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[Sleeplessnights]

I feel bad for Ferrari because Red Bull are going to use this

In all seriousness, I think F1 cars will lose all of their characteristics and uniqueness if the real thing is close to that photoshop.

 

[Ark]

Saw this on WTF1. Closed cockpit Ferrari F1 concept photoshop.

I think it looks sick and while I would never want the cars to go closed top, cars that look like that wouldn't bother me much.

For some reason I'm getting a cross between F1, LMP & WRC.

That thing looks amazing, I'd love to see F1 like that someday. I'm all for ditching open top, it's not too big of a deal to me.

In all seriousness, I think F1 cars will lose all of their characteristics and uniqueness if the real thing is close to that photoshop.

I disagree. The only reason F1 cars look like they do now is because of the extreme lack of freedom in the technical regulations. I'd much rather see the magical designers have far more freedom in designing the exterior of the car.

F1 cars more or less been the same for the last ten or so years.

 

[a176]

might need those cockpits to keep the dust out

 

[Chris R]

As much as I don't want it to happen (mostly due to how it would alter the appearance of the cars), I think that a closed cockpit will be a reality within another 10-15 years. Just look how close Michael was to losing his head at Abu Dhabi last year. Another driver will be injured, or worse at some point in the future and then people will really begin to think about the possibility.

 

[Big Takeover]

As much as I don't want it to happen (mostly due to how it would alter the appearance of the cars), I think that a closed cockpit will be a reality within another 10-15 years. Just look how close Michael was to losing his head at Abu Dhabi last year. Another driver will be injured, or worse at some point in the future and then people will really begin to think about the possibility.

I totally agree with that. I've always thought it was pretty astonishing that we don't have Henry Surtees like accidents much more frequently. It feels like the odds have been cheated.

 

[Ark]

I totally agree with that. I've always thought it was pretty astonishing that we don't have Henry Surtees like accidents much more frequently. It feels like the odds have been cheated.

The Surtees incident was in a lower Formula though, to be fair. Although I guess luck has certainly played it's part in the last decade or so.

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

Closed cockpits would be so boring.

 

[Ark]

Closed cockpits would be so boring.

Because open cockpits add so much more to the racing element.

Worked wonders for Le Mans.

 

[Adam Scott Aukerman]

The Surtees incident was in a lower Formula though, to be fair.

That incident is something that could just as easily happen in F1 though. It's not like trying to compare a Touring Car or Le Mans crash.

 

[Big Takeover]

I don't think I've seen Peter Windsor's Flying Lap web program mentioned here much. He often times has great guests, and it's usually very entertaining.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wyKJiuTWdk&feature=channel_video_title

This week he had Nige on. Loved hearing him talk about the Piquet pass, and the Berger pass, along with other great moments.

 

[Psychotext]

Just reading some more of the conspiracy theories involving Webber (specifically his car) and Vettel over at Planet F1.

You Webber fans really are a strange bunch.

 

[Ark]

That incident is something that could just as easily happen in F1 though. It's not like trying to compare a Touring Car or Le Mans crash.

Oh I know, I'm just presuming that the wheel tethers in F1 are 'superior' to those of the Surtees crash (I don't remember what formula that was).

Just reading some more of the conspiracy theories involving Webber (specifically his car) and Vettel over at Planet F1.

You Webber fans really are a strange bunch.

Says it all.

 

[Chris R]

Oh I know, I'm just presuming that the wheel tethers in F1 are 'superior' to those of the Surtees crash (I don't remember what formula that was).

The wheel tethers the past two years in F1 have been terrible though. Wheels flying off all the damn time. Didn't they double the number of tethers this year to try and stop that? I just have seen tires actually staying attached to cars this year where before it seemed like every big crash resulted in some loose tires.

 

[Psychotext]

Thing is, we could make tethers that would never come off, but the forces that could put through the chassis would likely rip that to pieces instead. Not to mention if it gets caught in a barrier and whips the car around.

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

Because open cockpits add so much more to the racing element.

Worked wonders for Le Mans.

It looks cooler. It makes the cars unique.

Big part of the F1 identity.

 

[ANDY_098]

Oh I know, I'm just presuming that the wheel tethers in F1 are 'superior' to those of the Surtees crash (I don't remember what formula that was).

The wheel tethers were the same in F2 as F1 in 2009 as far as I can tell. (http://www.fiainstitute.com/media-centre/Documents/insafety_05062009.pdf p21 paragraph 2)

The wheel tethers the past two years in F1 have been terrible though. Wheels flying off all the damn time. Didn't they double the number of tethers this year to try and stop that? I just have seen tires actually staying attached to cars this year where before it seemed like every big crash resulted in some loose tires.

The wheel tethers only work once the wheel is fastened to the car properly, there have been a lot of incidents this year involving pit crews not tightening the wheel properly causing it to come loose.

 

[Chris R]

The wheel tethers only work once the wheel is fastened to the car properly, there have been a lot of incidents this year involving pit crews not tightening the wheel properly causing it to come loose.

I wasn't talking about those incidents. I was talking about actual crashes where the wheel just doesn't stay attached (Alonso in Monaco and Liuzzi in Germany come to mind from last year).

 

[Big Takeover]

Oh I know, I'm just presuming that the wheel tethers in F1 are 'superior' to those of the Surtees crash (I don't remember what formula that was).

Surtees was just my example. A closed cockpit could obviously protect drivers from all types of debris.

 

[AndyD]

Would a cockpit even protect from a whole wheel flying though? I imagine it would work to prevent something like the Massa spring accident, but I imagine a whole wheel has so much mass that it would crush through a cockpit.

 

[ANDY_098]

Would a cockpit even protect from a whole wheel flying though? I imagine it would work to prevent something like the Massa spring accident, but I imagine a whole wheel has so much mass that it would crush through a cockpit.

The FIA did a few tests firing a wheel at a canopy without breaking it. http://vimeo.com/26098946

 

[Adam Scott Aukerman]

Would a cockpit even protect from a whole wheel flying though? I imagine it would work to prevent something like the Massa spring accident, but I imagine a whole wheel has so much mass that it would crush through a cockpit.

The FIA have already tested such a scenario: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enECKsMwVkU

Edit: Blast!

 

[StoOgE]

It's also not as though Massa didn't have a horrible crash involving something bouncing off his head.

 

[ANDY_098]

Someone asked a few days ago about why the nose heights were changing, I found this on the FIA Institute site about it.

Understanding the reasons why Formula One open-wheeled cars tend to launch into the air upon impact is the main goal of this research group. To aid the project, BMW provided an F-BMW car and spare parts, Bridgestone provided tyres, F1 teams Ferrari and Toyota supplied nosecones and Red Bull and Toyota provided gearboxes and carbon suspension parts.

A number of parameters defining the potential for launch were outlined. In support of this work, computer simulation of nose-to-wheel contacts was conducted by the F1 teams in accordance with FIA Institute requirements. Nose height was found to be the dominant factor. Further investigation into the effects of nose height is underway.

 

[brotkasten]

Saw this on WTF1. Closed cockpit Ferrari F1 concept mock up.

I think it looks sick and while I would never want the cars to go closed top, cars that look like that wouldn't bother me much.

I ... like it? I'm not entirely sure, but it looks kinda futuristic, which always gets a thumbs up from me. Also, Massa should be safe in that car.

 

[Goldrusher]

That's not even an F1 car, unless you're getting rid of the fuel tank and putting the driver on top of the engine.

 

[Omiee]

I feel bad for Ferrari because Red Bull are going to use this

In all seriousness, I think F1 cars will lose all of their characteristics and uniqueness if the real thing is close to that photoshop.

this looks so good, and that ferrari screen looks good as well.

 

[AndyD]

this looks so good, and that ferrari screen looks good as well.

I think removing the lights and cowls on the front wings of the RB (like the Ferrari) but keeping the cockpit is a viable solution long term if that is where F1 is headed. The cars are not as good looking as the classics, but they are nice.

 

[brotkasten]

this looks so good, and that ferrari screen looks good as well.

The Red Bull is not only really ugly, it's also literally impossible to drive. It's a fan car with turbo-charged V8 (I think).

After the evaluation of the technology going into the car, the X2010 was redesigned incorporating refinement advice from Newey. With its low air resistance achieved through its smooth glass canopy and full cowling over the tyres, and the downforce gained from the low speed range using the fans as well as in the high speed range through the front and rear wings and the rear diffuser, the car ultimately achieved a theoretical maximum speed of 500 km/h, a weight of 545 kg, and a maximum lateral G force exceeding 8G. This spec is virtually at the very limit of what a normal human body can withstand.[citation needed] Modern fighter jets are usually electronically limited to 9G.

I'd still love to see it on a track.

 

[Omiee]

I think removing the lights and cowls on the front wings of the RB (like the Ferrari) but keeping the cockpit is a viable solution long term if that is where F1 is headed. The cars are not as good looking as the classics, but they are nice.

yeah i would love to watch f1 in cars like that ferrari render.

i really love the look of this years cars, but damnn that ferrari looks goooood!!

finally got home and watching practice 1 now.

 

[Big Takeover]

I'd accept the canopy of the X1 in a heartbeat. The Ferrari has a roof and a-pillars. I'm not terribly keen on that.

 

[Shaneus]

I ... like it? I'm not entirely sure, but it looks kinda futuristic, which always gets a thumbs up from me. Also, Massa should be safe in that car.

Not from Smedley.

 

[Omiee]

The Red Bull is not only really ugly, it's also literally impossible to drive. It's a fan car with turbo-charged V8 (I think).

I'd still love to see it on a track.

like said in the post above, remove the lights and those big bumps on the side, and it could actually look really good

 

[AndyD]

They could even bring the nose down, like the 90s cars. But a well made cockpit would not look too bad. As Omiee said, the Ferrari roof is one thing, the RB cockpit quite another. But you have to have those open front wheels.

 

[S. L.]

The Red Bull is not only really ugly, it's also literally impossible to drive. It's a fan car with turbo-charged V8 (I think).

I'd still love to see it on a track.

pfff that old slowpoke 2010 spec,

the 2011 spec has some aero updates ;P
http://us.gran-turismo.com/us/news/d6067.html

 

[Xun]

I think a mixture between that Ferrari concept and the X2010 is what we're likely to see if cockpits do happen.

 

[brotkasten]

I think a mixture between that Ferrari concept and the X2010 is what we're likely to see if cockpits do happen.

But the X2010 cockpit looks horrible. It's just really, really bad. I don't want this in F1!

 

[Shaneus]

But the X2010 cockpit looks horrible. It's just really, really bad. I don't want this in F1!

And besides, Vettel already has experience in it. We don't want to give him another advantage.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Meh, canopies are nothing new in F1. They've been tried out before in different eras of F1 and haven't really been viable due to technological restraints. They should be entirely possible in this day and age.

F2 Protos-Cosworth

Brabham BT24

Oh, and to everyone who thinks F1 should be solely open cockpit/wheeled; there are may examples of F1 cars that fly in the face of that philosophy.

54 Merc driven by Fangio.

Connaught Type B

Maserati 250F

Cooper T51

Lancia-Ferrari D50A

 

[RomanticHeroX]

The fact that only one of those photos is in color should be telling. So much crazy stuff has been tried in F1 that you could point to prior cars when talking about very many things. F1 has sorted itself out to be open wheel, open cockpit, and that's the image that defines the sport. I see a return to canopies and covered wheels as likely as a return to front engine cars or 4WD.

The most persuasive reason, at least for an argument against covered cockpits, is that it would be bad from a commercial standpoint. What F1 is ultimately sold on is the drivers and the heroics of the best racers in the world. If you cover them up you would absolutely lose that. Do you think most people would've realized the brilliance of what Senna did if they couldn't see him making the car dance?

Besides that, F1 is not and has never been about building the fastest car, period. It's about building the best car within the regulations, that everyone works from. That's why the sport is named for the formula from which they work. The regulations don't hold designers back, they're what makes the technical evolution of the sport interesting. Nobody doubts that a faster car would be the result of covering the wheels and cockpit, but that wouldn't be an F1 car.

 

[Gor@n]

Anyone got a reliable stream for upcoming FP3? Tried to find one for FP1 and FP2 but alot are poor quality, not in english, or the aspect ratio is wrong. Remember watching a HD stream on Justin.tv but can't find it anymore. Any help??

 

[Edmond Dantès]

The fact that only one of those photos is in color should be telling. So much crazy stuff has been tried in F1 that you could point to prior cars when talking about very many things. F1 has sorted itself out to be open wheel, open cockpit, and that's the image that defines the sport. I see a return to canopies and covered wheels as likely as a return to front engine cars or 4WD.

The most persuasive reason, at least for an argument against covered cockpits, is that it would be bad from a commercial standpoint. What F1 is ultimately sold on is the drivers and the heroics of the best racers in the world. If you cover them up you would absolutely lose that. Do you think most people would've realized the brilliance of what Senna did if they couldn't see him making the car dance?

Besides that, F1 is not and has never been about building the fastest car, period. It's about building the best car within the regulations, that everyone works from. That's why the sport is named for the formula from which they work. The regulations don't hold designers back, they're what makes the technical evolution of the sport interesting. Nobody doubts that a faster car would be the result of covering the wheels and cockpit, but that wouldn't be an F1 car.

The canopies wouldn't be blacked out, they'd be perfectly transparent and glare proof. The drivers would be perfectly visible and if anything, it would allow for open faced helmets al a the WRC and LMP endurance racing.

This kind of canopy on a turbo car (MP4/4), without the need for an airbox would give a fantastic view of the driver working miracles in the cockpit.

 

[Chris R]

The most persuasive reason, at least for an argument against covered cockpits, is that it would be bad from a commercial standpoint. What F1 is ultimately sold on is the drivers and the heroics of the best racers in the world. If you cover them up you would absolutely lose that. Do you think most people would've realized the brilliance of what Senna did if they couldn't see him making the car dance?

Why wouldn't they be able to see through a perfectly clear canopy?

And I totally didn't think about the fact that a canopy would allow for open face helmets... Shiiiiiiiiiiit that almost makes me want to get behind them 100% heh.

 

[Timbuktu]

I'd thought a reason against closed cockpits would be fire and the likely of a driver being trapped.

Btw
Did anyone watch this anime when they were a kid?

 

[Psychotext]

Would be very, very cool to see the look on their faces. It's one thing to see a driver gesturing that another is a wanker, it's another to see their face a twisted mask of pure anger.

 

[RomanticHeroX]

When I think of a closed cockpit F1 car I'm thinking of something more along the lines of LMP cars, like a more narrow R18. I'd also imagine open helmets would still be banned for safety reasons.

 

[dubc35]

I'd thought a reason against closed cockpits would be fire and the likely of a driver being trapped.

Allan McNish, and possibly other Audi drivers, voiced concern about being about to get out of the R18 if there was a fire. Luckily Allan was able to get out of the wreck at Le Mans this year.

 

[Chris R]

I imagine that the Webber fans would be behind an open face helmet as well so they could just watch his chin cruise around the circuit for the entire race.

 

[Cereal KiIIer]

I don't mind canopies but I want them with election seats.

 

[RomanticHeroX]

I don't mind canopies but I want them with election seats.

Go all the way and push a button to drop an oil slick. It wouldn't be any more gimmicky than DRS.

Edit - This maybe sounds more dickish than I intended. I don't like the idea of shrouding the cockpit or wheels, but if we start heading to Speed Racer territory I'm all for it.

 

[Xun]

Alright time to head to bed, see you all in the morning for the qualifying!