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The Formula 1 2012 Season |OT2| WHY AREN'T YOU WATCHING THIS SEASON?!

Omiee

Member
I dont think Alonso could have challanged vettel for the win if he did not get stuck fighting the mclarens and webber. Its only when webber lost his kers that alonso got to overtake him.

Will be interesting to see which upgrades will work better in abu dhabi, the ones ferrari are bringing or the ones RBR are.
 

Akira

Member
I don't really follow F1 much (more of a football/tennis guy), but I just saw a video on Youtube of Sauber's Kobayashi and Perez. If you combined their faces, accents, and mannerisms you would pretty much get Rafael Nadal.
 
I wonder if Mclaren are pretty much out of competing for podiums now as I'm assuming they'll want to be switching to testing next year's parts rather than new ones for this year.

They only have a really slim shot at the constructor's title and obviously no chance of the driver's.
 
Just realized that I coincidentally scheduled a 4 day weekend vacation the same weekend as the American Grand Prix.

Luckily tickets seem to be sold out now so I don't make a foolish impulse decision to spend thousands of dollars to travel across the country and watch an F1 race.
 

Omiee

Member
I was reading up on the after race interview and it got me thinking about Webber. It has to suck to be him for the past few years.

Sure he won a few races and was on quit some podiums and was realistically fighting for the WDC in 2010. But it has to be demoralizing to see your team mate going for his third WDC and dominating from the start and you cant even come close. And when you actually come close you get horner on your team radio shouting maintain the gap.

If i was in his place i would actually freaking hate it.

But after all the shit teams he has been on its nice to be able to fight for podiums i guess.
 
As much as the Webber fans would disagree, if he was leading the championship he'd never be told to maintain the gap or let Vettel past. At the end of the day he's just never been able to keep pace with Vettel over an entire season, going right back to when Vettel joined in 2008.

You could argue that's down to the team sabotaging him (lol), though in reality it's more likely that Vettel just has more input on the development of the car. Who knows if that's because he spends more time on that sort of thing (he's well known for being all about the details) or because the team hates Webber and doesn't want to pay any attention to his requests (lol).

Now Massa, there's someone who should feel shitty, because he basically only manages to compete for a couple of races a year. At least Webber keeps Vettel honest on most weekends.
 

Omiee

Member
As much as the Webber fans would disagree, if he was leading the championship he'd never be told to maintain the gap or let Vettel past. At the end of the day he's just never been able to keep pace with Vettel over an entire season, going right back to when Vettel joined in 2008.

You could argue that's down to the team sabotaging him (lol), though in reality it's more likely that Vettel just has more input on the development of the car. Who knows if that's because he spends more time on that sort of thing (he's well known for being all about the details) or because the team hates Webber and doesn't want to pay any attention to his requests (lol).

Now Massa, there's someone who should feel shitty, because he basically only manages to compete for a couple of races a year. At least Webber keeps Vettel honest on most weekends.

Thats what i wanted to post lol. Massa is actually somebody who does not even deserve that seat and gets no petty from me at all. Webber on the other hand is a driver who could actually fight for wins and contend for the title. He even showed some spirit this year before Vettel got his form back.

Back in 2010 he lost the championship because the team refused to back him up and let both drivers fight each other. Wins in brazil and japan gave vettel his title chances back.

Vettel is known to spend a lot of time on details etc. I remember pirelli saying he was actually the only driver who visited their factory to learn more about the new tires etc.

Man i am so curious how vettel would do in a team like ferrari. They dont have the fastest car and he would have alonso as his team mate. On the other hand Webber is on par with alonso some times ( read it again some times not all the times ) and Vettel basically made him his massa.




Who here remembers vettel's time with torro rosso. He really caught my time back than. Or his 2008 season where he overtook hamilton and that almost ment massa would have been champion if glock did not fuck it all up. That would have been a massive troll.

Anybody ever read this:

Like Schumacher, Vettel grew up in a small town with an everyday background—Schumacher's father a bricklayer and Vettel's a carpenter. Both had their first taste of racing at the Kerpen karting track near Cologne, not far from the Nürburgring. Vettel began driving in his garden lapping the garden many times, not even stopping to eat or shower, before he could legally take to the roads, and said his passion for cars was nurtured by watching Schumacher compete. He did not know that he would actually get to race his hero.[80]
Both Schumacher and Vettel impressed in their debut races, both of which took place in the middle of a Formula One season, and both drivers qualified seventh. Neither would ever drive for their debut teams again. Instead, both immediately joined with non-manufacturer teams founded upon sales of non-automobile-related products. Approximately a year after joining their new teams, as underdogs they would stun the Formula One world by winning races in cars few believed capable of winning. They would both add extra victories to their names in the following season before their cars' performance improved. In their third full Formula One season and both driving cars numbered 5, both won their first World Drivers' Championship, at which point both drivers had 10 Grand Prix wins on their records. Both drivers took the title at the final round of the season. Vettel became the youngest ever driver to win the World Drivers' Championship, while Schumacher, by a little over a week, only narrowly missed out on achieving the very same feat. Both drivers won their non-manufacturer teams' maiden World Drivers' Championship as well as World Constructors' Championship.
 
Thats what i wanted to post lol. Massa is actually somebody who does not even deserve that seat and gets no petty from me at all. Webber on the other hand is a driver who could actually fight for wins and contend for the title. He even showed some spirit this year before Vettel got his form back.

Massa got closer to a WC than Webber ever will(& Massa was a clear Number 2 when Ferrari was clearly the best car, Webber can't even claim that).
 

DD

Member
The funny thing is that Massa managed to keep Raikkonen behind him through all the race, even when it was clear that he was saving fuel.

But hey, all love to Raikkonen!
 

Omiee

Member
I watched the race until lap 36, then went to sleep. 36 laps of nothing for me. Don't get me started on Mercedes :p

They managed to close the gap a bit this year but their second part of the year has been awfull to be honest.

Dont know what lewis was thinking, no way he could be contending for the title next year.

Maybe in 2014 with the new regulations etc.
 

Omiee

Member
I wonder how he will cope. If he's sensible he's already written next year off (aside from maybe a few podiums) and is looking to 2014.

I agree, thats the best he could do for next year. Guy is young he should just try and help them develop the car more and they could go for a push during the 2014 season.
 

McNum

Member
I see a little logic in what Hamilton is up to, maybe. He's trying to pull a Schumacher. Mercedes is a young team, but one with potential to be good. If Lewis checks in while the team is young and drives the hell out of the 2013 car, pulling in results it really shouldn't be able to, which is not an unreasonable guess, then he pretty much has his own team that can build a 2014 car and beyond the the exact specifications that he wants and needs to win races.

It's a risky gamble, but I do see where he might be coming from with it. It'll be interesting to see if it pays off.
 
Man silverstone battle between him and alonso is still in my memory.
Those two gave a master class in competitive racing in one of the highest forms of motorsport... without crashing! and on lap one in india today it was the same thing, button, hamilton and alonso all on the very edge but keeping it clean, good actual racing.
 

Hammer24

Banned
Sorry, I haven´t been able to finish the conversation on Saturday!
Known budgets:
- RBR 250M $
- Fer 200M $, but its estimated with the end of season push they are doing right now to go up by an unplanned 20-30M $
- Merc 100M $
McL is not really known, but estimated at 120-130M $.
- Sauber 40-50M $ (in part depending on performance based boni by sponsors)
Thats all I have.
 

Shaneus

Member
Sorry, I haven´t been able to finish the conversation on Saturday!
Known budgets:
- RBR 250M $
- Fer 200M $, but its estimated with the end of season push they are doing right now to go up by an unplanned 20-30M $
- Merc 100M $
McL is not really known, but estimated at 120-130M $.
- Sauber 40-50M $ (in part depending on performance based boni by sponsors)
Thats all I have.
Is that counting driver's salaries as well, or just staff, development and equipment (and travel, I guess) costs?
 

Hammer24

Banned
Is that counting driver's salaries as well, or just staff, development and equipment (and travel, I guess) costs?

Total team budgets including driver salaries*.
*(Some pay drivers don´t count, as they get the money directly from their sponsor and not via the sponsor->team->driver route)
 

duckroll

Member
Thats what i wanted to post lol. Massa is actually somebody who does not even deserve that seat and gets no petty from me at all. Webber on the other hand is a driver who could actually fight for wins and contend for the title. He even showed some spirit this year before Vettel got his form back.

I'm not sure if I can fully agree there. Massa has motivation problems, yes, but he was closer to winning a championship than Webber ever was. Remember the drama when Hamilton snatched the championship from him on the final corner of the final lap of the final race of the season? Sad times. :(
 

Massa

Member
Yeah, Massa's basically been repeatedly kicked in the balls by his team ever since Kimi was fired and Alonso took over Ferrari. Combine a driver trying to rebuild his confidence after a major injury with a car and tires that are completely opposite to his driving style and it's not a pretty combination, as we saw from 2010 until the first half of this year.

I think people usually ignore that Alonso didn't just become a driver at Ferrari. He brought over quite a few technical people with him and they're working 100% for him. Ferrari's number 2 seat is absolutely the worst in F1, it hadn't been this bad ever since the Schummy era when Barrichello would get last-year's model or had to test unreliable parts or worse.

Speaking of Massa, his move this weekend to let Kimi through so he could use DRS was pretty ingenious I thought. Did the commentators catch that over there in Europe?
 

bbyybb

CGI bullshit is the death knell of cinema
Sorry, I haven´t been able to finish the conversation on Saturday!
Known budgets:
- RBR 250M $
- Fer 200M $, but its estimated with the end of season push they are doing right now to go up by an unplanned 20-30M $
- Merc 100M $
McL is not really known, but estimated at 120-130M $.
- Sauber 40-50M $ (in part depending on performance based boni by sponsors)
Thats all I have.

If those budgets are accurate, then some of the teams have spent quite alot less than they did in 2011.

Ref: http://www.yallaf1.com/2012/10/24/red-bull-spent-over-300-million-in-quest-for-2011-f1-world-title/
 

Hammer24

Banned
BTW, WEB has a clause in his contract, that when the other driver is a certain amount of points ahead of him, he HAS to drive for him. Looks like this point treshold was reached yesterday, and thats why it cam close to an eclat yesterday.
 
BTW, WEB has a clause in his contract, that when the other driver is a certain amount of points ahead of him, he HAS to drive for him. Looks like this point treshold was reached yesterday, and thats why it cam close to an eclat yesterday.
eclat?

That aside, I genuinely see Webber inventing problems so as to let Alonso past if he's "forced" to help Vettel. I really don't think he likes him.
 
When they had a similar car to everyone, everyone else was crashing out, getting punctures or suffering mechanical failures. He's got a very short memory.
 

Shaneus

Member
I'm not sure if I can fully agree there. Massa has motivation problems, yes, but he was closer to winning a championship than Webber ever was. Remember the drama when Hamilton snatched the championship from him on the final corner of the final lap of the final race of the season? Sad times. :(
Closer to winning a championship than Webber ever was? Don't remember 2010?

Massa's WDC may have been closer, but not by a lot at all.
 

Shaneus

Member
I'm not sure why Webs would walk out on a press conference if Vettel said that. I think I'm completely missing the gist, though.
 
Yeah, Massa's basically been repeatedly kicked in the balls by his team ever since Kimi was fired and Alonso took over Ferrari. Combine a driver trying to rebuild his confidence after a major injury with a car and tires that are completely opposite to his driving style and it's not a pretty combination, as we saw from 2010 until the first half of this year.

I think people usually ignore that Alonso didn't just become a driver at Ferrari. He brought over quite a few technical people with him and they're working 100% for him. Ferrari's number 2 seat is absolutely the worst in F1, it hadn't been this bad ever since the Schummy era when Barrichello would get last-year's model or had to test unreliable parts or worse.

Speaking of Massa, his move this weekend to let Kimi through so he could use DRS was pretty ingenious I thought. Did the commentators catch that over there in Europe?

I don't think it's as bad as the Schummy days, Massa just hasn't got the ability to compete with Alonso, just look at the first few races of the season with similar cars and Massa had scored no points at all. He's got better as the season is drawing to a close, and that's probably because the Ferrari is much better to drive compared to the start.
 

DD

Member
While there is little talk from other teams but many updates. We have a lot of talk but very little updates.

We need to improve relative to Red Bull, but to do what they have done is impossible.

"We cannot aspire to having the fastest car,” added Alonso.

Words are useless. We talk a lot of Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays about new pieces we bring to each track, but there have been many Fridays on which the words were for nothing.”

Once again, in the lead-up to this weekend’s race, much has been reported about Ferrari’s new package. “We’ll see if the words are true or not,” Alonso is quoted by Italy’s Autosprint.

“(But) for five or six races we have not seen anything positive.”


http://www.inautonews.com/ferrari-all-talk-and-no-updates-alonso#.UI5yCmdDqt8

What an utter whiny bitch...
 

Massa

Member
I don't think it's as bad as the Schummy days, Massa just hasn't got the ability to compete with Alonso, just look at the first few races of the season with similar cars and Massa had scored no points at all. He's got better as the season is drawing to a close, and that's probably because the Ferrari is much better to drive compared to the start.

I don't think it's as bad as Schummy's days either, what I meant to say is that I hadn't seen this type of blatant favoritism since those days. But what Ferrari did to Barrichello was absolutely disgusting and will be hard to top in the sport.

As far as Massa I don't think it's just a matter of the car getting better but the car fitting better with his personal driving style. For example the McLaren from a few races earlier this year favored Hamilton's style so much over Button's that he was considerably faster and the gap was even larger than Alonso vs Massa. The difference in that case is that Button has a team that supports him and quickly worked with him to fix the issue. Ferrari doesn't work like that.
 
What an utter whiny bitch...

What's with the hate, where does it indicate that he's being a whiny bitch?

He's right, the last time they had a car fast enough was Monza, five races ago, and then you would have to go all the way back to Germany where they were able to get pole.

Since moving to Ferrari they've failed to deliver a competitive car for the first half of 2010, the whole of 2011 and again for most of 2012. Just not good enough.
 

Ark

Member
Closer to winning a championship than Webber ever was? Don't remember 2010?

Massa's WDC may have been closer, but not by a lot at all.

Wait, what? Massa won the WDC for about 20 seconds (and also in the rain), Webber lost it two races before the end of the season. Webber was also one of five people who could have taken the title at Abu Dhabi; Brazil '08 was a two-horse race.

What an utter whiny bitch...

When the team that has delivered the most titles this century fails to deliver the best car to the best driver on a consistent basis, I'd say that's justified cause for whining.
 
On the press?
I bet you also thought he was a whiny bitch, when he said that the win in Malaysia didn't change anything and that they still weren't competitive. Alonso was always pretty honest and humble this year. Maybe you should read some of those interviews. But that would be too much to ask, I know.
 
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