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[funkystudent]

DS9 did a great job evolving its characters or quickly seeing there was problems in the early episodes and fixing them.

Bashir is the text book example. In S1 he was a really annoying character who spent the entire season trying to get out of Dax's friend zone. But once they started teaming him up with O'Brien and making his character a bit more mature it did him wonders.

Same with Kiri. She was pretty terrible in early episodes but they turned her around quick.


I dont think anyone in TNG had any real character evolution throughout the series. Troi was still annoying in S7 as she was in S1. Data kind of changed a little but who knows if that was the actor trying to be a little more expressive since acting a emotionless android probably isnt very fun or was it part of the plan. I know the idea was Data would be more human by the end of the show then the start but it was never presented that way in practice.

I'm not half as hot on "The Visitor" as most people, but I'll concede that Tony Todd is a phenomenal Old Jake, yeah.

He's a great genre actor. I also love him as Haikon in Stargate SG-1 and Admiral Marcus Ramirez in Star Trek: Prelude to Axanar.

The Inner Light is my episode I am not super hot on.

I dont really have any major issues with it, it just didnt hit me like a lot of people.

 

[SpoonyBard]

I dont think anyone in TNG had any real character evolution throughout the series. Troi was still annoying in S7 as she was in S1. Data kind of changed a little but who knows if that was the actor trying to be a little more expressive since acting a emotionless android probably isnt very fun or was it part of the plan. I know the idea was Data would be more human by the end of the show then the start but it was never presented that way in practice.

Picard went through the most changes obviously, especially during the first four seasons. Season 1 Picard was not a nice guy. Meanwhile Riker became more relaxed, Worf less stupid and Geordi less nerdy. These are somewhat subtle and easy to ignore if you don't care about the characters, but I think this less hamfisted approach suits the series, and would have even made DS9 better if it was used there. There was no need to make Bashir a superhuma wonder kid, come on...

 

[Escape Goat]

DS9 did a great job evolving its characters or quickly seeing there was problems in the early episodes and fixing them.

Bashir is the text book example. In S1 he was a really annoying character who spent the entire season trying to get out of Dax's friend zone. But once they started teaming him up with O'Brien and making his character a bit more mature it did him wonders.

Same with Kiri. She was pretty terrible in early episodes but they turned her around quick.


I dont think anyone in TNG had any real character evolution throughout the series. Troi was still annoying in S7 as she was in S1. Data kind of changed a little but who knows if that was the actor trying to be a little more expressive since acting a emotionless android probably isnt very fun or was it part of the plan. I know the idea was Data would be more human by the end of the show then the start but it was never presented that way in practice.



The Inner Light is my episode I am not super hot on.

I dont really have any major issues with it, it just didnt hit me like a lot of people.

One of the complaints showrunners got about Kira was that she was too severe. From her hair to her behavior, she was seen as not possessing much femininity. You see her in subsequent seasons where she "lets her hair down" in episodes like when shes seen in the Temple praying or dressing up with Dax in the holosuite. They grew her hair out some as well to soften her image.

But even before you get to the physical side of Kira, her personality change was advanced considerably when we hit Duet. She wasn't totally accepting of Cardassians but she at least recognized her own prejudice now. As Kirk said before in regards to the Klingon "How does history get past people like me?"

Kira's evolution was my favorite to follow. Each season you can see her character explore new areas and evolve in believable ways.

 

[maharg]

One of the complaints showrunners got about Kira was that she was too severe. From her hair to her behavior, she was seen as not possessing much femininity. You see her in subsequent seasons where she "lets her hair down" in episodes like when shes seen in the Temple praying or dressing up with Dax in the holosuite. They grew her hair out some as well to soften her image.

But even before you get to the physical side of Kira, her personality change was advanced considerably when we hit Duet. She wasn't totally accepting of Cardassians but she at least recognized her own prejudice now. As Kirk said before in regards to the Klingon "How does history get past people like me?"

Kira's evolution was my favorite to follow. Each season you can see her character explore new areas and evolve in believable ways.

I really disliked the entire Kira+Odo arc. It really hampered her character, imo.

 

[Fuchsdh]

One of the complaints showrunners got about Kira was that she was too severe. From her hair to her behavior, she was seen as not possessing much femininity. You see her in subsequent seasons where she "lets her hair down" in episodes like when shes seen in the Temple praying or dressing up with Dax in the holosuite. They grew her hair out some as well to soften her image.

But even before you get to the physical side of Kira, her personality change was advanced considerably when we hit Duet. She wasn't totally accepting of Cardassians but she at least recognized her own prejudice now. As Kirk said before in regards to the Klingon "How does history get past people like me?"

Kira's evolution was my favorite to follow. Each season you can see her character explore new areas and evolve in believable ways.

Don't think it had much to do with her presentation of femininity for me, but she was too severe. I mean, I get what they were going for—I imagine most freedom fighters tend to be dogmatic—but from the very first scene she's just a complete dick and antagonistic to perfect strangers (Sisko, although Sisko also gets his "Lemmee be a dick to you about something that wasn't your fault" moment with Picard too, so I guess the douchebag ring was getting tossed around a lot in the pilot). It's like they were so focused on making it obvious how different the show would be to TNG that they just cranked everyone up to 11.

The only part of the pilot that doesn't suffer from it is probably the interplay between Dax and Sisko, and O'Brien, because O'Brien must suffer, always.

I don't think the Odo/Kira romance was all that great, but I don't think it undermined her character. If anything it hurt Odo's more (especially his "sorry I forgot about attacking the Dominion I was too buying banging my fellow changeling" arc.)

 

[funkystudent]

While we are talking I just got to the start of S4 of DS9. Only finished Episode 2 of S4 but so far during this rewatch I haven't been feeling Dax.

The character is just kind of there. Some ok stories about Trill stuff but other then that she is kind of ehhh. Maybe she will change during the Warf relationship.

 

[SpoonyBard]

While we are talking I just got to the start of S4 of DS9. Only finished Episode 2 of S4 but so far during this rewatch I haven't been feeling Dax.

The character is just kind of there. Some ok stories about Trill stuff but other then that she is kind of ehhh. Maybe she will change during the Warf relationship.

Never liked the SM stuff, even if it was played as comedy.

 

[JeffZero]

The Inner Light is my episode I am not super hot on.

I dont really have any major issues with it, it just didnt hit me like a lot of people.

I'm the same way with "The Inner Light", too, actually. I think those two episodes are the examples of things I've said that have caused loads of Trek fans to straight-up at me on the regular. Heh. Even my best friend, who's only ever seen ST09, STID, and two or three episodes of TNG, recently texted me and talked about a TNG ep he saw on TV that blew him away, and... it was "The Inner Light". It really works for most people, and that's cool. It just feels too heavy-handed for me, I guess -- same problem I have with "The Visitor". (That and I'm often told I'd need to have had a father figure in my life growing up to really "get" that ep, which I didn't, so eh.)

Anyway, on to other discussion segments!

Kira's evolution as a character is my single favorite thing in Star Trek, probably. I love the Kira/Odo romance, too, so there really isn't a single thing in those later seasons that I don't completely dig with regard to her role. The way her past collides with her present in The Final Chapter (TM) is just brilliant stuff and it really left a mark on my ten-year-old mind back during the initial airing.

Spoiler

Seeing her fight alongside Damar, teaching him -- Damar of all people, he who slew Ziyal! -- what it means to be a freedom fighter, the harsh realities of it and the setbacks and the pitfalls and the minor triumphs you celebrate in full because they're the only taste of pride you can afford to sample... it's all so good. And when she shoots Damar's too-patriotic lackey, and does so not because he's a Cardassian, but because he's the wrong kind of Cardassian. Man, it's just all so compelling and it ties in well with her development throughout the show.

What is the "SM" stuff mentioned in the previous post?

 

[Fuchsdh]

I'm the same way with "The Inner Light", too, actually. I think those two episodes are the examples of things I've said that have caused loads of Trek fans to straight-up at me on the regular. Heh. Even my best friend, who's only ever seen ST09, STID, and two or three episodes of TNG, recently texted me and talked about a TNG ep he saw on TV that blew him away, and... it was "The Inner Light". It really works for most people, and that's cool. It just feels too heavy-handed for me, I guess -- same problem I have with "The Visitor". (That and I'm often told I'd need to have had a father figure in my life growing up to really "get" that ep, which I didn't, so eh.)

Anyway, on to other discussion segments!

Kira's evolution as a character is my single favorite thing in Star Trek, probably. I love the Kira/Odo romance, too, so there really isn't a single thing in those later seasons that I don't completely dig with regard to her role. The way her past collides with her present in The Final Chapter (TM) is just brilliant stuff and it really left a mark on my ten-year-old mind back during the initial airing.

Spoiler

Seeing her fight alongside Damar, teaching him -- Damar of all people, he who slew ZIyal! -- what it means to be a freedom fighter, the harsh realities of it and the setbacks and the pitfalls and the minor triumphs you celebrate in full because they're the only taste of pride you can afford to sample... it's all so good. And when she shoots Damar's too-patriotic lackey, and does so not because he's a Cardassian, but because he's the wrong kind of Cardassian. Man, it's just all so compelling and it ties in well with her development throughout the show.

What is the "SM" stuff mentioned in the previous post?

Only thing I can think of is SM as in half of BDSM, because Dax and Worf apparently got into bone-breaking sexual encounters. Dunno if it's really masochism though if that's how the Klingons get their jollies.

 

[JeffZero]

Only thing I can think of is SM as in half of BDSM, because Dax and Worf apparently got into bone-breaking sexual encounters. Dunno if it's really masochism though if that's how the Klingons get their jollies.

Oh wow, my mind hadn't gone there at all. LOL. Good point, that could be it!

 

[Fuchsdh]

Oh wow, my mind hadn't gone there at all. LOL. Good point, that could be it!

It's entirely possible I went way dirtier there than OP was thinking

As for episodes, the only one that pops off my head for episodes people love I don't is probably "In the Pale Moonlight". It's not the Sisko losing his morals thing, it's that it never really has any bearing on the rest of the series, and the whole confessional log thing feels way too contrived for me.

 

[JeffZero]

As for episodes, the only one that pops off my head for episodes people love I don't is probably "In the Pale Moonlight". It's not the Sisko losing his morals thing, it's that it never really has any bearing on the rest of the series, and the whole confessional log thing feels way too contrived for me.

Ooh. I do love that one, admittedly. I'm right there with the masses for it. The log is pretty contrived. I suppose I get over that during rewatches because I feel it's some of Brooks' finest work, hands down. I'm cool with contrived if it leads to ~10 minutes of screentime of Avery Brooks in his "Sisko prime" bulldog-staring at me and confessing his sins as only Avery Brooks can, hah.

I don't know that I'd say it has no bearing, but I think I know what you mean. Sisko's guilt manages to be shoved aside, done away with, immediately after he orders the logs erased. And of course, no one who didn't already know what he did ever actually finds out.

But having the Romulans on the Federation's side... that definitely checks a few continuity boxes. It's a great victory -- they're even planning a "Welcome to the War Effort" party in the war room! (Or whatever he says.)

 

[Fuchsdh]

Ooh. I do love that one, admittedly. I'm right there with the masses for it. The log is pretty contrived. I suppose I get over that during rewatches because I feel it's some of Brooks' finest work, hands down. I'm cool with contrived if it leads to ~10 minutes of screentime of Avery Brooks in his "Sisko prime" bulldog-staring at me and confessing his sins as only Avery Brooks can, hah.

I don't know that I'd say it has no bearing, but I think I know what you mean. Sisko's guilt manages to be shoved aside, done away with, immediately after he orders the logs erased. And of course, no one who didn't already know what he did ever actually finds out.

But having the Romulans on the Federation's side... that definitely checks a few continuity boxes. It's a great victory -- they're even planning a "Welcome to the War Effort" party in the war room! (Or whatever he says.)

I think it's also that while I like Avery Brooks, I think he seriously follows the William Shatner School! Of! Acting! a little bit too much.

Non-continuity I can take or leave (I personally think "Year of Hell" and "Course: Oblivion" in Voyager, for instance, were actually stronger for not having a long-lasting impact on the series) but Sisko's push over the moral event horizon felt like it needed to get tied up. Would have been better to have that addressed in the finale rather than the "Jesus needs me" white void goodbye at least.

 

[JeffZero]

Would have been better to have that addressed in the finale rather than the "Jesus needs me" white void goodbye at least.

I like the finale a lot, but that's a hilarious (and somewhat apt, aye) comparison.

And you're right, Brooks' acting often gets! A little! Crazy! For me! Too! Somehow it just clicks for me in that particular ep, though, as it does so in several other big ones. (I love him in "Rocks and Shoals" too. Season 6 is basically Year of the Sisko, IMO.)

 

[Fuchsdh]

I like the finale a lot, but that's a hilarious (and somewhat apt, aye) comparison.

And you're right, Brooks' acting often gets! A little! Crazy! For me! Too! Somehow it just clicks for me in that particular ep, though, as it does so in several other big ones. (I love him in "Rocks and Shoals" too. Season 6 is basically Year of the Sisko, IMO.)

I mean, he's definitely entertaining, and he's a nice contrast with the other captains. I feel like if they were angry at you Janeway would make you feel like a hypocrite, Picard would make you feel like you'd failed dad, and Kirk would just say "whatever" and bang the nearest alien chick, but Sisko was the only one who really expressed himself being angry that openly. And angry black dude trope aside, it worked for his character.

 

[real_slime]

here's my rankings:

1. tng
2. ds9

none of the others register

here's my fav character rankings across both ds9 and tng

1. picard
2. sisko
3. garak
4. dukat (excluding the ending arc for him)
5. riker
6. julian
7. worf
8. crusher (yip, i like her episodes apart from the obvious bad one)
9. geordi
10. o'brien

now there is a severe gender imbalance there which i chalk up to star trek not being able to write women thus far. i'm hoping the new series when it comes on air is gonna change that by writing some fuckin women i can get into. it can be done. it has been done. come on star trek.

what do you guys think of my character ratings? it's always good fun to debate over this,

 

[Man God]

To be honest though if you've got no stomach for overacting then Star Trek isn't the show for you.

 

[maharg]

I mean, he's definitely entertaining, and he's a nice contrast with the other captains. I feel like if they were angry at you Janeway would make you feel like a hypocrite, Picard would make you feel like you'd failed dad, and Kirk would just say "whatever" and bang the nearest alien chick, but Sisko was the only one who really expressed himself being angry that openly. And angry black dude trope aside, it worked for his character.

What? Half the episodes of TOS end with Kirk basically doing an exasperated and angry ranty monologue at the people who've done stupid shit in the episode. And then he and Bones make fun of Spock for being Spock and Spock raises an eyebrow.

The banging happens early in the episode.

 

[real_slime]

didn't expect to find kevin nash in these parts. you just never know.

 

[Fuchsdh]

here's my rankings:

1. tng
2. ds9

none of the others register

here's my fav character rankings across both ds9 and tng

1. picard
2. sisko
3. garak
4. dukat (excluding the ending arc for him)
5. riker
6. julian
7. worf
8. crusher (yip, i like her episodes apart from the obvious bad one)
9. geordi
10. o'brien

now there is a severe gender imbalance there which i chalk up to star trek not being able to write women thus far. i'm hoping the new series when it comes on air is gonna change that by writing some fuckin women i can get into. it can be done. it has been done. come on star trek.

what do you guys think of my character ratings? it's always good fun to debate over this,

I don't think Star Trek has a problem writing women, it's just that aside from Voyager with Janeway and Seven*, they've never actually had a woman be the key characters who get the most development in the ensemble shows. Both TOS and TNG basically solely focused on their leads, and made everyone else background, especially in the films—in TOS it was Kirk, McCoy and Spock, and in TNG it was basically just Picard and Data. Probably DS9 was the most even-handed in giving its characters even time and stuff to grow off of, although once you get to recurring characters the women get the short shrift again (poor Keiko really only gets possessed by the Pah Wraiths and then disappear for two seasons at a time.)

*Speaking of which, while I think the "what does it mean to be human" character has been now played out for Star Trek, I do think that Seven was the most successful at fitting the role. Really the only downside to later Voyager when it came to those stories is that they basically just used Picardo and Ryan as crutches to carry some weak material.

 

[JeffZero]

Keiko, man. Keiko.

"What's wrong with the Chief? He seems extra cranky this morning."
"Oh, you know how it is. He just had to say goodbye to Keiko and Molly again for the rest of the season."
"Another trip to Bajor?"
"Yeah, we'll go with that."

 

[real_slime]

I don't think Star Trek has a problem writing women

and yet you proceed to explain several of the many reasons it does

break down your own rhetoric pal

 

[Henchmen21]

and yet you proceed to explain several of the many reasons it does

break down your own rhetoric pal

Tasha Yar was a step in the right direction...until she left the show.

 

[Cheerilee]

What? Half the episodes of TOS end with Kirk basically doing an exasperated and angry ranty monologue at the people who've done stupid shit in the episode. And then he and Bones make fun of Spock for being Spock and Spock raises an eyebrow.

The banging happens early in the episode.

My first thought for "angry Kirk" was this scene from Trouble With Tribbles, where he's laying down the law, but secretly he's loving it that his men are starting fights and getting into trouble (although Kirk was acting wonderfully trollish all day long in that episode).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rsZfcz3h1s

Although the next video that Youtube tried to launch was Kirk genuinely laying into Commodore Decker after he found out that Decker took command of the Enterprise and recklessly tried to use it to kill the Doomsday Weapon.

 

[Fuchsdh]

and yet you proceed to explain several of the many reasons it does

break down your own rhetoric pal

It's not a problem writing women, it's a question of a lack of representation of women. Different problem (although given that Star Trek's series have had a ton of different writers, that's another issue with a blanket statement. "Sub Rosa" was written by two women, anyhow, so sex doesn't have that much to do with a lot of it.)

Additionally, while you're always going to get someone tut-tutting "problematic" a lot of the perceived issues are only in an aggregate. "Space Seed" is an excellent episode, and McGivers getting psychologically cowed by basically the man she's apparently dreamed of her entire life doesn't strike me as an issue; shockingly lots of people don't have the healthiest of relationships. If you want to point out that it's another "professional women... crazy, right?" moment in the original series, you've got much more of a salient point.

Also, looking up some of the instances of sexism or perceived sexism in Star Trek led me to his hoot of an article: https://diversitychronicle.wordpres...nd-the-new-star-trek-series-planned-for-2015/

 

[funkystudent]

didn't expect to find kevin nash in these parts. you just never know.

Kevin Nash seems like the kind of guy who probably would have popped up as random alien #4 in a Star Trek episode at one point if it was on TV a bit longer.

 

[Htown]

Kevin Nash seems like the kind of guy who probably would have popped up as random alien #4 in a Star Trek episode at one point if it was on TV a bit longer.

Not his fault they wanted Big Show instead.

 

[ElTorro]

I just pondered the all important question of the location of a Federation starship's bridge.

Why is it on deck one just on the outer edge of the hull and at a very exposed location? Especially for combat-oriented ships like the Prometheus class or the Defiant class it makes no sense. A single hull breach on the bridge can completely disable a ship, as witnessed in Star Trek: Nemesis.

I mean, the real-world answer is that the designed just put the bridge where it usually is on real-world sea ships: at the top. But in Star Trek it just annoys my inner Star Trek spaceship fanboy.

 

[Walshicus]

The closest thing you'll get to a satisfactory answer for that is that... well, by the time you've bypassed the shields and the outer hull the ship is toast anyway. The Federation values openness and wants to appear non-warlike so they build ships with that in mind.

 

[Fuchsdh]

The closest thing you'll get to a satisfactory answer for that is that... well, by the time you've bypassed the shields and the outer hull the ship is toast anyway. The Federation values openness and wants to appear non-warlike so they build ships with that in mind.

Yep. Realistically given the firepower everyone's wielding (where anti-matter weapons are considered primitive) a hit anywhere near a vital area means your ship is done, not to mention getting ripped to shreds by the high-speed debris flying everywhere in a battlefield as dense as the ones shown in DS9.

The same argument could presumably be given to why no one bothers to paint their ships black—sensors are evidently so sophisticated that unless you have cloaking it's unlikely you'll be able to hide anyhow.

 

[DrForester]

Amazon has the Enterprise C Hallmark Ornament on sale for $24 (usually $35).

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00WSR7UV0/?tag=neogaf0e-20

 

[Jackpot]

I just pondered the all important question of the location of a Federation starship's bridge.

Why is it on deck one just on the outer edge of the hull and at a very exposed location? Especially for combat-oriented ships like the Prometheus class or the Defiant class it makes no sense. A single hull breach on the bridge can completely disable a ship, as witnessed in Star Trek: Nemesis.

Pretty much. Trek's a bit inconsistent with what a torpedo can do. In TNG full-strength torpedoes can easily destroy the ship that's firing them even with max shields.

 

[ElTorro]

The closest thing you'll get to a satisfactory answer for that is that... well, by the time you've bypassed the shields and the outer hull the ship is toast anyway. The Federation values openness and wants to appear non-warlike so they build ships with that in mind.

The issue with that explanation is that hull breaches occur all the time in Star Trek space combats.

Little things like this make we wonder why so many people are so invested in shoe-horning consistency and rationality into a lore which authors rarely had consistency or rationality in mind when they designed things like star ships.

 

[Fuchsdh]

The issue with that explanation is that hull breaches occur all the time in Star Trek space combats.

Little things like this make we wonder why so many people are so invested in shoe-horning consistency and rationality into a lore which authors rarely had consistency or rationality in mind when they designed things like star ships.

Because reality is boring, and/or Trek is ultimately beholden to its roots in 1960s sic-fi and a creator who wasn't that up-to-speed on the theories of space combat.

Hard sci-fi that goes into the minute details of "realistic" space combat is interesting, for sure, but I'd also argue to a certain point that it would be incompatible with the kinds of stories Trek was interested in telling in the first place.

 

[funkystudent]

Keiko, man. Keiko.

"What's wrong with the Chief? He seems extra cranky this morning."
"Oh, you know how it is. He just had to say goodbye to Keiko and Molly again for the rest of the season."
"Another trip to Bajor?"
"Yeah, we'll go with that."

Another thing I have been noticing during this DS9 watch is Keiko is kind of a shitty person.

My favourite is when she causes a riot on the station because she went full fedora to a Bajoran munk.


O'Brien puts up with a lot in his life. No wonder he drinks so much.

 

[Escape Goat]

Bbc America played a bunch of tng yesterday and they were all season 1 episodes. I keep looking for things that got dropped in later seasons or things that were weird. Things that didnt work out for whatever reason or really bad plots.

Betazoids believing in arranged marriages in the 24th century. Deanna is ready to resign and tbrow away her career and go have babies with some artist guy. Jeez. This doesnt ring true at all.

Dr Crusher calls Riker Number One. Shes the only other person besides Picard to call him that that I recall.

Crusher and Troi both call Riker "Bill".

Data uses contractions in several scenes most likely due to script supervisors not totally understanding the characters yet.

They reference a bathroom in one episode. I think it was Home Soil.

Wesley really is a douche.

Deannas hair is weird. As is her denim jumpsuit. I prefer her galactic cheerleader uniform.

 

[Inquisitive_Ghost]

Bbc America played a bunch of tng yesterday and they were all season 1 episodes. I keep looking for things that got dropped in later seasons or things that were weird. Things that didnt work out for whatever reason or really bad plots.

Data uses contractions in several scenes most likely due to script supervisors not totally understanding the characters yet.
.

He uses a contraction right in the episode where he explains he can't use them.

Proofread your scripts, people!

 

[Henchmen21]

He uses a contraction right in the episode where he explains he can't use them.

Proofread your scripts, people!

Not necessarily even the proofreaders. Brent could have just accidentally used it over the years since, you know, he's human and can't always remember those things. Honestly the whole "can't use contractions" thing was reaching. I know they wanted to give him a quirk but really.

 

[Inquisitive_Ghost]

Not necessarily even the proofreaders. Brent could have just accidentally used it over the years since, you know, he's human and can't always remember those things. Honestly the whole "can't use contractions" thing was reaching. I know they wanted to give him a quirk but really.

Oh sure, but if they didn't catch it, the director should have.

But I agree that that quirk makes no sense. Data's this ridiculously advanced android with excellent language control and understanding, and he can't use what amounts to a handful of specific synonyms? Please. Though I do like the formal way he talks.

 

[Henchmen21]

Oh sure, but if they didn't catch it, the director should have.

But I agree that that quirk makes no sense. Data's this ridiculously advanced android with excellent language control and understanding, and he can't use what amounts to a handful of specific synonyms? Please. Though I do like the formal way he talks.

Not necessarily. Tons of movies/tv shows have goofs like that that slip through all the time. I mean look at the infamous Teen Wolf (80s movie not that mtv twilightish crap) end credits flash from one of the extras. Sometimes these things just slip through and no one notices.

It makes no sense because from the very pilot and on we're told he got the name Data because he's essentially a walking talking dictionary/encyclopedia. Even if he had that glitch in his program, surely over the years he would create a fix for it.

 

[Inquisitive_Ghost]

Not necessarily. Tons of movies/tv shows have goofs like that that slip through all the time. I mean look at the infamous Teen Wolf (80s movie not that mtv twilightish crap) end credits flash from one of the extras. Sometimes these things just slip through and no one notices.

I know, that's just the perfectionist in me showing.

 

[Fuchsdh]

It still amazes me it took six seasons to get Troi into a Starfleet uniform (and I really think lack of cleavage all across the screen aside, she really looks best with it.)

 

[DrForester]

It still amazes me it took six seasons to get Troi into a Starfleet uniform (and I really think lack of cleavage all across the screen aside, she really looks best with it.)

Too bad they never did the same with Seven. There was one episode where she wore a normal uniform due to time Travel shenanigans, but that's it.

 

[Fuchsdh]

Too bad they never did the same with Seven. There was one episode where she wore a normal uniform due to time Travel shenanigans, but that's it.

But unlike Troi she was never an actual Starfleet officer. I woulda' settled for removing the heels though (Catsuit? Okay. But I refuse to believe an efficiently-focused former drone decided on such impractical footwear...)

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Watching Second Chances and I just have to get this off my chest. I hate the contemporary music in Star Trek. Like, it makes sense that Picard listens to Bach and Beethoven, but the thing with Riker playing in jazz bands with a trombone always takes me out of the story. So we're to believe that in 300-400 years, people are going to still have a thing for 90's esque jazz? It absolutely dates the show. Not the sets, not the acting, not the costumes but the random times when they've got a bunch of classical instruments and they're all sitting there looking all pretentious enjoying a Bach concert or William Riker leading a jazz band with a trombone.

 

[Fuchsdh]

Watching Second Chances and I just have to get this off my chest. I hate the contemporary music in Star Trek. Like, it makes sense that Picard listens to Bach and Beethoven, but the thing with Riker playing in jazz bands with a trombone always takes me out of the story. So we're to believe that in 300-400 years, people are going to still have a thing for 90's esque jazz? It absolutely dates the show. Not the sets, not the acting, not the costumes but the random times when they've got a bunch of classical instruments and they're all sitting there looking all pretentious enjoying a Bach concert or William Riker leading a jazz band with a trombone.

I guess the question is, what's the alternative? Because it's kind of hard to imagine from our perspective what will be popular in 200 years, but our classical music lasting another 200 seems more probable than emo being everyone's favorite classical genre.

I do remember there were a interesting Voyager book where someone (I think it was Harry Kim's original girl back home?) becomes this virtuoso on this alien instrument that everyone's surprised humans can use let alone master, and it struck me how difficult it is to make an alien culture that doesn't seem outlandish or offends modern sensibilities is.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

I guess the question is, what's the alternative? Because it's kind of hard to imagine from our perspective what will be popular in 200 years, but our classical music lasting another 200 seems more probable than emo being everyone's favorite classical genre.

I do remember there were a interesting Voyager book where someone (I think it was Harry Kim's original girl back home?) becomes this virtuoso on this alien instrument that everyone's surprised humans can use let alone master, and it struck me how difficult it is to make an alien culture that doesn't seem outlandish or offends modern sensibilities is.

You're telling me that they can create all of these races and such a rich universe but can't come up with create music? It doesn't have to be a realistic imagining. Having classical instruments every now and then would be fine, except it's only EVER classical instruments.

 

[SpoonyBard]

You're telling me that they can create all of these races and such a rich universe but can't come up with create music? It doesn't have to be a realistic imagining. Having classical instruments every now and then would be fine, except it's only EVER classical instruments.

TOS had alien instruments. But I guess you can only put so much resources in an episode and using them elsewhere is more cost effective. And classical inatruments are timeless, so they never feel out of place.

 

[Calabi]

Watching Second Chances and I just have to get this off my chest. I hate the contemporary music in Star Trek. Like, it makes sense that Picard listens to Bach and Beethoven, but the thing with Riker playing in jazz bands with a trombone always takes me out of the story. So we're to believe that in 300-400 years, people are going to still have a thing for 90's esque jazz? It absolutely dates the show. Not the sets, not the acting, not the costumes but the random times when they've got a bunch of classical instruments and they're all sitting there looking all pretentious enjoying a Bach concert or William Riker leading a jazz band with a trombone.

I think that's one of the thing's that doesnt date the show. Coming up with wacky future music means you end up with something like Buck Rogers really cheesy and completely of its time.

People are always going to play instruments and they probably wont change that much. I mean people have designed these laser instruments and other weird machines and none of them have taken off.

 

[Fuchsdh]

I think that's one of the thing's that doesnt date the show. Coming up with wacky future music means you end up with something like Buck Rogers really cheesy and completely of its time.

People are always going to play instruments and they probably wont change that much. I mean people have designed these laser instruments and other weird machines and none of them have taken off.

"In the 23rd century, everyone will be playing the theremin! Mark my words!!!"