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[DY_nasty]

oh aite cool

i was just throwing it out there because i had this same conversation with my friend last night. it kills me when some people go out and cop street fighter thinking that they'll be the #1 ken player in the US in 2 or 3 weeks because of the new and improved (lol) tutorial systems

i really do think that genre sees the most trade ins and returns outside of sports games.

hate to see people waste money like that

edit: btw, the new dynasty warriors gundam isn't 'bad' at all. its definitely very, very different than the previous ones. the FoV is garbage and the maps are smaller for no reason at all. buts its still enjoyable. should be holding me over until dw8: empires at least

 

[Slayven]

oh aite cool

i was just throwing it out there because i had this same conversation with my friend last night. it kills me when some people go out and cop street fighter thinking that they'll be the #1 ken player in the US in 2 or 3 weeks because of the new and improved (lol) tutorial systems

i really do think that genre sees the most trade ins and returns outside of sports games.

hate to see people waste money like that

See Dy I swear me and you think a like. I was just thinking about how the fighting genre have damn near alienated the casual market. You can get a PHD in less time it takes to get respectable in a fighting game nowadays.

 

[Retro_]

Every black person is a Ken player

one of the fundamental truths of our universe

 

[spindashing]

Every black person is a Ken player

one of the fundamental truths of our universe

War Flashbacks of Kens on XBL.

 

[DY_nasty]

^bs. i don't think i've played ken once in my entire life. cammy, sakura, juri. accept nothing less

See Dy I swear me and you think a like. I was just thinking about how the fighting genre have damn near alienated the casual market. You can get a PHD in less time it takes to get respectable in a fighting game nowadays.

I mean... okay. Look at Persona 4 Arena. It was great because of how simple it was execution-wise. From picking up the game late and playing against people who'd been a couple of months in, I could give out work just because of my feel for the game through GG days (because if you can rushdown in GG, you can rushdown in anything #akihikodagawd). Guys were getting legit pissed with me and the game entirely because I never gave a fuck about the 4k damage combos, talked good shit about being better at the game than they were, and handed out the business to people when we got online.

Learning combos and general execution takes a LOT of time to begin with. Knowing how to use them and how to play the game should be an entirely separate chapter. And honestly - some people should just look in the mirror and say that they don't have the patience instead of trying to live their EVO dreams out. If you play with friends, at least make sure your friends want to play that shit. Only reason I played BB for as long as I did was because my entire circle absolutely hated SF4

which was a crying shame really because I was always way better at that than I ever was in any other 2d fighter

edit: i laugh tears whenever i see people in a fighting game thread talking about some "i'm having so much trouble with qcf" "how da fuq do u dragon punch?" on release day

 

[DominoKid]

See Dy I swear me and you think a like. I was just thinking about how the fighting genre have damn near alienated the casual market. You can get a PHD in less time it takes to get respectable in a fighting game nowadays.

Its going to be fun when i get a PS4. I haven't seriously played a fighting game since high school so I'm basically back to square one.

Soul Calibur was accessible enough to get my college friends into.

They liked Mortal Kombat too. I hated the feel of that game.

 

[Alligatorjandro]

Killer Instinct is pretty fun for a fighting noob

 

[Infinite]

It depends on what you want out of the game and what you want to achieve. If your goal is to make top 8 at Evo then you're going up against dudes who essentially play fighting games competitively for a living and therefore practice the game on a day to day basis, most likely. If your goal is to just have a nice Friday evening out with some of your boys, getting together to press some buttons and talk some smack then that requires a smaller amount of time and dedication. So basically it's like with any skill based hobby; if your goal in playing guitar is to go major with your band then that implies a lot more effort than simply being good at it enough to actually have fun, learn your favorite song, and feel good about yourself.

 

[DY_nasty]

Killer Instinct is pretty fun for a fighting noob

and ponies apparently

It depends on what you want out of the game and what you want to achieve. *If your goal is to make top 8 at Evo then you're going up against dudes who essentially play fighting games competitively for a living and therefore practice the game on a day to day basis, most likely*. If your goal is to just have a nice Friday evening out with some of your boys, getting together to press some buttons and talk some smack then that requires a smaller amount of time and dedication. So basically it's like with any skill based hobby; if your goal in playing guitar is to go major with your band then that implies a lot more effort than simply being good at it enough to actually have fun, learn your favorite song, and feel good about yourself.

I shouldn't have exaggerated as much with that

*If you want to play online against randoms or in a ranked setting, ever.*

 

[Crocodile]

Just read the conversation from yesterday. Some stuff I already knew and some stuff I didn't. Either way those are the types of conversations that make me appreciate my time on GAF. Even just sitting back and reading can provide lots of opportunities for learning.

With all of this stated, it's both funny and sad yet not unexpected that BCT is like the only place of GAF we can have these kind of discussions void of stupidity and purposeful ignorance. BCT = minority representation of all kinds ha.

Yeah this is a sentiment I agree with for better or worse.

fighting games - in my opinion

straight up aren't worth the price for people that aren't gonna put a ton of time into them and know that they are ahead of time. (and they really aren't worth the price for those that spend upwards of 50+ hours in them either because of re-releases instead of patching)

Barring Game of the Year editions that just include all the DLC for free (which wouldn't even count as a re-release) I feel this is definitely a thing of the past with all systems being patchable and the reactions to shit like UMvC3, etc.

Also, Smash Bros. has always been the ideal pick up & play fighting game and a new one comes out in a few months. Just sayin'

 

[soundscream]

I think I just found Bizarro Slayven on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBh6hRXR_Zk

 

[Slayven]

Its going to be fun when i get a PS4. I haven't seriously played a fighting game since high school so I'm basically back to square one.

Soul Calibur was accessible enough to get my college friends into.

They liked Mortal Kombat too. I hated the feel of that game.

And Tekken, the streets loved Tekken. Hated Eddie Gordo and Hwang though.

 

[DY_nasty]

And yes, I'm still fucking bitter over Jun being removed after Tekken 2.

Extremely bitter

 

[Professor Beef]

Yeah, those fighting game posts outside of FGW always make me laugh. People legit being mad about fireball wars and other choices top players make and "honor" and other absolute horseshit.

And Angelus, everyone already knew that Community side was the best place for discussion on GAF. Shocked it took you this long to notice.

 

[Infinite]

Soul Calibur and Smash were the most accessible fighting games I ever touch. My whole family played them and we were very serious about kicking each other asses so much so that we had to organize periods of time where one person could sit down and practice their shit by themselves. I mean we weren't good as any of those dudes playing at Evo but that was our little thing. Probably the reason why I'm big on fighting games today.

 

[Slayven]

Has anyone the fighting game streets been accused of playing thuggish?

 

[KumaJG]

Eddie Gordo and Hwang probably most noob friendly characters in fighting games.

 

[DY_nasty]

Eddie Gordo and Hwang probably most noob friendly characters in fighting games.

naw. n00b on n00b title matches between chunli and dhalsim

 

[Retro_]

See Dy I swear me and you think a like. I was just thinking about how the fighting genre have damn near alienated the casual market.

I don't think they have. I think the issue is just that the market has shifted towards favoring a more passive form of entertainment than fighting games have to offer.

Like a common sentiment I hear is "why should I have to read outside resources to learn a game?"

.....because that's how learning games works?? You don't buy a chess set and expect it to teach you chess strategy in 10 minutes as soon as you open it. All it comes with is an essential ruleset and maybe some basic explanations. If you want to learn how to play and get better you have to read. You have to talk to people. That's how the strategies of a game are formed. By players outside of the game, not the developers pre-release.

I don't think fighting games have alienated casual players so much that the current market trends in gaming have conditioned players to think video games are something that can be mastered in 10 minutes before the game starts.

 

[Professor Beef]

Has anyone the fighting game streets been accused of playing thuggish?

I got accused of being a "fagget" because I stood still as Hugo. Dude was playing M.Bison, the fuck was I gonna do lol

 

[Slayven]

I don't think they have. I think the issue is just that the market has shifted towards favoring a more passive form of entertainment than fighting games have to offer.

Like a common sentiment I hear is "why should I have to read outside resources to learn a game?"

.....because that's how learning games works?? You don't buy a chess set and expect it to teach you chess strategy in 10 minutes as soon as you open it. All it comes with is an essential ruleset and maybe some basic explanations. If you want to learn how to play and get better you have to read. You have to talk to people. That's how the strategies of a game are formed. By players outside of the game, not the developers pre-release.

I don't think fighting games have alienated casual players so much that the current market trends in gaming have conditioned players to think video games are something that can be mastered in 10 minutes before the game starts.

COD, GTA, Madden, and Destiny are passive?

 

[KumaJG]

I don't think they have. I think the issue is just that the market has shifted towards favoring a more passive form of entertainment than fighting games have to offer.

Like a common sentiment I hear is "why should I have to read outside resources to learn a game?"

.....because that's how learning games works?? You don't buy a chess set and expect it to teach you chess strategy in 10 minutes as soon as you open it. All it comes with is an essential ruleset and maybe some basic explanations. If you want to learn how to play and get better you have to read. You have to talk to people. That's how the strategies of a game are formed. By players outside of the game, not the developers pre-release.

I don't think fighting games have alienated casual players so much that the current market trends in gaming have conditioned players to think video games are something that can be mastered in 10 minutes before the game starts.

A lot of people want instant gratification. No one want to to put the work in to be decent at games.

I don't remember Chun Li being that bad. Dhalism and Saget was annoying as hell though.

 

[RP912]

Has anyone the fighting game streets been accused of playing thuggish?

Nope but I got accused for spamming and sucking which is pretty accurate. Thuggish 0_o wtf.

I swear folks can't even game nowadays without being accused of having a technique on some holding water with a stick while bending one leg shit.

 

[Retro_]

COD, GTA, Madden, and Destiny are passive?

Yeah

GTA is a single player game where you can do anything no pressure.

and COD and Destiny offer a ton of "carrot on the end of the stick" incentives to keep players occupied with things besides the game objective and getting better. Filling a progress bar is a very passive action like grinding in an RPG and doesn't really require you to actually learn the rules or strategies of the games they reside in

Like in COD the progress bars are so bad in some versions that it was pretty common to play in games where absolutely no one went for objectives because it was worth more outside of the game to just run around and kill people or camp and not die. I've had friends better at figthing games than I am tell me they play like this.

Sports games similar but Madden sells on the NFL brand, which is what Sports games live and die by. (RIP Blitz)

 

[n00bsauce87]

I was a Bison player in the Alpha series and a Blanka/Rose player in the SF4 series.

But Ken was my character of choice in the EX series. Fuck him and his flowchart though.

 

[CountBlack]

damn y'all talkin bout fighting games.. Let me see where should I start..

Capcom does not care about black people.

I've mained Deejay since Super street fighter came out in I think 2010? And have wasted mad hours since. Since this nigga was released you could already tell that he's ass. There's no reason to play him over Guile or any character with a fireball. But, being the darkskin GAWD that I am, I decided to stick with him because I try to main Black characters or the Bruce Lee look a likes (fuck Ken). Anyway.. So the new updates come in.. AE, Deejay gets slightly buffed and has one of his main footsie tools nerfed to not be airborne. Fine. AE2012 comes, Deejay gets a cool buff in his Super-> Ultra but that doesn't fix any of his issues. Fine. Here comes Ultra with this whole Fan feedback shit. I write straight up essays on what they should do with Deejay and the reasons why he's in the bottom 3 worst characters in the game. In the beta version, Deejay was mostly buffed, not significantly, but no nerfs.

Here comes the final version, Deejay receives a plethora of nerfs and is forced to be the Black Dan that capcom envisioned him to be

Capcom hates black people and me

Spoiler

I picked up Rose and have been happy since

 

[Retro_]

A lot of people want instant gratification. No one want to to put the work in to be decent at games.

Yeah and there's nothing wrong with that

I just also don't think there's anything wrong with games demanding a little more from players. I don't feel that fighting games are at fault for "alienating" casual players. They're just for a different crowd than the mass market

and I think smaller Japanese FG devs are starting to realize this and budget accordingly to where their games are sustainable with the followings they have.

No clue what Capcom is going to do though. They want SF and fighting games to be huge in a way that I just don't think is possible anymore, and if they aren't that big it's probably not worth it for them to make those games given the size of the company

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

Fighting games are probably the only games I get to consistently play on consoles these days otherwise I'm playing monster hunter or Pokemon.

Monica! I've been meaning to ask who plays mh in this thread.

 

[MikeBreezy92]

damn y'all talkin bout fighting games.. Let me see where should I start..

Capcom does not care about black people.

I've mained Deejay since Super street fighter came out in I think 2010? And have wasted mad hours since. Since this nigga was released you could already tell that he's ass. There's no reason to play him over Guile or any character with a fireball. But, being the darkskin GAWD that I am, I decided to stick with him because I try to main Black characters or the Bruce Lee look a likes (fuck Ken). Anyway.. So the new updates come in.. AE, Deejay gets slightly buffed and has one of his main footsie tools nerfed to not be airborne. Fine. AE2012 comes, Deejay gets a cool buff in his Super-> Ultra but that doesn't fix any of his issues. Fine. Here comes Ultra with this whole Fan feedback shit. I write straight up essays on what they should do with Deejay and the reasons why he's in the bottom 3 worst characters in the game. In the beta version, Deejay was mostly buffed, not significantly, but no nerfs.

Here comes the final version, Deejay receives a plethora of nerfs and is forced to be the Black Dan that capcom envisioned him to be

Capcom hates black people and me

Spoiler

I picked up Rose and have been happy since

Damn dude you heard FGs and jumped from the FGW thread to here lol

 

[Retro_]

Monica! I've been meaning to ask who plays mh in this thread.

I'm waiting for 4 Ultimate

Seems like a 3DS is in my future. Hopefully they localize that new One Piece fighting game for it. That, Smash and MH4U would finally make me bite

 

[Silky]

damn y'all talkin bout fighting games.. Let me see where should I start..

Capcom does not care about black people.

I've mained Deejay since Super street fighter came out in I think 2010? And have wasted mad hours since. Since this nigga was released you could already tell that he's ass. There's no reason to play him over Guile or any character with a fireball. But, being the darkskin GAWD that I am, I decided to stick with him because I try to main Black characters or the Bruce Lee look a likes (fuck Ken). Anyway.. So the new updates come in.. AE, Deejay gets slightly buffed and has one of his main footsie tools nerfed to not be airborne. Fine. AE2012 comes, Deejay gets a cool buff in his Super-> Ultra but that doesn't fix any of his issues. Fine. Here comes Ultra with this whole Fan feedback shit. I write straight up essays on what they should do with Deejay and the reasons why he's in the bottom 3 worst characters in the game. In the beta version, Deejay was mostly buffed, not significantly, but no nerfs.

Here comes the final version, Deejay receives a plethora of nerfs and is forced to be the Black Dan that capcom envisioned him to be

Capcom hates black people and me

Spoiler

I picked up Rose and have been happy since

but Boxer and Dudley are good

--

I love fighting games even though I'm trash at them. I don't expect much when I practice, but it's nice to be pretty good in my community of friends that also play FGs.

 

[EscoBlades]

naw. n00b on n00b title matches between chunli and dhalsim

E.Honda says hi.

 

[Angelus Errare]

I love my fighting games but I know where I rank in them. I won't be making bank as a pro and that's okay. Since we're on the subject, I hope French Bread makes another Melty Blood with updated sprites...oh god that would be so dope!

I think I just found Bizarro Slayven on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBh6hRXR_Zk

lmao! Nothing bizarro about that. That's Slayven and his channel.

 

[Infinite]

Monica! I've been meaning to ask who plays mh in this thread.

Got like +500 hours in 3 ultimate and still having fun with it. Can't wait for 4 and that's going to be online.

 

[Vermillion]

Monica! I've been meaning to ask who plays mh in this thread.

Ooh, I do! I'm only an HR4, but since no one's been in the community, I haven't gotten to play with anyone to rank up.

Spoiler

Satch plays, too.

 

[DY_nasty]

Yeah

GTA is a single player game where you can do anything no pressure.

and COD and Destiny offer a ton of "carrot on the end of the stick" incentives to keep players occupied with things besides the game objective and getting better. Filling a progress bar is a very passive action like grinding in an RPG and doesn't really require you to actually learn the rules or strategies of the games they reside in

Like in COD the progress bars are so bad in some versions that it was pretty common to play in games where absolutely no one went for objectives because it was worth more outside of the game to just run around and kill people or camp and not die. I've had friends better at figthing games than I am tell me they play like this.

Sports games similar but Madden sells on the NFL brand, which is what Sports games live and die by. (RIP Blitz)

Injustice handled incentives very, very well imo

Another thing - people expect to die in plenty of games. Nothing quite like having your ass handed to you in fighting game though. People ain't ready to have a mirror shoved in their faces like that. Its such a plain "you're not good enough, gtfo". It almost resembles a real life event in that regard. People don't like that. Its the primary reason why fighting games get put back on the shelves in the used isle.

I'd LIKE to say that everyone thinks that personal progression and sit-in community type environments draw people. But in reality, they really don't have that much of a significant effect. People will always by fighting games because they're sexy as hell and typically draw way better than what actually makes sense but lets be real

the typical consumer ain't about that life

 

[CountBlack]

but Boxer and Dudley are good

--

I love fighting games even though I'm trash at them. I don't expect much when I practice, but it's nice to be pretty good in my community of friends that also play FGs.

Yea I've had Balrog as my main chicken for a while as well. He's just gotten kind've boring and stale fighting style wise. Dudley is a whole lot of fun but really execution heavy which I don't really have a problem with.

Damn dude you heard FGs and jumped from the FGW thread to here lol

Nah I post in here from time to time.. Stay lurking tho. Conversations in here are funny af


I think Tekken relates a bit to the topic DY is talking about. Tekken tag tournament 2 is a beautiful game, great music, tons of free content, amazing Netcode, tons of extra modes and shit.. But the difficulty of the game tho. I really wanted to get into Tekken with that game but goddamn. I spend like 20 hours in training, grinding out combos and learning only two characters, learning gameplay systems and checking tutorials. Go online after all of that.. Get bodied by a dude just mashing jab. It hurts :cryfam: especially being really good at Street fighter then feeling so hopeless on another game.

Even trying KOF13 and I can't even do the simple shit smh

 

[Onemic]

Yeah and there's nothing wrong with that

I just also don't think there's anything wrong with games demanding a little more from players. I don't feel that fighting games are at fault for "alienating" casual players. They're just for a different crowd than the mass market

and I think smaller Japanese FG devs are starting to realize this and budget accordingly to where their games are sustainable with the followings they have.

No clue what Capcom is going to do though. They want SF and fighting games to be huge in a way that I just don't think is possible anymore, and if they aren't that big it's probably not worth it for them to make those games given the size of the company

I think it's possible to make them bigger without destroying the integrity of the game. The main problem has always been the fact that FG's(especially SF) do not teach you the fundamentals about how to play the game period. I remember when I first got into the genre 2 years ago and the insane amount of digging I had to go through to find out concepts like meaties.(I only found out about late teching a few months ago) All the more advanced stuff that is pretty much needed if you dont want to never win a single game in ranked need to be presented and taught in a FG so that beginner players dont have to scour the internet to find these things.

I remember James Chen and a few other personalities were having a discussion about this and Smash and I think they were right on the money when they talked about how the Smash challenges were probably the best types of tutorials for players to get better. If SF could do something like that other than their dumb as hell trial modes(or just have it as a seperate mode to their trials even) where you learn concepts like crouch techs, techs, meaties, late techs, counter hits, frame traps, etc. but within a competitive score-attack like setting so it feels more like a game rather than a boring tutorial, I think a lot more people that have an interest in FG's but feel overwhelmed by how complicated it seems would be much more likely to stick with it.

It's either that or bring dem auto combos.

 

[Parallax]

Eddie Gordo and Hwang probably most noob friendly characters in fighting games.

Hwang noob friendly? You mean button mash maxi, right?

 

[Oldschoolgamer]

It would be great if Capcom would borrow/take/steal/whatever Skullgirl's tutorials and present it like Blazblue, with the extra cute shit.

 

[Tokubetsu]

It would be great if Capcom would borrow/take/steal/whatever Skullgirl's tutorials and present it like Blazblue, with the extra cute shit.

SFIV's tutorials are fine.

 

[Trey]

Kraftwerk redeemed.

 

[DominoKid]

Hwang noob friendly? You mean button mash maxi, right?

Button mashing maxi is a surefire way to self Ring Out.

 

[Jado]

See Dy I swear me and you think a like. I was just thinking about how the fighting genre have damn near alienated the casual market. You can get a PHD in less time it takes to get respectable in a fighting game nowadays.

Gave up on learning(!) serious fighting games in PS2/GC era, right when I started college and realized I had no time for that stuff. For all the shit it seems to get from hardcore crowd, Smash is perfect for casuals, older gamers with less time on their hands and people who never liked their games so difficult to learn and felt alienated when they became much more complex than 16-bit Street Fighters.

I actually think modern controls are one of the biggest hindrances in gaming that need to be overcome if certain genres are not to remain hampered by high entry barriers. Hoping that in 10-20 years mind-based controls take off. Some of the early stuff looks promising with devices similar to this one.

 

[GungHo]

Man... My boss legit caught feelings when I explained why I was getting out.

I kinda feel bad.

Never feel bad when you're doing what's right for you. I wish I could say the memories always last, but sooner or later you don't think of them and they don't think of you, except in those "remember that guy" conversations. Keep up the hard charge forward.

 

[Retro_]

Nah

I want to push buttons until I die

 

[Parallax]

Button mashing maxi is a surefire way to self Ring Out.

before i started circling, having to deal with this asshole rolling at me was a damn problem

 

[soundscream]

lmao! Nothing bizarro about that. That's Slayven and his channel.

But he's a Nintendo fanboy, Slayven ain't sunk that low.............yet.

 

[Oldschoolgamer]

SFIV's tutorials are fine.

Eh? I never needed them and haven't even seen them since it first dropped and I watched a friend go through them. They were okay, but in terms of actually teaching how to play and not just button motions, SG is what the base standard should start looking like (and I mean at minimum). VF is next level though.

edit: I think that's one of the biggest problems going against fighters now. Okay, you taught someone a special move and how to block. They're still going to get bodied and won't understand why or how to prevent it.

To be fair though, I haven't seen what the later editions added to SF

Nah

I want to push buttons until I die

Amen.

 

[royalan]

That Wonder Woman costume is fucking disgusting.

At this rate fucking Ben Affleck would have to show up on my doorstep naked with the money for the movie ticket (and the cost of a LARGE popcorn and drink) taped to his erect penis to get me to pay to see that movie.