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The Formula 1 2012 Season |OT2| WHY AREN'T YOU WATCHING THIS SEASON?!

C

Chris R

Member
Myoclonic Jerk said:
Personality ofcourse. But even when it comes to his skills I don't agree with who talks about his skills like he's the best in the sport because he's not. If crappy massa was able to outpace him in the last 4-5 races then he's only good but not how Ferrari or even Alonso himslef wants you to believe

I'd rank him below Kimi, Hamilton, and vettel .

The crappiest in terms of skills is button of course
Click to expand...

Ok, just making sure you had Button on the bottom when it came to active WDC driving skill.
 
Myoclonic Jerk

Myoclonic Jerk

Member
KillerMan91 said:
Well Massa also outpaced Kimi in 2008... Massa is better than people give him credit for. It's just that after the accident he has been shit.
Click to expand...

I have a different theory for the underlined, but I agree with you. Even the shit after-accident-Massa was able to beat Alonso consistently when the car was to his liking so that means Alonso is not thesuper human everyone wants us to believe. Isn't he the one who can drive any car? no matter if it suits him or not? always extracting "120%" of the car?


rhfb said:
Ok, just making sure you had Button on the bottom when it came to active WDC driving skill.
Click to expand...

lol .. Checkout this great battle from 2004 - http://www.gpupdate.net/en/videos/2842/jenson-button-vs-fernando-alonso-germany-2004/

Alonso vs Button. Why was he holding his head towards the end of the video?
 
B

brotkasten

Member
Massa said:
The point is not whether he's in that league or not. You just don't say shit like that about yourself.
Click to expand...

I completely agree, but it seems to need a huge ego like that, after losing the third WDC by few points. How else could you keep going?

Myoclonic Jerk said:
I have a different theory for the underlined, but I agree with you. Even the shit after-accident-Massa was able to beat Alonso consistently when the car was to his liking so that means Alonso is not thesuper human everyone wants us to believe. Isn't he the one who can drive any car? no matter if it suits him or not? always extracting "120%" of the car?
Click to expand...

Should we go back to the first 6 or so races, where the car was still shit and the point difference between Massa and Alonso was massive? Something like 100 vs 10 points? You know, the part of the season where everyone called for Massa's head.
 
Myoclonic Jerk

Myoclonic Jerk

Member
brotkasten said:
Should we go back to the first 6 or so races, where the car was still shit and the point difference between Massa and Alonso was massive? Something like 100 vs 10 points? You know, the part of the season where everyone called for Massa's head.
Click to expand...

No you should not, because if he was able to drive that shit of a car to "where it doesn't belong" he should take this car even further, and be consistently faster than Massa which he wasn't.

Shouldn't this bust the myth of Alonso being the ultimate car developer as well? If he was, then the development of the car should suit him better, just in case you wanted to argue that the new updates suited Massa more

The Ferrari Alonso is a product of Santander, he's their marketing hero. Why do you think Ferrari paid Kimi $50m not to drive for them? Don't tell me performance, because that's absurd. We've seen Massa perform like shit since he came back and he's still there for his 4th year next year while performing like an ass..
 
B

brotkasten

Member
Myoclonic Jerk said:
No you should not, because if he was able to drive that shit of a car to "where it doesn't belong" he should take this car even further, and be consistently faster than Massa which he wasn't.
Click to expand...

Massa was in what? The last 4 weekends faster than Alonso and out-qualified him 3 times in the entire season (including the shenanigans during the Italian GP)? Out of 20 races? And that is not consistent for you? I wish you were joking, but you're not.

Following the mid-season break, Ferrari's Felipe Massa was in fourteenth place in the championship, 139 points behind team-mate and championship leader Fernando Alonso.
Click to expand...

Point difference at the end of the season? 155 points.

Not consistently faster. Right.
 
Myoclonic Jerk

Myoclonic Jerk

Member
brotkasten said:
Massa was in what? The last 4 weekends faster than Alonso and out-qualified him 3 times in the entire season (including the shenanigans during the Italian GP)? Out of 20 races? And that is not consistent for you? I wish you were joking, but you're not.



Point difference at the end of the season? 155 points.

Not consistently faster. Right.
Click to expand...

How would you explain Massa's performance in the last races then? I'd say because Ferrari paid some attention to him for a change, just like Kimi after Massa's accident and we all know how that panned out.

Unless you're saying Alonso was cracking under pressure? The way Alonso raves on how he extracts 120% of the car (except when Massa is above him), and how the car was shit, for Massa to outperform him not only in race trim where you can argue that strategy/luck..etc played into it, but even in qualifying. That surely says something.

EDIT: and please don't talk about points only, they are not a fair representation of speed. We are not talking about racecraft here, even as a Kimi fan I'd say that Grosjean is faster in qualy.. I'm too arsed to check how many points Grosjean got, but shit less than 207 that Kimi managed, that still doesn't prove that Kimi is a faster driver
 
W

Wax Free Vanilla

Member
Rolex, the leading luxury watchmaking brand and a pioneer of sports sponsorship, will become a major long-term partner of Formula 1 from 2013 as Official Timekeeper and Official Timepiece. This reinforces Rolex’s commitment to motor racing and its support of global sport at the very highest level.
Click to expand...

Good.

No more shitty LG logo shitting up my screen


SKY are doing 12 season reviews, one for each team
 
B

brotkasten

Member
Myoclonic Jerk said:
How would you explain Massa's performance in the last races then? I'd say because Ferrari paid some attention to him for a change, just like Kimi after Massa's accident and we all know how that panned out.

Unless you're saying Alonso was cracking under pressure? The way Alonso raves on how he extracts 120% of the car (except when Massa is above him), and how the car was shit, for Massa to outperform him not only in race trim where you can argue that strategy/luck..etc played into it, but even in qualifying. That surely says something.

EDIT: and please don't talk about points only, they are not a fair representation of speed. We are not talking about racecraft here, even as a Kimi fan I'd say that Grosjean is faster in qualy.. I'm too arsed to check how many points Grosjean got, but shit less than 207 that Kimi managed, that still doesn't prove that Kimi is a faster driver
Click to expand...

It's not just points, but I also mentioned qualifying.

Felipe Massa is not my favorite driver and I shit on him whenever he gives me the chance, but I'm still sane enough to admit when he delivers a good performance, because it makes me happy for the team. Everyone can read that up. Massa almost winning the title is just as baffling for me as the fact that Jenson Button won one title and I know you agree with me on Button at least. But even back then I rooted for him and I was absolutely gutted when he lost it after crossing the line.

What I'm trying to say, is that I'm not a blind Massa hater. But I honestly can't believe that we're still discussing whether Alonso got a better pace and race craft than Massa or not. Like it's even a debate. It's not and the results speak for it.

Next season might be different, I don't know. Maybe Massa is truly back and will give Alonso one hell of a competition (just to let him pass during the race, lol).
 
Business

Business

Member
Myoclonic Jerk your hatred for Alonso is quite amusing. Alonso has been consistently faster than Massa while in Ferrari, both in races and in qualify, one would think it's obvious.
 
P

pappe

Member
SpeedOfNuts said:
Myoclonic Jerk your hatred for Alonso is quite amusing. Alonso has been consistently faster than Massa while in Ferrari, both in races and in qualify, one would think it's obvious.
Click to expand...

Bu.. but Massa was faster than Alonso in 2 races! He is clearly better than Alonso.
 
Myoclonic Jerk

Myoclonic Jerk

Member
Wax Free Vanilla said:
Good.

No more shitty LG logo shitting up my screen


SKY are doing 12 season reviews, one for each team
Click to expand...

Will be a nice change. Will add quality to the screen ;)

brotkasten said:
It's not just points, but I also mentioned qualifying.

Felipe Massa is not my favorite driver and I shit on him whenever he gives me the chance, but I'm still sane enough to admit when he delivers a good performance, because it makes me happy for the team. Everyone can read that up. Massa almost winning the title is just as baffling for me as the fact that Jenson Button won one title and I know you agree with me on Button at least. But even back then I rooted for him and I was absolutely gutted when he lost it after crossing the line.

What I'm trying to say, is that I'm not a blind Massa hater. But I honestly can't believe that we're still discussing whether Alonso got a better pace and race craft than Massa or not. Like it's even a debate. It's not and the results speak for it.

Next season might be different, I don't know. Maybe Massa is truly back and will give Alonso one hell of a competition (just to let him pass during the race, lol).
Click to expand...

I never said Alonso is not better, and maybe even much better than Massa. What I'm saying is that Alonso might not be as good as what results show us, there's so much behind the scene that as F1 fans we should not ignore.

Just to set the record straight: Alonso is a faster and a better driver than Massa. But was Massa given a fair chance and opportunity to take the challenge up to him? I highly doubt it

SpeedOfNuts said:
Myoclonic Jerk your hatred for Alonso is quite amusing. Alonso has been consistently faster than Massa while in Ferrari, both in races and in qualify, one would think it's obvious.
Click to expand...

Of course I hate Alonso, he's the only thing that kept me watching F1 after Kimi left. rooting against him of course and to keep the "last Ferrari WDC" title with the Iceman ;)

And I think I've already answered the second part of your reply above :)
 
K

kharma45

Member
Kobayashi has just posted on Twitter "もう焼き芋の季節やん！" which Google Translate says means Yan 焼き芋 another season!"

I used Bing too just to double check and I got "Another seasonal sweet potato and I!" :lol

Edit - Someone tweeted though saying "He said "its already the season of Yakiimo", the traditional Japanese baked sweet potato (which usually seen in autumn)."
 
A

Adamm

Member
kharma45 said:
Kobayashi has just posted on Twitter "もう焼き芋の季節やん！" which Google Translate says means Yan 焼き芋 another season!"

I used Bing too just to double check and I got "Another seasonal sweet potato and I!" :lol

Edit - Someone tweeted though saying "He said "its already the season of Yakiimo", the traditional Japanese baked sweet potato (which usually seen in autumn)."
Click to expand...

Koba sure loves potatoes
 
B

brotkasten

Member
criesofthepast said:
Updated schedule for 2013. Germany moved up a week. The one unannounced euro date does that happen every year they put it somewhere different or is it another in Spain every year?

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2012/12/14150.html
Click to expand...

I was about to post that. Turkey is rumored to be back next year.

Also, the electric pit lane motors were pushed back to 2017.

There have also been several tweaks to the 2014 regulations. The requirement for cars to be driven exclusively under electric power in the pit lane has been postponed until 2017 and changes made to bodywork design, originally aimed at reducing downforce and drag for increased efficiency, have reverted to the 2012 specification. The minimum weight limit has also been raised to compensate for the additional weight of the new 2014 power units.
Click to expand...
 
S

scorcher59

Member
Myoclonic Jerk said:
No you should not, because if he was able to drive that shit of a car to "where it doesn't belong" he should take this car even further, and be consistently faster than Massa which he wasn't.

Shouldn't this bust the myth of Alonso being the ultimate car developer as well? If he was, then the development of the car should suit him better, just in case you wanted to argue that the new updates suited Massa more
Click to expand...
To be fair he was one of the best developmental drivers when there was in season testing, since that has been banned for a while there's a lot less development for drivers in general, and that actually shows specially in ferrari's case of not being able to cope when the other teams overtook them by mid season on the technical side, i guess that's why ferrari has always been very vocal about bringing back in season testing.
 
P

Psychotext

Member
Interesting overtaking stats for the year:

All overtakes
1. Sebastian Vettel – 74 on-track overtakes
1. Mark Webber – 74
3. Felipe Massa – 65
4. Lewis Hamilton – 55
4. Romain Grosjean – 55

All overtakes, without backmarkers
Disgarding the overtakes on the teams of HRT, Marussia and Caterham
1. Sebastian Vettel – 51 on-track overtakes
2. Lewis Hamilton – 46
2. Mark Webber – 46
4. Felipe Massa – 45
5. Jenson Button – 41

All overtakes, without backmarkers, with equal tires
Disgarding the overtakes on the teams of HRT, Marussia and Caterham
Disgarding overtakes on cars with more than 5 lap older tires
1. Sebastian Vettel – 29 on-track overtakes
2. Jenson Button – 26
3. Mark Webber – 24
4. Kimi Räikkönen – 23
4. Felipe Massa – 23

All overtakes, only on 5 top teams
Counting only overtakes on the teams of Red Bull, Ferrari, McLaren, Lotus and Mercedes
1. Sebastian Vettel – 28 on-track overtakes
2. Lewis Hamilton – 25
3. Jenson Button – 22
4. Kimi Räikkönen – 21
5. Felipe Massa – 16

Seems that Alonso got a lot of his places because of the crashes / car failures of others. Surprised to see Massa in the mix.
 
Myoclonic Jerk

Myoclonic Jerk

Member
Psychotext said:
Seems that Alonso got a lot of his places because of the crashes / car failures of others. Surprised to see Massa in the mix.
Click to expand...

I follow Alonso and Kimi in the races and I confirm that Alonso almost benefits from every situation in any race this year. He's extremely lucky in that sense
 
S

Shaneus

Member
That last statistic should also not count overtakes on teammates. Given that there would've been (understandable) team orders for teammates to not take each other out at all, majority would've hardly been contested passes.

But yeah, surprising to see Massa in the mix and also NOT seeing Alonso. I doubt he gained that much out of crashes etc., I'd be more inclined to think it would've been from the pits... I don't remember him benefiting all that much from a lot of DNFs, but perhaps he did. I know he benefited a lot from having a reliable car, but that's not quite the same thing.
 
B

Big Takeover

Member
Psychotext said:
Interesting overtaking stats for the year:
Click to expand...

Great stats. So much information to parse.

and if you didn't already know how important getting in DRS range was, the slowest car in a straight line is the best for passing. Still, you wouldn't expect the World Champion to sweep the passing stats. Generally he just takes off at the front. Goes to show you how incredible a season it was. I bet Alonso was hurt by essentially missing two GPs because of going out in the first corner. Grosjean often qualified so poorly, he made up for all those crashes and having to sit out a race.
 
R

RukusProvider

Banned
Psychotext said:
Interesting overtaking stats for the year:

All overtakes
1. Sebastian Vettel – 74 on-track overtakes
1. Mark Webber – 74
3. Felipe Massa – 65
4. Lewis Hamilton – 55
4. Romain Grosjean – 55

All overtakes, without backmarkers
Disgarding the overtakes on the teams of HRT, Marussia and Caterham
1. Sebastian Vettel – 51 on-track overtakes
2. Lewis Hamilton – 46
2. Mark Webber – 46
4. Felipe Massa – 45
5. Jenson Button – 41

All overtakes, without backmarkers, with equal tires
Disgarding the overtakes on the teams of HRT, Marussia and Caterham
Disgarding overtakes on cars with more than 5 lap older tires
1. Sebastian Vettel – 29 on-track overtakes
2. Jenson Button – 26
3. Mark Webber – 24
4. Kimi Räikkönen – 23
4. Felipe Massa – 23

All overtakes, only on 5 top teams
Counting only overtakes on the teams of Red Bull, Ferrari, McLaren, Lotus and Mercedes
1. Sebastian Vettel – 28 on-track overtakes
2. Lewis Hamilton – 25
3. Jenson Button – 22
4. Kimi Räikkönen – 21
5. Felipe Massa – 16

Seems that Alonso got a lot of his places because of the crashes / car failures of others. Surprised to see Massa in the mix.
Click to expand...

Oh boy. Lots of excuses coming in....
 
P

paskowitz

Member
Psychotext said:
Interesting overtaking stats for the year:

All overtakes
1. Sebastian Vettel – 74 on-track overtakes
1. Mark Webber – 74
3. Felipe Massa – 65
4. Lewis Hamilton – 55
4. Romain Grosjean – 55

All overtakes, without backmarkers
Disgarding the overtakes on the teams of HRT, Marussia and Caterham
1. Sebastian Vettel – 51 on-track overtakes
2. Lewis Hamilton – 46
2. Mark Webber – 46
4. Felipe Massa – 45
5. Jenson Button – 41

All overtakes, without backmarkers, with equal tires
Disgarding the overtakes on the teams of HRT, Marussia and Caterham
Disgarding overtakes on cars with more than 5 lap older tires
1. Sebastian Vettel – 29 on-track overtakes
2. Jenson Button – 26
3. Mark Webber – 24
4. Kimi Räikkönen – 23
4. Felipe Massa – 23

All overtakes, only on 5 top teams
Counting only overtakes on the teams of Red Bull, Ferrari, McLaren, Lotus and Mercedes
1. Sebastian Vettel – 28 on-track overtakes
2. Lewis Hamilton – 25
3. Jenson Button – 22
4. Kimi Räikkönen – 21
5. Felipe Massa – 16

Seems that Alonso got a lot of his places because of the crashes / car failures of others. Surprised to see Massa in the mix.
Click to expand...

I am serious, I would like to see non DRS overtakes and overtakes for position.
 
Myoclonic Jerk

Myoclonic Jerk

Member
Norante said:
Anything before mid-October and it will be too hot. I don't think Bernie will acquiesce.
Click to expand...

Bahrain is always hot, so it shouldn't be a problem.


Redbull Journey video - warning, Webber porn


Briatore joins Montezemolo in criticising Schumacher

“The way he (Schumacher) behaved in Brazil was not good. His preference was that Red Bull beats Ferrari,” said Briatore.

“The only one who helped Ferrari was Webber,” he added, referring to Vettel’s Red Bull teammate Mark Webber, who is in Briatore’s management stable.
Click to expand...

Vettel frowns upon fans’ Bruno Senna abuse

Vettel said immediately after the race: “The grave of Ayrton Senna is here in Sao Paulo. Maybe someone has to go there and tell him what his nephew did today.”

The 25-year-old was smiling and clearly joking when he made the remarks, but – according to German media reports – that did not stop some of his fans from defacing Bruno Senna’s social media pages with abuse.

Vettel told Sport Bild: “I clearly distance myself from these so-called fans. In the end we are all part of a sport and it can always happen that we get in each other’s way.”
Click to expand...


Nice Kimi Q&A on Turun Sannomat

Translated by Nicole
F1 | Turun Sanomat 00:51

Kimi Räikkönen is known as the fairest wheel-to-wheel fighter in F1-circles. He is very tough in each confrontation, but careful. He very rarely crashes.
How important is the reputation of being a fair driver to Räikkönen himself?

– Well it’s always better than having a reputation of crashing in every race, Räikkönen laughs.

Is it any disadvantage to you when the opponent knows that you won’t crash?

– I have never suffered from it at least. I don’t let anyone by me easily, but I definitely won’t start fighting like crazy if I know that I have no possibility to keep the other one behind me. By doing that you only lose more time in race lenght when the other one will get past you anyway at some point.

– If I’m for example one second slower in some race, then I can hold him for a while but with such a difference in speed he will inevitably find so much space at some point that he overtakes me.

During the season Räikkönen offered the tv-audience a sample of his fairness in USA Grand Prix by losing a duel with Jenson Button after a long combination of corners and then in Brazil Grand Prix in his last overtake of Michael Schumacher.

– When fighting with a great champion like Kimi you get a different feeling and feel more safe, Fernando Alonso has summarized his tough fights with Räikkönen.
Click to expand...
 
F

fu3lfr3nzy

Member
Myoclonic Jerk said:
Briatore joins Montezemolo in criticising Schumacher
Click to expand...

Lets see:

1. Let his fellow german and good friend pass and help secure his third straight WDC

or

2. Fight Vettel and give the guy that broke his WDC streak last decade and the team that forced him into retirement a chance at winning the WDC

yeah..........

Myoclonic Jerk said:
Vettel frowns upon fans’ Bruno Senna abuse
Click to expand...

Sure, hes joking about it now, but if that Senna crash caused Vettel a DNF and the championship, I'm sure he'll have a more colorful language and attitude about the whole thing.
 
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