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The General Star Trek Thread of Earl Grey Tea, Baseball, and KHHHAAAANNNN

GungHo

Single-handedly caused Exxon-Mobil to sue FOX, start World War 3
Oh fuck, a Lwaxana episode :(

Yeah, it's like having the drunk aunt-by-marriage over for dinner. You know she's gonna get plastered. You know something's gonna get broken. You're just hoping the social faux pas stop at the occasional hand on your ass and don't progress to a tongue down your throat.
 

mkenyon

Banned
That was my point, how could Odo justify what he'd have to do? The episode was hardly perfect, we would have been far better off with less melodrama than what Mr. Brooks gave us. Maybe it wasn't as bad as Shatner reading the US constitution in Omega Glory, but what is?
The episode serves to show that Sisko (and by extension the Federation) are capable of the same consequentialist rationalizations that the leading Cardassians seem to live by.
 
Why would Odo do it if he couldn't justify it to himself? You're not making any sense, and there's no melodrama in "In the Pale Moonlight" outside of "It's a faaaaake!"

I'm pretty sure that what I wrote is fully understandable. And Avery Brooks is a often terrible actor, him playing alone to the camera giving the log entries is painful. I may have low tolerance for certain types of overacting, but still, those scenes were clearly melodramatic.
 
I'm pretty sure that what I wrote is fully understandable. And Avery Brooks is a often terrible actor, him playing alone to the camera giving the log entries is painful. I may have low tolerance for certain types of overacting, but still, those scenes were clearly melodramatic.

What you're describing is not within Odo's character (let alone Jadzia's), so no, what you're writing isn't understandable. And Brooks is not a terrible actor, and his monolog entries were brilliant. Not at all melodramatic.
 

Pagusas

Elden Member
I personally still feel "The Visitor" is the most emotional Star Trek Episode. Also my favorite DS9 episode. I always choke up no matter how many times I see it.

70943-png.jpg


Whole DS9 Story Arch Spoiler:
Its even crazier to think that this episode suggest if Sisko had just died then the entire Dominion War would never have happened and all those billions of people who died in the war wouldn't have. Jakes choice to kill him self to break the link and let his father live cost billions of lives. So Sisko's choices are what lead to the war,the death of J.Dax and many others.
 
What you're describing is not within Odo's character (let alone Jadzia's), so no, what you're writing isn't understandable. And Brooks is not a terrible actor, and his monolog entries were brilliant. Not at all melodramatic.

Dax could have done it easily, she was ready to kill someone already in Blood Oath, second season. Odo doing it is more diffucult task for the writers, but hardly impossible. Making Odo do it would only be against the character if written that way.

It seems you have decided that ds9 is perfect as it is, and everyone who criticizes it is automatically wrong... Most people can accept that Shatner is not the best actor around, but still enjoy TOS, maybe you should realize that there are flaws in DS9 too.
 

bobeth

Member
I personally still feel "The Visitor" is the most emotional Star Trek Episode. Also my favorite DS9 episode. I always choke up no matter how many times I see it.

It's a great episode, the writers walked a fine line pulling our emotional strings without being too cheesy. Avery Brooks is at its best when emotions run high, and I always loved the fact Sisko has a particular softness he only displays towards his son.
 
Dax could have done it easily, she was ready to kill someone already in Blood Oath, second season. Odo doing it is more diffucult task for the writers, but hardly impossible. Making Odo do it would only be against the character if written that way.
Those situations aren't comparable, because the consequences of killing said person are far different. And we've already established Odo doing that is outside his character, so you do you write around that?
It seems you have decided that ds9 is perfect as it is, and everyone who criticizes it is automatically wrong... Most people can accept that Shatner is not the best actor around, but still enjoy TOS, maybe you should realize that there are flaws in DS9 too.
DS9 isn't perfect (one of my major disappointments with the show is how Dukat turned out). I just think the criticisms you're listing are either wrong or really, really stupid.
 
Those situations aren't comparable, because the consequences of killing said person are far different. And we've already established Odo doing that is outside his character, so you do you write around that? .

Bring up a situation where the character needs to examine his most important princibles, and make an uncharacteristic compromise decision in the end . Drama ensures. Hardly a difficult concept.

DS9 isn't perfect (one of my major disappointments with the show is how Dukat turned out). I just think the criticisms you're listing are either wrong or really, really stupid.

How can pointing out that mr. Brooks has severe limations in his acting skills be wrong or stupid? Some people have lower tolerance to overacting or underacting, I can tolerate underacting, but overacting can be unbearable in larger quantities.

And let's face it, most people put Damar well below Picard and Spock as their favourite characters. If they remember his name at all...
 
I'd be curious how they'd do that given the early season model usage and late season CG usage.

They'll have to redo the CG, it was done in video domain, and is quite low resolution compared to film material. But hey, maybe we'll get shields in later space battle scenes!
 

Pagusas

Elden Member
They'll have to redo the CG, it was done in video domain, and is quite low resolution compared to film material. But hey, maybe we'll get shields in later space battle scenes!

You think they'd still reuse the same battle footage over and over again?
 
Bring up a situation where the character needs to examine his most important princibles, and make an uncharacteristic comprise decision in the end . Drama ensures. Hardly a difficult concept.
You have a point here, but Odo is a very rigid character, and making him do something like assassinate a Romulan senator doesn't fit with his character, regardless of moral standing. You already said it'd be very difficult to write. Well, yeah, that's because it doesn't fit with him.
How can pointing out that mr. Brooks has severe limations in his acting skills be wrong or stupid? Some people have lower tolerance to overacting or underacting, I can tolerate underacting, but overacting can be unbearable in larger quantities.
But there's no overacting in the episode you mentioned aside from the aforementioned "It's a fake!".
And let's face it, most people put Damar well below Picard and Spock as their favourite characters. If they remember his name at all...
Damar is a better character than either Spock or Picard. And how well the character is remembered overall doesn't say anything about the quality of said character.
 
You have a point here, but Odo is a very rigid character, and making him do something like assassinate a Romulan senator doesn't fit with his character, regardless of moral standing. You already said it'd be very difficult to write. Well, yeah, that's because it doesn't fit with him.

Eh, at this point maybe we can agree to disagree. But I give you this first:

"There's something else the other Odo wanted you to know, he was responsible for changing the Defiant's flight plan."
"Why?"
"So that you wouldn't have to die."
"I can't believe it! Eight thousand people!"
"He did it for you, Nerys, he loved you."
"That makes it right?!?"
"I don't know. He thought so."

But there's no overacting in the episode you mentioned aside from the aforementioned "It's a fake!".

Sisko's monologue to the camera counts as overacting in my book. I actually liked "It's a fake!", it was funny.

Damar is a better character than either Spock or Picard. And how well the character is remembered overall doesn't say anything about the quality of said character.

Maybe, but you do understand that you are in a very small minority with this? To me it is inconceivable that someone would prefer Demar to Picard.
 
Eh, at this point maybe we can agree to disagree. But I give you this first:

"There's something else the other Odo wanted you to know, he was responsible for changing the Defiant's flight plan."
"Why?"
"So that you wouldn't have to die."
"I can't believe it! Eight thousand people!"
"He did it for you, Nerys, he loved you."
"That makes it right?!?"
"I don't know. He thought so."
Doesn't negate my point. That was an Odo over two-hundred years old, and obviously different from the Odo in the show.
Sisko's monologue to the camera counts as overacting in my book. I actually liked "It's a fake!", it was funny.
That's not making any sense, but okay.
Maybe, but you do understand that you are in a very small minority with this? To me it is inconceivable that someone would prefer Demar to Picard.
Given that you don't really remember anything about him, I don't know how you can argue otherwise.
 
Doesn't negate my point. That was an Odo over two-hundred years old, and obviously different from the Odo in the show.

They are close enough, and they linked, so the younger Odo has the older one's memories.

That's not making any sense, but okay.

One line of overacting is easy to tolerate, 15 minutes of it isn't.

Given that you don't really remember anything about him, I don't know how you can argue otherwise.

I remember enough, the character just isn't that interesting to me.
 
They are close enough, and they linked, so the younger Odo has the older one's memories.
That's not at all clear.
One line of overacting is easy to tolerate, 15 minutes of it isn't.
The ending monologue is seven minutes max, and there's no overacting in it.
I remember enough, the character just isn't that interesting to me.
From what you've said, I don't think you do.

Right! How could Damar possibly compare to Picard?
 

mkenyon

Banned
I'll second the Damar love. His arc was phenomenal, and extremely convincing at each step. Very organic to the point that you might even miss it if you don't take note.
 
I'll second the Damar love. His arc was phenomenal, and extremely convincing at each step. Very organic to the point that you might even miss it if you don't take note.

I would've agreed with Spoony about Damar if I had just finished the series for the first time. It took me several re-watches to appreciate him.
 
I'll second the Damar love. His arc was phenomenal, and extremely convincing at each step. Very organic to the point that you might even miss it if you don't take note.

I don't disagree with any of that (well, maybe phenomenal). I think I have watched the series 3 times from start to finish, and some episodes several times on top of that, but I still don't find that character very interesting. Dukat was more charismatic, but the ending of his character arc was weak. But still, Dukat and Garak are more memorable Cardassians to me.

Maybe this is also because I liked the build-up part of the whole story better than the resolution. Same with Babylon 5 and Galactica, the early seasons were better in my opinion.
 

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
Damar's arc was alright. Ultimately I think it was diminished by Kira and Garak never confronting him about Ziyal's death. The guy killed a child in cold blood and never faced any repercussions for it, yet we're supposed to feel sympathy for him.
 

MrBig

Member
Watching ToS for the first time. Huge contrast to the rest of the star trek series, which I have now finished watching in their entirety after Enterprise popped up on Hulu. Absolutely unable to enjoy any of the outmoded stories or messages they are trying to tell :/
 

mkenyon

Banned
Watching ToS for the first time. Huge contrast to the rest of the star trek series, which I have now finished watching in their entirety after Enterprise popped up on Hulu. Absolutely unable to enjoy any of the outmoded stories or messages they are trying to tell :/
Same. ToS and VOY are both unwatchable for me.
 

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
In the Runabout.
What? the comment of Kira's about the "who orders the death of children" remark from Damar? I thought that was pretty clearly talking about the occupation and Cardassians as a whole, not as a reference to Ziyal. After all, Damar didn't order her death, nor was her death ordered. He just did it.
 
What? the comment of Kira's about the "who orders the death of children" remark from Damar? I thought that was pretty clearly talking about the occupation and Cardassians as a whole, not as a reference to Ziyal. After all, Damar didn't order her death, nor was her death ordered. He just did it.

I thought the comment inferred it. Besides, complaining how Damar killed Ziyal so it's silly for us to make us feel sympathy for him is like saying we should've feel sorry for Bodie by the end of Season 4. It's amazing that we feel sorry for a guy who died by the end who killed someone in cold blood.
 

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
I thought the comment inferred it. Besides, complaining how Damar killed Ziyal so it's silly for us to make us feel sympathy for him is like saying we should've feel sorry for Bodie by the end of Season 4. It's amazing that we feel sorry for a guy who died by the end who killed someone in cold blod.

Well, it certainly an elephant in the room considering the two people Ziyal meant the most to were there. Like to think Garak would have shot him himself once the Dominion threat was gone.
 

CorrisD

badchoiceboobies
I always wonder how DS9 would have played out if Kira was Ro Laren like intended.

Better I would hope, I never really found Kira to be that interesting of a character as she was while I always thought Laren didn't get enough time, and I would also hope if it was Laren they wouldn't have shoved some stupid love interest with Odo in there too.
 
Better I would hope, I never really found Kira to be that interesting of a character as she was while I always thought Laren didn't get enough time, and I would also hope if it was Laren they wouldn't have shoved some stupid love interest with Odo in there too.

Odo love interest is best love interest in the series.

B'elanna and Paris sucks
Troi and Worf/Riker suchs
Picard and indian jones chick sucks

JDax and Worf
EDax and Doc B

are good but not as good as odo kiras
 

GungHo

Single-handedly caused Exxon-Mobil to sue FOX, start World War 3
Keiko and Miles were entertaining when Keiko wasn't being overbearing.
 
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