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[Nicktendo86]

Nothing new, I think I reported everything already.
Regarding driver choice its like this:
- Honda want ALO and BUT
- RD adamant he´s the boss, and makes the driver choice
- Honda said, OK, but we´ll foot the bill, and we need some A1 talent to be competitive
- basically force ALO down RD throat (he´s still mad at him - but when the chance emerges to get a talent like this, you have a hard time explaining to your board why you´ll pass)
- RD grudgingly accepts ALO, but wants to at least name driver #2
- board says fine, that's within your rights - but it only makes sense, if you can come up with at least as much (sponsor) money, as Honda is willing to pay for BUT (~10Mio/year, last I heard)
So its not as much that RD doesn´t like BUT, but more or less a powerplay, him showing he´s still the boss.

So in a nutshell, Honda insisted in Alonso, Ron got pissed that they forced him on him so said he wants to pick second driver, board said fine but only if you can find money to pay for salary if not Button, he has been trying to raise said cash to massage his ego.

Lol Ron your are a dick. A glorious dick, but a dick nonetheless. Take this one on the chin son and move on.

 

[Dutch Gronk]

So in a nutshell, Honda insisted in Alonso, Ron got pissed that they forced him on him so said he wants to pick second driver, board said fine but only if you can find money to pay for salary if not Button, he has been trying to raise said cash to massage his ego.

Lol Ron your are a dick. A glorious dick, but a dick nonetheless. Take this one on the chin son and move on.

Yeah Ron, take the dick on the chin.

What are we talking about here?

 

[ramparter]

Didn't he already fired so many people? Of course he's the boss but the wallets expect of him to be reasonable. Maybe he should focus less on his ego and more on reality. Button is the obvious choice.

 

[Hammer24]

... but the wallets expect of him to be reasonable.

Only regarding financials. The Bahrainis always stayed out on everything else (which makes them so nice to have! )

 

[nature boy]

Didn't he already fired so many people? Of course he's the boss but the wallets expect of him to be reasonable. Maybe he should focus less on his ego and more on reality. Button is the obvious choice.

Button is 10.000.000£ and more sporting control from Honda.
Magnussen is 500.000£ and less control from Honda.

Being a shareholder and chairman of the company, which one would you pick? It's far from an obvious choice.

 

[Hammer24]

Only that this is not the choice.
In reality:
driver a) pay nothing, as someone else does
driver b) only if he brings (sponsor) money

Oh, and b) of course means, that its not necessarily Magnussen

 

[nature boy]

If Honda is paying, Honda is calling the shots.
In that scenario, Honda is literally controlling the F1 operation at Mclaren and in Ron's position Button is not worth that. I don't think Ron wants to be in that position where he's controlled by Honda and that's why he's insisting on other options.

If Magnussen brings sponsorship (

Spoiler

and loans/investors

) - and Ron has been vocal about companies in Denmark helping out Magnussen- for the long term it makes much more sense to go with KMag.

But it all comes down to him finding the money to buy out Ojjeh and part of the Bahrainis.

But I do believe people are being a bit unfair on Ron Dennis.

 

[ConstructMe]

Is this bad if honda and ron are bickering even before race 1?

 

[Myoclonic Jerk]

Is this bad if honda and ron are bickering even before race 1?

Good and bad.

Good: both of them will make sure they deliver from their end to have the upper hand

Bad: If they put personal interests first or let egos get in the way

 

[nature boy]

Is this bad if honda and ron are bickering even before race 1?

It's not bickering, it's Ron making sure Mclaren doesn't become a Williams-BMW or a BMW Sauber. If things are successful (and I'm sure both sides believe that) I'm sure Honda would want to increase their presence and influence in Mclaren and Ron wouldn't want that.

He's probably learned from the Mclaren-Mercedes era and doesn't want that to repeat itself.

 

[Hammer24]

If Honda is paying, Honda is calling the shots.
In that scenario, Honda is literally controlling the F1 operation at McLaren ...

They would have even more influence on the development of the car, but that's not necessarily a bad thing now, is it?
Yet I would say that's not "controlling the F1 operation". In what way do you see this?

But it all comes down to him finding the money to buy out Ojjeh and part of the Bahrainis.

But I do believe people are being a bit unfair on Ron Dennis.

Yep and yep.

 

[ramparter]

Just to add that Button saved McLaren some millions by ranking higher than the FI drivers in Abu Dhabi and holding their 6th place in constructors championship.

edit:

But I do believe people are being a bit unfair on Ron Dennis.

True. Normally I wouldn't care, it's just that I really want Button to stay, and I think it's the first time so many people express their support for a driver to be kept.

 

[Hammer24]

Just to add that Button saved McLaren some millions by ranking higher than the FI drivers in Abu Dhabi and holding their 6th place in constructors championship.

And he´s the way better development driver, and indefinitely more marketable for the British team as well as for the Japanese manufacturer.
But that's not what its about.

 

[ramparter]

And he´s the way better development driver, and indefinitely more marketable for the British team as well as for the Japanese manufacturer.
But that's not what its about.

Yeah, after my edit at the previous post I realized that maybe it's not Ron VS Honda but Ron VS the fans. I mean, everytime someone voices his support for Button Ron thinks, "damn I got to show everybody who is running this team, I can't succumb to the fans desires."

 

[Zeknurn]

Shouldn't we be using an off season thread by now?

 

[nature boy]

They would have even more influence on the development of the car, but that's not necessarily a bad thing now, is it?
Yet I would say that's not "controlling the F1 operation". In what way do you see this?

Well they're developing the PU and in the case of signing Button paying for both drivers. That's a pretty big influence that no shareholder structure can ignore. Can any Mclaren director make a decision on the F1 team without consulting Honda? If Mclaren-Honda are successful and considering the amount of money Honda has thrown in, Honda would probably want even more say in the team.
And does Mclaren want to be in that position considering how big companies come and go in F1? It's probably a better strategy to diversify your sources of income, so if Ron can get the sponsorship and/or investment from other sources, why rely on Honda? It will give him more power when it comes to negotiating.

Mclaren want to be a brand that rivals Ferrari in popularity, obviously that will take decades (if they ever get there), long after Ron is gone, and in Ron's view the best strategy is not to become reliant on any manufacturer, since their long term goals are not the same. Hence trying to regain control of the company and avoid being bought.

Mclaren haven't made their own PU simply because they can't afford it, because I'm sure they have the tech, the know-how and the drive to do so. But I'm sure they want to be in a position (stealing a Johnny Herbert trademarked expression) to one day be totally independent.

But the Button vs Magnussen story is the smaller story in all of this and are just collateral damage.

 

[Nicktendo86]

I'm pretty sure the long term goal for McLaren, like RBR, is to develop their own engines. They do already with their road cars I think?

 

[Hammer24]

Well they're developing the PU and in the case of signing Button paying for both drivers. That's a pretty big influence that no shareholder structure can ignore. Can any Mclaren director make a decision on the F1 team without consulting Honda? If Mclaren-Honda are successful and considering the amount of money Honda has thrown in, Honda would probably want even more say in the team.

Look, I understand the point you´re trying to make. But I fail to see an application. Could you provide me with an example, what kind of decision you could envision coming up where Honda would exercise this kind of influence?

 

[duckroll]

Shouldn't we be using an off season thread by now?

What difference does it make? It's not like we'll hit 20k posts before the next season starts anyway.

 

[Staab]

Looking at the alternatives for FIA Action of the year and they couldn't have picked a less exciting overtake from F1.

http://www.fia.com/action-of-the-year

Haha, are they for real ? That's so bad...

 

[DBT85]

Virtual Safety Car has been approved

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/117009

More testing will be done in the pre season tests but it's happening.

 

[Hammer24]

What difference does it make? It's not like we'll hit 20k posts before the next season starts anyway.

Yeah, but the use of the fan-boost-button is now compulsory...

Spoiler

I agree.

 

[duckroll]

Damn, out of everything this season THAT was the "action moment" the FIA picked for F1? Jesus. Did Red Bull pay them?

 

[nature boy]

Look, I understand the point you´re trying to make. But I fail to see an application. Could you provide me with an example, what kind of decision you could envision coming up where Honda would exercise this kind of influence?

Driver lineup? Honda cash (and works team status) was the catalysis to sign Alonso and Honda wanted him.

Regulation change? Since the formal entrant in the FIA's eyes is Mclaren-Honda, I don't believe Honda by itself has any say in determining the regulations.

And I'm sure Honda has some sponsorship and political (for instance Bahrain 2011) influence over what Mclaren can't and can't do.

 

[Hammer24]

Driver lineup? Honda cash (and works team status) was the catalysis to sign Alonso and Honda wanted him.

That's basically water under the bridge. RD didn´t want him, but from a teams perspective you have to grab A1 talent when it becomes available.
While without Honda they wouldn´t have gotten him, I can see no one else in the team earnestly disagree with this move.

Regulation change? Since the formal entrant in the FIA's eyes is Mclaren-Honda, I don't believe Honda by itself has any say in determining the regulations.

I cannot see, where Honda would want any kind of reg change, that would only benefit them but not the team.

And I'm sure Honda has some sponsorship and political (for instance Bahrain 2011) influence over what Mclaren can't and can't do.

That's in the nature of the deal, being the works team. But I again fail to see where they could want something that´d be not in the teams interests.


For good or bad, those two are married for the duration of their contract. Playing politics and conjuring what ifs sure isn´t helping right now, no?

 

[Norwegian Rudo]

I cannot see, where Honda would want any kind of reg change, that would only benefit them but not the team.

How about Red Bull and Renault? It's been pretty well established that Renault is against any engine change, while Horner is claiming the status quo is basically the end of the world.

 

[Hammer24]

How about Red Bull and Renault? It's been pretty well established that Renault is against any engine change, while Horner is claiming the status quo is basically the end of the world.

I would argue that this is a very different situation there. When you´re not winning in F1, you need scapegoats. You´ve seen the full Monty from wind tunnels to reg changes being blamed the last couple months.
Which is very different from the MCL-Honda situation. That's a new marriage, they simply didn´t have a chance to compete yet, so the need for scapegoats is far in the future for them.

 

[nature boy]

For good or bad, those two are married for the duration of their contract. Playing politics and conjuring what ifs sure isn´t helping right now, no?

But there are no tensions between Mclaren and Honda right now - Honda want nothing to do with the current power struggle at Mclaren.

But Ron wants to go beyond being tied to Honda. But it's not a stressed relationship.

 

[Hammer24]

No, its not a stressed relationship.
Yet.
Because the tensions are certainly there. With the engine being behind sched, which made the car being behind sched too; and with Tokio not really understanding why RD seems to be set against BUT.

 

[Mastah]

Fernando Alonso looks unlikely to be able to squeeze the Le Mans 24 Hours into his 2015 schedule, despite trying hard to convince McLaren to grant permission for him to do the race.

Nico Hulkenberg has been able to agree such an arrangement with Force India, but unsurprisingly for Alonso there are added contractual complications with McLaren and Honda. While the Japanese manufacturer is perhaps less concerned about its star driver appearing for Porsche, as opposed to a direct market rival such as Toyota, Nissan or Audi, McLaren’s own status as a supercar maker has complicated matters. There are also questions over clashes of partners such as Pirelli and Michelin.

http://adamcooperf1.com/2014/12/03/alonso-forced-to-put-his-le-mans-dream-on-hold/

Nooooooooooooooooo

 

[Big Takeover]

I've got no problem with Ron's position on the driver lineup. I think playing the contrarian is the right thing to do for the team in the long run. The line drawn in the sand is more important than who the second driver will be.

Honda has a longstanding history of forcing drivers on teams (usually Japanese). They got their one pick, now step back and let the team handle the rest.

Honda may have been able to help their cause by saying nothing about Button, but you never know. KMag is Ron's guy. A carry over from cleaning house last year. Melbourne was as chuffed as I've ever seen him. His guy podiuming in his reclaimed team. He takes a lot of pride in the decisions he makes. You've got to leave him space to do that to get the most out of him. That's not unreasonable imo.

 

[Wax Free Vanilla]

If all it took was 10 million Button would have already been shown the door as that Danish billionaire already sponsors McLaren and Magnussen. Also, when Magnussen was confirmed as Perez's replacement it was Ronbo's descision alone according to him, so this board meeting isn't to decide the driver lineup, that's already decided. The only thing that can save Button is the result of this board room battle, what did Eddie say about this potential management reshuffle?

Button is 99.9% into F1 retirement.

 

[Filben]

Nooooooooooooooooo

Yes. But I'm so happy to see Hülkenberg there. I'm totally in love with this guy and his deadpan humor.

 

[Risgroo]

Jenson pls

 

[Ark]

It's funny how quickly the tune has changed.

 

[Mastah]

Ch-ch-ch-changes:

The return of the Korean GP on a 21-race calendar, no F1 licence for under-18s from 2016 onwards, the introduction of a new 10-second penalty in races, the end of gimmicks such as double points and standing restarts, as well as the formal introduction of the Virtual Safety Car were among the key decisions taken at today’s meeting of the FIA World Motor Sports Council in Doha, Qatar.

Additionally, the panel tasked with reporting on the Jules Bianchi accident in Suzuka has filed a 396 page report, a summary of which the council made available to media (see separate story).

There was, however, no word on engine unfreezes, so the rules stay the same for 2015. Nor is there any word on the 2016 arrangements, but Red Bull has threatened to lead a lobbying group to open up development in 2016.

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2014/...o-introduce-super-licence-age-limit-for-2016/

Full list - http://www.fia.com/news/world-motor-sport-council-2014-doha

 

[nature boy]

Wow Korea GP come out of nowhere. Thought it was pretty much dead.

What 1 week between Korea and Spain? Crazy.
Although Korea is TBC.

No, its not a stressed relationship.
Yet.
Because the tensions are certainly there. With the engine being behind sched, which made the car being behind sched too; and with Tokio not really understanding why RD seems to be set against BUT.

Yeah but it's early days, no one is going to bust a bubble until the car is running in a GP.

 

[cmr-94]

Safety Car: lapped cars

Once the last lapped car has passed the leader the safety car will return to the pits at the end of the following lap, the race director will no longer have to wait for all the lapped cars to reach the back of the pack behind the safety car.

i like this a lot

 

[TCRS]

wtf at the button defence force. send him into retirement already. guy has been nothing but mediocre for 15 fucking years now with one lucky season.

 

[Zeknurn]

Didnt they abandon the Korean track? How weird.

 

[Hammer24]

Yeah but it's early days, no one is going to bust a bubble until the car is running in a GP.

Absolutely. I´d even say until the car had its first year under the belt.

 

[Mastah]

wtf at the button defence force. send him into retirement already. guy has been nothing but mediocre for 15 fucking years now with one lucky season.

Are you actually serious?


Kobayashi with Sasha Grey

http://instagram.com/p/wJtACdw7qq/

 

[Hammer24]

Kobayashi with Sasha Grey

http://instagram.com/p/wJtACdw7qq/

No Brazzers logo, must be fake.

 

[Psychotext]

He looks seriously sweaty. lol

 

[Addnan]

He looks seriously sweaty. lol

Wouldn't you be?

 

[Psychotext]

Maybe later.

 

[nature boy]

The Times newspaper now claims that a European investigation into Formula 1 is much more advanced than previously thought. The report said Force India, Lotus, Sauber and Marussia have all been asked to make legal submissions to the commission.

“If the EU come in,” warned Todt’s predecessor Mosley, “they can rip the whole thing up. I am flattered by the idea that I could be involved. I am out of touch, but I would do anything I could to help if all of the relevant parties agreed.”

Don't like GMM articles, but since the Times is behind a paywall, will have to do.

Bernie and the FIA could be in trouble in 2015.

And Porsche LMP1 head confirmed Nico Hulkenberg approached Porsche and asked for a drive.

 

[TCRS]

how so? I mean what can the EU do?

and yes mastah I am serious. you guys are suffering from a bout of nostalgia or something.

 

[DBT85]

10 second penalty is good. the 5 second one has worked well for minor infractions.

Also changes to the penalties for new engine parts

The replacement of a complete power unit will no longer result in a penalty, instead as specified in the current regulations, penalties will be applied cumulatively for individual components of the power unit.

If a grid place penalty is imposed, and the driver’s grid position is such that the full penalty cannot be applied, the remainder of the penalty will be applied in the form of a time penalty during the race (not at the next race as was previously the case) according to the following scale :

o 1 to 5 grid places untaken: A penalty under Article 16.3(a) will be applied.

o 6 to 10 grid places untaken: A penalty under Article 16.3(b) will be applied.

o 11 to 20 grid places untaken: A penalty under Article 16.3(c) will be applied.

o More than 20 grid places untaken: A penalty under Article 16.3(d) will be applied.

I'm guessing that means that replacing the PU instead of getting a pit lane start as we saw this year, the 6 parts will add up to make up whatever penalty it is.

And safety car changes too!!! Finally.

Once the last lapped car has passed the leader the safety car will return to the pits at the end of the following lap, the race director will no longer have to wait for all the lapped cars to reach the back of the pack behind the safety car.

 

[nature boy]

how so? I mean what can the EU do?

and yes mastah I am serious. you guys are suffering from a bout of nostalgia or something.

Like Mosley says, rip up everything and start over.
Specifically, they can get rid of Ferrari's and FIA's special deals (historical bonus for FER and the 1% both Ferrari and the FIA own in the parent company of F1), change the distribution of prize money and fine both FOM and the FIA, for example.