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The Black Culture Thread |OT7| Luigi took our stare
- Thread starter Silky
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The cop draws his gun and tells the two dudes to get out the car and lay down. One of them lays down, then gets up and sits on the curb. Cops yells at him to get back down and he's like "I'm not going anywhere, I'm just sitting." While the cop is busy handcuffing the other dude he runs away. I'm still laughing.
Yup. Nobody here from b more tho?
n00bsauce87
Member
EscoBlades
Ubisoft Marketing
Hold up! What is this?
Probably not. LOL
Angelus Errare
Banned
It is quite exaggerated, the average Asian female doesn't have cheekbones nearly as high as Faith's. The argument you're presenting can be thrown at us too. There are blacks out there with big lips and wide noses; yet if someone were to draw a character with these features would you not take grievance with that depiction? While there might be people out there who indeed have those features. As MH stated; those features are thrown in because it makes a character easily identifiable to what group he or she belongs to and much less as an "accurate portrayal". It works off society's shared idea of how they think X group of people look like and much less how they actually look like. You think Faith looks more realistic because that's how you think Asian females do and should look. The artist and you share the same view of how you think Asian females look. All that's transpired is trading one stereotypical view for another.
It's always easy to see what artists draw from real life and what artists rely on stereotypes and shared ideas of how a group of people look like. It's quite clear that the artist who drew Faith went by what he knows and he thinks an Asian woman looks like and less what they actually look like through observation (the cornerstone of creating a realistic rendition).
As an example, this is how a Chinese artist views Chinese females.
This is how a Korean views Korean females (the artist is N.Korean but meh)
This is how a Japanese artist views Japanese women (also one of my favorite artists).
Compare and contrast with Faith
I've never argued their depiction was any better, in fact I pretty much say gamers are not really worth speaking on when it comes to having a normal view of how people should be perceived. With that stated the Japanese gamers' complaints are valid. Japanese, Chinese, and Korean women don't really look the same at all. So it's not shocking that Japanese gamers see Faith and don't think she looks realistic their horrible changes to the ME2 picture aside.
10 women face average no surgeries.
Japan
China
Korea
Left out Pacific Islanders not out of malice or anything but honestly because I'm lazy.
Anyways, compare and contrast those faces to Faith; and then to the artists renditions above. You'll see that Faith really isn't anymore realistic than the Japanese gamer's changes. A stereotypical view from two different viewpoints. One of a Japanese person, the other of a Swedish person.
For all the wrong that Japanese artist got right, much of what he did has truth in it. He lowered faith's ridiculously high cheek bones. While genetically Asians have higher cheekbone placement over African and Europeans, they're not so high as to be inline with their eye sockets; he made their faces rounder because...well the average female's face isn't some upside down triangle, complete with pointed chin.
It does have associated baggage...the stereotypical view born from western's perception of how Asian females look; and how they assume other westerns think they look. Most contemporary artists will agree that in order to create a realistic person, you have to draw from life (which is why I posted the paintings; none of the females are real but they're all painted based observation of females. Drawing from memories and what you THINK people of a certain group looks like only ends up looking realistic to those who share your same view and ideology. But to anyone born of that group; they're not going to see it the same way.
With all of this stated, it's both funny and sad yet not unexpected that BCT is like the only place of GAF we can have these kind of discussions void of stupidity and purposeful ignorance. BCT = minority representation of all kinds ha.
That shit kills me.
One of the few things I'll give Bleach props for: the major dark skinned characters have dope designs.
NipplesAndToes23
Member
I always thought Japan had some fascination for white folks like with your example and in video games their characters are majority of the time either Japanese, white, and sometimes Chinese. With a whole planet worth of cultural influence they keep using mythos from from those of European descent for their video games.
I also don't see how Faith's design is stereotypical in the least. It's not like she has those big ass teeth sticking out her face like in those old cartoons and talking with a bad accent. Those e-surance type cutscenes look like ass though and the model itself is just sort of on the ugly side which most games of the last gen suffered from and Mirror was one of the earlier games. She only looks properly like a human in only one of those official artworks.
I remember someone on GAF posting pictures of Asian models in Swedish magazines. To me they looked very different from both the occidental stereotypes we're used to as well as the "anime" or "J-pop" stereotype. And according to Wikipedia Faith is supposed to be "Eurasian," but I don't know what information that's based on. Could she have perhaps been based on central Asian features (Kyrgyz, Mongolian, etc.)?
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
Lucy's final form:
I think she's trying to tell me something.
she turn black.
I think she's trying to tell me something.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Even the average Mongolian female doesn't look anything like stereotypical portrayals of Asian women.
I mean here's the blended average of Chinese models and actresses
I mean really the most logical answer is that Faith is an amalgamation of different stereotypes of how people think an Asian woman looks and what "Asian" looks like (please believe Faith's design went through a focus group and chances are high said group contained no Asians); epicanthic folds of exaggerated proportions? check, high cheekbones that come up to the eye sockets? check, black hair (heh)? check. Congrats, you've churned out an "Asian" much like the same way one would churn out a black person if they went down the "I don't know much if anything about black people, but going by my assumptions and beliefs they look like this!" checklist.
As I stated earlier, it's always obvious when an artist has drawn from life and those who just draw/paint what they think is realistic.
It probably depends on who's doing it, how they're treating the character's personality, intent of having the black character look a certain way and ultimately how it comes off on paper or on the screen (respectful depiction vs. racist caricature). I wouldn't want certain depictions of an ethnic group off the table because of some irresponsible and disgusting idiots. I have a certain look that has had me labeled "Osama" and "terrorist." What if I loosely fit some idiot's stereotype and then another dummy decided with a broad brush mentality that people who look like me are too offensive for media portrayal? I'd be hurt and feel excluded. If I were made into a cartoon, I wouldn't even mind my features being exaggerated a little -- in tune with the rest of the art style, not for racist denigration.
correction to earlier: the re-done look was for when ME1 came out, but similar complaints about Faith cropped up when ME2 was revealed.
That's what I meant. I'm not saying Faith exemplifies a Japanese or Korean woman. There are women here from all over (especially Viet, Filipinas, Thais where I grew up), others mixed with black and Hispanic. Somewhat exaggerated artistic expression aside (and yet there are women with those unusual features), a woman like Faith walking down the street just wouldn't be so crazy. Maybe to Japanese she's ugly, but it just reminds me of native Indians (clarification: people from India) saying that the last Miss America winner, an Indian-American woman, was ugly because her dark skin color and features don't fit the country's current ideals of beauty.
Angelus, I do agree with you though that if the Faith look is always the trend for character creation, then it's wrong and fucked up -- and those artists need to broaden their horizons and stop stereotyping. And yeah, we wouldn't be having this convo in shitty OT.
n00bsauce87
Member
He finally apologized. I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did. Then again, it's Stephen A., and he's a prideful man
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
OT isn't ready for that
That's a green light if I've ever seen it. You did this Mumei.
That's a green light if I've ever seen it. You did this Mumei.
From what I remember in the thread, the other thing that messed up the argument were a couple of posters arguing that certain Asian actors/actresses in US media were considered "ugly" by Asian standards (Lucy Liu off the top of my head was one of them) and it turned into a discussion of what Asian actors US media prefers, which really didn't help the argument in favor of the people criticizing the artist since it came off as self hatred as opposed to our media favoring people who "look Asian".
Did what, now?
Oldschoolgamer
The physical form of blasphemy
Are you serious with the spoiler?
Manmademan
Member
That bible thread tho
Chie Satonaka
Member
Apparently, I need to lurk in this thread more often.
Want me to fix it?
Vermillion
Banned
Lol
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
Technically. Okay movie, not a lot of action with her. A car chase scene that is men. She does a decent job acting but I wouldn't recc it in the theaters. I was bored.
Did you guys see this shit with the Gaffer who decided to write his own Bible?
21st Cenutry Holy Bible. A draft-esque alpha version
Toilet humor, racism, slut-shaming, gay "jokes," pedophilia reference... all in the first page or two, and he thinks it's HI--LARIOUS (he writes like this in his book). I think everyone has thoroughly ripped him apart for this horrific shit, so I'm okay tho.
21st Cenutry Holy Bible. A draft-esque alpha version
Toilet humor, racism, slut-shaming, gay "jokes," pedophilia reference... all in the first page or two, and he thinks it's HI--LARIOUS (he writes like this in his book). I think everyone has thoroughly ripped him apart for this horrific shit, so I'm okay tho.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Man has a Deus Ex: Invisible War avatar, you know you shouldn't have trusted that dude
Oldschoolgamer
The physical form of blasphemy
"nigga o'coon the black who took over all of africa"
Son....
The mods are laying down the ether in that thread. lol.
LOL
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
I cannot believe someone put energy into this dogshit
Uh, I have it on good authority that Shao Kahn Going Shopping is gone forever
ViewtifulJC
Banned
bobbychalkers
Member
22:24 His black slave
"(Nahor lived in the south) Reumah, who always had
a shitty attitude, also bore him children – Tebah, who
invented snapping your fingers and bobbing your
head back and forth when you want to get a point
across with an attitude, Gaham the one legged, who
invented pimp walking, Tahash, who has hair on her
upper lip, not a lot, but enough to make you shudder,
and Maacah, who loved fat white chicks."
spindashing
Banned
Dude legit thought up the name Nigga O'Coon.......yo...
Dude posted some extreme transphobic shit towards the end and got banned. What a fucking asshole. I think he should've just came out and said that he's an extremely racist and anti-LGBT piece of shit instead of wasting everyone's time asking for advice.
The fucked up part is that I genuinely do think he thought himself to be hilarious like an expert comedian. Delusion I guess.
The fucked up part is that I genuinely do think he thought himself to be hilarious like an expert comedian. Delusion I guess.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
What a fucking piece of shit. Legit caught feels with some of that shit because of his attitude about it. Really bothered, which sucks that it got to me, but it did.
Liu Kang should be listed first. Pretty sure he's the originator.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Ran a search (bing, also turn on safe search!) on Asian females cosplaying as Faith from Mirror's Edge.
Compare and contrast.
Best part about these cosplayers is that they're from all walks of life; Japan, Korea, Philippines, Cambodia, etc.
Everyone says she's based on Lucy Liu, while I can see it (if you ignore Lucy's eyes, and her entire face not being as long; and slightly more prominent nose). Someone must have fallen asleep at some point because Lucy's eyes aren't nearly as small (which is a stereotype) or hilariously angled (I mean angled eyes totally screams "ASIAN!"). And even if you levy that argument you're only reinforcing what is being stated. Faith's depiction is that of western standards of beauty. Lucy Liu by many in Hollywood is considered the most beautiful Asian in the business; and this is because she best fits THEIR view of how Asian women should/do look. Not to take anything away from Liu (I became a fan of her after the show Elementary). But Lucy is by no means how the average Asian female of any country looks. Which is again why it's not shocking to see Asian gamers complain about Faith's design.
Can't really even present the argument she's suppose to be mixed; then her stereotypical features would be subdued not enhanced.
This is my take away on the entire subject. I'm done on the subject, don't want to kill that Friday fun day vibe. Saturday - Thursday to talk about these kinds of things lol.
Compare and contrast.
Best part about these cosplayers is that they're from all walks of life; Japan, Korea, Philippines, Cambodia, etc.
(nice teeth!…
Everyone says she's based on Lucy Liu, while I can see it (if you ignore Lucy's eyes, and her entire face not being as long; and slightly more prominent nose). Someone must have fallen asleep at some point because Lucy's eyes aren't nearly as small (which is a stereotype) or hilariously angled (I mean angled eyes totally screams "ASIAN!"). And even if you levy that argument you're only reinforcing what is being stated. Faith's depiction is that of western standards of beauty. Lucy Liu by many in Hollywood is considered the most beautiful Asian in the business; and this is because she best fits THEIR view of how Asian women should/do look. Not to take anything away from Liu (I became a fan of her after the show Elementary). But Lucy is by no means how the average Asian female of any country looks. Which is again why it's not shocking to see Asian gamers complain about Faith's design.
Can't really even present the argument she's suppose to be mixed; then her stereotypical features would be subdued not enhanced.
This is my take away on the entire subject. I'm done on the subject, don't want to kill that Friday fun day vibe. Saturday - Thursday to talk about these kinds of things lol.
Alligatorjandro
Banned
Pretty sure there was a Subzero at the beach
MHWilliams
Member
Damn, y'all went crazy while I was gone.
A lot of the original Japanese animation was lost, but here's an article with some examples.
http://www.tofugu.com/2014/04/09/anime-before-it-was-anime/
A lot of the original Japanese animation was lost, but here's an article with some examples.
http://www.tofugu.com/2014/04/09/anime-before-it-was-anime/
Prototype Viktor
Member
i'll step in for Slay and help ruin/throw off the current topic
I rewrote the bible once, but it was hard to make a 2nd edit after setting it on fire
We need this type of talk more often IMO. Everything can't be Destiny Beta, Song of the Slayven, and My Little Jandro.
I didn't even click becuase religon on gaf is a lsot conversation.
I wonder what his ban message is?22:24 His black slave
"(Nahor lived in the south) Reumah, who always had
a shitty attitude, also bore him children Tebah, who
invented snapping your fingers and bobbing your
head back and forth when you want to get a point
across with an attitude, Gaham the one legged, who
invented pimp walking, Tahash, who has hair on her
upper lip, not a lot, but enough to make you shudder,
and Maacah, who loved fat white chicks."
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
What took them so long? That first page was ban worthy.
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