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[cackhyena]

Because I want to increase my health/magicka, being a hybrid character means I had to spread points thin so i want as many as possible.

Ah, I see.

 

[picklecannon]

Does anybody else level sneak off of those sleeping druagrs? Just crouch and smack the ones you can't loot and you always get sneak attack criticals. Only way I've been able to sneak up on anything with my heavy armor character.

 

[Volimar]

Not seeing the problem there at all.

The idea behind the Master-level spells is that they're hugely powerful and are basically pure mage spells, hence the cast time and requirement for two hands. They are inherently dual casted spells but I don't see how they trivialize the dual casting perks. Those perks still function and will still be useful for the lower magic sets which are highly functional and which you can often get off in combat far more quickly (and if your magicka reduction isn't up to scratch, for much cheaper).

That is basically the top-tier of mage abilities; it stands to reason that as a hybrid character, you may not get as much use out of it.

Secret Bethesda GAF account confirmed. That's too well thought out to be a random answer.

 

[Dice]

Does anybody else level sneak off of those sleeping druagrs? Just crouch and smack the ones you can't loot and you always get sneak attack criticals. Only way I've been able to sneak up on anything with my heavy armor character.

I boost sneak by hiding in shadows/bushes and shooting people with arrows from reeeeally far away. Takes some practice to get a feel for the drop rate of the arrows.

 

[subversus]

Does anybody else level sneak off of those sleeping druagrs? Just crouch and smack the ones you can't loot and you always get sneak attack criticals. Only way I've been able to sneak up on anything with my heavy armor character.

yeah, it's easy to level up on them.

 

[erragal]

Not seeing the problem there at all.

The idea behind the Master-level spells is that they're hugely powerful and are basically pure mage spells, hence the cast time and requirement for two hands. They are inherently dual casted spells but I don't see how they trivialize the dual casting perks. Those perks still function and will still be useful for the lower magic sets which are highly functional and which you can often get off in combat far more quickly (and if your magicka reduction isn't up to scratch, for much cheaper).

That is basically the top-tier of mage abilities; it stands to reason that as a hybrid character, you may not get as much use out of it.

Because the entire spell system for 80% of the progression is built around one handed spells; it also includes 6 (Forgot impact) perks dedicated specifically to being able to use spells with two hands. There's NO prior indication that the last tier of spells will use a completely different casting system; it's not a good design because it punishes players without giving them prior knowledge they're going to be punished. Why am I not allowed to make informed decisions as a player? They could easily have put under the dual casting/master perks in each casting tree: Note that master spells do not benefit from dual casting and require two hands to use. Now when I look at that I go: Ok well maybe I'll go with melee and alteration instead of relying on destruction. It's extremely frustrating.

A far superior design is say you want to allow a mass paralysis spell...why doesn't dual casted paralysis just do exactly what mass paralysis does? Dual casted paralysis actually COSTS more than mass paralysis anyway.

The other reason it's a problem is that the highest damage one handed spell (Incinerate, which is single target) does 75 damage. With very little effort you can far surpass that with non-sneak attack bow shots; with mild effort (not exploiting) you could easily get 3 times that damage on every bow shot.

 

[Dice]

Why am I not allowed to make informed decisions as a player?

You must be new to western RPGs. It has been my experience that you never know shit about anything unless you get an outside guide of some sort. I think this is common and accepted by the community primarily because the genre was founded on D&D which starts with you reading a guide and has someone designated to keeping things moving according to it. If you want to maximize your build, you have to research everything about it beginning to end, "spoiling" knowledge of different abilities and spells for yourself. It's just part of the heritage.

 

[voltron]

At least theres no achievements for finishing on certain difficulty levels etc...

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

I don't know how they did it, but Bethesda managed to create some kind of warp in the Space-Time continuum when they released Skyrim. It is the only logical way I can explain the fact that hours can simply vanish while I'm playing this game.

 

[Sarcasm]

So the Light Armor Perk worth it?

 

[erragal]

You must be new to western RPGs. It has been my experience that you never know shit about anything unless you get an outside guide of some sort. I think this is common and accepted by the community primarily because the genre was founded on D&D which starts with you reading a guide and has someone designated to keeping things moving according to it.

Pretty sure when I was playing Eye of the Beholder or Pool of Radiance wizards didn't suddenly change the way they cast spells when they hit 9th level magic; in fact to ease the transition to video games for D&D systems they removed the material components for many of the more powerful spells because it would destroy the fluidity of the system to change the requirements up on the player and restrict access.

I actually enjoy obscure and complicated mechanics; what I don't enjoy is changing the way you expect someone to play after allowing them to play that way the entire game. No matter what excuse you use it -IS- poor design.

If you want there to be 'super powerful' spells at the highest level you need to support it with -NON- super powered spells that can still be used in one hand at the highest level. Then you haven't taken anything away from the game but you've actually ADDED. And lets be realistic; every ST fire blast basically uses the same animation would it have been really challenging to put 3 new non 'super' spells in at master level?

It's a valid criticism of the game design, especially in a game that for the most part is excellent at allowing one to play how they want in a really organic fashion.

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

this input lag is seriously driving me crazy. have they responded to this yet or no?

thinking about switching back over to finishing HR until i hear something about a patch. :\

 

[fanboi]

Pretty sure when I was playing Eye of the Beholder or Pool of Radiance wizards didn't suddenly change the way they cast spells when they hit 9th level magic; in fact to ease the transition to video games for D&D systems they removed the material components for many of the more powerful spells because it would destroy the fluidity of the system to change the requirements up on the player and restrict access.

I actually enjoy obscure and complicated mechanics; what I don't enjoy is changing the way you expect someone to play after allowing them to play that way the entire game. No matter what excuse you use it -IS- poor design.

If you want there to be 'super powerful' spells at the highest level you need to support it with -NON- super powered spells that can still be used in one hand at the highest level. Then you haven't taken anything away from the game but you've actually ADDED. And lets be realistic; every ST fire blast basically uses the same animation would it have been really challenging to put 3 new non 'super' spells in at master level?

It's a valid criticism of the game design, especially in a game that for the most part is excellent at allowing one to play how they want in a really organic fashion.

I don't follow this.

What is the problem with two handed mega super high end magic? Whats lazy about it?

 

[Volimar]

I don't follow this.

What is the problem with two handed mega super high end magic? Whats lazy about it?

He wants to cast god tier spells without having to put down his beer.

 

[nib95]

Thanks for answering guys! Glad to know, I prefer this sort of enemy balance.

 

[erragal]

He wants to cast god tier spells without having to put down his beer.

Or maybe I want an ending to the progression of my character while still being permitted to continue the playstyle that was supported the entire game. If you actually read my posts I mention multiple times that I don't expect the power level of the super slow two handed spells to be the same in one handed form; I simply expect some final progression to the one handed spells themselves. They can coexist.

There's no reason to ONLY have super slow two handed spells at master level; there's room for both. Not having both caps progression for various one handed caster playstyles at expert level without informing the player.

And in response to the previous post: It's lazy because it basically says they couldn't put the time into balancing enough spells to support all the playstyles throughout the game.

 

[Dance Inferno]

Hey guys, I'm a few hours into my first playthrough and I just hit level 4. I'm leveling up one-handed weapons and sneak as I'm trying to be a thief. However I noticed I'm wearing heavy armor, and I was just wondering if there's any benefit to wearing light armor instead? Heavy armor obviously protects me better, but as a thief does it prevent me from sneaking or something? Just want to check if there's any benefit to ditching the heavy armor for something that will make me take more damage.

 

[Lakitu]

I seriously love this game. Spent the last couple hours just hunting in the wilderness with my bow and arrows. Been following the stream now for a while and just found an abandoned prison.

I got fucked up in there.

 

[Sotha Sil]

Or maybe I want an ending to the progression of my character while still being permitted to continue the playstyle that was supported the entire game. If you actually read my posts I mention multiple times that I don't expect the power level of the super slow two handed spells to be the same in one handed form; I simply expect some final progression to the one handed spells themselves. They can coexist.

There's no reason to ONLY have super slow two handed spells at master level; there's room for both. Not having both caps progression for various one handed caster playstyles at expert level without informing the player.

And in response to the previous post: It's lazy because it basically says they couldn't put the time into balancing enough spells to support all the playstyles throughout the game.

Yeah, choice is never a bad thing. Not being able to create spell is pretty lame to begin with. I realize it was all for the sake of balance, but it would have been nice to give us the option (with ulockable effects/power levels). I started the game as a pure mage, but I'm getting much, much more out of the thief experience.

 

[Arjen]

Hey guys, I'm a few hours into my first playthrough and I just hit level 4. I'm leveling up one-handed weapons and sneak as I'm trying to be a thief. However I noticed I'm wearing heavy armor, and I was just wondering if there's any benefit to wearing light armor instead? Heavy armor obviously protects me better, but as a thief does it prevent me from sneaking or something? Just want to check if there's any benefit to ditching the heavy armor for something that will make me take more damage.

Heavy armor makes more noise when sneaking. So if you're rolling a stealth character, you're better of with light armor.

 

[thelurkinghorror]

Hey guys, I'm a few hours into my first playthrough and I just hit level 4. I'm leveling up one-handed weapons and sneak as I'm trying to be a thief. However I noticed I'm wearing heavy armor, and I was just wondering if there's any benefit to wearing light armor instead? Heavy armor obviously protects me better, but as a thief does it prevent me from sneaking or something? Just want to check if there's any benefit to ditching the heavy armor for something that will make me take more damage.

Light Armor is much much more silent, Heavy Armore decrease your stealth abilities and the extra weight keeps you from stealing more stuff.

 

[Carcetti]

Pretty sure when I was playing Eye of the Beholder or Pool of Radiance wizards didn't suddenly change the way they cast spells when they hit 9th level magic; in fact to ease the transition to video games for D&D systems they removed the material components for many of the more powerful spells because it would destroy the fluidity of the system to change the requirements up on the player and restrict access.

I actually enjoy obscure and complicated mechanics; what I don't enjoy is changing the way you expect someone to play after allowing them to play that way the entire game. No matter what excuse you use it -IS- poor design.

If you want there to be 'super powerful' spells at the highest level you need to support it with -NON- super powered spells that can still be used in one hand at the highest level. Then you haven't taken anything away from the game but you've actually ADDED. And lets be realistic; every ST fire blast basically uses the same animation would it have been really challenging to put 3 new non 'super' spells in at master level?

It's a valid criticism of the game design, especially in a game that for the most part is excellent at allowing one to play how they want in a really organic fashion.

Not a good analogy. If you were playing those D&D games your multiclassed mage/fighter wouldn't even get those high level spells. Only pure wizards who could barely hold a dagger could use them, so there's still a sacrifice.

 

[Zeliard]

Because the entire spell system for 80% of the progression is built around one handed spells; it also includes 6 (Forgot impact) perks dedicated specifically to being able to use spells with two hands. There's NO prior indication that the last tier of spells will use a completely different casting system; it's not a good design because it punishes players without giving them prior knowledge they're going to be punished. Why am I not allowed to make informed decisions as a player? They could easily have put under the dual casting/master perks in each casting tree: Note that master spells do not benefit from dual casting and require two hands to use. Now when I look at that I go: Ok well maybe I'll go with melee and alteration instead of relying on destruction. It's extremely frustrating.

I'm honestly still not seeing the issue. I mean it's not like those dual casting perks are just disappearing.

I don't view the higher-tier spells as rendering the previous spells obsolete since they often have different functional properties.

Just open the gameplay up a bit for yourself. Go pure mage at times and wreck fools with some Master spells. If you're getting your spell skills and perks up that high then your magic is obviously effective, so there's no need to force yourself to also use melee every time if you also want to use the two-handed Master spells. Or mix it up and do both in a single fight.

I dunno, think of them like two-handed weapons or something. They take up both hands and they're slower, but they're stronger. I think that's all it really boils down to.

A far superior design is say you want to allow a mass paralysis spell...why doesn't dual casted paralysis just do exactly what mass paralysis does? Dual casted paralysis actually COSTS more than mass paralysis anyway.

But you get it off quicker and it will last for a longer time against a single target, which can still be valuable. Area-effective spells aren't always necessary.

The other reason it's a problem is that the highest damage one handed spell (Incinerate, which is single target) does 75 damage. With very little effort you can far surpass that with non-sneak attack bow shots; with mild effort (not exploiting) you could easily get 3 times that damage on every bow shot.

Stuff like this is more than made up by the fact that you can end up reducing your magicka cost to 0 or otherwise very low levels for Destruction or whatever other spell type.

 

[DigitalDevil]

He wants to cast god tier spells without having to put down his beer.

lmao!!

Spent the second night in a row playing from around 2 in the afternoon to 1 in the morning :/

My wife is still being cool about it (she usually lets me play almost all day sat/sun anyway, but I almost never play during the week), but I think her goodwill is running out!

 

[Dice]

However I noticed I'm wearing heavy armor, and I was just wondering if there's any benefit to wearing light armor instead?

Not only is light armor much quieter, but it has perks to make it even more quiet. Also, high-level light armor has pretty good defense, and everything can be padded with enchantments or shell spells.

 

[Zeliard]

Secret Bethesda GAF account confirmed. That's too well thought out to be a random answer.

Coincidentally I live in Rockville, MD.

 

[Kave_Man]

Whoa whoa whoa! Back up here.

I've played 15ish hours and only now do I discover you can kinda block with 2H weapons?

THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING!

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

I think I need to level my destruction. My flame spell lets me shoot endless fire pretty much but it doesn't do much damage. I've upgraded it once in the skill trees, but that's it.

I use a one-handed weapon and destruction while sneaking with archery, so it's hard to figure out what to level up...

 

[erragal]

Not a good analogy. If you were playing those D&D games your multiclassed mage/fighter wouldn't even get those high level spells. Only pure wizards who could barely hold a dagger could use them, so there's still a sacrifice.

It's not an analogy about 'power level' it's an analogy about information. If you look back he specifically said that I never played WRPG's because many WRPG's pulled 'bait and switches' and 'didn't inform the player'.

There are checks and balances in Skyrim for hybrids; the perk cost to be effective at both is prohibitive within the normal level bounds of the game. If they didn't want to support a specific playstyle throughout the entire game they shouldn't be advertising the system all over the place.

I'm surprised so many people find this to be ok; I actually really like Skyrim as a game but there's really no logical reason for every single highest level spell (Basically 16-20% of all spells in the game) to not support one of their primary gameplay features.

 

[odin toelust]

Coincidentally I live in Rockville, MD.

Congrats on your epic troll of the Dark Souls thread if this is the case

It's not an analogy about 'power level' it's an analogy about information. If you look back he specifically said that I never played WRPG's because many WRPG's pulled 'bait and switches' and 'didn't inform the player'.

There are checks and balances in Skyrim for hybrids; the perk cost to be effective at both is prohibitive within the normal level bounds of the game. If they didn't want to support a specific playstyle throughout the entire game they shouldn't be advertising the system all over the place.

I'm surprised so many people find this to be ok; I actually really like Skyrim as a game but there's really no logical reason for every single highest level spell (Basically 16-20% of all spells in the game) to not support one of their primary gameplay features.

I don't understand why you think that you should be allowed to use the most powerful spells in the game while using another weapon/shield. This isn't the case when it comes to melee weapons or bows for that matter.

Riddle me this: why the fuck would I play anything but a mage if I could use master level spells as well as crazy sword/shield combo. I understand being upset about not being told about the impending switch, but there is no reason to get your panties all in a bunch about it. Its simply a gameplay mechanic. If it really bothers you that much put your mod hat on and fix it yourself.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

I got fucked up in there.

I'll have to revisit. I encountered two ghosts and then found the exit shortly after that lead to the edge of a waterfall. Didn't really check to see if the prison went any deeper.

 

[Dance Inferno]

Oh cool, thanks guys. Guess I'll be switching to light armor then. Need to figure out what these enchantments are though and how I can use them.

 

[odin toelust]

Oh cool, thanks guys. Guess I'll be switching to light armor then. Need to figure out what these enchantments are though and how I can use them.

You'll amass them throughout the game just by progressing naturally.

 

[fanboi]

Or maybe I want an ending to the progression of my character while still being permitted to continue the playstyle that was supported the entire game. If you actually read my posts I mention multiple times that I don't expect the power level of the super slow two handed spells to be the same in one handed form; I simply expect some final progression to the one handed spells themselves. They can coexist.

There's no reason to ONLY have super slow two handed spells at master level; there's room for both. Not having both caps progression for various one handed caster playstyles at expert level without informing the player.

And in response to the previous post: It's lazy because it basically says they couldn't put the time into balancing enough spells to support all the playstyles throughout the game.

I still don't see a problem...

 

[Woorloog]

I'm surprised so many people find this to be ok; I actually really like Skyrim as a game but there's really no logical reason for every single highest level spell (Basically 16-20% of all spells in the game) to not support one of their primary gameplay features.

Oh. That's an issue certainly. But let's complain enough and we'll get one handed master spells in DLC (spellmaking as well). Perfect selling point for DLC.
I'm fine with "super spells" though.
Does anyone know how exactly does heavy armor (or armor at all?) affect spellcasting? Reduced damage, increased magicka cost or what?

All this talk about two handed spells makes me want to play my battlemage character (Dunmer, Heavy armor, conjuration, destruction, smithing and enchanting).

 

[erragal]

I'm honestly still not seeing the issue. I mean it's not like those dual casting perks are just disappearing.

I don't view the higher-tier spells as rendering the previous spells obsolete since they often have different functional properties.

Just open the gameplay up a bit for yourself. Go pure mage at times and wreck fools with some Master spells. If you're getting your spell skills and perks up that high then your magic is obviously effective, so there's no need to force yourself to also use melee every time if you also want to use the two-handed Master spells. Or mix it up and do both in a single fight.

I dunno, think of them like two-handed weapons or something. They take up both hands and they're slower, but they're stronger. I think that's all it really boils down to.



But you get it off quicker and it will last for a longer time against a single target, which can still be valuable. Area-effective spells aren't always necessary.



Stuff like this is more than made up by the fact that you can end up reducing your magicka cost to 0 or otherwise very low levels for Destruction or whatever other spell type.

That's the point though...if I wanted to go pure mage EVER I wouldn't have invested points into my block so I could be a shield using mage. I'm fully invested in one specific playstyle and interested in that playstyle; it's fun for me and it fulfills the role I'm attempting to play. For a huge portion of the game I've been given all indication this role would be supported for the entirety of the game; there's NO hint that I'd be artificially capped at Expert level spells while using a shield.

I don't actually expect the master spells to render my expert level spells obsolete; I just expect some form of progression for my playstyle. It's a game design issue; if you make some 'super' spells at master and some 'normal' spells at master then you've actually created MORE options rather than stopping one playstyle and giving people 'super nukes'

None of the other trees work like that, they only let you get better at things you already do. It seems very forced and like the spell system was revamped at the last minute.

They're not actually stronger; at least not in alteration. That's the real disappointing part about it...the last armor spell completely ignores a 3 point perk in the alteration tree and mass paralysis is a worse spell than regular paralysis in almost all situations. As I mentioned before: it feels like rushed design at the last minute. It's sad because I really enjoyed having to go on a quest for my last armor spell too.


I'm well aware of the points you make, and they're very good points for the most part, but not once do you acknowledge the flaws and lack of information. You seem to be focusing on finding me solutions (Which i'm perfectly capable of finding) rather than acknowledging the flaws in the system.

 

[jesE]

I think I need to level my destruction. My flame spell lets me shoot endless fire pretty much but it doesn't do much damage. I've upgraded it once in the skill trees, but that's it.

I use a one-handed weapon and destruction while sneaking with archery, so it's hard to figure out what to level up...

Same here. I enjoy melee attacks in this game. Unlike Oblivion, melee attacks feel like actually hitting something.
I like smithing also.

 

[eznark]

I am now a Companion. What a fun quest!

 

[bestami]

I left my companion to wait on someplace while i do some thieving. Can't remember where i left him now, couldn't find him . Is there a console command to summon him ?

 

[FHIZ]

Same here. I enjoy melee attacks in this game. Unlike Oblivion, melee attacks feel like actually hitting something.
I like smithing also.

It's funny, because five years ago, you could say

"Unlike Morrowind, melee attacks feel like they're actually hitting something"

Wasn't it Oblivion that did "if you see your sword hit something, it takes damage" where Morrowind it was still a dice game so to speak. I remember booting Morrowind up on my computer back in the day, hitting something with a sword, and thinking "why didn't that do anything?"

 

[batmandarkknight]

quick question, guys. should i buy spell tomes or are some loot-able? i dont like spending money when its not really needed. hahaha

i kinda wanna buy bound sword.

 

[JaseC]

I just got drunk with some Sam bloke and, apparently, managed an inebriated journey to Markarth.

 

[webrunner]

By the way, if you ever get a quest to go to Stony Creek Cave, and can't find the way up, the real entrance is Kagrenzel (or you can kinda jump up the rocks next to the waterfall)



Also, it's really great finding things that aren't on the wiki yet. I just added a follower to the UESP follower page:O

 

[popsicle_sundays]

So I joined the Dark Brotherhood last night

Spoiler

I killed the lady first because she was yappin' too much, but then I went and killed the other 2 as well, my elven sword sure did enjoy it

 

[Snkfanatic]

quick question, guys. should i buy spell tomes or are some loot-able? i dont like spending money when its not really needed. hahaha

i kinda wanna buy bound sword.

I love bound sword, use it all the time now. Looks so bad ass in 3rd person when you conjure two swords at one time.

 

[Izuna]

Wasn't it Oblivion that did "if you see your sword hit something, it takes damage" where Morrowind it was still a dice game so to speak. I remember booting Morrowind up on my computer back in the day, hitting something with a sword, and thinking "why didn't that do anything?"

It's more to do with the animation/effects. There's controller vibration, the camera shakes, and the sounds are better. In older games no matter what you were hitting, the swing animations was the same, major detachment.

It's only going to get better. =)

 

[webrunner]

I just got drunk with some Sam bloke and, apparently, managed an inebriated journey to Markarth.

Keep following that quest. It gets WAY crazier.

 

[JaseC]

Keep following that quest. It gets WAY crazier.

Good to know.

 

[Mister_Bubbles]

I just got drunk with some Sam bloke and, apparently, managed an inebriated journey to Markarth.

And so it begins...

This was the best thing to happen to me so far in Skyrim. The other end of the map, no Lydia to carry my shit / tank my foes, barely any money, a new city to explore that's vastly different to Whiterun and that sparked off some great quests... Friggin' loved it.

Getting back to Whiterun ended up taking me about 15 hours :lol

 

[subversus]

What is better for melee companions - one-handed weapon + shield or two-handed weapon?