DeathScentance
Banned
Ok and that was a pretty racially insensitive caricature of a fat Italian played by skinny irishmen. Couldn't get a fat Italian to play the role? Representation matters. Do better
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The Batman - Review Thread
- Thread starter Represent.
- Start date
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Ya. It's modern day crusading that makes it come out everywhere casually.
One of my fav cop movies is NARC. I bring it up since this Batman movie IMO is more crime/thriller than superhero movie even though there's costumes and funky Bruce Wayne gadgets. If any of you havent seen it , it's a good gritty crime thriller. It even has a big fat Ray Liotta in it! Guy looked 300 lbs. But trust me he's good in it. A no nonsense movie with zero virtue signaling.
It would sure be weird if Busta Rhymes who was getting hammered by Liotta at the end suddenly brought up white cops and social-economical race segmentation into it while being yelled at.
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DeathScentance
Banned
If that dude has never played Sonny Bono, Hollywood done messed up. Also, you're showing your age lol
OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
sol_bad
Member
The thought of sitting down at the cinemas and thinking "How many evil white guys and good POC can I count?", is really sad to me. Even thinking about this while the movie is playing is extremely sad and I feel sorry for you guys. You have probably put more thought into this than the actual film makers.
And how in the world was Bruce Wayne demonised?
And how in the world was Bruce Wayne demonised?
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
Didn't really bother me because it felt like something this version of Catwoman would say. Its a realistic piece of dialogue for a resentful young black woman. Doesn't mean the audience actually has to agree with her; even she probably doesn't really believe it considering she falls for a rich white dude lol
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
I dont think many people thought of it until she says that line near the end of the movie. Then based on that, you think about all the white and minority people in the movie.
DeathScentance
Banned
When you watch it again pay attention to what the mayor says about him, and who the Riddler tries to kill, and why.
It sucks, living in my head, knowing that 91+% of all homicides VICTIMS in NYC are black or hispanic. It sucks knowing that in San Fransisco, in 2010, a decade before COVID, "In 85 percent of the physical assault crimes, the victims were Asian and the perpetrators were African American,"
What sucks more for me is watching a film director trying to portray a realist gritty modern city, and before he shows the title character, he starts off with a bunch of mostly white kids playing the Knockout Game.
What sucks most about it, is knowing why the director can't paint an accurate picture and not even being able to talk about it. I'm going to try and stop while I'm ahead, praying for my account to not be banned for wrong
PaddyOCanager
Member
Yeah, it honestly didn't even cross my mind until the internet brought it to my attention after seeing the film. Catwoman has one "racebaiting" line......and it's fucking hilarious given who she's saying it to.
I've heard the Bruce Wayne demonizing argument too, which is a bizarre take - I didn't get that impression AT ALL. This movie simply shows a Batman who has no interest in being Bruce Wayne at the beginning of the film, but by the end he knows he needs to be more than the Batman - he comes to this conclusion ON HIS OWN. The scene where the mayor criticizes him for not doing anything is just factually accurate, and he ignores her completely at the time. She also gets fucking
shot
Yeah this movie has ID politics if you really want to see it that way, but you have to completely ignore everything else to see it that way.
Dural
Member
This isn't true at all, look at the mayors of the ten largest cities in the US. Majority are POC and the top 4 are all POC. I bet if you look at police chief for each it would also lean heavily toward POC in those cities.
edit-The FBI most wanted list for organized crime would also disagree with you.
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SafeOrAlone
Banned
The hero of the story is a white guy.
He went through an arc and came out better on the other side.
He is the coolest, most glorified character in the film. We all want to be him. He is whiter than a mime.
He went through an arc and came out better on the other side.
He is the coolest, most glorified character in the film. We all want to be him. He is whiter than a mime.
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Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
I finally got around to watching the trailer after seeing the movie. It's a good thing I avoided it because holy shit that was spoilery as fuck.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
But... They're ALWAYS white! In the comics and all the movies except the one guy (Michael Jai White) in TDK. Otherwise, all the bad people in Batman movies are white. It wasn't a problem then... But it's a problem now?
DeathScentance
Banned
Ok, and all the good guys used to be white too, everyone was white. Now if you're going to add diversity inclusion and representation, and answer honestly... do you think it should be done accurately or to virtue signal? Because this film shows that can POC can do no wrong in the grittiest city imaginable. Just white punks on the subway, just white fringe lunatics from the internet. Does that feel realistic to you?
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
I havent seen all Batman tv shows and movies. And I've never read a Batman comic, so I'm not sure what kind of racial split there is in all Batman content, but if they are suddenly going to have Black people play more roles, then nothing wrong with adding some minority villains to go along with the minority good guys.
The movie even has Catwoman saying her white privilege one liner like it's something you'd read on Twitter.
How can you not notice the racial slant they did in this movie between the white and minority actors, roles, and dialogue they said?
PaddyOCanager
Member
The mob has always been portrayed as Italian - and the Italian mob doesn't appoint mayors, DAs, etc that are black, Asian or whatever. Why is this even a discussion?
As far as the gang in the beginning....they're all in full makeup except for the "good guy" who is dark complexion so it can contrast with the makeup and be symbolic. It's a cool visual, not insidious race bait.
Catwoman makes those comments, but she risked her friend's life for money and is literally talking about white privilege to the very persona someone like her would think is white privilege. In the end, she chooses
Batman takes a back seat to NO ONE in this film. His transformation is his own journey, he doesn't adopt anyone else's ideals. Catwoman tries, and he's like nah bitch. People are seeing shit that isn't there.
As far as the gang in the beginning....they're all in full makeup except for the "good guy" who is dark complexion so it can contrast with the makeup and be symbolic. It's a cool visual, not insidious race bait.
Catwoman makes those comments, but she risked her friend's life for money and is literally talking about white privilege to the very persona someone like her would think is white privilege. In the end, she chooses
to abandon the city!
Batman takes a back seat to NO ONE in this film. His transformation is his own journey, he doesn't adopt anyone else's ideals. Catwoman tries, and he's like nah bitch. People are seeing shit that isn't there.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
I have no problem with race bending some of the villains. But then you run into superfans who will moan and cry that such and such' villain is supposed to be white ... "Why are you race bending my super villains?!"
I think Mr. Freeze could work as a POC... Same for someone like Firefly (even though he's being done by Brendan Frasier in the DCEU)... Shoot... Make Calendar Man or Mad Hatter a POC... BUT Joker should still be white, same as Riddler... Poison Ivy... Harley Quinn... Because their back stories make sense for who they are and how they're treated in the comics and in a realistic society. I had no problem with the mob boss being black in TDK (MJW is criminally underused in movies).
And I didn't notice the racial slant in the movie because I wasn't focused on the race of everyone in the movie. The story was my focus. I enjoyed it IMMENSELY just like I enjoyed the Keaton Batman movies and the Bale Batman movies as well as the Christopher Reeve Superman movies ... All of them were 95% white. I had no problems. But I do like representation.
I think many POC have a problem with having black or other POC being villains or bad guys in movies because they were traditionally gang members and bad guys in movies and almost always portrayed in a negative light. So that could be a negative with a POC villain if not done well. Like how Loki is a villain the audience cares for. Same with Thanos or Killmonger. Do it well, people will love it!
ResilientBanana
Member
Falcone and Marchetti are very italian names. Whereas Gambol on the other hand is not. It shouldn't matter however.
The hate on the movie's length, I'll never understand, I appreciate that some scenes were longer and like the fact that nothing was rushed. While some might not have enjoyed it, I felt this was the almost perfect Batman movie.
While Heath's joker will go down in the record books, the Dark Knight series made Batman a meme with his horrid growling voice and a mask that made him sound sound like he was wearing pool goggles and wasn't interesting in the slightest. Heath's Joker was great, Joaquin's was also great, each for there own merit. But I cannot get fully behind the Dark Knight series because Batman wasn't a great character and took a back seat to the villains. The Batman on the other hand was very well rounded and both the villain and Batman shined.
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DeepBreath87
Banned
I’m not sure why we have to go down this rabbit hole. I didn’t even consider race in this movie except that they brought it up explicitly with the “rich, white, assholes” line or whatever. I didn’t really think about Gordon being black because I thought the actor did a fine job in the role. The mayor was black but she’s barely in the movie. Same with the punks in the subway.
You can see that maybe they did a “white people are bad” thing, but Batman is white and he’s the hero, so I don’t think it works. I think the larger point is if the movie doesn’t go out of its way to mention race, we aren’t even having this discussion, which is why they should’ve avoided it.
You can see that maybe they did a “white people are bad” thing, but Batman is white and he’s the hero, so I don’t think it works. I think the larger point is if the movie doesn’t go out of its way to mention race, we aren’t even having this discussion, which is why they should’ve avoided it.
PaddyOCanager
Member
I would've liked to see about 15-20 minutes trimmed. Not like, whole scenes or anything - just pacing edits to maintain a higher level of tension.
DeathScentance
Banned
Let me answer that question with a question. If the movie presented a more realistic portrayal of violence and victims, a gang of blacks and hispanics attacking a asian guy, would there have been a discussion about it? On twitter? On ResetEra? In the critics reviews?
If not, if showing it realistically would have been hunky dory, why spin a false narrative in a movie that's otherwise told pretty realistically?
The honest answer is, you know for a fucking fact they COULD NOT have shot that shit straight. If you've been paying attention, you'd know why too.
Sources so I'm not blasted for racism:
PaddyOCanager
Member
The mob in Gotham is modeled off the real world mob and people think Italian mobsters are cool.
This is not the same as portraying some low level, irrelevant fictional street gang that Batman beats the shit out of - there's no reason to be based off real world demographics or whatever the fuck you think is fair statistically. The image of the black man in America has been unfairly portrayed my entire life. And they went so far in this movie to have a black man have violence towards an Asian man put right in his face.
Anyway, I'm done talking about race in this movie - its such a dumb diversion, which was my point in the first place. We have a good Batman film and a solid foundation for future films that I'm really looking forward to.
KingGhidorah
Banned
128 million first weekend, isn't this under performing considering what Spiderman just did??
DeathScentance
Banned
Representation matters, as long as it's represented the way I want it to be. Do it realistically, and you can fuck right off. Gotcha.
Like I said, I wish I still had rose tinted glasses. I hope yours stay on bud.
Also my Italian wife's family (no Italians I know really) think being lumped in with mobsters is cool. But it's OK to paint a racially insensitive picture of a group of people, as long as they're white, right?
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Exactly.
If media wants to get away from realistic demographics, then fine go ahead but at least dont cherry pick.
For example, people here are saying it's fine to have Italian mobs and CEOs being privileged white guys (which seems to correlate pretty true in real life), but then bring up how all the minority characters in the movie are good guys and all the bad guys are white and that goes against realistic portrayal. So make up you mind.
Even the clubs in the movie with tons of people working there and bouncers I didn't see one Black guy acting as a thuggish brute. Now if it's a fictitious movie, then add some minorities to the gangster club since demographics dont matter.
This is a reboot coming off a god-awful DCEU Batman and the other is a third film of a trilogy (possibly more) which brings in
all previous Spidermans together
Yeah, it's TOTALLY under performing.
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PaddyOCanager
Member
I mean, it's the second best opening in the pandemic era. Did anyone really expect this to beat Spiderman? Spiderman is riding off the very successful MCEU/previous entries. Plus it has the nostalgia.....
The Batman is riding on......The Batman.
DeathScentance
Banned
Plenty of families in the theater for Spider-Man not so many at this one.
KingGhidorah
Banned
Spiderman came out after MCU The Eternal massive flop
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Googling it, Batman was expected to make $100-125M. If it's at $128M, it outperformed.
TaylorSwiftFan
Member
People wouldn’t have paid attention but single lines can take people out of movies. I think it’s even more odd that you completely fail to notice the pattern in the movie.
TaylorSwiftFan
Member
You wouldn’t have any problem with them racebending Batman either.
TaylorSwiftFan
Member
Ok, yes, I remember. So the CEOs of Microsoft and Google are safe?
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
It's such a bullshit line. It's almost like Matt Reeves was trying to outdo Rian Johnson. It doesnt belong in the movie. Plain and simple.
A couple of my indian friends were boasting about how the new Twitter CEO is indian and how Google, Microsoft, IBM and Adobe are all Indian. AMD and Nvidia CEOs are Asian and literally from the same family. Both of them are raping PC gamers right now by allowing sales of their GPUs at exorbitant prices. In fact, I just googled and 30% of all Fortune 500 CEOs are Indian.
I like that a movie like Batman and 2019's Joker are tackling the rich vs poor problem in comic book movies, but making it a white vs black thing is a big mistake. 8% of the Fortune 500 CEOs are women. Why isnt Catwoman calling out other women?
These idiots dont get that preaching and pandering lines like that hurts the cause and dilutes the message.
A couple of my indian friends were boasting about how the new Twitter CEO is indian and how Google, Microsoft, IBM and Adobe are all Indian. AMD and Nvidia CEOs are Asian and literally from the same family. Both of them are raping PC gamers right now by allowing sales of their GPUs at exorbitant prices. In fact, I just googled and 30% of all Fortune 500 CEOs are Indian.
I like that a movie like Batman and 2019's Joker are tackling the rich vs poor problem in comic book movies, but making it a white vs black thing is a big mistake. 8% of the Fortune 500 CEOs are women. Why isnt Catwoman calling out other women?
These idiots dont get that preaching and pandering lines like that hurts the cause and dilutes the message.
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FunkMiller
Member
Fucking hell, lads. Some of you need to get out more. It’s one line in a three hour movie. The main character and the hero of the story is a rich, white bloke.
Stop looking for offence in everything.
Stop looking for offence in everything.
KingGhidorah
Banned
Would it be fine if a movie line includes 40% of prison population is black when overall black population is less than 15%??? Or majority of violent criminals are committed by black??…..I can’t imagine people saying that line anywhere in media nowadays
It’s the hypocrisy, the double standard that I cannot stand more than anything …..demonize white men while putting poc on pedestal. That’s fucking racist
MacReady13
Member
Saw it Sunday night with the wife. Absolutely adored it! Perfectly captures Gotham city. I loved Batman in this film. The darkness of the city is creepy. The way it replicates a film like Se7en is fantastic! The score is sublime. I enjoyed the Nolan films without thinking they're the greatest films ever made. This beats those films quite easily. I'm content in saying it's the best Batman film I've seen and might even go so far as to say it's the best superhero film I've ever seen! I really did love every aspect of it.
DeathScentance
Banned
Batman responds to catwoman with:
Did you know that 90% of the violent crime in the city is committed by black and Hispanic people?"
The internet would explode. But I'm sure this guy we be like.
Jeez you guys it's just one line in a 3 hour movie, right?
SafeOrAlone
Banned
I’m going to enjoy this much more when I can just pause it and go on a walk, or grab a snack.
I still think the film could be paced better, but that makes all the difference for me in terms on enjoyment.
It’s almost impossible to truly enjoy something when you are fighting off a growling stomach, taking a piss, just being uncomfortable.
For my second viewing, I took a little intermission, walked out of the theater into the sunshine, and smoked a little joint before going back in. I was able to enjoy the second half a bit more than I did on the first viewing , just from being a little refreshed.
I still think the film could be paced better, but that makes all the difference for me in terms on enjoyment.
It’s almost impossible to truly enjoy something when you are fighting off a growling stomach, taking a piss, just being uncomfortable.
For my second viewing, I took a little intermission, walked out of the theater into the sunshine, and smoked a little joint before going back in. I was able to enjoy the second half a bit more than I did on the first viewing , just from being a little refreshed.
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Yep, completely agree.
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arkhamguy123
Banned
.... How would a movie line even include this? What?
arkhamguy123
Banned
Matt Reeves: Gives us 2 hours and 45 minutes of layered content ripe for discussion
*last 2 pages*
*back and fourth over approximately 3 seconds of running time*
DeathScentance
Banned
Catwaahman: Let's take down white privileged CEOs
Baitman: Did you know 90% of violent crime victims in the city are black or hispanic?
Catwaahman: Then we need to destroy white supremacy!
Baitman:
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Ok... I think we need to move on before this thread is closed and locked, y'all. Did you like the movie or not? Sheesh!
Badlucktroll
Member
Too bad we only got 2 Tim Burton/Michael Keaton Batman Movies. Fuckin warner brothers. Should have been a trilogy. We would have had Robin Williams riddler and Tim Burton going even more off the rails than Batman Returns.
TaylorSwiftFan
Member
It was a good movie. But I cannot help but feel a little bit disappointed by it. There are so many things to like but there should have been more set pieces while trimming the fat elsewhere. The last act was way too slow. The Dark Knight and Batman Begins are still the two best. But overall, I loved the portrayal of Batman, not so much Bruce Wayne. The acting all over was very good. The last to me went by without a payoff. The mystery or twist is not deep enough to have any impact at all. I also think that the riddler’s games should have gone even further.
I will watch clips of the movies on youtube but I won’t watch the whole movie again.
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