The Formula 1 Off-Season |OT| Haas to get better, right?

DrM said:
Rosberg will do 200 laps today. Or at least 175 :D
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Insane. That's 2 1/2 races.

Lego Boss said:
I've got a mate who says it'll be 'closer' this time around.

If by closer he means that Ferrari will win four races instead of three he's right.

Mercs already have it. The only question is if Lolberg can challenge #blessed.
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Everyone is expecting it to be closer. Who knows, really?

Ferrari has a planned evolution of its PU before Melbourne - that could very put them firmly ahead of Mercedes...
 
All manufacturers will bring newer engine types to the first race. Autosport doing story from speaking with Haas...

170 laps for Rosberg with 30 minutes to go and he is still going
 
Merc is just letting the teams get in their free PR so a few people buy GP tickets now thinking the season isn't going to be another boring HAM v ROS procession. I actually expect them to be even more dominant this season. All the other teams closed the gap to last years Merc... but unfortuantely Merc likely improved their cars too. Everyone else is just chasing their shadow. I have zero expectation or hype going into this season other than, "I like some of the new paint jobs"
 
Barcelona preseason test #1
Day 2

Best times / laps
1 Sebastian Vettel Ferrari 1:22.810 125
2 Daniel Ricciardo Red Bull 1:23.525 112
3 Sergio Perez Force India 1:23.650 101
4 Nico Rosberg Mercedes 1:24.867 172
5 Marcus Ericsson Sauber 1:25.237 106
6 Esteban Gutierrez Haas 1:25.524 79
7 Valtteri Bottas Williams 1:25.648 134
8 Pascal Wehrlein Manor 1:25.925 71
9 Fernando Alonso McLaren 1:26.082 119
10 Jolyon Palmer Renault 1:26.189 42
11 Max Verstappen Toro Rosso 1:26.539 121
 
I know it probably mean nothing, but I'm glad to see Manor and Haas doing well in these tests. People at Sauber and McLaren must be worried.
 
Chris R said:
Tests are one thing. If they can keep up the pace in Australia that will be another.
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I think Haas are in a position to be pretty successful they've been getting a lot out of Ferrari.

McLaren I don't believe are going to improve much if all over last year.

Merc will be massively sandbagging it. They did it last year, they did it the year before. They're just putting miles on the cars testing reliability more than anything. Ferrari are likely trying to coax them into showing getting Merc to get a move on to show what sort of pace they really have but I think Merc will just continue cruising pumping in the laps.

I don't believe they even showed their true pace last year, they had some power going spare they seemed to reign in. Hamilton said as much saying the car felt off for him a bit later in the year. It's likely they were just staying in the realm of doing enough to secure the WCC without going overboard.
 
Tobias Grüner ‏@tgruener 19 minutes ago

New #F1 quali mode in discussion for 2016. All cars running on the track together - after every few minutes the slowest drops out. #AMuS

Oh, I know that from video games! What's that mode called again?

And Gene Haas gave a full explanation why the front wing failed yesterday.

"The problem from yesterday was the wing has a fair amount of downforce on it, so it pulled out the attachment structure on the nose," Haas told reporters.

"The nose isaluminium that the carbon fibre is integrated with, so when they [chassis manufacturer Dallara] do the process of putting the parts in the auto clave, the theory is that when the aluminium heats up and then cools down again it pulls away a bit from the carbon fibre. On track, with downforce and vibrations, that bond wasn't proper, so it separated and that aluminium pulled out from the nose and it broke into many pieces.

"The solution [for Tuesday's testing] was to take the two little down struts where the aluminium is and put straps around them and put screws perpendicular to the axis, so instead of having screws that go straight down, we have screws that are perpendicular. Eventually they'll find some other way of bonding the aluminium to the carbon fibre."
 
Lego Boss said:
I've got a mate who says it'll be 'closer' this time around.

If by closer he means that Ferrari will win four races instead of three he's right.

Mercs already have it. The only question is if Lolberg can challenge #blessed.
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And you are basing this on the fact that....??
 
brotkasten said:
Tobias Grüner ‏@tgruener 19 minutes ago

New #F1 quali mode in discussion for 2016. All cars running on the track together - after every few minutes the slowest drops out. #AMuS

Oh, I know that from video games! What's that mode called again?
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Well, in cycling it's the Elimination Race.
 
brotkasten said:
Tobias Grüner ‏@tgruener 19 minutes ago

New #F1 quali mode in discussion for 2016. All cars running on the track together - after every few minutes the slowest drops out. #AMuS

Oh, I know that from video games! What's that mode called again?
...
re." [/I]
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Ha, that would be fun to force cars to drop off to pits if they are slowest.
 
brotkasten said:
Tobias Grüner ‏@tgruener 19 minutes ago

New #F1 quali mode in discussion for 2016. All cars running on the track together - after every few minutes the slowest drops out. #AMuS

Oh, I know that from video games! What's that mode called again?
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Knockout or Elimination.

DrM said:
And imagine radio conversation "He held me up in that corner! This is bulls***" etc :D
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This will create so much drama around Monaco.
 
Love the idea. It's basically a qualifiying race. But the teams will fight it because the engines won't survive - unless they get additional engines to be used only in the qualifying (which leads to a whole bunch of other problems).
 
Whaaat?
Time ballast
The F1 Commission also discussed a penalty system whereby extra time is added to each drivers' qualifying time on the basis of championship positions.
A study was conducted using the 2015 Abu Dhabi GP with the championship leader having four seconds added to his qualifying time, with everyone else taking extra time on a sliding scale.
It is understood that this could be combined with the elimination system.
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DrM said:
And imagine radio conversation "He held me up in that corner! This is bulls***" etc :D
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I think if you release them from pits staggered by 3-5 seconds, then let them complete 2-3 laps before an elimination, it's no biggie. You can look at gaps and sector times and tell if there's odd obstruction, but in general people will run clean in the beginning to stay alive, then as the field goes to 10 or less, they will voluntarily space out to throw blistering laps.

From above article:

How it works

Q1

-16 minutes duration;

- After 7 minutes, the slowest driver is eliminated;

- Slowest driver eliminated every 1 minute 30 seconds thereafter until the chequered flag;

- 7 drivers eliminated, 15 progress to Q2.

Q2

- 15 minutes duration;

- After 6 minutes, slowest driver eliminated;

- Slowest driver eliminated every 1 minute 30 seconds thereafter until the chequered flag;

- 7 drivers eliminated, 8 progress to Q3.

Q3

- 14 minutes;

- After 5 minutes, slowest driver eliminated;

- Slowest driver eliminated every 1 minute 30 seconds thereafter until the chequered flag;

- 2 drivers left in final 1 minute 30 seconds.
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What I really like about this is that it will force people out of the pits. No more waiting to throw one lap in a 10-15 minute period then get out and save tires/engine... while some teams fight to the death. It's like a mini race for the race.

I dont get the time ballast idea. Can someone explain? Would the championship leader get the most time added so he could start not on pole on purpose to prevent domination?
 
AndyD said:
I dont get the time ballast idea. Can someone explain? Would the championship leader get the most time added so he could start not on pole on purpose to prevent domination?
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I understand it that WDC leader would have the biggest time 'bonus', 2nd driver in WDC would get smaller 'bonus' and so on for all drivers in points... But they should release a formula for calculation.
 
DrM said:
I understand it that WDC leader would have the biggest time 'bonus', 2nd driver in WDC would get smaller 'bonus' and so on for all drivers in points... But they should release a formula for calculation.
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Quite unfair if the WDC leader keep losing his poles because the gap to the 2nd driver is inferior to the time penalty imposed...
 
ksharp said:
Quite unfair if the WDC leader keep losing his poles because the gap to the 2nd driver is inferior to the time penalty imposed...
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It is very strange and very unfair for the leader, at least from what we know now.

But it could be refined over time - this reminds me on wind/gate compensation in ski jumping, which took almost four years for FIS to get it 75% right
 
Some of these things sound good, like forcing cars to run on Saturdays, others sound like they could be problematic gimmicks, like the time ballast stuff.
 
The only thing I don't like about the constant elimination is that it takes away from the excitement of the checkered flag where you don't know which driver of five or six could take pole and instead spreads it out over the Q3 period, leaving it down to just two drivers.
 
AndyD said:
Maybe. But it could make for better racing as it could force more passing.
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Drivers can't pass as much because cars can't follow each other closely due to current aero regs.

Also, how is that going to work at tracks like Spa, China, Austin, etc. where the flying lap is well above 90 seconds? What about pitstops to change tyres?

Some drivers will definitely be caught out as these tyres/PUs don't allow for 2 flying laps in a row. Also, stewards will have to be much more severe with regards to drivers impeding others... this is a recipe for disaster.

Jon Noble ‏@NobleF1
It is not impossible that as soon as sporting directors evaluate implications, the idea of a knock-out qualifying system is killed off.
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Thank you.
 
theignoramus said:
Some of these things sound good, like forcing cars to run on Saturdays, others sound like they could be problematic gimmicks, like the time ballast stuff.
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Doesn't sound like the time ballast thing will actually be implemented though, at least not this year:

It is understood that this could have been combined with the elimination system, but it is not believed to have gathered the necessary support.
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Actually, you know, the teams might not treat it any differently at all. They'll do 2 stints in each session and the times where people are eliminated will be meaningless. The front teams will now only do 1 stint on options at the start, killing any possible race strategy options. This starts at 7 minutes? That's enough for everyone to get 2 laps in if they rush at the start of the session. So the same as now, only with more traffic and confusion, and an even bigger gap in the middle of sessions where nothing happens.

This sort of thing works in a video game with arcade gameplay and 30 second laps around imaginary, exaggerated tracks where the cars can line up nose-to-tail for continuous competitive competition, with no fuel or tyre restrictions. That's not possible in F1. At all. I'm baffled that all the teams agreed to this. The differences might not be particularly noticeable in Q1 but, god, Q3 would be sparse. It's going to result in less total cars on track overall. Doesn't that defeat the purpose?
 
aspiegamer said:
Actually, you know, the teams might not treat it any differently at all. They'll do 2 stints in each session and the times where people are eliminated will be meaningless. The front teams will now only do 1 stint on options at the start, killing any possible race strategy options. This starts at 7 minutes? That's enough for everyone to get 2 laps in if they rush at the start of the session. So the same as now, only with more traffic and confusion, and an even bigger gap in the middle of sessions where nothing happens.
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Exactly what I was about to say. All it does is weight track action to the start of each section instead of the end, as cars confident enough of being in the top 8 on an average day could potentially just go out immediately, do one run, then go back to the pits for the rest of the session.

It also seems like an ill-suited format for a series whose cars are still so painfully aero-dependant. I could see it working in some fashion in something like Formula E though.
 
Lego Boss said:
Mercs already have it. The only question is if Lolberg can challenge #blessed.
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At the end of last season, in risk of becoming Thirdberg, he managed to evolve into Firstberg instead. I hope that this time he remembers how to pull that off from the very beginning.
 
ElTorro said:
At the end of last season, in risk of becoming Thirdberg, he managed to evolve into Firstberg instead. I hope that this time he remembers how to pull that off from the very beginning.
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What happened at the end of the season is Lewis underperforming as opposed to Rosberg being at the top of his game (although to be fair, he did produce stellar performances for time to time). Lewis just lost his mojo in qualifying after Mercedes introduced a new suspension following Singapore, and he's never been the same in qualifying since.
 
ksharp said:
What happened at the end of the season is Lewis underperforming as opposed to Rosberg being at the top of his game (although to be fair, he did produce stellar performances for time to time). Lewis just lost his mojo in qualifying after Mercedes introduced a new suspension following Singapore, and he's never been the same in qualifying since.
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Ham went back to the old suspension, he was still at the top of his game but Rosberg could finally manage to get to the top of his game. Rosberg wasn't underperforming for the first 2/3 of the season and Ham wasn't underperforming for the last 1/3. They just had a car that was better suited for their respective driving skills.
 
darkinstinct said:
Ham went back to the old suspension, he was still at the top of his game but Rosberg could finally manage to get to the top of his game. Rosberg wasn't underperforming for the first 2/3 of the season and Ham wasn't underperforming for the last 1/3. They just had a car that was better suited for their respective driving skills.
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Don't think so; at least I don't recall Mercedes caving in and let him run the old config.

As for Rosberg not having a car suiting him, don't think that's true either. He never made any allusion to him being uncomfortable with the car.
 
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