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[Gordon Shumway]

Mad World - Vintage Vaudeville - Style Cover ft. Puddles Pity Party & Haley Reinhart



Not a reflection on this group, but as I was in the process of linking this, I had a tiny deflating moment when I realized that this song would be immediately recognizable on this forum simple because of games marketing and not for the Tears For Fears version.

Well..that went a little different than what I was expecting. Tears For Fears is my preferred version. Donnie Darko version when I want to feel depressed..

 

[lightskintwin]

And I'm responding to your statement about self hate and you ignoring that what you are saying is pretty offensive in that special kind of mans-plaining kind of way. The majority of women in your life may know you like that. Nobody here knows you like that, and you aren't awarded special treatment for being offensive for the sake of being you. It was free advice. Take it or leave it, but don't act like you don't deserve it.

LOL @ mansplaning. You've got to be the first person I've ever spoke in decades turn this into a sexist issue. Hilarious.

 

[D i Z]

LOL @ mansplaning. You've got to be the first person I've ever spoke in decades turn this into a sexist issue. Hilarious.

When you straight up tell women your opinion on issues pertinent to them almost exclusively, all the while shaming their choices with terms like "self hate" simply because you don't agree with those choices.
Yeah.
Self hate is an incredibly powerful term to be throwing around, and says more about your respect level and understanding than the topic itself.

My first response was a pretty jokey one to be fair.
Like I said. Free advice. This isn't a boys club.

Well..that went a little different than what I was expecting. Tears For Fears is my preferred version. Donnie Darko version when I want to feel depressed..

Yeah. Caught me a little by surprise as well. Probably because I didn't really expect there to be more that could be done with it than what we've been bombarded with already.

 

[ishibear]

That's a horrible analogy. Just because it's been normalized in black communities and people continue to perpetuate it without thinking about it, doesn't mean the self hate still isn't there. How many straight haired people fund a billion dollar industry to put your type of textured hair in theirs. Oh wait, it doesn't exist.

However I don't want this to be me railing against black women, just my personal opinion on the subject which most of ya'll obviously disagree. The majority of Black women in my life know this about me, some agree, some don't.

No one denies that self hate exists jfc

It isn't so simple to associate the fascination with hair with oppression so easily without also trampling on our right to wear our hair how we please. There's self hate fueled hair care and there's hair care because we want to. Whether it's rooted in oppression is possible, but is there a freedom that comes with expression? Yes. It's a battle against oppression while exercising oppression and that's why I don't like the hair policing.

Does this make sense?

 

[lightskintwin]

When you straight up tell women your opinion on issues pertinent to them almost exclusively, all the while shaming their choices with terms like "self hate" simply because you don't agree with them. Yeah. Self hate is an incredibly powerful term to be throwing around, and says more about your respect level and understanding than the topic itself.

Like I said. Free advice. This isn't a boys club.

LOL Man, you're making this more than what it was. It was an opinion in general, not some specific attack on women. The hilarious part about this is you're acting as if my opinion is somehow controversial when it's been discussed and debated in African American communities, cultural studies, and leaders for decades.

 

[KumaJG]

Hai friends

 

[FeenixRising]

The guy who stole on Dylan Roof made bail.

This is a good day.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Dudes be buggin. Black women get flak for straightening their hair, for going natural, for wearing weave, for cutting it off.

It ain't that deep, let them wear what they want.

 

[The Faceless Master]

i've actually talked to a few women about that very thing and some just straight up said that weave is just easier and faster to manage daily than natural hair.

 

[D i Z]

LOL Man, you're making this more than what it was. It was an opinion in general, not some specific attack on women. The hilarious part about this is you're acting as if my opinion is somehow controversial when it's been discussed and debated in African American communities, cultural studies, and leaders for decades.

Actually, I'm not making it more than what it is. I'm responding directly to your own words. And I'm questioning them. Nothing it being taken out of context, and nothing being inflated.
This might not be the conversation that you wanted about this subject, but it is just as much a part of it. And we're here now, so lets chop it up!

I don't think your opinion is controversial at all either. I'm just waiting for the point in the conversation where you do actually bring something edifying and unique to a discussion that's been generation old already (and has evolved beyond those concerns for quite a few younger people worldwide) besides the trite and tired "self hate" rap.


-------
Sup KumaJG.

 

[FeenixRising]

Dudes be buggin. Black women get flak for straightening their hair, for going natural, for wearing weave, for cutting it off.

It ain't that deep, let them wear what they want.

They really can't do shit, just look at that cesspool Coli TLR

Natural: bedwench that only messes with white dudes

Straightened: coon that's ashamed of her African features

Cut off: unattractive , too lazy to take care of her hair.


Black women just can't win.

 

[Angelus Errare]

They really can't do shit, just look at that cesspool Coli TLR

Natural: bedwench that only messes with white dudes

Straightened: coon that's ashamed of her African features

Cut off: unattractive , too lazy to take care of her hair.


Black women just can't win.

Shit wack as fuck. Like society ain't even gotta tear down black women, niggas do it for free.

 

[Alligatorjandro]

Humans are the worst animal

 

[ishibear]

Hai friends

Hey Kuma!

Dudes be buggin. Black women get flak for straightening their hair, for going natural, for wearing weave, for cutting it off.

It ain't that deep, let them wear what they want.

They really can't do shit, just look at that cesspool Coli TLR

Natural: bedwench that only messes with white dudes

Straightened: coon that's ashamed of her African features

Cut off: unattractive , too lazy to take care of her hair.


Black women just can't win.

i've actually talked to a few women about that very thing and some just straight up said that weave is just easier and faster to manage daily than natural hair.

Bless ya'll. Thank you for understanding. We can't do shit without being criticized.

 

[lightskintwin]

No one denies that self hate exists jfc

It isn't so simple to associate the fascination with hair with oppression so easily without also trampling on our right to wear our hair how we please. There's self hate fueled hair care and there's hair care because we want to. Whether it's rooted in oppression is possible, but is there a freedom that comes with expression? Yes. It's a battle against oppression while exercising oppression and that's why I don't like the hair policing.

Does this make sense?

No it doesn't make sense because we already know the root of it and it's impact and influence. Whether one actively chooses as a willful act of expression doesn't divorce it from that reality.

Let's compare it to self whitening cream or bleaching. If this became popular amongst African American communities would you even be debating with me the "right to wear your skin how we please, there's a freedom that comes with expression, and skin policing."?

Now what's the difference between skin bleaching and weaves? If you ask me: nothing, one's merely more accepted than the other, but both are cosmetic/ beauty products used by people of color to conform to mainstream eurocentric standards of beauty.

Dudes be buggin. Black women get flak for straightening their hair, for going natural, for wearing weave, for cutting it off.

It ain't that deep, let them wear what they want.

Quit taking it as an attack on Black Women. You're acting as if this discussion didn't occur with Black Men for decades starting with the popular conk hairstyle of early 20th centuries.

Many African American studies scholars, and Malcolm X, a conk enthusiast in his youth, have held that the conk represents a darker motif of the African American community as well; the degradation of self in favor of "white" traits. The notion that a straighter hair is superior, and the lengths African Americans went through to attain it, elucidates an issue that was endemic as the black community struggled to gain a foothold in mainstream America. In the biography of Malcolm X, it is mentioned that at one point the prevalence of the conk hairstyle, “makes you wonder if the Negro has completely lost all sense of identity, lost touch with himself”.

It then manifested itself with the Jeri Curl and S curl, and now it's all been weeded out in popularity.

 

[ishibear]

No it doesn't make sense because we already know the root of it and it's impact and influence. Whether one actively chooses as a willful act of expression doesn't divorce it from that reality.

Let's compare it to self whitening cream or bleaching. If this became popular amongst African American communities would you even be debating with me the "right to wear your skin how we please, there's a freedom that comes with expression, and skin policing."?

Now what's the difference between skin bleaching and weaves? If you ask me: nothing, one's merely more accepted than the other, but both are cosmetic/ beauty products used by people of color to conform to mainstream eurocentric standards of beauty.



Quit taking it as an attack on Black Women. You're acting as if this discussion didn't occur with Black Men for decades starting with the popular conk hairstyle of early 20th centuries.

It then manifested itself with the Jeri Curl and S curl, and now it's all been weeded out in popularity.

If you seriously cannot see how your stance is oppressive to Black women I don't know what to tell you anymore. Lots of things are rooted in oppression and even sexism. At some point exercising free will needs to be separated from perpetuating a racist/sexist agenda.

 

[Htown]

Humans are the worst animal

Too easy.

 

[FeenixRising]

Too easy.

I said the same thing to myself, I mean after years of being used as transportation for the human race Jandro is about to go full militant. Do they sell horse dashikis?

 

[Professor Beef]

I said the same thing to myself, I mean after years of being used as transportation for the human race Jandro is about to go full militant. Do they sell horse dashikis?

Closest I could find

 

[Mizerman]

Humans are the worst animal

 

[Sch1sm]

Let's compare it to self whitening cream or bleaching. If this became popular amongst African American communities would you even be debating with me the "right to wear your skin how we please, there's a freedom that comes with expression, and skin policing."?

How are they comparable? Hair is gonna go back to its state, it's still there beneath that weave. Relax it, straighten it, texturize it, dip it in hydrogen peroxide, and it'll still go right back to where it was. How you gonna unbleach your skin?

Hai friends

Yo, Kuma!

 

[Confusion Illusion]

You guys should stop picking on Jandro. I'm sure being confined to a stable all day might why he's a bit miserable.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

Shit wack as fuck. Like society ain't even gotta tear down black women, niggas do it for free.

word

 

[The Faceless Master]

Fried Chicken and Grits with Crystal Pepsi?

Today is a good day.

 

[lightskintwin]

Actually, I'm not making it more than what it is. I'm responding directly to your own words. And I'm questioning them. Nothing it being taken out of context, and nothing being inflated.
This might not be the conversation that you wanted about this subject, but it is just as much a part of it. And we're here now, so lets chop it up!

I don't think your opinion is controversial at all either. I'm just waiting for the point in the conversation where you do actually bring something edifying and unique to a discussion that's been generation old already (and has evolved beyond those concerns for quite a few younger people worldwide) besides the trite and tired "self hate" rap.


-------
Sup KumaJG.

LOL Cool. Bring it. ;-p The point still stands it is "self hate" whether you view it as trite and tired argument. That's like dismissing a "systemic racism" argument because it's trite and tired and you need to actually bring something "edifying and unique".

i've actually talked to a few women about that very thing and some just straight up said that weave is just easier and faster to manage daily than natural hair.

I've heard the same reasons as well. Does ease and efficiency exempt it from criticism? And that's not even going into the expense and maintenance of it.

They really can't do shit, just look at that cesspool Coli TLR

Natural: bedwench that only messes with white dudes

Straightened: coon that's ashamed of her African features

Cut off: unattractive , too lazy to take care of her hair.


Black women just can't win.

Good thing this isn't the Coli and a discussion amongst mature, intelligent adults.

Shit wack as fuck. Like society ain't even gotta tear down black women, niggas do it for free.

Are you associating my opinion with tearing down black women? It's a specific criticism towards a certain female hair practice in African American communities. If I made a specific criticism towards a certain male hair practice such as the conk, Jeri Curl, S curl, etc... rather than disagreeing would you associate it with tearing down black men?

If you seriously cannot see how your stance is oppressive to Black women I don't know what to tell you anymore. Lots of things are rooted in oppression and even sexism. At some point exercising free will needs to be separated from perpetuating a racist/sexist agenda.

From an intellectual standpoint, you're using terms such as oppressive, racism, sexism to shield you from criticism, rather than actually engage if there's actual truth in the criticism.

How would you respond if a straight, white, man responded "at some point exercising free will needs to be separated from perpetuating a racist/sexist agenda"

How are they comparable? Hair is gonna go back to its state, it's still there beneath that weave. Relax it, straighten it, texturize it, dip it in hydrogen peroxide, and it'll still go right back to where it was. How you gonna unbleach your skin?

The intent is the same.

 

[D i Z]

US women's soccer team didn't come to disappoint.
Have got new found respect for Archery.
Both Women's Rugby and Table Tennis were off the chain today.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Compare weave to permanent skin bleaching bruhs.

 

[The Faceless Master]

No it doesn't make sense because we already know the root of it and it's impact and influence. Whether one actively chooses as a willful act of expression doesn't divorce it from that reality.

Let's compare it to self whitening cream or bleaching. If this became popular amongst African American communities would you even be debating with me the "right to wear your skin how we please, there's a freedom that comes with expression, and skin policing."?

Now what's the difference between skin bleaching and weaves? If you ask me: nothing, one's merely more accepted than the other, but both are cosmetic/ beauty products used by people of color to conform to mainstream eurocentric standards of beauty.

Vybz Kartel still da GOAT even in jail and bleached.

 

[Sou Da]

How do I use this BCT event to put dark skin dudes ahead?

 

[FeenixRising]

Vybz Kartel still da GOAT even in jail and bleached.

I was never a Vybz fan, and his obsession with cake soap pretty much cemented that.

How do I use this BCT event to put dark skin dudes ahead?

Y'all been winning for a while, Drake did light skinned dudes no favors. Look at Harson.

 

[Sou Da]

I was never a Vybz fan, and his obsession with cake soap pretty much cemented that.




Y'all been winning for a while, Drake did light skinned dudes no favors. Look at Harson.

Y'all still listening to his nth level corny ass albums.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

Both love the Olympics and hate them. Hate the money, the forced nature of it, and i don't want it in the us until they get their shit together and cut down on costs.

But love the competition. Bitter pill.

 

[lightskintwin]

How do I use this BCT event to put dark skin dudes ahead?

Colorism is a whole 'nother issue in our communities.

Don't let me get started on that. LOL

 

[Angelus Errare]

Are you associating my opinion with tearing down black women?

Yes.

It's a specific criticism towards a certain female hair practice in African American communities. If I made a specific criticism towards a certain male hair practice such as the conk, Jeri Curl, S curl, etc... rather than disagreeing would you associate it with tearing down black men?

Depends, you gonna extend it to the brush cut or nah? One can argue the only reason we get brush cuts is to be accepted in white corporate America and because it's easier to maintain than an afro. You can rebuttal with "I just look better with a brush cut" but is that you talking or your social conditioning? Such a slippery slope.

If you want to take it a step further in various African tribes, the men cut their hair for symbolic/spiritual reasons what symbolic/spiritual reason did you cut yours? Other tribes (like the Himba of Namibia) growing your hair out into locks and adorning them with beads/clay is something both men and women do .

Lastly, why do dudes care so much about what women do to their hair? Like that shit always cracks me up. Dudes always be thinkin they these deep philosophical mfs when it comes to their perceived "plight" of women.

 

[Angelus Errare]

I was never a Vybz fan, and his obsession with cake soap pretty much cemented that.

What about what's her face, the one who also promoted cake soap? She went from dark skin to lookin like she dragged the "desaturate" slider to -99

Y'all been winning for a while, Drake did light skinned dudes no favors. Look at Harson.

For a while? Since the 90s really.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Hai friends

What's the good word, Kuma..

The guy who stole on Dylan Roof made bail.

This is a good day.

Humans are the worst animal

smh..

Too easy.

Seriously..

I said the same thing to myself, I mean after years of being used as transportation for the human race Jandro is about to go full militant. Do they sell horse dashikis?

Closest I could find

How do I use this BCT event to put dark skin dudes ahead?

lol..

 

[Sch1sm]

Compare weave to permanent skin bleaching bruhs.

Didn't you hear, b?

The intent is the same.

That's assuming that every single woman out there that buys into weave hates themselves, which simply isn't true. Regardless of where it's rooted, and it not being "divorced" from that meaning as you keep saying, at this point you're just stuck on thinking on how much they gotta hate each other to wear weave. You're not looking to how it's convenient, how it's expressive, the positives at all. Nah, they just all hate their natural hair and hide behind weave because the Euro standard is so pretty.

At this point you seem to be refusing to look at the alternatives to self hate simply because of where it's rooted, so I'm bailing on this useless debate.

Just remember that negatives in history are often reclaimed by the oppressed group and used positively amongst them.

Y'all been winning for a while, Drake did light skinned dudes no favors. Look at Harson.

Harson's been catching the shit end for a while, quite literally.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Suicide Squad is trash. WW is our only hope.

 

[FeenixRising]

What about what's her face, the one who also promoted cake soap? She went from dark skin to lookin like she dragged the "desaturate" slider to -99

I'm trying to remember who you're talking about. Is she like West African or something? I forgot

For a while? Since the 90s really.

Malik Yoba put on for dark skinned folks after Al B. Sure and the light skin revolution got derailed.

 

[cdyhybrid]

Both love the Olympics and hate them. Hate the money, the forced nature of it, and i don't want it in the us until they get their shit together and cut down on costs.

But love the competition. Bitter pill.

I just like watching our basketball team. Like if the All-Star teams actually played defense.

 

[The Faceless Master]

I've heard the same reasons as well. Does ease and efficiency exempt it from criticism? And that's not even going into the expense and maintenance of it.

What about naming kids 'Sarah' or 'Andrew'?
What about getting glasses instead of contacts?
What about taking your license and registration and putting them on the dashboard in plain sight while the cop walks towards your vehicle?

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Harson's been catching the shit end for a while, quite literally.

 

[lightskintwin]

Yes.

It's not. I wouldn't even have that big an issue with weaves if it wasn't so popular. Hell, I might even feel a bit (very slightly) different if this billion dollar industry itself was primarily black owned.

Lastly, why do dudes care so much about what women do to their hair? Like that shit always cracks me up. Dudes always be thinkin they these deep philosophical mfs when it comes to their perceived "plight" of women.

You're assuming my criticism is only about women since I expressed an opinion on weaves. It's not that I care about what they do to their hair, I care about the impact Africans Americans have towards other black communities around the world and their effect on their beauty standards.. We're that influential. The main reason why though is I think it looks ridiculous, especially when we can reclaim and reshape our own beauty standards rather than conforming to theirs.

 

[Numb]

Harson's been catching the shit end for a while, quite literally.

oh Jesus

 

[Mizerman]

Harson's been catching the shit end for a while, quite literally.

Oh lawd.

 

[The Faceless Master]

I was never a Vybz fan, and his obsession with cake soap pretty much cemented that.

His latest album is so good.

 

[Angelus Errare]

I'm trying to remember who you're talking about. Is she like West African or something? I forgot

Dencia is her name. She legit looks like someone was in photoshop and just painted her white. She has a skin bleaching line called...wait for it...whitenicious. Damn shame about her.

Malik Yoba put on for dark skinned folks after Al B. Sure and the light skin revolution got derailed.

NY Undercover was the shit, I was only like 7 but I remember the saxophone theme anywhere. Torres' pops was like always strung out on some drug.

 

[lightskintwin]

That's assuming that every single woman out there that buys into weave hates themselves, which simply isn't true. Regardless of where it's rooted, and it not being "divorced" from that meaning as you keep saying, at this point you're just stuck on thinking on how much they gotta hate each other to wear weave. You're not looking to how it's convenient, how it's expressive, the positives at all. Nah, they just all hate their natural hair and hide behind weave because the Euro standard is so pretty.

At this point you seem to be refusing to look at the alternatives to self hate simply because of where it's rooted, so I'm bailing on this useless debate.

Just remember that negatives in history are often reclaimed by the oppressed group and used positively amongst them.

Ok, the bolded part is a very interesting argument that runs parallel to the Nigger/Nigga debate. I've thought about that, and it does have some merit given huge cultural events such as the Bronner Brothers annual Hair Shows which gives credence to the positives and expressions Ishiibear was saying.

LOL You might have actually changed my mind on it now.

What about naming kids 'Sarah' or 'Andrew'?
What about getting glasses instead of contacts?
What about taking your license and registration and putting them on the dashboard in plain sight while the cop walks towards your vehicle?

Whataboutisms. C'mon Bruh, you better than that.

 

[KumaJG]

Suicide Squad is the type of movie the more you think about it,. the more trash it becomes.

 

[lightskintwin]

Malik Yoba put on for dark skinned folks after Al B. Sure and the light skin revolution got derailed.

LOL This never happened though. You know how many times I kept hearing from black women saying light skin niggas making a comeback over the decades? When the reality is we never went out of style.