The Falcon and The Winter Soldier |OT| Cap's Best Friends

McCheese said:
Falcon: You calling me black falcon just because I'm black? they don't call you black kid

5 minutes later

Falcon: You telling me they had a black super soldier 50 years ago?

Show is nowhere near as well written as Wandavision, the US military getting the super syrum designed for Captain America stolen then captain trying to get it back (for himself) in some "is America bad?" twist is so fucking obvious they should just release the whole season now and be done with it.
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That was deliberate and made sense to me. Falcon was just being realistic, and yes show was a little racially charged (what isn't) so it made perfect sense to me in this context BLACK soldier was a huge deal.

Also you think the penultimate overtone will be "Is america bad, racial sentiment etc" moving towards the finale ? Lets see.
 
It's not grabbing me, gotta be honest. Feels padded, and the green screen work in episode 2 looked, like, superrrrr cheap.

And yeah, sorry, the racial stuff feels superrrr problematic to me, ultimately distracting from the story. The writers have sold Sam short with becoming Cap since Endgame. Just do it, already.
 
Shubh_C63 said:
That was deliberate and made sense to me. Falcon was just being realistic, and yes show was a little racially charged (what isn't) so it made perfect sense to me in this context BLACK soldier was a huge deal.

Also you think the penultimate overtone will be "Is america bad, racial sentiment etc" moving towards the finale ? Lets see.
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That seems to be the way it's trending

Unable to give a black hero a loan in episode one = modern capitalism / racism is bad
Police profiling falcon and keeping a black super solider secret = highlighting how America has a long history of racism

(Just to make it clear though, I think the above are both very valid points worth addressing - just disappointed the script writing is very ham-fisted in doing so)

I'll extend my prediction to be even more specific - they are going to do a han-solo (literally the same actor!) where you find out the "terrorists" are actually preventing the U.S Military from making some sort of post-blip power-grab with a new super solider army, they'll shove in how the government have decided it's in their interest to side with hydra now or something stupid for extra "they are not just bad, but their nazis!!!!" points as they think the audience is too stupid for nuance.

Captain America will have to make a choice between getting the syrum back for hydra/U.S Gov and therefore getting his own super powers, or doing the right thing and siding with the "terrorists" and destroying it. But he'll fail Frodo style, then Battlestar will, in a axe commercial moment, become the hero and stop 'cap. This then sets up the heroic Battlestar to convince Falcon to take on the mantel of the shield, and that's how the show will end. Bucky won't get a redemption.

I mean just look at the casting, you really think a mixed race ginger haired woman is going to be the villain, and an aryan white male will be the hero, in a 2021 Disney show? 0% chance.
 
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The story not making any sense even in a world with superheroes is my biggest issue with the show.

The whole truck chase/fight scene was horribly contrived simply to have a set piece. And the set piece itself was neither logically consistent, nor entertaining. Let's throw everything under the bus to have an inconclusive fight between c-tier heroes and c-tier villains. zzzzzzzzzzzz.
 
Woo-Fu said:
The story not making any sense even in a world with superheroes is my biggest issue with the show.

The whole truck chase/fight scene was horribly contrived simply to have a set piece. And the set piece itself was neither logically consistent, nor entertaining. Let's throw everything under the bus to have an inconclusive fight between c-tier heroes and c-tier villains. zzzzzzzzzzzz.
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Iron Man, Captain America, Black Widow, and Vision are dead (this is set before WandaVision), Captain Marvel is off planet, and Thor is on a galactic road trip with the Guardians. All that's left are C-list heroes right now.
 
ManaByte said:
Iron Man, Captain America, Black Widow, and Vision are dead (this is set before WandaVision), Captain Marvel is off planet, and Thor is on a galactic road trip with the Guardians. All that's left are C-list heroes right now.
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One correction: this is set AFTER WandaVision. WandaVision was like 3 weeks after everyone came back. This is a few months after in FATWS.
 
The race stuff was always going to be explored.

I have a lot of veterans in my family and they've gone through the same scene as Sam and Bucky did in episode 2 with the cops.

The Isaiah Bradley stuff is taken STRAIGHT from the comics and was inspired by the Tuskegee experiment done on black soldiers that lasted over 30 years ... It wasn't brought to light until someone finally exposed the government in the 70s. It's one of the reasons a lot of black people don't trust doctors or the vaccine, especially when they said black people should get it first. That's just ONE example of doctors/government has done to black folks in this country ...

Ill say this... There's a reason gynecology came so far and it wasn't by dissecting cadavers.
 
DeafTourette said:
The Isaiah Bradley stuff is taken STRAIGHT from the comics and was inspired by the Tuskegee experiment done on black soldiers that lasted over 30 years ... It wasn't brought to light until someone finally exposed the government in the 70s. It's one of the reasons a lot of black people don't trust doctors or the vaccine, especially when they said black people should get it first. That's just ONE example of doctors/government has done to black folks in this country ...
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Beyond directly adapting the comic, introducing Isiah Bradley was also to introduce yet another Young Avenger to the MCU.
 
Don't recall it being spelled out yet but why hasn't John Walker been given any of the super soldier serum? It can't be that difficult to recreate since the bad guys have no issue reproducing it.
 
bitbydeath said:
Don't recall it being spelled out yet but why hasn't John Walker been given any of the super soldier serum? It can't be that difficult to recreate since the bad guys have no issue reproducing it.
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At this point the only person with access to the serum is Ross, and even that was nearly fifteen years ago by the time of 2023 when the show is set.
 
There's another thing... Black soldiers in Isaiah's time often were treated with disrespect and hatred, even after serving the country and defending it. Some were even jailed for defending themselves from harm, whether white or black attackers. The persecution they went through (not all but sizeable portion) would make anyone angry... Like isaiah was. And that's ON TOP of being experimented on by the US government and Hydra.
 
165608764_1215024098915021_1277915895664694879_o.jpg
 
sol_bad said:
Very true but I wouldn't be suprised if there is some reveal in a later episode where he/they does/do have the serum already and he lied about not having super strength.
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My guess is "new" Captain America gets the serum but is "evil" because having a "Captain America" was already a problem internationally for the last decade (before Trump even!) and they'll lean into that a whole lot more. I'm not 100% that there will even be a "Captain America" by the end of this series. It's just 1000x less work for Marvel's marketing department and makes it easier chasing those international dollars. I also expect SHIELD to be a fully international agency at some point.

Like others said I'm sure the terrorists will be portrayed as super sympathetic and the whole thing will be portrayed as morally gray since there was such a fan outpouring for politically morally gray villains like Kilmonger.

But despite all that - I'm weirdly cheering for Bucky to take up the shield even though it's like a 5% chance.
 
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Goro Majima said:
My guess is "new" Captain America gets the serum but is "evil" because having a "Captain America" was already a problem internationally for the last decade (before Trump even!) and they'll lean into that a whole lot more. I'm not 100% that there will even be a "Captain America" by the end of this series. It's just 1000x less work for Marvel's marketing department and makes it easier chasing those international dollars. I also expect SHIELD to be a fully international agency at some point.

Like others said I'm sure the terrorists will be portrayed as super sympathetic and the whole thing will be portrayed as morally gray since there was such a fan outpouring for politically morally gray villains like Kilmonger.

But despite all that - I'm weirdly cheering for Bucky to take up the shield even though it's like a 5% chance.
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SHIELD hasn't been a thing since 2014.
:)

I'm not sure what you mean by having a Captain America was a problem for a decade. Depending on what serum it is will depend on the outcome. Steve and Red Skull took the same serum but turned out very differently based on their personalities. So if John Walker is taking the exact same serum it will again depend on his personality. If it's the serum based on what Blonsky took in Incredible Hulk, well, good luck to him.
LOL

I personally don't think John Walker will turn out to be a bad guy, they played the sympathy card at the start of episode 2. He was a bit more of a dick throughout the episode but not a 100% dick. It's too predictable if he is the bad guy and if anything WandaVision has taught us they aren't going to be predictable with these stories.

I get this feeling that phase 4 of the MCU is the first phase when Kevin Feige really gets to do what he wants to do 100% for the movies and TV ahows. Phase 1 and 2 were held back by Ike Perlmutter and a lot of phase 3 was already in motion by the time Feige got out from under him. Phase 4 he has complete reign over everything.

*EDIT*
I did not sympathise with Kilmonger at all myself. He was a nut job.
And Bucky doesn't feel deserving of the shield.
 
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sol_bad said:
I personally don't think John Walker will turn out to be a bad guy, they played the sympathy card at the start of episode 2. He was a bit more of a dick throughout the episode but not a 100% dick. It's too predictable if he is the bad guy and if anything WandaVision has taught us they aren't going to be predictable with these stories.
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Nah, he'll end up as US Agent. There's a Marvel Legends US Agent figure that is just a black version of his Cap costume from the show.
 
Goro Majima said:
My guess is "new" Captain America gets the serum but is "evil" because having a "Captain America" was already a problem internationally for the last decade (before Trump even!) and they'll lean into that a whole lot more. I'm not 100% that there will even be a "Captain America" by the end of this series. It's just 1000x less work for Marvel's marketing department and makes it easier chasing those international dollars. I also expect SHIELD to be a fully international agency at some point.

Like others said I'm sure the terrorists will be portrayed as super sympathetic and the whole thing will be portrayed as morally gray since there was such a fan outpouring for politically morally gray villains like Kilmonger.

But despite all that - I'm weirdly cheering for Bucky to take up the shield even though it's like a 5% chance.
Click to expand...

It's been basically confirmed that Sam will become the new Captain America. Just like in the comics.

Your predictions don't make sense, though.
 
Zemo:
I better put my mask on before I start kicking ass. Okay, ass has been kicked, the mask is coming off. What even is that?
 
Just started watching this. No idea who falcon is but he kicks ass. Is there a quick backstory? If he's been in the cap movies I ain't watched them. Why does he have an awesome suit?
 
I liked this less than episode 2, which I quite enjoyed. I think I find some of the writing to be a bit clunky, but I can't quite put my finger on it.
The action feels a bit lesser than, in comparison to Winter Soldier, even though it is going for the same "down 'n' dirty" vibe.
 
cormack12 said:
Just started watching this. No idea who falcon is but he kicks ass. Is there a quick backstory? If he's been in the cap movies I ain't watched them. Why does he have an awesome suit?
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Falcon has been around for a long time. Started out in the comics as Captain America's sidekick after he emerged from the ice in modern times. In the comics he joined cap in taking down drug traffickers in I think mexico. Hes worked with him ever since. Has the powers to communicate telepathically with birds and see what they see(this ability isn't present in the movies). A few years back when Steve rogers became unable to continue as Cao he chose sam to take the mantle for about 5 years until he was back in his prime.

In the movies he met Cap while exercising and is an ex military with specialized experience with an experimental "falcon" flight suit. He later helps Cap take down project insight in the winter soldier movie and joins him on his mission to find Bucky. He later becomes a full time member of the Avengers and was one of the ones who got snapped in Infinity War. He was brought back and helped defeat Thanos and thats pretty much up to speed. He uses a drone in the movies called Redwing which is partially based off his animal partner in the comics, an actual Falcon with the same name.

And his suit is awesome because Marvel over time has worked most of their characters up to comic accurate suits, this one evokes his red and blue color scheme from the comics quite a bit. Its one of my favorites right now in the movies
 
cormack12 said:
Just started watching this. No idea who falcon is but he kicks ass. Is there a quick backstory? If he's been in the cap movies I ain't watched them. Why does he have an awesome suit?
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Disney has a show called Legends that offers 10min backstories on all the main characters and what they've done to date, Falcon is ep3.
 
DeafTourette said:
The race stuff was always going to be explored.

I have a lot of veterans in my family and they've gone through the same scene as Sam and Bucky did in episode 2 with the cops.

The Isaiah Bradley stuff is taken STRAIGHT from the comics and was inspired by the Tuskegee experiment done on black soldiers that lasted over 30 years ... It wasn't brought to light until someone finally exposed the government in the 70s. It's one of the reasons a lot of black people don't trust doctors or the vaccine, especially when they said black people should get it first. That's just ONE example of doctors/government has done to black folks in this country ...

Ill say this... There's a reason gynecology came so far and it wasn't by dissecting cadavers.
Click to expand...
No race issues don't exist any more and you are the real racist if you mention it

/s
 
Im glad this last episode they showed that Barnes can still kick ass. I swear since Civil War he's been a shadow of his former badassery.
 
"Interesting episode with Zemo, I wonder what gaf will have to say about the show this week"

*Gaf still talking about the 68 second cop scene*

Laurence-Fishburne.gif
 
JeremyEtcetera said:
"Interesting episode with Zemo, I wonder what gaf will have to say about the show this week"

*Gaf still talking about the 68 second cop scene*
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I was happy to see Zemo back, for me his story ended with a question mark in Civil War. I think a lot of the things that make his character great are a bit contrived at this point. Are we supposed to be rooting for this guy just because he outlived Romanov, Stark, Thanos, Loki, Cap, Ebon Maw, the Collector, and Ego? I feel like Rocket would just play with him for a bit, then put something through his skull and call it a day.
 
KrakenIPA said:
Zemo:
I better put my mask on before I start kicking ass. Okay, ass has been kicked, the mask is coming off. What even is that?
Click to expand...
Regarding this, I assumed he didn't want them to see his face and have a bounty put on his head also, because iirc it's only on the heads of Sam and Bucky.

KrakenIPA said:
I was happy to see Zemo back, for me his story ended with a question mark in Civil War. I think a lot of the things that make his character great are a bit contrived at this point. Are we supposed to be rooting for this guy just because he outlived Romanov, Stark, Thanos, Loki, Cap, Ebon Maw, the Collector, and Ego? I feel like Rocket would just play with him for a bit, then put something through his skull and call it a day.
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I'm expecting the audience to never really know which side he's on the whole show which would turn into multiple back and forth betrayals, because at the end of the day he simply wants super soldiers dead. Also he's decently smart considering he's technically one of the few villains who won in a movie.
 
JeremyEtcetera said:
Regarding this, I assumed he didn't want them to see his face and have a bounty put on his head also, because iirc it's only on the heads of Sam and Bucky.
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Good call. It seemed to be something that happened in that part of the city very quickly, if someone was spotted.

JeremyEtcetera said:
I'm expecting the audience to never really know which side he's on the whole show which would turn into multiple back and forth betrayals, because at the end of the day he simply wants super soldiers dead. Also he's decently smart considering he's technically one of the few villains who won in a movie.
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That's a helluva goal for a man in this series! I like it! Zemo just <has> to be a chess player, doesn't he?
 
DeafTourette said:
Toxic Marvel fans sent death threats to Wyatt Russell's social media (John Walker) and made him delete his SM.

WOW!
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Good. Everyone should delete their social media. The world would be infinitely better and the actor will easily be less stressed in the future by not having to see these mentally deranged retards post trash.

OT: Only just finished episode 2. Not a fan so far. Hopefully the writers get their head out of their ass with this attempt to make falcon look like some victimized poster boy for modern "racism" in the US.
 
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