The Future Of Dragon Age PAX Panel (More Dragon Age 3 Information) [Updated]
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
While I don't really have any predictions/opinions on the quality of DA3, I find it humourous that so many people are extremely quick to write off the franchise after a misstep was made with the sequel. The history of gaming is filled with examples of great part 3s after disappointing/despised part 2s.
Castlevania 2
Zelda 2
Final Fantasy 2
Devil May Cry 2
Metal Gear Solid 2
Deus Ex: Invisible War
etc etc
Castlevania 2
Zelda 2
Final Fantasy 2
Devil May Cry 2
Metal Gear Solid 2
Deus Ex: Invisible War
etc etc
I think the environment and draw distance is a bit better in DA2, not to mention it ran better, artistically they both have their flaws, but I always thought modeling is much better in DAO, more polygons maybe? I just thought they had more details:
DAO NPC (maybe I had texture mods installed but the model is unaltered):
DAO playable character made using the toolset with cosmetic mods:
DA2 vanilla from the demo:
There were areas where they put in some tiny touches like fallen leaves, random kitten walking around towns for the environments in DAO, not sure about DA2 but the shit mountain in the demo was pretty terrible. Animation wise they were both really bad I think :lol
DAO NPC (maybe I had texture mods installed but the model is unaltered):
DAO playable character made using the toolset with cosmetic mods:
DA2 vanilla from the demo:
There were areas where they put in some tiny touches like fallen leaves, random kitten walking around towns for the environments in DAO, not sure about DA2 but the shit mountain in the demo was pretty terrible. Animation wise they were both really bad I think :lol
I think DA2 actually had better combat mechanics (on Nightmare difficulty, at least) than DAO. Tanks were essential because mages and rogues could be staggered/interrupted/knocked down by any hit. It forced you to keep the enemies focused on your tank while positioning the rest of your party to best use their AoE and cone attacks. I also liked how the different abilities had different effects that could combine to create new, more powerful effects. I also thought Varric and Merill were pretty entertaining characters.
Unfortunately, none of this could save the game from its bland, heavily recycled environments and half-assed, wave-based combat encounters. The only things that Bioware should take from DA2 are the combat mechanics, Varric and Merill. Everything else should be drawn from DAO.
Unfortunately, none of this could save the game from its bland, heavily recycled environments and half-assed, wave-based combat encounters. The only things that Bioware should take from DA2 are the combat mechanics, Varric and Merill. Everything else should be drawn from DAO.
lastplayed
Member
Two visual things I really miss from DA:O:
Isometric
And finishing moves
I doubt we'll ever see isometric ever again.
Isometric
And finishing moves
I doubt we'll ever see isometric ever again.
Fimbulvetr
Member
HP_Wuvcraft said:
Also because it's badly designed.
I don't like that ME2 wasn't just "Like Mass Effect but better", but I never deny that it is at least a good game.
IoCaster
Member
Nirolak said:
Holy crap, I literally almost fell off my chair laughing at this. A seriously spontaneous reaction. *guffaw*
I have to admit that the "Peter Principle" sprang to mind almost immediately. After the miserable pile that was DA2 and this news I can easily and in good conscience write this franchise off for good.
Some areas in Dragon Age 2 actually looked pretty good, but the overall it was very inconsistent compared to Origins. The Abandoned Thaigs especially were awful looking.
I'm still disappointed with how they handled the start of the game too. I remember hearing about how it would start with Hawke escaping from Lothering, but it turns out that you are on some ugly mountain. It would have been such a nice little touch if you could see some of the Lothering landmarks during that short sequence.
I'm still disappointed with how they handled the start of the game too. I remember hearing about how it would start with Hawke escaping from Lothering, but it turns out that you are on some ugly mountain. It would have been such a nice little touch if you could see some of the Lothering landmarks during that short sequence.
Krauser Kat
Member
Shuffle is fucking tried and true. They guy needs to eat a bag of shit. With graphics now shuffle does not need to be shuffling you can have dynamic battles of your character parrying or blocking or dodging every attack coming at him over the course of the round.
If he has ever played a decent pen and paper game, where the shuffle comes from. It never feels like a shuffle. You emote how you duck under his blade and roll a critical hit and stab the guy through the bottom of his jaw in to his brain, pirouette away and use cleave to try attacking the warrior next to him only to miss your roll and be parried stuck in a battle for half a second until the turn is over, where everyone re rolls to see who hits gets hit and parries and cleaves or casts. D&D rounds are only 3-6 seconds in real time. Where level 20 can attack 5 times within that frame (3 for rouge and 2 for mages for melee).
CDP Red should make a tactical team game in the witcher universe. No more of this shit.
If he has ever played a decent pen and paper game, where the shuffle comes from. It never feels like a shuffle. You emote how you duck under his blade and roll a critical hit and stab the guy through the bottom of his jaw in to his brain, pirouette away and use cleave to try attacking the warrior next to him only to miss your roll and be parried stuck in a battle for half a second until the turn is over, where everyone re rolls to see who hits gets hit and parries and cleaves or casts. D&D rounds are only 3-6 seconds in real time. Where level 20 can attack 5 times within that frame (3 for rouge and 2 for mages for melee).
CDP Red should make a tactical team game in the witcher universe. No more of this shit.
cartman414
Member
kswiston said:
Zelda 2 being among them makes me sad. (It's one of the more divisive, though.)
The MGS2 hate has died down quite a bit.
Crimson-Legend
Banned
Bring the best of both worlds...the battle system in DAII with the environments of DA:O
Synless
Member
Would it kill them to let us change their appearance? I mean, that is what the fanbase wants. Why does the video game industry always have to halfass everything when they try to fix something. You want customizable armor back? Ok, but you can't see the changes like we used to do... Seriously, its kind of getting ridiculous how oblivious developers can be.
HadesGigas
Member
Synless said:
Because they get more cosplay this way. Which is clearly the important part.
ShockingAlberto
Member
It's almost certainly because it takes more time to do that.Synless said:
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
Complistic said:
Yikes, yeah I forgot about those. What the hell is that even supposed to be? It's like trying to make stucco look like plywood, or plywood like stucco, and achieving neither.
Deified Data
Banned
This...sounds good.
Like most people here, I was disappointed with DAII's quality. Unlike most people here, I was able to enjoy it despite its many, varied faults. As someone who is still in love with Dragon Age and genuinely wants to see Thedas delivered out of chaos, I can say that if Bioware makes good on their promises for DAIII (and that's a big if), then I'm on board.
I believe certain elements from DAII (i.e. characterization, story-telling, certain combat mechanics) are worthy of merit, and I'd like to see them implemented in a more traditional, Origins-style way. I've grown wary of Bioware in recent years, but I won't let that trepidation prevent me from enjoying a good game. It's just that...I'll probably read more user-reviews in the future.
Like most people here, I was disappointed with DAII's quality. Unlike most people here, I was able to enjoy it despite its many, varied faults. As someone who is still in love with Dragon Age and genuinely wants to see Thedas delivered out of chaos, I can say that if Bioware makes good on their promises for DAIII (and that's a big if), then I'm on board.
I believe certain elements from DAII (i.e. characterization, story-telling, certain combat mechanics) are worthy of merit, and I'd like to see them implemented in a more traditional, Origins-style way. I've grown wary of Bioware in recent years, but I won't let that trepidation prevent me from enjoying a good game. It's just that...I'll probably read more user-reviews in the future.
I might be alone here but I did kind of like the DA2 companions having unique armour sets. In Origins I never changed Morrigan's default robes because I didn't like how she looked in anything else.
The problem with this in DA2 though was that you would find a lot of armour pieces for the other two classes that you weren't playing as and couldn't do anything except sell. The new system sound fine to me as seems to address the issues I had with the two games, but I can definitely understand if other people won't be happy with it.
The problem with this in DA2 though was that you would find a lot of armour pieces for the other two classes that you weren't playing as and couldn't do anything except sell. The new system sound fine to me as seems to address the issues I had with the two games, but I can definitely understand if other people won't be happy with it.
HadesGigas
Member
TruePrime said:
Why not have both like Morrigan had? You don't disappoint people who prefer either this way.
Cpt.Underpants
Member
Fuck, characters permanently looking the same for the entire duration of the game?
Not really liking this
Deified Data
Banned
Hah, agreed. some of my Origins characters would simply never change armor. Morrigan looks silly in anything other than her witch's robes. Alistair looks particularly dashing in Splintmail. Sten looks tiny in anything but massive armor.Don said:
While mixing and matching your armor in Origins was fun, there wasn't really enough variety in the equipment to keep things fresh. I, too, preferred the much more distinct appearance of the DAII party members. If we can have distinct appearances as well as a purpose for all the useless armor we find, it's sort of the best of both worlds, isn't it?
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Would like appearance to change if your clothing does, but oh well. This seems like a decent compromise.
HadesGigas
Member
Nirolak said:
Eh it just said "more than one" and listed ideas for where it'd be neat to do it. DA2 had more than one...
White Man said:
It's related to DAO. When you character moved, he quite literally shuffled in position. It was slow, tedious and frustrating to watch. They went overboard with DAII where you character was rolling around and jumping like crazy but it's was a try to fix the shuffling.
His favored example was how in Dragon Age 1, after your warrior shield bashed and enemy, the warrior would spend so much time getting into position to attack again that they could only get off one hit before the enemy got off the floor.White Man said:
So in Dragon Age 2, they basically removed the subtle turn structure and some of the animation vectors to allow you to attack and fire off moves more quickly.
graywolf323
Member
kswiston said:
there was a LONG delay between 2 & 3 for Deus Ex and as I remember for quite a few of those games the devs came out and said they screwed up
Bioware's come out and said that fans are wrong to dislike DA2, not exactly the best sign of them learning from mistakes
also you're probably thinking of FFVI when you include FFII on that list because the actual FFIII is not that great
Frankly, if it's between static designs where I can't change armor to remain logical, or going with a JRPG-style abstraction where they always look the same but I can fully customize their equipment, I'd rather go with the latter. I'd like to be able to upgrade my characters and perhaps outfit them for specific scenarios, and at least in DA:O they all started to look kind of samey anyway.
Because they're lazy, it shows in other games as well, they just don't want to put forth the effort to design a system that allows that.Synless said:
Also if you pay attention, there's still shuffling in DA2 but the animations are all sped up so it doesn't take nearly as long. That's why I say it's mechanically the same but visually different.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Eusis said:
Well, it's not just between those two choices, so....
lastplayed
Member
I actually kinda liked DA2's iconic character clothing that changed as the story progressed (and wasn't just a palette swap like ME2). Would be nice to see all party members go through a change though.
bigdaddygamebot
Member
So...you can change the way the other people in your party look, but it has nothing to do with the gear they are using.
I understand...it probably takes effort desiging assets(read: gear) to look slightly different on all the different character models. It probably takes effort to ensure that the different looking characters in their different looking gear during in game cut scenes actually show up properly.
It just seems...lazy?
Is that it? Is lazy even the right word to describe this?
Bioware, "Hey guys! We get it! We really do! (Even though we don't...) "
I understand...it probably takes effort desiging assets(read: gear) to look slightly different on all the different character models. It probably takes effort to ensure that the different looking characters in their different looking gear during in game cut scenes actually show up properly.
It just seems...lazy?
Is that it? Is lazy even the right word to describe this?
Bioware, "Hey guys! We get it! We really do! (Even though we don't...) "
True, but personally I'm kind of hoping they go with two or three new designs per character as you get the right sets of equipment (probably through quests related to them) that'll stick so you'd still get that sense of progression but they don't worry about "one size fits all" design.WanderingWind said:
bigdaddygamebot
Member
kswiston said:
DA II wasn't a misstep. It was a 180 degree turn but not before Bioware gave the middle finger to long term Bioware RPG players/fans.
The best part was the spin that came after with various interviews, review manipulation, and the whole, "Yeah...we can understand that some of our fans might have thought we were giving them the finger, but really, we were just telling them that they were No. #1...really!"
Gvaz said:
eh, I prefer what they are saying they are doing in DA3. I want complete customization, but I also wan't my characters to have a specific, unique look to them - and if its ass, be able to change it. I dislike having all my characters in generic armor 2. I just find it rather boring.
HP_Wuvcraft said:
I don't profess to be some gaming industry insider either, but its common knowledge at this point that March is the last month of the fiscal year for game publishers, thats why you're seeing more big titles come out in that time frame. DA:O was successful, DA2 was highly anticipated. More sales equal higher fourth quarter earnings which mean higher earnings for fiscal year 2010. DA2 was positioned as a March release to boost earnings, its abundantly clear that many corners were cut to make the date. If DA2 is developed properly, it doesn't make that date. This really isn't tinfoil hat territory.
DaBuddaDa said:
True, but that just sounds like a huge gigantic pain. I mean, how would drops work if each item is unique to each character? You'd basically have to increase the drop rate of items a ton and drop more items from each kill as well.
Now, if you only had like 3 characters to outfit then that would be fine, but I dont want only 3 characters. And 8 characters, each with a unique drop, each critter dropping a ton of items and more items to boot would just start to annoy me. Found an awesome pair of boots? Well, too bad its for character C, and you don't use character C cause he is an annoying little prat. Better luck next time
Hopefully the "saving the world from itself" premise does not include yet another contrived evil/villain who exists to send the player to 4 quest hubs before the final confrontation. I liked Irenicus, but after Malak, The Reapers, The Archdemon, etc., I wouldn't mind if Bioware gave their epic-style stories a brief rest for a more personal tale. I recognize that DA 2 attempted such a feat, only to fail spectacularly when compared to other character-driven plots like MoTB and Torment, but I'd like them to have another go at it with DA 3.