I think the idea is you have to be a genius. But obviously people are probably overall a bunch smarter.
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The General Star Trek Thread of Earl Grey Tea, Baseball, and KHHHAAAANNNN
- Thread starter The Librarian
- Start date
I think the idea is you have to be a genius. But obviously people are probably overall a bunch smarter.
Escape Goat
Member
wasn't Wesley applying for early entrance?
This episode never made any sense to me. There's far too many people in Starfleet for its entrance requirements to be even as stringent as shown in that episode. I don't even mean the material they're supposed to know and whether you have to be a genius or not, but they seriously could only take one out of the four? How many of these tests groups do they do? One per Starbase? I mean, even in the best of circumstances that process will net them maybe fifty or sixty, hell let's be generous and say one hundred recruits to Starfleet a year? With a fleet full of starships staffed with five to ten times that many Starfleet personnel on each ship how are they even keeping up?
Yes, Starfleet Academy is the officer corps training program but there are also enlisted Starfleet crewman. I don't know if you have to be an actual genius but the entrance requirements seem really high.
Despite the show being focused on primarily officer-rank characters, the ships are quite full of various enlisted ranks, like Yeomen, Technicians, Petty Officers, Chief Petty Officers, etc. Even poor Miles O'Brien was just a Senior Chief Petty Officer by the end of DS9. (despite being called any number of different ranks throughout the two series in which he appeared)
No, it's all new footage.
That's what I thought.
I don't think it'd be reasonable to judge overall enrolment based on starbases. Colonies would provide, presumably, far more recruits. And Earth and other Federation homeplanets even more. Kids in space are, presumably, quite rare given that it was a novelty of the Enterprise-D.
Also, I'd expect most crews to be closer to the Enterprise-A than the Enterprise-D's, so 500 to 1000 crewmembers per ship strikes me as an exceptionally high estimate.
I'm not sure that's really true, at least in the context of TNG. There seemed to be quite a few enlisted in TOS, but in TNG even the grunts seemed to be mostly at least ensigns, which is the lowest officer rank. Begs the question of who exactly Chief O'Brien was actually the chief of.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
I know that some people resent not being promoted and such, but in an egalitarian future, it's a bit weird that you'd have class stratification of that order.
Of course, I suppose that's what happens when you base your entire space force on the military. lol
The Librarian
Banned
The engineers on the station.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
He was a non-com. In the same way that somehow Master Chief is the most badass guy in the Halo universe but he is outranked by every officer because they decided that Spartans couldn't be officers or something. (I don't know crap about Halo)
I guess it's weird because anyone can be chiefs regardless of rank in the Star Trek universe. Or something.
On the Enterprise. DS9 obviously expanded the petty officer count, but I'm talking about TNG here.
I suspect Gene Roddenberry felt the same way, and that's why there weren't really any enlisted people in TNG, especially out of the gate. Not sure when O'Brien first got referred to as chief, for that matter.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Honestly, they had no idea what they were doing since they probably thought he'd be a background character.
Rank insignia are so often wrong/inconsistent in Star Trek so it tends to be better to go by what people say. I don't remember him ever being referred to as a lieutenant, but definitely as a chief, in TNG.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
I guess it begs the question of who is doing the "menial" labour. Ten Forward and the barber shop are run by civilians, I believe, but we never see who does things like fix the turbolifts if they ever get stuck or vacuum the carpets. I can't imagine you'd have someone who did 4 years of the Academy and assign them to the janitorial staff.
I guess both Worf and Geordi were never referred to as "chief" even though they are chief security officer and chief engineer respectively.
Ah well, I honestly think we're thinking about this a lot more than the writers ever did. lol
Thug Waffle
Member
Nah, this seems entirely like something that was intentionally thought about and done by Gene, it fits right into the notion that he was hell bent on presenting a super-egalitarian future in TNG that didn't really work as well as he hoped it would.
Re. other chiefs, I think that's just like captain. The captain of a boat or starship is not necessarily captain in rank (in either direction, the captain of a flagship in a navy is an admiral of some sort for example).
If we want to get into weird rank stuff, though, nothing beats the 2009 show's notion that people can become captains right out of the academy. Though even Star Trek 2 kind of implied that you don't necessarily come out of the academy as an ensign. Savik seemed to be a lieutenant right out of the gate.
It wasn't til Season 4 that O'Brien really became a major character. They finally give him a first name and background at that point. Up until then he was always just Chief etc. which could have meant anything as he was Transporter Chief.
Roddenberry's early vision was a Starfleet of nothing but officers by TNG era.
O'Brien ended up being one of the more relatable characters across TNG and DS9. Good example of a background character developing into a lead.
Roddenberry's early vision was a Starfleet of nothing but officers by TNG era.
O'Brien ended up being one of the more relatable characters across TNG and DS9. Good example of a background character developing into a lead.
SirIgbyCeaser
Banned
Chief O'Brian was in charge of the transporter. So he had a station and worked under Gordi.
I'm like 10 episodes away from finishing deep space nine, pretty great for someone who loved TNG, and saw all the episodes.
Looking for logic on the Next Generation as it applied to jobs and titles is silly.
A child piloted the Enterprise for many of its important missions. And another pilot got to be chief engineer.
This is a ship with more than 1,000 people on it. I can only imagine it carried a full complement of trained pilots and engineers.
A child piloted the Enterprise for many of its important missions. And another pilot got to be chief engineer.
This is a ship with more than 1,000 people on it. I can only imagine it carried a full complement of trained pilots and engineers.
Looking for logic in anything in star trek is silly, but it's also a time honoured and sacred tradition.
Escape Goat
Member
Geordi was a shuttle specialist and a highly trained pilot. So its not as if he was unqualified to be an engineer.
pretty sure that's not how those professions work
SpoonyBard
Banned
I just like to think that he was required to do some bridge duty before he could become the chief engineer.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Guys, Enterprise vs Death Star. Who wins?!
viewtifulsub
Member
17 seasons later, I think I'm getting tired of the cave studio sets they've been using since TNG.
Come on now, at least make it a fight. Death Star. Particularly the second one.
(yes, this was the sort of thing I had in mind)
The Librarian
Banned
The ensigns or lieutenant junior grades under his command. He was a lieutenant on the Enterprise.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Come on now, at least make it a fight. Death Star. Particularly the second one.
(yes, this was the sort of thing I had in mind)
If it's the incomplete Death Star 2, the Enterprise could launch shuttles to shoot the core while performing the Picard Maneuver in order to avoid being hit by the beam!
Boy, from officer to enlisted, that's quite the rank downgrade. Did he puke in Picard's shoes or something?
I had a dream in which I was wearing TNG uniform footy pajamas. Someone make this.
Too many "bloody cardies" comments got him put on notice.
Too many "bloody cardies" comments got him put on notice.
Rei no Otaku
Member
I don't believe he was. During that one episode where Barcly was scared of transporters and he ordered O'Brien to do something. He said he had to because he outranked him. Barcly was only a lieutenant.
Rei no Otaku
Member
Yeah, but considering when he was referred to as lieutenant was so early on, before his character was a serious part of the show, I don't really think it counts. Once he became important he was solidified as a chief petty officer.
The Librarian
Banned
What do you mean so early on? He was a lieutenant from seasons 2-5.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
How else do you think he got assigned to the shithole of the Galaxy.
lunchtoast
Member
I watched the episode where they got stuck on that jungle planet with the machine that made those gold flying things that got more advanced after they destroyed it and Geordi had the command. Then he got confidence from Troi's cleavage to lead the ensigns to victory by flying near the atmosphere and something with the shields and won.
He also mentioned the Enterprise has around 1000 people aboard. I thought it was a lot bigger than that. Carriers have 5000+, I figured a space vessel would have 5-10k with all that deep space traveling. Or maybe a lot of the space goes to supplies and such.
He also mentioned the Enterprise has around 1000 people aboard. I thought it was a lot bigger than that. Carriers have 5000+, I figured a space vessel would have 5-10k with all that deep space traveling. Or maybe a lot of the space goes to supplies and such.
SpoonyBard
Banned
Most of the ships are cruisers, and TOS era ships used to be lot smaller, with engines taking most of the space. I really liked how big the shuttle bay used to be in Enterprise A, taking a relatively large part of the engineering section.
GungHo
Single-handedly caused Exxon-Mobil to sue FOX, start World War 3
You mean you didn't have to take a course in mechanical engineering before Honda gave you your keys?
A lot of roles would almost certainly have been automated by then, so there's no need for that many crew. Consider also that much of the ship is supposedly unfinished space for future use, such as for new science labs and such. There's allegedly even a functional cetacean lab aboard. That and even the smallest quarters would be large enough to fit around 4-6 bunks on today's vessels.
Spider from Mars
tap that thorax
Did the holodeck auto-clean itself after Barclay used it or was there a janitor who had to clean all that spunk up?
Info is out on the ST:TNG Season 3 Blu-Ray collection...
http://www.startrek.com/article/tng-blu-ray-bonanza-coming-in-april
http://www.startrek.com/article/tng-blu-ray-bonanza-coming-in-april
- Set will be released April 30.
- There will be another gag reel.
- The Best of Both Worlds double episode will be available in its entirety as a separate Blu-Ray purchase. (BoBW Part 1 is also included in the Season 3 collection.)
- The Season 3 collection will be US$130, and the BoBW feature will be US$28.28.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Trekmovie.com is reporting that instead (or possibly in addition to) a season 3 theatrical event, they're just going to go with a Best of Both Worlds theatrical screening.
http://trekmovie.com/2013/02/04/sta...-april-30th-tng-theater-screening-april-25th/
http://trekmovie.com/2013/02/04/sta...-april-30th-tng-theater-screening-april-25th/
Excellent! April 25, eh? Clearing my calendar now. (I don't have a calendar. Or anything to clear.)
That makes sense given the episode, though I had been hoping it would be Yesterdays Enterprise and BoBW part 1. Definitely going to see it in theater when it happens, the S2 one was great.
Henchmen21
Banned
Yeah just read about it and it's kind of stupid how they're giving BOBW it's on exclusive features but then it wouldn't be Paramount if they didn't try and gauge the fans.
edit: Trailer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n85J7KYOtAg
Escape Goat
Member
I watched a couple Voyager episodes today. Its amazing how of the 3 episodes I watched all of them had to shoehorn a battle sequence in. Sparks fly out of consoles and the cast give status reports even when the episode is not an action episode. Its a stark contrast to TNG where action was limited due to budget/lack of CGI. They had to rely more on story than cheap action sequences.