piratepwnsninja
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10/10
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The Flash S2 |OT2| Jays of Future Past - Tuesdays 8/7c
- Thread starter TheOddOne
- Start date
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10/10
He's not Jay he's Hunter. We've not actually seen Jay at this point just a guy posing as Jay.
Yep I'm the same way. I was never even bothered by the reveal so I like everything involving Zoom except for maybe time remnant shenanigans.
You know what I mean. It's a shit move to think we could have seen first Flash and second Flash kicking asses, and instead making a dumb plot "twist" that basically destroys the whole build-up and probably without satisfying either comic Jay fans nor Hunter/Zoom fans.
Or do you think the reveal was excellent writing?
piratepwnsninja
Member
I don't think we know the entirety of the reveal yet, as it were.
PreFire
Member
So.. When Jay Garrick revealed himself on the Flash, and explains why he's there.. He knows Zoom is insane, and evil.. He also had a different haircut.
But, if this is the time remnant, and he KNOWS Zoom is insane, and evil.. Why even help him, even if he is a future you. Insane people don't admit they're ever crazy, or evil.. In their eyes, it's normal.
He also says he was in a fight with Zoom, then got sucked into the singularity and lost his speed for unknown reasons. I know the writers didn't know they'd have Teddy Sears be Zoom, but there are some plot holes that need to be covered up. What did Zoom do while Jay got sucked up, if that even happened in the first place?
When did Zoom get his time remnant? Was it before the singularity? If so, was the flash from Harry's world just a time remnant to give people false hope? If Zoom can travel back in time, why haven't we seen that?
Did zoom just toss the Jay Garrick helmet into the breach? And if he did, it wasn't the singularity that caused the breach in the first place, it was Thawne trying to return to his time, because that's when the helmet popped out.. which looks like it frightened Thawne.
Here's the clip http://youtu.be/7Kw1t-1LE3o
In the video, we see why Barry has trust issues.
These people better fix Jay Garrick.. And it has better be Teddy Sears who portrays him with a good non-speedforce explanation. CW let us know from the jump that Teddy was Jay.. So if they get a different actor, especially one we haven't seen before, I think I'll be done watching lol..
But, if this is the time remnant, and he KNOWS Zoom is insane, and evil.. Why even help him, even if he is a future you. Insane people don't admit they're ever crazy, or evil.. In their eyes, it's normal.
He also says he was in a fight with Zoom, then got sucked into the singularity and lost his speed for unknown reasons. I know the writers didn't know they'd have Teddy Sears be Zoom, but there are some plot holes that need to be covered up. What did Zoom do while Jay got sucked up, if that even happened in the first place?
When did Zoom get his time remnant? Was it before the singularity? If so, was the flash from Harry's world just a time remnant to give people false hope? If Zoom can travel back in time, why haven't we seen that?
Did zoom just toss the Jay Garrick helmet into the breach? And if he did, it wasn't the singularity that caused the breach in the first place, it was Thawne trying to return to his time, because that's when the helmet popped out.. which looks like it frightened Thawne.
Here's the clip http://youtu.be/7Kw1t-1LE3o
In the video, we see why Barry has trust issues.
These people better fix Jay Garrick.. And it has better be Teddy Sears who portrays him with a good non-speedforce explanation. CW let us know from the jump that Teddy was Jay.. So if they get a different actor, especially one we haven't seen before, I think I'll be done watching lol..
Who am I kidding lol
I don't think any of these arrowverse shows have excellent writing but the reveal didn't bother me in the slightest. Ever since the Hunter Zolomon doppelganger reveal in episode 11 I figured this was a possibility.
Actually I'm not convinced the Hunter we saw throughout the season was his time remnant. I don't think the time remnant came into the picture till they went to earth 2. Also the writers did know that teddy was going to be zoom at the beginning. They said in the writing process the considered having Barry-2 be zoom but then decided it would be hunter before they started shooting.
PreFire
Member
Ah, so do you think the subtle haircut was when the real Jay Garrick was kidnapped? Lol
There were a whole lot of episodes where there was no sign of Jay, then all of a sudden he looks different and has a haircut.
And holy shit, how is Hunter Zolomon in love with Caitlyn? Lol.. Does the time remnant pass on memories (or did Zoom just swoop in and replace time remnant when it came to sexy time?) but not cause any paradoxes when he dies? We need an explanation.
Permanently A
Junior Member
As far as I can understand, Jay = Hunter and the time remnant was only ever used for the fake death. If the time remnant was present the entire season, then it doesn't make any sense for Hunter to be in love with Caitlyn. And if the time remnant was their Jay, he should have been present in all of the Zoom scenes.
I rewatched the scene and after Hunter explains the time remnant shenanigans Iris asks him when he decided to do that and he says after they closed the breaches and went to earth-2. So yeah I'd say you're correct.
PreFire
Member
So when Flash and Cisco went to earth-2, that was the time-remnant with yellow lightning who lost his speed fighting I forget who?
I don't get it, who was Caitlyn running tests on? The actual Zoom? If that's so, wouldn't those tests show he's dying but is also a shit load faster than Barry because his cells would show it (I think).
And if it was Zoom up until the Earth-2 thing, why was his lighting yellow whenever he would take velocity-x?
I really don't want to rewatch the season to see what happens when lol
I don't get it, who was Caitlyn running tests on? The actual Zoom? If that's so, wouldn't those tests show he's dying but is also a shit load faster than Barry because his cells would show it (I think).
And if it was Zoom up until the Earth-2 thing, why was his lighting yellow whenever he would take velocity-x?
I really don't want to rewatch the season to see what happens when lol
Well they say the Velocity turns a speedsters lightning blue when you run fast enough so I'd guess that hunter was intentionally running slower.
Permanently A
Junior Member
1. No, it was Hunter, pretending to lose his speed.
2. She was running tests on Hunter. I don't remember them ever being able to test for speedforce.
3. The blue lightning only triggers when he goes fast enough, as we saw with Trajectory.
The one that was tested was post-Speed Force Hunter because his cells were mutated and degenerating.
Honestly the whole time remnant thing is pretty terrible and I say this as someone who:
1) Loves Hunter Zolomon
2) Loves Zoom
3) Loves Teddy Sears
The writing has let him down and I think they should have went with speed clones instead.
BLOODED_hands
Member
Damn if only Patty was Zoom. If only.
Yeah that first wells episode he pretty much ripped "Jay" apart. They even had a little fist fight and I think Wells might have had the upper hand.
It's not like Hunter would give himself away by beating up Wells. He had to make himself look weak to convince the team he lost his powers.
He gets his payback here anyway. ONE MORE TIME FOLKS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgSnARHU3P0
That music is amazing. Is it in the soundtrack?
He gets his payback here anyway. ONE MORE TIME FOLKS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgSnARHU3P0
That music is amazing. Is it in the soundtrack?
Problem with Zoom is if you know the original Hunter Zolomon, this one seems like a total beta in comparison.
Spoiler:
Even Kreisberg agrees that Harry > Zoom.
Spoiler:
it's a 1v1 sorry
Even Kreisberg agrees that Harry > Zoom.
Rajack
Member
Comic Hunter is a fucking TERROR.
Time Remnant was only around for the Earth-2 episodes.
Really? But I thought he said that the Remnant was hero Jay from the start?
When Iris asked him when he decided to do it he said when they went to earth-2.
Zoom introduced the time remnant when they decided to close the breaches, presumably at the point it was no longer possible for him to switch between worlds unnoticed. It is thus very late on the season that he switched places, which does cause plotholes like Caitlyn not registering any speedforce in a clearly sped-up Zoom. This time remnant is very much like Zoom, so he is clearly just as nuts and crazy. That is why he doesn't reveal the truth. But at the same time, he was clearly prepared to lock Zoom on Earth-2 while he was on Earth-1. Which is either bad writing or a sign that the time remnant was rebelling.
Indeed. The first half of the season simply doesn't make sense in that context.
God's cute sister.
PreFire
Member
If that's true, then how was he with team flash, revealing himself but in what seems to show no time pass, he comes through the breach from earth 2 to drop off a doppelgänger at the same time.
You could say, this happens after he reveals himself.. But would team flash really just let someone from another earth who just introduced himself just up and leave right away? "Brb guys, gotta go to earth 2" .. It seems to be happening at the same time he's in STAR labs
http://youtu.be/7Kw1t-1LE3o Here's the clip. It's toward the end
And like someone said, yes, she's able to test for speedforce. He supposedly had none, and this was before earth 2's visit.
You know the worst part about Zoom, the being who I actually once said that even if R-F was a better character, Zoom was the most frightening being? Freaking falling in love and having parent issues.
I don't have problems with a villain being human (hello Reverse Flash) but when you spend almost a whole season showing how horrifying and a huge monster, anything is probably gonna disappoint. But they even botched his cerial killing side when they had him fall in love.
Even the freaking monster of a villain was affected by the CW wanting love problems in every show. Why couldn't we have someone 100% insane or monsterous with 0 redeeming value? Heck, comic Hunter didn't have any redeeming factors at all (ironically he was just "just trying to help the flash").
Ugh. Just ugh. Zoom you disappoint me. I still think he's bad ass with the mask on though.
I don't have problems with a villain being human (hello Reverse Flash) but when you spend almost a whole season showing how horrifying and a huge monster, anything is probably gonna disappoint. But they even botched his cerial killing side when they had him fall in love.
Even the freaking monster of a villain was affected by the CW wanting love problems in every show. Why couldn't we have someone 100% insane or monsterous with 0 redeeming value? Heck, comic Hunter didn't have any redeeming factors at all (ironically he was just "just trying to help the flash").
Ugh. Just ugh. Zoom you disappoint me. I still think he's bad ass with the mask on though.
So does the Velocity serum make Zoom more crazy or is the schizophrenia only introduced into regular humans who take the serum? I mean, Zoom was already crazy thanks to his upbringing, so I theorize that it was the serum he was constantly taking that created the Jay personality.
It's too bad that they don't play that up in Zoom if the former is the case. They even do the work of setting all that potential up with Trajectory's personality but only use the fact that Velocity gives speedsters blue lightning.
It's too bad that they don't play that up in Zoom if the former is the case. They even do the work of setting all that potential up with Trajectory's personality but only use the fact that Velocity gives speedsters blue lightning.
Reverse Flash was originally going to have a romantic plot line with Caitlin. They smartly decided not to, but there's a sign in the pilot.
The Cretan
Member
@ZeroX03 (I'm not quoting you because of the spoiler)
Comic Zoom is really great, but tv show Zoom is really great, too.
Both of them have good motives (however, comic Zoom's motives are more altruistic), but they chosse the wrong means to their goals.
Comic Zoom has the friend turned villain characteristic, but tv show Zoom has the mystery element.
Both of them can kick and kicked Flash's ass in a cool way.
Both of them have cool voices. Comic Zoom has the broken cassete player characteristic, tv show Zoom has Tony Todd's voice.
Their suits are cool.
So, they are equal in my book.
Comic Zoom is really great, but tv show Zoom is really great, too.
Both of them have good motives (however, comic Zoom's motives are more altruistic), but they chosse the wrong means to their goals.
Comic Zoom has the friend turned villain characteristic, but tv show Zoom has the mystery element.
Both of them can kick and kicked Flash's ass in a cool way.
Both of them have cool voices. Comic Zoom has the broken cassete player characteristic, tv show Zoom has Tony Todd's voice.
Their suits are cool.
So, they are equal in my book.
I think it is part of writing themselves in a corner with Jay being Zoom. They simply had to reconcile this unrelated romance with Zoom. It could only have worked if they played up the creep factor, like Jessica Jones' Purple Man before we get his tragic backstory.
Or Trajectory was already showing signs of schizophrenia and this sped it up.
Yes. There are some holes like that, like him being beaten by Wells and Wells not recognizing the famous serial killer.
That might have been interesting if it were well-written (doubt it would've), rewatching the early episodes has me appreciating the subtlety to his character though.
We dodged a bullet there, eww.
Hows the current run? Kreisbergs run was an awful I love Felicity fest (and people say Guggenheim is bad). Hows Percy doing?
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Gonna be really weird when they work the romantic plotline with Grodd/Caitlin next season.
He'll dress up in a meat costume. Or everyone will look weird while she is thinking she is making out with Leonardo di Caprio.
Jorok Goldblade
Member
But to be fair, the casting Danielle Panabaker caused them to take the character in a completely different direction from when that was the plan. She was also supposed to be more of an Emma Frost personality type.
Seems like Flash will acknowledge the death on Arrow, in its upcoming
episode.
seems to be a strong opponent. Better than Reverb even maybe.
And more Iron Mask teases.
http://tvline.com/2016/05/02/the-fl...aldes-cisco-brother-rupture-iron-mask-reveal/
Black Siren
Rupture
And more Iron Mask teases.
http://tvline.com/2016/05/02/the-fl...aldes-cisco-brother-rupture-iron-mask-reveal/
fallengorn
Bitches love smiley faces
Everyone is saying WOW and WHAT! at the man in the iron mask, only one man can be in the mask.
Earth-2 Vince McMahan
Vince is going to buy STAR Labs and turn it into The Corporation.
ShroudOfFate
Member
So this should probably go in the Arrow S2 thread, but do we have a timeline for these shows?
I'm confused on how Barry still had his powers when he went to the funeral. If they're going to have the cast commenting on the death, then wouldn't he have to get his powers back before they do?
Honestly it's probably just a mess up on the writers part, but it still bothers me.
I'm confused on how Barry still had his powers when he went to the funeral. If they're going to have the cast commenting on the death, then wouldn't he have to get his powers back before they do?
Honestly it's probably just a mess up on the writers part, but it still bothers me.
The timeline will only be clear once all the episodes have aired. It is like how we were struggling to find the moment where the Supergirl cross-over happened for almost a month. If the moment already happened, it could only have been during Versus Zoom.
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