Agree with this. I never got the bullet sponge complaints about Borderlands and Destiny, either.
The Division - Review Thread
- Thread starter digitalrelic
- Start date
Agree with this. I never got the bullet sponge complaints about Borderlands and Destiny, either.
sobaka770
Banned
Well there's only so many ways to make the RPG work. I mean it's not far from something like Dragon Age bosses isn't it? You wear them down running out of mana/ammo with rush of being one-shotted, that's just Western RPG design. As I said there's not that many third person ARPG shooters, so I don't get the comment "we've played it years ago" unless you have concrete examples. Actually most modern shooters don't have this design. The genre is all the rage now, just look at Diablo3 or Destiny sales (and Destiny at release was a proper 6.5) and have a modern-world third person spin on it is more innovation than Game of the Year Fallout 4 ever did(what's Jim's score for that buggy mess?), or Dragon Age Inquisition a year before for that matter.
Reviewers are a fickly bunch, they want innovation from every AAA release in everything. They play to many games to get a kick from a yearly CoD release. That's why they rate indie games so high. In this case, the gameplay loop is solid, good loot progression is there, UI, lengthy campaign, good implementation of talents and stats so far. It's a summer movie game and that's all right, there always an Undertale for people who are "true gamers" whatever that means.
ethomaz
Banned
Spingebob in Destiny vanilla needed over 15 minutes shooting in the same place to be killed... it was easy but tedious even with Ghorn spam or max impact snipers.
BudokaiMR2
Member
My biggest problem and the reason I still can't convince myself to pick up the game is how that aspect combines with the setting.
I have no problem when it takes a few hits to take down a 10 foot tall armored space-bug carrying a giant sword and blocking my laser bullet shots with a conjured flame shield.
However when it is a slightly jacked human in a knock-off Yeezie hoodie running straight at me with a baseball bat while I unload half a clip from an assault rifle it just bothers me on a conceptual level.
StrongBlackVine
Banned
It is down to 83 now. Dropping like a rock.
Malcolm9
Member
Isn't it part of the whole game experience though? If that's how they feel from playing the game then it's a valid point in their opinion.
The Mass Effect Trilogy worked well as an RPG style shooter due to the different enemy varieties, worlds and narrative. Running around a fairly empty city (although graphically nice, but more in regards to interaction) shooting spongey enemies just doesn't feel as good.
The irony is that when you finally meet NPCs that logically should survive your shots, they die just as easily as everyone else.
Playing solo, my problems would be:
- the dark zone is too dangerous, not due to players, instead it's the roving groups of purple NPCs that walk up behind you.
- the storyline is... well there isn't one
.- the storyline progression is messed up. As someone mentioned LMB appears without any introduction, and everyone seems to think that I know who they are. Similarly, they introduce rogue agent evidence in the early zones, but characters are shocked to find evidence of rogue agents later
.- the stats are a bit too abstract, and everything suffers from being kindof unexciting (most perks/talents are literally +3% something-or-other). There's no sense of 'rolling a new character to see what X does' - it does +3%.
- the guns are statistically different, but most feel pretty damn similar.
- there are 4 or 5? different enemy 'races'. So the game very much suffers from the RPG "level 30 rats" syndrome, where the same mob is repeated over-and-over again at different levels.
- building the base seems cool, until you realise that all of the 'upgrades' are just basically visual.
I'd give it an 8/10. The engine/setting is spectacular, the game less so.
The irony is that when you finally meet NPCs that logically should survive your shots, they die just as easily as everyone else.
Playing solo, my problems would be:
- the dark zone is too dangerous, not due to players, instead it's the roving groups of purple NPCs that walk up behind you.
- the storyline is... well there isn't one
- the storyline progression is messed up. As someone mentioned LMB appears without any introduction, and everyone seems to think that I know who they are. Similarly, they introduce rogue agent evidence in the early zones, but characters are shocked to find evidence of rogue agents later
- the stats are a bit too abstract, and everything suffers from being kindof unexciting (most perks/talents are literally +3% something-or-other). There's no sense of 'rolling a new character to see what X does' - it does +3%.
- the guns are statistically different, but most feel pretty damn similar.
- there are 4 or 5? different enemy 'races'. So the game very much suffers from the RPG "level 30 rats" syndrome, where the same mob is repeated over-and-over again at different levels.
- building the base seems cool, until you realise that all of the 'upgrades' are just basically visual.
I'd give it an 8/10. The engine/setting is spectacular, the game less so.
This one is funny and so obvious when you find that Echo in Clinton....I won't say who or what. But yes, it was predictable lol
Exploratory
Banned
Poor AI? The Division has the best enemy tactics I've seen in a shooter for as long as I can remember. They're super aggressive know exactly when to push, they flank you, they throw grenades to get you out of cover and then push at the same time. Maybe the AI lays a dud sometimes but it definitely isn't poor overall.
BattleMonkey
Member
Because people have been playing 3rd person and fps for 2 decades now and a big part of shooter combat is the feedback of your guns.
Also real time shooter mechanics get muddled when you toss in HP and rpg mechanics, the combat balance is completely different nature that it feels off. It's different to fantasy like rpgs where its the other way around, people are used to dealing with slow paced or turn based rpg mechanics.
Taking real time shooter and slowing it all down with RPG mechanics is hard for ppl to really grasp, and some just hate it.
A big problem with bullet sponge shooter mechanics is really often there is no strategy to it, the enemies repeat same thing over and over so its just a boring slog, the Division is really bad at this as you will have bosses who do nothing but take cover in a single spot, and pop up to shoot and get back down. This can go on for 5-10 minutes with little to no variety at all in encounters to keep things interesting.
Lanrutcon
Member
I was using the words of the guy I quoted
My only complaint against the AI is that they display almost no self-preservation instinct and don't react to pain. They're way too eager to charge into firing lines or get shot out of cover, while not adjusting enough to taking fire. Guys with shorter range weapons are incredibly gung ho.
Maintenance
Member
Nice to see that the honeymoon reviews are over.
Have to agree. I don't know exactly why I love it so much, It just feels great to play.
I have to acknowledge that lots of people don't like it, and that's fine, but gettting some sort of schadenfreude out of the metacritic score being low is pretty perverse.
bryanee
Member
Yeah, its probably my favourite game of this gen so far. I love it.
Mad Season
Banned
So you were hoping for it to fail?
dats crazy.
Have reviews ever trickled down like this before?
Gamers who brought this game at 93 rating and never check back going to get a rude awakening lol
Hell it might stall in the high 70's
Same for me.
Sodding_Gamer
Member
What's the post launch schedule for this game? Is there going to be free updates for players or will there just be paid dlc? Haven't followed the game much at all.
Xamtheking
Member
Free players are getting at least 2 major content drops this year, one in April and one in May
Malcolm9
Member
No one wants a game to fail, but it's good to see more balance in the reviews as the game is far from perfect.
So if they buy the game and enjoy it and then see that the reviews have dropped they will suddenly go "OH MAN so much time and money wasted on this game! If only I had known!"
Like, people who enjoy it will enjoy it. And people who won't, won't.
Reviews don't change anything.
Especially not in the age of Twitch and Youtube where I can watch the entire game being played.
digitalrelic
Banned
Lol man, so much hyperbole in this thread. No, it's not that crazy. And reviews trickle down like this with almost every game. There were originally only 7 reviews. There's only 13 now. That's a drop in the bucket. By the time everything's said and done there will likely be 80+ reviews. We have a long, longggg way to go.
The Incredible Muffin
Member
For me it is that I dont like the feel of bullet sponge enemies.
I dont like it anywhere but for some reason games like Destiny and Borderlands get a pass for it is Alien/ Unrealstic/ Non existent weapons.
Not to say that Division is realistic. But the weapons are modeled like that.
As gamers fired AK's and M4's for years it feels weird you need an entire clip to down someone where e.g CS GO a well placed headshot will do.
Its just what people are used to when it comes to the functionality of modern firearms vs fictional firearms.
I realized just how often game writers create cynics for NPCs. Took me playing beta and reading the reactions to the story to realize that even so it's a criticism I've noticed for a long time in general. Makes me wish, for once, they tried making your group uniquely positive and maybe have such amazing performances that it'll even make your 3 squad mates pay attention to even if they have no interest in the plot and want to get back out there grinding.
When you start to notice a pattern of games being successful in gunplay but falter in everything else to foster that avenue, something is going to give for some gamers.
I don't think "The Grind" is something to be inspired to.
well you can easily fix that by equipping enemies with body Armour, Riot shield, riot armour, helmets, etc
Sodding_Gamer
Member
Maintenance
Member
I was hoping to see reviews that played the game enough to see its flaws.
reviews to some people determine how much they will play or even like a game. thats all im saying
i need a example of games that took almost a week and half for big sites to review. its like they slowing taking turns releasing their scores. I can't remember Destiny launch was it similar?
7 is where I would put it, which is 'good' in my book. I find it to be incredibly addictive and fun to play, but the loot is not unique enough and it takes awhile to start getting some of the better gear. I am definitely getting my money's worth, though. It is certainly worth playing.
aggienader
Member
Wow. Metacritic score dropped by 10 since last I checked. What in the world is happening?
Collateral22
Member
What even is this statement? So what if you bought it at 93? If you are enjoying it then it's not like some review score is going to change that, if it does then that's just sad.
Anything over 80 is really a good score.
I only played TLoU but I didn't think it had that many options to tackle each scenario. My experience was always, take out as many as I could by stealth before finishing the remainder in a gunfight.
Yep haha, its a weird comparison. The combat in The Division is much faster paced, but they both have similar story setup and a lack of enemies.
It would have been way too slow! But TLoU with The Dark Zone would be an interesting concept!
jim2point0
Banned
The irony is that when you finally meet NPCs that logically should survive your shots, they die just as easily as everyone else.
Playing solo, my problems would be:
- the dark zone is too dangerous, not due to players, instead it's the roving groups of purple NPCs that walk up behind you.
- the storyline is... well there isn't one
- the stats are a bit too abstract, and everything suffers from being kindof unexciting (most perks/talents are literally +3% something-or-other). There's no sense of 'rolling a new character to see what X does' - it does +3%.
- the guns are statistically different, but most feel pretty damn similar.
- there are 4 or 5? different enemy 'races'. So the game very much suffers from the RPG "level 30 rats" syndrome, where the same mob is repeated over-and-over again at different levels.
- building the base seems cool, until you realise that all of the 'upgrades' are just basically visual.
Mostly agree with this stuff here.
What the hell happened to the dark zone? Not only are there never any other actual people in there, but the enemy spawns are crazy now. As a solo player, I typically have to fight through packs of like 10-15 NPCs at once (sometimes they are fighting each other). The beta did not have that many. Luckily, when I die I just sprint back to my body without worrying about somebody stealing my items because nobody is around.
I've only run into rogue agents once. I just ran away because PvP in thsi game isn't very thrilling (no skill involved at all, at least not when solo) and not worth dying over as the rewards do not outweigh the frustration of dying.
Yup. I'm level 18 \ DZ 14, and just about every single encounter goes the same way so far. There's never really any strategy other than avoid getting hit and take shots when the enemy is open.
I'm hoping that at some point, there's a twist and I'm fighting some new enemy types. But who am I kidding. This isn't Destiny, Borderlands, etc.
Bosses are... a slog. They typically do so much damage that you really can't afford to get hit. So really you're just taking cover, waiting for them to stop shooting, and then unloading a clip real fast. Rinse and repeat for 10 minutes until dead.
I'm having fun with the game but I'm not blind to the flaws either.
But maybe the critics don't like that?
Fractology
Member
I seem to be in the minority group with this one that feels like it's an awesome concept and has a ton of polish on surrounding the aesthetics (the music and UI sounds are such ear-candy to me), but something is off around the edges. In my 8 hours of play so far, the single biggest let down for me is not so much the "bullet sponge" factor, but the bizarre lack of kick and feedback with pretty much every weapon I've used. This leads to an immersive disconnect with the moment to moment combat that tastes a little like flat soda. You know it can be awesome, but something is slightly stale.
SMGs feel and sound like water pistols. Assault rifle bullets stream out of the gun like a laser rifle in Star Wars and also lack any sort of explosive sound design. The only guns that sound cool are the carbines and rifles. For a game that surrounds itself with gunplay and gun loot, I can't help but feel a bit let down by the flimsy feel that the weapons have. This is exaggerated by the lack of feedback on hitting enemies. Yes, I know they sometimes flinch and fall, but I cannot shake this feeling of what comes across as a lag in my bullets hitting an enemy to them reacting. They even collapse a few fractions of a second after my final bullet kills them. There's no (or very little) difference in feedback on the weapon you're using. A shotgun blast that kills an emery in one shot as they charge at my face results in an unsatisfying slow slump to the ground as if they just deflated (which would happen exactly the same if you ended their charge with a shower of SMG rounds). The enemy models don't appear to have any weight to them and the way they collapse also lacks the same polish that the weapon sound design does.
To people defending all of these concerns by pointing to Destiny as if it suffers the same faults, have you guys played it? There is a sense of connection of every bullet to an emery. A headshot, even if it doesn't kill, will result in a snappy animation that takes into effect the impact stat of the weapon you're using. It just isn't the same. If it felt like Destiny did, I would not be posting all of this in this amount of detail. It's difficult to articulate, but The Divisions gunplay just has a feeling of softness and lightness to it rather than the explosive fast paced danger that it would lead you to believe. It feels like Mass Effect 1's combat felt...which is totally OK...but I am much more into the tactile feel of Mass Effect 2's combat.
This seems to be the most decisive aspect of this game that many people are falling on one side or another. It's not something that breaks the game but it does sour the overall immersion enough to make it worth mentioning. I have not played enough of the story to comment on that, but if it is also giving off an "it's OK" feeling, I can see why reviewers are falling one way vs the other on this. I can say that so far, the character design is nothing to write home about. The coolest story shit seems to be the collectable backstory elements (if only because it's so raw...something I wish more of the main intractable NPCs portrayed).
Also...this was mentioned by the Giant Bomb crew and now that I've heard it I can't get over it: Why is the entire population of this apocalyptic NYC 25-40 years old?! It's such a strange bit of evidence of unintentional game design.
While this all sounds a bit whiny, I am enjoying this a bunch. The entire atmosphere is stunning. The overall game design is so unique it is worth a lot of praise, especially coming from a company that re-used its same formula so many times it nearly killed the entire open world genre. Nothing quite feels like it, and that in itself is refreshing and fun to experience. It feels really badass to seamlessly walk out of the calm and quiet of a safe house into the mangled jungle of the city streets.
SMGs feel and sound like water pistols. Assault rifle bullets stream out of the gun like a laser rifle in Star Wars and also lack any sort of explosive sound design. The only guns that sound cool are the carbines and rifles. For a game that surrounds itself with gunplay and gun loot, I can't help but feel a bit let down by the flimsy feel that the weapons have. This is exaggerated by the lack of feedback on hitting enemies. Yes, I know they sometimes flinch and fall, but I cannot shake this feeling of what comes across as a lag in my bullets hitting an enemy to them reacting. They even collapse a few fractions of a second after my final bullet kills them. There's no (or very little) difference in feedback on the weapon you're using. A shotgun blast that kills an emery in one shot as they charge at my face results in an unsatisfying slow slump to the ground as if they just deflated (which would happen exactly the same if you ended their charge with a shower of SMG rounds). The enemy models don't appear to have any weight to them and the way they collapse also lacks the same polish that the weapon sound design does.
To people defending all of these concerns by pointing to Destiny as if it suffers the same faults, have you guys played it? There is a sense of connection of every bullet to an emery. A headshot, even if it doesn't kill, will result in a snappy animation that takes into effect the impact stat of the weapon you're using. It just isn't the same. If it felt like Destiny did, I would not be posting all of this in this amount of detail. It's difficult to articulate, but The Divisions gunplay just has a feeling of softness and lightness to it rather than the explosive fast paced danger that it would lead you to believe. It feels like Mass Effect 1's combat felt...which is totally OK...but I am much more into the tactile feel of Mass Effect 2's combat.
This seems to be the most decisive aspect of this game that many people are falling on one side or another. It's not something that breaks the game but it does sour the overall immersion enough to make it worth mentioning. I have not played enough of the story to comment on that, but if it is also giving off an "it's OK" feeling, I can see why reviewers are falling one way vs the other on this. I can say that so far, the character design is nothing to write home about. The coolest story shit seems to be the collectable backstory elements (if only because it's so raw...something I wish more of the main intractable NPCs portrayed).
Also...this was mentioned by the Giant Bomb crew and now that I've heard it I can't get over it: Why is the entire population of this apocalyptic NYC 25-40 years old?! It's such a strange bit of evidence of unintentional game design.
While this all sounds a bit whiny, I am enjoying this a bunch. The entire atmosphere is stunning. The overall game design is so unique it is worth a lot of praise, especially coming from a company that re-used its same formula so many times it nearly killed the entire open world genre. Nothing quite feels like it, and that in itself is refreshing and fun to experience. It feels really badass to seamlessly walk out of the calm and quiet of a safe house into the mangled jungle of the city streets.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
Averages, how do they work?
I dunno, in general I find the loot variance in The Division is not that much less unique than in, say, the Mass Effect games, or even Deus Ex, and people seemed fine with those games.
Personally, I find the realistic setting highly refreshing for an RPG.
Just quoting myself here because I think I nailed it lol
Glitchesarecool
Member
You could get away with saying the virus/rioters killed the elderly and very young. Stranger to me is the apparent timeline that the game has.
aggienader
Member
Lol. Ok.
AncientDiety
Banned
ME and Deus ex are not loot games. This game is designed around constantly gearing up and getting better loot.
bryanee
Member
I love the amount of NPC's in the DZ. In the beta it was barren as fuck which made it mind numbingly boring. The DZ is always populated with real people as well so I haven't ran into an issue with a dead DZ.
Hunting rogues is also some of the most intense fun I've had. Just last night myself and a friend chased three rogues across a huge chunk of the map. And when they got caught in a dead end with NPC's we took our chance and destroyed them. I have no interest in ever going rogue but man is it thrilling hunting them down.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
That is exactly what I said yesterday, and people felt the need to jump on it negatively, lol.
When this is par for the course more often than not with games like this (loot grinding, etc). I am still on the fence with picking this up at full price, since it does seem to be geared more towards playing with a full team often, where the single player is less to be desired. It does not work with my lifestyle at the moment.
It also seems to suffer from a lot of glaring things that Destiny did, and quite frankly, over a year later after Destiny, those should not have been repeated.
You can't predict the obvious. One is not some Nostradamus because they state the obvious repetition these types of games usually go through in reviews. When you see 100's in the very first day or so the game is out, that shit is always suspect on games like this. Yet nobody wants to question the 100's in the beginning? 100's?
Then when expectations get more tamed, when other more time spent reviews come out, people who also are spending time with it, also feel they can relate to those reviews more, (hence the honeymoon phase, just like relationships really, ironically.)
But people want to spin it like this is some sort of fan war sometimes, or wanting to see something fail. Yes there are those who do that, shitposts to ignore, but again, you are not a scholar for predicting the obvious that happens in every game review. In essence, said 'prediction' is a passive aggressive shitpost, because 'no shit Sherlock'.
DirtyLarry
Member
I was hoping the fact my enjoyment of the shooter(s) genre(s) could possibly help me get a new appreciation for the RPG/loot based genre since The Division is attempting to meld the two genres. Unfortunately it has not. I still just do not like loot based games.
What I know adds even more to the frustration is because I am a big shooter player (both FPS and TPS), I am used to the fact that if you can aim at something and shoot, you have a pretty fair chance at things. Sure, there are plenty of modern FPSs were leveling up gives you an advantage, but still, a Level 5 player in a game like Call of Duty (just used an example, I do not play it all that much) still has a fighting chance against a Level 20 player. Even if it is a smaller chance due to their levels, they still have a chance.
In a game like The Division that is not really the case. If you do not have the gear, you cannot really hang with higher levels. It is how the game is built.
And I get it, that is the whole damn appeal of the game itself. For those who have the time to dedicate, that is the game itself. Getting that elusive item or purple drop or whatever the case may be. That experience is the game, and many, many people seem to enjoy it.
However for people like myself, with not a lot of time on their hands and especially who just have experience with shooters where the person with the best aim usually comes out on top, not the best gear, it goes against years and years of conditioning to this point. So it is amplified even more in this game. As people have already said, I think with other RPGs it is easier to accept as they are usually based in fantasy. And again, having played years and years of shooters that do not rely on this type of mechanic does not help. In fact I do believe it hurts.
So I took a risk and thought perhaps because I was a fan of the Tom Clancy universe and because the visuals really are great and because I live next door to NYC in NJ my entire life that this game may be the game to get me to change my mind on RPGs and loot based games.
I was wrong, and that is okay. It does not make the game a bad game. It just makes it a game that is not my cup of tea.
What I know adds even more to the frustration is because I am a big shooter player (both FPS and TPS), I am used to the fact that if you can aim at something and shoot, you have a pretty fair chance at things. Sure, there are plenty of modern FPSs were leveling up gives you an advantage, but still, a Level 5 player in a game like Call of Duty (just used an example, I do not play it all that much) still has a fighting chance against a Level 20 player. Even if it is a smaller chance due to their levels, they still have a chance.
In a game like The Division that is not really the case. If you do not have the gear, you cannot really hang with higher levels. It is how the game is built.
And I get it, that is the whole damn appeal of the game itself. For those who have the time to dedicate, that is the game itself. Getting that elusive item or purple drop or whatever the case may be. That experience is the game, and many, many people seem to enjoy it.
However for people like myself, with not a lot of time on their hands and especially who just have experience with shooters where the person with the best aim usually comes out on top, not the best gear, it goes against years and years of conditioning to this point. So it is amplified even more in this game. As people have already said, I think with other RPGs it is easier to accept as they are usually based in fantasy. And again, having played years and years of shooters that do not rely on this type of mechanic does not help. In fact I do believe it hurts.
So I took a risk and thought perhaps because I was a fan of the Tom Clancy universe and because the visuals really are great and because I live next door to NYC in NJ my entire life that this game may be the game to get me to change my mind on RPGs and loot based games.
I was wrong, and that is okay. It does not make the game a bad game. It just makes it a game that is not my cup of tea.
I can understand that, i know its not destiny, but when you found a awesome piece of loot you wanted to show it off so you'd go to the tower and show off, here cosmetically, everything looks very similiar. Loving the game just hope they add a little more uniqueness to high end gear and skins.