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The Black Culture Thread |OT4| Learn to love the BBC

F

FyreWulff

Member
Jest Chillin said:
I can understand the point of "casuals don't know the difference" but what about the contention that enthusiasts inform the rest of the population? I mean I would think that in every group of friends there's one or two that have their hand on the pulse of the tech differences. Once information starts moving through word of mouth, couldn't that influence the casual crowd at least to an extent?
Click to expand...

If the casual crowd cared about tech or specs they wouldn't be playing games on mobile. Sounds sappy but it really is all about the software.
 
J

Jest Chillin

Member
FyreWulff said:
If the casual crowd cared about tech or specs they wouldn't be playing games on mobile. Sounds sappy but it really is all about the software.
Click to expand...

I would honestly put the mobile/tablet crowd in a different category entirely. One could say that many CoD players are casual but I wouldn't go so far as to say that those same players are playing mobile and tablet games.
 
The Faceless Master

The Faceless Master

Member
EscoBlades said:
I keep saying this, but GAF being GAF...well...it gets drowned out by talk of specs, and MSAA and tech tomfoolery.

The amount of scrutiny peeps on GAF give to the industry is way...WAY above what the average consumer will ever do.

Strip everything down to the bare facts, and the fundamental difference to a lot of customers is price point. Not 1080p. Not teraflops. Not RAM. PRICE.

And even at $100 more, MS has enough spin doctors to convince their target demographics that the Xbox One is THEIR console. Half that work was done in the previous gen with the 360.

Do you know how many playtest sessions we have with regular gamers who can't tell the difference between 720p and 1080p? And you think they will give a shit? As long as their gun on CoD shoots when they press the trigger and it plays in HD.

Enthusiasts like those on GAF are a minority.
Click to expand...

i can't speak for everywhere and everyone, but in the USA, that $100 is more of a factor than everything else combined.
 
T

TheKaeptain

Banned
EscoBlades said:
I keep saying this, but GAF being GAF...well...it gets drowned out by talk of specs, and MSAA and tech tomfoolery.

The amount of scrutiny peeps on GAF give to the industry is way...WAY above what the average consumer will ever do.

Strip everything down to the bare facts, and the fundamental difference to a lot of customers is price point. Not 1080p. Not teraflops. Not RAM. PRICE.

And even at $100 more, MS has enough spin doctors to convince their target demographics that the Xbox One is THEIR console. Half that work was done in the previous gen with the 360.

Do you know how many playtest sessions we have with regular gamers who can't tell the difference between 720p and 1080p? And you think they will give a shit? As long as their gun on CoD shoots when they press the trigger and it plays in HD.

Enthusiasts like those on GAF are a minority.
Click to expand...

Gaf is the early majority when it comes to marketing. The late majority doesn't factor into the direction of sales until at least a year or later. There are also studies showing that all because a product does well in one generation doesn't mean its successor will do well in the following. It really comes down to price and the early reviews of the product.
 
F

FyreWulff

Member
Jest Chillin said:
I would honestly put the mobile/tablet crowd in a different category entirely. One could say that many CoD players are casual but I wouldn't go so far as to say that those same players are playing mobile and tablet games.
Click to expand...

And at that point I'd just point at the NES, PS1, PS2, GameBoy, DS, and the Wii, which all did fine despite lacking complex graphical features compared to competitors.

It's really disappointing to see people in threads want stuff "for some more sales". It felt like gamers used to be anal about tech but they at least viewed games as games. Now it feels like everyone thinks like a shareholder first now. "I can't enjoy this game unless it's ROI is over 7.8% YoY!"
 
E

EscoBlades

Ubisoft Marketing
Are game consoles more or less price elastic than cellphones (its pretty late here, so i'm not sure the comparison is a fair one.)

I'm thinking iPhone vs other handset models. cos the former in many cases is way more than $100 more expensive than other models that supposedly beat it hands down on performance, battery life and build quality.

If the tech forums that are the equivalent of GAF say so, then surely they'd be informing the casual phone users, and the trickle down effect would mean iphone sales bomb. And yet....some people just want the latest cool thing. And historically, MS have at least got one thing right...they can market to cool.
 
B

Byakuya769

Member
Microsoft has marketed to cool once in their entire existence as a company, that was with the xbox 360. I wouldn't count on them doing it again.
 
Jackben

Jackben

bitch I'm taking calls.
Zeus Molecules said:
I don't know how to process this event. Like I never get messed with in the hood like that, I couldn't even imagine somebody trying to punk me out to buy candy from them. I've never gave a hood pass before because I usually have better things to do than chill in the hood (especially in one in a Burrough that isn't mine) but I think I just did...... Shit is still just crazy to me.
Click to expand...
Sounds like it turned out okay at least. People in those positions are crazy insecure, I don't know why but I guess because they've been in the street mentality too long. Hyper paranoid about being disrespected.
 
The Faceless Master

The Faceless Master

Member
FyreWulff said:
And at that point I'd just point at the NES, PS1, PS2, GameBoy, DS, and the Wii, which all did fine despite lacking complex graphical features compared to competitors.

It's really disappointing to see people in threads want stuff "for some more sales". It felt like gamers used to be anal about tech but they at least viewed games as games. Now it feels like everyone thinks like a shareholder first now. "I can't enjoy this game unless it's ROI is over 7.8% YoY!"
Click to expand...

they all had a headstart.
 
S

Slayven

Member
Zeus Molecules said:
OK so about an hour ago I am coming home from a weekend grad class with one of my Greek classmates (I'm in school for shipping so lots of greeks) we're on the outdoor above ground platform at 4 pm talking about the class (in the Bronx). When a dude with a black bag full of fruit roll ups come up to my classmates and put his fist out for a pound. My classmate just looks at him quizzically though. So the candy guy (who mind you is 5 feet tall standing on his toes while my class mate and I are both 6 feet and taller) goes berserk and starts to shout out "why won't you give me a pound! What you think your better than me? So I intervene and say "oh man don't feel any disrespect he didn't understand you. he's a foreigner, this is just a misunderstanding. Its all love"......Keep in mind nobody in the world gives out random pounds so I already peep candy man for either being crazy or a hustler.

So candy man see's me (And I think finally realized I was with my classmate) and says "aight cool.... Cool.... Look I got these candy's for sale 1 for $2. Your friend should show love and buy some"....

I straight up say "nah we are good" and take a step to stand in between my classmate and the candy hustler to end the conversation. This ignites a 5 minute loud public display from the candy hustler on the platform about "Pigs not understanding he is a man" "and "so what if he says he is a foreigner he should respect me". I turn to my classmate and tell him to "ignore the candy man" and we both do basically that as the rant goes on ...eventually other people on the platform convince him its pointless to get mad and to relax (mind you no one buys his candies either)

He then goes to my class mate who is still looking at him quizzically and offers him the pound and tells him he is sorry and he admits he might be wrong because "he can do that because he is a man". He then apologizes to me, gives me the pound and to his apology I reply "no worries man its all love" and the train arrives and my classmate and I get on it and leave.....

I don't know how to process this event. Like I never get messed with in the hood like that, I couldn't even imagine somebody trying to punk me out to buy candy from them. I've never gave a hood pass before because I usually have better things to do than chill in the hood (especially in one in a Burrough that isn't mine) but I think I just did...... Shit is still just crazy to me.
Click to expand...
Dude sounded crazy. Or was running some high level game.
 
M

MorisUkunRasik

Member
I want to pick up some lotion but my gf doesn't like the smell of cocoa butter, I remember some people recommending nivea or something like that.


XB1 having less fidelity is just another bullet point against it. If you want to talk casual market, I think an embarrassing amount still think XB1 doesn't allow used games, I recall a thread about it somewhere here.

Big titles being graphically superior on a cheaper console is of significance, I'm not sure how much tho really. Sony would be foolish to let that go unnoticed by the casual crowd.


And if XB1 launches with tech problems...

Banderas.gif
 
V

ViewtifulJC

Banned
sNgltsP.gif


thread is wildin out now
 
The Faceless Master

The Faceless Master

Member
EscoBlades said:
Are game consoles more or less price elastic than cellphones (its pretty late here, so i'm not sure the comparison is a fair one.)

I'm thinking iPhone vs other handset models. cos the former in many cases is way more than $100 more expensive than other models that supposedly beat it hands down on performance, battery life and build quality.

If the tech forums that are the equivalent of GAF say so, then surely they'd be informing the casual phone users, and the trickle down effect would mean iphone sales bomb. And yet....some people just want the latest cool thing. And historically, MS have at least got one thing right...they can market to cool.
Click to expand...

iOS has better exclusives than XB1, and unlike XB1, the latest iDevice usually has a best-in-class GPU and capable CPU. and yet their marketshare is shrinking everywhere except the US, which is dominated by $199/2yr contract carriers.

the market where it's the largest success is also the same market that most consumers purchase it at the same price ($199/2yr) as the latest non-iPhone flagship mobile handsets.





ViewtifulJC said:
sNgltsP.gif


thread is wildin out now
Click to expand...

so wrong
 
The Faceless Master

The Faceless Master

Member
MorisUkunRasik said:
I want to pick up some lotion but my gf doesn't like the smell of cocoa butter, I remember some people recommending nivea or something like that.


XB1 having less fidelity is just another bullet point against it. If you want to talk casual market, I think an embarrassing amount still think XB1 doesn't allow used games, I recall a thread about it somewhere here.

Big titles being graphically superior on a cheaper console is of significance, I'm not sure how much tho really. Sony would be foolish to let that go unnoticed by the casual crowd.


And if XB1 launches with tech problems...

Banderas.gif
Click to expand...
i'm *still* correcting people on that. had to tell 3 people about that just last week.
 
H

harSon

Banned
The significance of the $100 difference is definitely overstated. The reason the Playstation 3 faltered at the beginning of the last generation was due to the fact that it was A) Out priced by the competition B) Had its release date undercut by the competition AND C) Had a worse game lineup than the competition, all on top of the fact that their marketing was horse shit in comparison to the competition. It wasn't price point alone. Only A is true for the Xbox One, at least within markets it actually has a chance at being competitive within.

Price definitely has meaning when it's substantial, for example, off brand televisions at Walmart vs. Sony, Samsung, etc. televisions where the difference is anywhere from a few hundred to thousands between similar sized televisions. But the difference in price here is minuscule in comparison. Consumers are willing to pay a premium when purchasing the iPad, instead of settling for cheaper alternatives. People are willing to drop major dollars on iPhones, Galaxy's and other expensive phones instead of settling for cheaper alternatives. People are willing to drop big bucks on these types of consumer electronics; and marketing, games, secondary uses and regional taste/preferences are ultimately going to be more of a factor than price and graphics when it comes to ordinary consumers deciding between the Playstation 4 and XB1.
 
J

J10

Banned
The Faceless Master said:
i'm *still* correcting people on that. had to tell 3 people about that just last week.
Click to expand...

Had to correct my nephew on that last weekend. AND he thought it was the same policy for PS4 for some strange reason. It made me think about how hard it is for companies to keep the general public properly informed about their products.
 
J

J10

Banned
Is it possible later down the line to get games like Ghosts and Battlefield running smoothly in 1080? Do they just need more time with the console? If Forza and FIFA are going at 1080 on The Bone I assume it's because there's significantly less shit going on on the screen.
 
The Faceless Master

The Faceless Master

Member
J10 said:
Is it possible later down the line to get games like Ghosts and Battlefield running smoothly in 1080? Do they just need more time with the console? If Forza and FIFA are going at 1080 on The Bone I assume it's because there's significantly less shit going on on the screen.
Click to expand...

you mean go back and work on a game they already sold? of course it's *technically* possible in theory, they just won't do it.
 
O

Oldschoolgamer

The physical form of blasphemy
Eh...@ the iphone example. Iphone's are only expensive if you aren't on a plan. Without they are damn near 700+. I can go to verizon and probably get one for 100-200 with a plan.
 
J

Jest Chillin

Member
FyreWulff said:
And at that point I'd just point at the NES, PS1, PS2, GameBoy, DS, and the Wii, which all did fine despite lacking complex graphical features compared to competitors.

It's really disappointing to see people in threads want stuff "for some more sales". It felt like gamers used to be anal about tech but they at least viewed games as games. Now it feels like everyone thinks like a shareholder first now. "I can't enjoy this game unless it's ROI is over 7.8% YoY!"
Click to expand...

I'd say most of those examples were during a time where one could say everyone who played games at that point was casual. Graphics at that point just didn't mean what they do today. I'd say the DS and the Wii are the only two that were released at a time where graphics was a major point and the DS had an incredible library and The Wii was lightning in a bottle in the new control scheme hype and the lack of availability fueling the popularity hype. Even with that being the case, I don't think the overall vibe about Xbox on Gaf is one of doom persay but one where people believe it will be convincingly dethroned. What makes it such a big deal is that I don't believe anyone thought this gen would have such a clearly defined leader. Everyone assumed the two consoles would be pretty damn close in performance and library and the difference would maybe be install base.

EscoBlades said:
Are game consoles more or less price elastic than cellphones (its pretty late here, so i'm not sure the comparison is a fair one.)

I'm thinking iPhone vs other handset models. cos the former in many cases is way more than $100 more expensive than other models that supposedly beat it hands down on performance, battery life and build quality.

If the tech forums that are the equivalent of GAF say so, then surely they'd be informing the casual phone users, and the trickle down effect would mean iphone sales bomb. And yet....some people just want the latest cool thing. And historically, MS have at least got one thing right...they can market to cool.
Click to expand...

Iphones succeed in that being a walled off garden means that many who adopted it when it was by and far more advanced get locked in. You could say that Live has the same effect to an extent with Xbox users but it's not as extensive as it is with Iphone. Beyond that Iphone also is very easy to use and straight forward. Part of the reason that Iphone has bounced back is because there is no universal Android OS. So many versions on so many devices makes it very confusing for the casual crowd.

tl:dr Phones are a different monster since IOS is uniform on all Iphones and Android is neither uniform in OS or in devices.
 
J

J10

Banned
The Faceless Master said:
you mean go back and work on a game they already sold? of course it's *technically* possible in theory, they just won't do it.
Click to expand...

No, I meant sequels to games not in 1080. I was wondering if those kinds of games were forever locked into 720 for some technical reason, frame rates, poly counts, effects use, whatever.
 
M

MorisUkunRasik

Member
J10 said:
Is it possible later down the line to get games like Ghosts and Battlefield running smoothly in 1080? Do they just need more time with the console? If Forza and FIFA are going at 1080 on The Bone I assume it's because there's significantly less shit going on on the screen.
Click to expand...

I think CBOAT has said as much, that is, games will eventually figure out how to hit 1080p. Performance will get better like it did with the PS3.
 
The Faceless Master

The Faceless Master

Member
J10 said:
No, I meant sequels to games not in 1080. I was wondering if those kinds of games were forever locked into 720 for some technical reason, frame rates, poly counts, effects use, whatever.
Click to expand...

the next game can be higher res, but typically, devs tend to stick to the same res or less and improve performance and add special effects in sequels. however, this would be a special circumstance and if there were some technical issue that is solvable that is the cause of the current resolution and that is resolved early enough, there should be nothing standing in the way.
 
E

EscoBlades

Ubisoft Marketing
Jest Chillin said:
Iphones succeed in that being a walled off garden means that many who adopted it when it was by and far more advanced get locked in. You could say that Live has the same effect to an extent with Xbox users but it's not as extensive as it is with Iphone. Beyond that Iphone also is very easy to use and straight forward. Part of the reason that Iphone has bounced back is because there is no universal Android OS. So many versions on so many devices makes it very confusing for the casual crowd.

tl:dr Phones are a different monster since IOS is uniform on all Iphones and Android is neither uniform in OS or in devices.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, that makes a whole lot of sense actually.
 
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