The General Star Trek Thread of Earl Grey Tea, Baseball, and KHHHAAAANNNN

Duane Cunningham said:
Wolf in the Fold - One of my least favorites of all so far. It starts out pretty good with the fellas visiting a brothel and a murder mystery, but the killer turns out to be the dismembered spirit of Jack the Ripper?? What the HELL. And the process by which they figure that out is ridiculous... one of the victims (the Mayors wife) said a weird word just before she was killed. They google the word and figure out that it's an alternate name for Jack the Ripper, then correctly conclude that it must be him in spirit possessing everybody.
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Yeah, it's ridiculously tenuous. Presented with the same evidence I'd far sooner come to a theory like out-of-his-mind Scotty being unconsciously influenced by a famous killer.
CarbonatedFalcon said:
Anyway, the temporal Cold War thing could end up being an interesting plot thread (last episode I saw was with that religious star thing). Does it run the series, or just Season 1? The seal on that door is clearly going to be broken at some point.
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It pops in occasionally, getting pretty finished up very early season 4.
 
Duane Cunningham said:
Next up is The Gamesters of Triskelion...
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I wager three hundred quatloos that he won't like this one!

(I found it enjoyable in some spots, for the pure hamminess factor, but I totally recognize that it's a pretty junk ep)



Oh, man, I understand the love for Unification, but I really want to see the Enterprise D explode over and over again on the big screen. Generations just didn't cut it.

"REPEAT! ALL HANDS ABANDON-"


edit:

Say, regarding Unification… I never quite considered it God Tier as most do, but among you who do, does it make the episode any less great now that you know that, essentially, the plot of "Unification, part III" was "Spock left Romulus, which exploded. So did Vulcan. They're together now, in pieces."

Hmm. I said the above in a sort of joking way, but my query is serious. Sometimes you don't know how good an episode is, because it has an open ending, and the goodness of the episode is affected by future follow-through. Does this apply at all?
 
I don't think Unification is harmed any more than any other Romulan episode by that.

And though it's something I doubt we'll ever see, I think the fates of Vulcan and Romulus in the split universes could lead to some interesting unification stories. Even were they to come back together, in one universe the population would be 90/10 Vulcan/Romulan, and in the other it would be 10/90, leading to very different end results.
 
So last episode of Enterprise I finished last night was "Dear Doctor". Honestly, I think it may have been one if the best Trek episodes I've ever seen. The premise was very good.
 
I'm watching DS9 for the first time and just saw the episode "The Visitor." Wow, what a fantastic episode. Haven't been so emotionally attached to a piece of television in a long time. Might have to do with the fact that I have a son, but it just really hit all the right notes with me.
 
CarbonatedFalcon said:
So last episode of Enterprise I finished last night was "Dear Doctor". Honestly, I think it may have been one if the best Trek episodes I've ever seen. The premise was very good.
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I actually think it's one of the worst forty-five minutes of television ever made, and I generally enjoyed Enterprise. It's offensive.
 
Watching Voyager again, it still amazes me how much they screwed up the whole Maquis thing. Chakotay fits right into the first officer's role without any challenge to his authority, any snide remarks from Starfleet officers who might feel aggrieved that a Maquis has jumped them for promotion, or that other Maquis crew are doing the same throughout the ship. They briefly show signs of dissent from some other members of the Maquis and Chakotay has to bring them in line, but to my mind it was never as major a theme on the show as it should have been.

Also, they effectively kill any chances for an interesting Tom Paris in the very first episode, as the only problematic encounters on board caused by his past mistakes are all resolved there and then, when the first officer and doctor are killed and when Paris puts himself in harms way to save Chakotay's life.
 
Been going through Voyager properly for the first time (had only seen a few episodes here and there) and I'm midway through the second season. So far... Eh...

It's an incredibly middling show. Seriously, I wouldn't give ANY episode so far a 10 or even a 9. Even an 8 is stretching it. Everything seems to be in the 5-7 range. Watchable, but just barely holding my interest. And it isn't just the plots that are middling. The characters are pretty uninteresting compared to other trek shows too (I'd say Voyagers crew is roughly on par with Enterprise's crew... Not a good thing). The Doctor is the only great character on the show. Although, I do have a bit of a soft spot for Tom Paris, and Tuvok's ok. Boy is Neelix annoying though. Every time he opens his mouth I just want someone to punch him...

I just wish there had been some early standout episodes, like the other shows had. Something like Measure of a Man or Q Who or even Conspiracy on TNG. Or Duet on DS9.

Speaking of Duet, I watched it again the other night. WOW. I completely forgot how good that episode is. Absolutely amazing acting by the guest star. Very emotional episode without coming across as cheesy in the slightest; it was actually quite affecting.
 
That's my experience with Voyager as well. It's still Trek, so I enjoy that part, but it's just something to watch most of the time. A few good or fun episodes here and there, but yeah. I'm not as hard on it as a lot of people though.
 
squid said:
Been going through Voyager properly for the first time (had only seen a few episodes here and there) and I'm midway through the second season. So far... Eh...

It's an incredibly middling show. Seriously, I wouldn't give ANY episode so far a 10 or even a 9. Even an 8 is stretching it. Everything seems to be in the 5-7 range. Watchable, but just barely holding my interest. And it isn't just the plots that are middling. The characters are pretty uninteresting compared to other trek shows too (I'd say Voyagers crew is roughly on par with Enterprise's crew... Not a good thing). The Doctor is the only great character on the show. Although, I do have a bit of a soft spot for Tom Paris, and Tuvok's ok. Boy is Neelix annoying though. Every time he opens his mouth I just want someone to punch him...

I just wish there had been some early standout episodes, like the other shows had. Something like Measure of a Man or Q Who or even Conspiracy on TNG. Or Duet on DS9.

Speaking of Duet, I watched it again the other night. WOW. I completely forgot how good that episode is. Absolutely amazing acting by the guest star. Very emotional episode without coming across as cheesy in the slightest; it was actually quite affecting.
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The series certainly does "improve" after season 2. The Kazon were just a terrible villain, and it was good to move on.
 
DrForester said:
The series certainly does "improve" after season 2. The Kazon were just a terrible villain, and it was good to move on.
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I did like the contrast between being the most advanced ship by far with being terribly outnumbered. It could have been handled better though.
 
Just finished watching the first episode of Next Gen and enjoyed it. Couple of weeks ago I watched the Star Trek movie directed by J.J. Abrams and enjoyed that as well. These are my real first exposure to the series outside of watching an episode of Next Gen when I was little and seeing the Nemesis movie, both which I remember nothing about. So far I’m enjoying what I’ve seen but there’s a lot more to go.
 
Got myself an used copy of Captain's Logs: The Complete Trek Voyages, because it was so cheap, but looks like I should have invested in more recent copy, this book is damn interesting. And even after being a trek fan for over 20 years, I had no idea of all the background stuff that happened in those early years. Based on this book Gene L. Coon had a huge role as showrunner during the later half of season 1 and the whole season 2, when most of the best episodes were made, and when the characters and the universe were defined better.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Gene_L._Coon

Also the episode guide for the already written Star Trek Phase 2 episodes was excellent. Looks like they even used some of those episode ideas in Voyager...
 
SpoonyBard said:
Got myself an used copy of Captain's Logs: The Complete Trek Voyages, because it was so cheap, but looks like I should have invested in more recent copy, this book is damn interesting. And even after being a trek fan for over 20 years, I had no idea of all the background stuff that happened in those early years. Based on this book Gene L. Coon had a huge role as showrunner during the later half of season 1 and the whole season 2, when most of the best episodes were made, and when the characters and the universe were defined better.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Gene_L._Coon

Also the episode guide for the already written Star Trek Phase 2 episodes was excellent. Looks like they even used some of those episode ideas in Voyager...
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I have that book. It was my autograph book in the 90's. Got about half of Voyager and DS9's cast.
 
DrForester said:
I have that book. It was my autograph book in the 90's. Got about half of Voyager and DS9's cast.
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Cool.

You know, I have always heard how Roddenberry had some bad ideas, and was not a very good writer... But only after reading this book I'm starting to see that it may be true. Seems like Roddenberry's big ideas were good, but he was never good with details, and writing lacked the wit other people writing for the show had. Okay, I'll continue reading tonight...
 
My sound professor got some footage from STiD. He explained the scene he saw, and apparently JayJay didn't direct this particular scene because he was so busy doing other stuff.

Nice to hear that quality dialogue from the first movie makes a return. Also sounded stupid from what I heard. I'll post specifics if you guys want to read about it.
 
Okay, so I have a lot I'd like to talk about, but honestly it would take too long to mention everything.

I'm on Season 3 of Enterprise now, 2 episodes down. I know you guys talked about it before, but just hearing it for myself, wow the remixed intro song is completely at odds with the darker tone this season has taken.

2-23 Regeneration was good. Borg episodes are always fun and the tie-in to First Contact was icing on the cake. But I'm pretty sure this means we don't see any more Borg in Enterprise.

I didn't respond before, but I did change my opinion of Dear Doctor somewhat after I thought about it for a few days and saw the SF Debris review. I believe it's Cogenitor (2-22) that kind of lampshades how inconsistent Archer has been with those kinds of decisions when he's talking to Trip. It kind of makes sense though - humanity's first deep space mission, encountering new alien races - they're going to make mistakes with no set doctrine in place. Speaking of - Cogenitor does a similar storyline, but much better.

Dug the S2 finale and liking S3 a lot so far. Budget seems to have gone up a bit, but that could just be the first couple episodes.
 
CarbonatedFalcon said:
I'm on Season 3 of Enterprise now, 2 episodes down. I know you guys talked about it before, but just hearing it for myself, wow the remixed intro song is completely at odds with the darker tone this season has taken.
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I know, it's ridiculous.

2-23 Regeneration was good. Borg episodes are always fun and the tie-in to First Contact was icing on the cake. But I'm pretty sure this means we don't see any more Borg in Enterprise.
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Yep.

I didn't respond before, but I did change my opinion of Dear Doctor somewhat after I thought about it for a few days and saw the SF Debris review. I believe it's Cogenitor (2-22) that kind of lampshades how inconsistent Archer has been with those kinds of decisions when he's talking to Trip. It kind of makes sense though - humanity's first deep space mission, encountering new alien races - they're going to make mistakes with no set doctrine in place. Speaking of - Cogenitor does a similar storyline, but much better.
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Also yep.

Dug the S2 finale and liking S3 a lot so far. Budget seems to have gone up a bit, but that could just be the first couple episodes.
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I don't know if the budget went up that much, as much as they got more ambitious with what they were trying to do.
 
Sir Fragula said:
Apparently one of the Star Trek Online dev's interviews in an upcoming podcast is going to mention how JJ Abrams originally wanted to destroy more than just Romulus in the "prime" universe, and that Star Trek Online was the reason he wasn't able to.

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...d.php?t=575801
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I can't imagine someone at Paramount telling Abrams that he couldn't do something because of a video game though...
 
firehawk12 said:
I can't imagine someone at Paramount telling Abrams that he couldn't do something because of a video game though...
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my guess is that they wanted the prime universe to be in a salvageable state for future projects in case the reboot didn't work out, and STO was just happened to be the next thing.
 
Htown said:
my guess is that they wanted the prime universe to be in a salvageable state for future projects in case the reboot didn't work out, and STO was just happened to be the next thing.
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Yeah, I'd assume it was just the excuse they pointed to more than really caring too much about Online. (I've always assumed that Paramount isn't going to hold anyone to Online's whole "Path to" timeline in the books or if they started a new series anyway.)

I still don't get why they wanted to tie the reboot to the original continuity. Are they really caught up in making it the ONLY continuity?

SpoonyBard said:
You know, I have always heard how Roddenberry had some bad ideas, and was not a very good writer... But only after reading this book I'm starting to see that it may be true. Seems like Roddenberry's big ideas were good, but he was never good with details, and writing lacked the wit other people writing for the show had. Okay, I'll continue reading tonight...
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I have a copy of this book: http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/The_Making_of_Star_Trek

It's a really great one to track down. It has memos and letters to/from Roddenberry while everything is starting from scratch. (There's a series of back and forth where they're trying to come up with Captain names and then names for alien races, etc.) Budget and casting sheets, etc. Also has the original The Cage script when I believe Spock was still a Martian or whatever and it was Captain April.

Plus it's from when Gene bailed out before Trek took off and NBC was trying to kill it, so he's sorta negative on the whole concept, process and franchise.
 
Watching DS9 again, and am up to season 4. One little continuity touch I love is when Worf storms into Odo's office with the thief. Worf then tries to berate Odo for station security lapses and says it never happened on the Enterprise. Odo and Worf had butted heads a few times this season, and I just love how Odo has been waiting for Worf to say that, and pulls out a pre-prepared padd with all the Enterprise security breeches and begins to name them off.
 
DrForester said:
Watching DS( again, and am up to season 4. One little continuity touch I love is when Worf storms into Odo's office with the thief. Worf then tries to berate Odo for station security lapses and says it never happened on the Enterprise. Odo and Worf had butted heads a few times this season, and I just love how Odo has been waiting for Worf to say that, and pulls out a pre-prepared padd with all the Enterprise security breeches and begins to name them off.
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DS9 did a lot of things right and one of those was bring Worf into the show.
 
Just watched Tuvix. Fuck off Janeway, forgot how much I despise her at the end of this one and, by extension, the whole bridge crew that just stands there and lets march a unique lifeform that posed no threat to his death.
 
Bootaaay said:
Just watched Tuvix. Fuck off Janeway, forgot how much I despise her at the end of this one and, by extension, the whole bridge crew that just stands there and lets march a unique lifeform that posed no threat to his death.
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I seem to have a total opposite stance towards that episode than the rest of GAF. Its such a moral gray area that it actually becomes a compelling inner conflict for Janeway. Which is something that rarely happened.
 
Only thing off on Tuvix for me was that NO ONE stood up for him. I actually like the characterization of Janeway in it, doing something totally out of emotion.
 
Escape Goat said:
I seem to have a total opposite stance towards that episode than the rest of GAF. Its such a moral gray area that it actually becomes a compelling inner conflict for Janeway. Which is something that rarely happened.
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It just seemed such an alarming step to me, especially after we established just a few episodes previously that Janeway balked at the thought of executing a serial killer. Once Tuvix refused to go through with the procedure, that should have been the end of it in my eyes. Only the Doctor spoke up and only because of his medical oath. Also, you could say that, given Voyager's situation, allowing Tuvix to survive would have been the more pragmatic option, as one man uses half the resources of two. But, of course, flying in the face of all logic Voyager never much concerned itself with dwindling resources.
 
DrForester said:
Only thing off on Tuvix for me was that NO ONE stood up for him. I actually like the characterization of Janeway in it, doing something totally out of emotion.
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I agree with this. It was fucking creepy to watch. Other than that, Janeway was sacrificing one life for two. One for two.
 
Dax01 said:
I agree with this. It was fucking creepy to watch. Other than that, Janeway was sacrificing one life for two. One for two.
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Janeway murdered one person for the possibility of bringing two dead people back to life. That's a very different thing.
 
maharg said:
Janeway murdered one person for the possibility of bringing two dead people back to life. That's a very different thing.
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It's still in the principle of allowing one person to die so two people can live. Two for one. If I were in Neelix or Tuvok's position I would still want to live. Obviously in the real world you wouldn't encounter a situation where "killing" someone would bring two people back from the dead, but this is Star Trek after all.
 
No, it really is not even remotely in that principle. There was no hero's dilemma. Janeway murdered a person in cold blood, while he begged and pleaded for his life, in order to perform necromancy. You put it in scare quotes as if she just let him fall off a bridge while saving some children or something, but that's not what she did. If you're going to defend it, at least own up to what it was.
 
maharg said:
No, it really is not even remotely in that principle. There was no hero's dilemma. Janeway murdered a person in cold blood, while he begged and pleaded for his life, in order to perform necromancy. You put it in scare quotes as if she just let him fall off a bridge while saving some children or something, but that's not what she did. If you're going to defend it, at least own up to what it was.
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I didn't put anything in "scare quotes." I disagree that it isn't in that principle. She was choosing two lives over one that was created by accident, and two people who would want to live.
 
And part of that choice was deliberately, consciously, and with forethought ending a life.

I don't get to shoot someone just because I pulled a kid off a ledge.
 
DrForester said:
Only thing off on Tuvix for me was that NO ONE stood up for him. I actually like the characterization of Janeway in it, doing something totally out of emotion.
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Ya I remember watching this and just shaking my head at all those fucking assholes for not fighting Janeway. You could have had some good dynamics going if anyone defended him but no, they were all complicit. Tuvix was too good for that inept crew.
 
I'm willing to go back in time and unmake Enterprise, just so we can avoid the Klingon mutation retcon. I know I might not make it back...but it seems like a worthwhile sacrifice.
 
akira28 said:
I'm willing to go back in time and unmake Enterprise, just so we can avoid the Klingon mutation retcon. I know I might not make it back...but it seems like a worthwhile sacrifice.
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Seemed like a good retcon to me. It helps to explain why the battle hungry warrior Klingons have avoided genetic engineering to create super soldiers when the technology exists.
 
Big-E said:
Ya I remember watching this and just shaking my head at all those fucking assholes for not fighting Janeway. You could have had some good dynamics going if anyone defended him but no, they were all complicit. Tuvix was too good for that inept crew.
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The Doctor refused to do it. Which is, frankly, a deep and unsettling condemnation all on its own.
 
Zzoram said:
Seemed like a good retcon to me. It helps to explain why the battle hungry warrior Klingons have avoided genetic engineering to create super soldiers when the technology exists.
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Warriors wouldn't rely on scientific cheats. It would dampen their warrior spirit and make them weak to rely on genetic engineering for super soldiers. They killed their own gods, man. It was a bad idea made worse with clumsy execution. It was rumored prior that they were just a minor race within Klingon society, but that retcon really shat the bed.
 
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