the ongoing shit show of reactionary decisions.

Yep. If they actually tried to replicate the MCU or lean into their goofy animated style they would be just as successful. Instead they feel some strange desire to make "serious" comic book movies that do well, but not MCU well.


Don't get me wrong I enjoyed the hell out of The Batman. It was a cool and different take on a character that's been done many many times before.

 

[Firestartah]

This was a really good Batman movie, some of you here are really tripping, trying to find anything you can latch on to, to judge it. I hope you dont see day to day life like that, cause that must be some miserable existance if so.

I would rank it my 3rd fav Batman movie, behind The Dark Knight and ' 89 one. I really liked the mood of the city, was more neo-noir than I expected, and that part at the beggining where it shows the creeps scared by the signal and the metro fight was some of the best Batman ever.

Downsides would be: a bit too long, some of the Falcone parts could have been trimmed and I didnt feel Penguin that much.