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The General Star Trek Thread of Earl Grey Tea, Baseball, and KHHHAAAANNNN

Name your favorite scene from each Star Trek movie (I'm bored and this is fun to see what others think):

TMP - Voyager reveal
Wrath of Khan - Spock dying (followed by Mutara Nebula)
Search for Spock - Enterprise blowing up (followed by stealing the Enterprise)
Voyage Home - Getting Chekhov out of the hospital
TFF - "I need my pain!"
Undiscovered Country - Kirk vs Chang
Generations - Enterprise vs Bird of Prey
First Contact - Engaging the borg
Insurrection - When the Enterprise is on screen not doing something stupid
Nemesis - Enterprise ramming the Scimitar
Star Trek 09 - Enterprise vs Narada (at the end)
Into Darkness - Enterprise vs Vengeance
 
Picked up the TOS set. This is terribly designed. I have about five or six discs falling out. Snapping the discs in place feels like you're damaging them. The clamshell case and actual disc holder are not even connected. This is a piece of shit.
 
Picked up the TOS set. This is terribly designed. I have about five or six discs falling out. Snapping the discs in place feels like you're damaging them. The clamshell case and actual disc holder are not even connected. This is a piece of shit.

You think that's bad, the GB BR set that came out 2 years ago is awful designed. They have the GB1 disc almost on top of the GB2 disc and to get out the GB2 disc you have to take out the GB1 disc first.
 
Bumping as well to notify that Sulu is gay in Star Trek Beyond.

What's funny is that this approach could roughly align with the Prime universe too. Yes, Demora's mother came up a few times, but the novels were never exactly a concrete expanded universe. She could just as easily have had two fathers.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
Bumping as well to notify that Sulu is gay in Star Trek Beyond.

What's funny is that this approach could roughly align with the Prime universe too. Yes, Demora's mother came up a few times, but the novels were never exactly a concrete expanded universe. She could just as easily have had two fathers.

Huh, that's kind of weird, but you're right, just watched Generations and I don't think they mention a mom at all, just that Sulu had time for a family.

Hopefully this means there's some time for actual characterization and dialogue in Beyond, and not just him saying "oh BTW my partner and I are having a kid" :p
 

Sesuadra

Unconfirmed Member
My fiancée watched everything of TNG and after watching the last episode she said "Wow. That's so different to the new movies and so much better"
She thinks Picard is an incredible captain and she likes the Q and Ferengi episodes the most.
I asked her why, and she prefers that there is not as much action, more talking and more "humanity" if I understood her correctly. She still likes the new movies, as a disclaimer >>, before someone jumps me...

We'll start DS9 tomorrow ^-^
 
I'm just starting DS9 on netflix( haven't watched the series in ages). Is it me, or does the guy( Siddig) playing Bashir kind of suck acting-wise?
 
I'm just starting DS9 on netflix( haven't watched the series in ages). Is it me, or does the guy( Siddig) playing Bashir kind of suck acting-wise?

Dude is the weakest part of the main cast for the early seasons but he finds his groove after a while.

But that is Bashir in general. The early Bashir stuff is pretty bad. Writers did a amazing job making him likeable as the show went on
 
Dude is the weakest part of the main cast for the early seasons but he finds his groove after a while.

But that is Bashir in general. The early Bashir stuff is pretty bad. Writers did a amazing job making him likeable as the show went on

Yup, just started season 6 of DS9 (first run) and Bashir is soooooo much better, I think around mid season 4 is when he gets more likeable but at first I couldn't stand him.
 

Man God

Non-Canon Member
Bashir in the early days is underrated. You're supposed to despise him whenever his pompous ass comes on the screen.
 
Bashir in the early days is underrated. You're supposed to despise him whenever his pompous ass comes on the screen.

I'm not even referring to his characterization, I mean that some of the acting, like line delivery, is pretty bad so far. Im up to episode 12.... Avery overplays/acts a bit too but I like his presence. The Odo/ Quark relationship is definitely the highlight....
 

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
I feel like the pannel should have been much bigger for the SDCC 50th anniversary panel...

CoFEZH3UIAA2Rtv.jpg:large
 

BorkBork

The Legend of BorkBork: BorkBorkity Borking
I'm not even referring to his characterization, I mean that some of the acting, like line delivery, is pretty bad so far. Im up to episode 12.... Avery overplays/acts a bit too but I like his presence. The Odo/ Quark relationship is definitely the highlight....

He gets better after he calms down. He's fantastic by the time Season 2's The Wire rolls around (of course, having Andrew Robinson to play off of is always nice). Always thought Farrell was the weak link to the strongest cast in Trek.
 
They just got grey uniforms in my ds9 rewatch.

That's a sign shit is going to get real, real soon.



Oh.
And I guess this is shape-shifter Bashir now
. Wonder if there are any hints to that in the episodes leading to it. That was a fun twist.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
They just got grey uniforms in my ds9 rewatch.

That's a sign shit is going to get real, real soon.



Oh.
And I guess this is shape-shifter Bashir now
. Wonder if there are any hints to that in the episodes leading to it. That was a fun twist.

The Bashir switch just doesn't make much sense, unless you buy that Bashir's duplicate somehow became familiar enough with medicine he could literally perform brain surgery... the timeline also doesn't really work either.

I feel like the pannel should have been much bigger for the SDCC 50th anniversary panel...

CoFEZH3UIAA2Rtv.jpg:large

Big panels get incredibly unwieldily, and besides everyone's got schedules to coordinate.
 
Its bad when Voyager writers cant even get 7 of 9s favorite color right. In one episode she says she likes the green board game pieces but in another episode she says her favorite color was red. Nobody gave a crap about these characters.
 

firehawk12

Subete no aware
Its bad when Voyager writers cant even get 7 of 9s favorite color right. In one episode she says she likes the green board game pieces but in another episode she says her favorite color was red. Nobody gave a crap about these characters.
When I found out that the only reason Chakotay was shipped with Seven was because Beltran was trying to make unreasonable demands in order to be fired, I just assumed no one gave a shit about the show at that point. lol
 
When I found out that the only reason Chakotay was shipped with Seven was because Beltran was trying to make unreasonable demands in order to be fired, I just assumed no one gave a shit about the show at that point. lol

I think he knew the writers sucked. All he did was shout status updates during the requisite space battle.
 

Jackpot

Banned
Watching "Chaos on the Bridge" and found out Q was created solely by Roddenberry and inserted into the Farpoint story after the fact.

I've always had a real problem with the concept of Q. His character gets fleshed out over time, but at heart he is a magical being (literally). He's Rumpelstiltskin in a sci-fi series. He snaps his fingers and grants wishes. I know "any tech so advanced is indistinguishable from magic", but it's really, really jarring tonally to have him in the show.
 

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
When I found out that the only reason Chakotay was shipped with Seven was because Beltran was trying to make unreasonable demands in order to be fired, I just assumed no one gave a shit about the show at that point. lol

What "unreasonable" demands was he making? Given how poorly his character was written, I'd be likely to believe all his demands were reasonable. He's the first officer on Star Trek and was treated as nothing more than Janeway's yes-man for seven seasons, and almost never got a focus episode.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
What "unreasonable" demands was he making? Given how poorly his character was written, I'd be likely to believe all his demands were reasonable. He's the first officer on Star Trek and was treated as nothing more than Janeway's yes-man for seven seasons, and almost never got a focus episode.

Only good Chakotay-focused episodes I can recall are "Shattered" and "Waking Moments". Then again, I can't think of any Harry episodes that didn't have him being a drip or getting manipulated by a woman.
 

firehawk12

Subete no aware
What "unreasonable" demands was he making? Given how poorly his character was written, I'd be likely to believe all his demands were reasonable. He's the first officer on Star Trek and was treated as nothing more than Janeway's yes-man for seven seasons, and almost never got a focus episode.
I don't even know if it's apocrypha because it was probably something I read when I was still posting regularly on TrekBBS, but my understanding is that he tried to leave but was signed on for rest of the series at that point so things like shipping with Seven were his way of trying to ask for things that he thought would eventually either get him fired.
Maybe that was all just rumours at the time. lol
 
Being a transporter chief has to be the worst job ever. Theres like 3 transporter rooms and how often are you going to be transporting shit? Its amazing OBrien hadnt beamed his atoms into space.
 

MC Safety

Member
Being a transporter chief has to be the worst job ever. Theres like 3 transporter rooms and how often are you going to be transporting shit? Its amazing OBrien hadnt beamed his atoms into space.

O'Brien, Chekov in the new series, and La Forge all did that weird thing where they went from flying the ship to being engineers. Chekov and La Forge even became chief engineers.

When you think about it, that's got to be a kick in the groin for all the other engineers, that your new boss is the guy who used to fly the ship. Plus, it's ridiculous to believe you could transition from one job directly to being the head of another.
 

maharg

idspispopd
O'Brien, Chekov in the new series, and La Forge all did that weird thing where they went from flying the ship to being engineers. Chekov and La Forge even became chief engineers.

When you think about it, that's got to be a kick in the groin for all the other engineers, that your new boss is the guy who used to fly the ship. Plus, it's ridiculous to believe you could transition from one job directly to being the head of another.

Everything makes more sense when you realize that Starfleet is literally Space LARPers in a post-scarcity society. If someone's doing a job, it's generally because it's what they want to do.

It also explains why all the admirals/commodores/etc. are assholes. They're the players drawn to power.
 

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
I don't even know if it's apocrypha because it was probably something I read when I was still posting regularly on TrekBBS, but my understanding is that he tried to leave but was signed on for rest of the series at that point so things like shipping with Seven were his way of trying to ask for things that he thought would eventually either get him fired.
Maybe that was all just rumours at the time. lol

He wasn't happy with his work on the show, that's known.
 
O'Brien, Chekov in the new series, and La Forge all did that weird thing where they went from flying the ship to being engineers. Chekov and La Forge even became chief engineers.

When you think about it, that's got to be a kick in the groin for all the other engineers, that your new boss is the guy who used to fly the ship. Plus, it's ridiculous to believe you could transition from one job directly to being the head of another.

Geori was a pilot when Picard met him. Picard made a remark about the engines efficiency not being correct and Georfi stayed up all night fixing it. So he knows a lot about engines which is a big part of being an engineer.
 

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
Only good Chakotay-focused episodes I can recall are "Shattered" and "Waking Moments". Then again, I can't think of any Harry episodes that didn't have him being a drip or getting manipulated by a woman.

I'd disagree that Waking Moments was a good episode. And Shattered wasn't really a Chakotay story, even if he was the main character. You could have replaced him with any cast member and told the same story.

As for Harry, he got "Timeless", which is one of the best episodes of the series.
 

MC Safety

Member
Geori was a pilot when Picard met him. Picard made a remark about the engines efficiency not being correct and Georfi stayed up all night fixing it. So he knows a lot about engines which is a big part of being an engineer.

So?

It's like how Kirk became captain after picking a fight with Spock. Can't we just say it was a dumb thing that happened and that there's really no defense for?
 

Fuchsdh

Member
I did some thinking about Star Trek because of Beyond that I'll just link here because it's basically a tl;dr: https://medium.com/cultural-panopti...k-means-to-me-in-2016-2876aed94002#.y9jv61p67

But I never really thought about the fact that there isn't really one thing that defines "Star Trek". There are specific images, like the Enterprise, but even among the crews there isn't like an archetype that applies perfectly to every single series.

I think you make a good sidelong point, in that in these discussions usually "well it's a summer blockbuster tentpole, what do you expect?" is a cop-out answer. No one is stopping them from making smaller films that don't have the budgetary expectations, and no one is stopping them from making those films even alongside the big action-flash ones.

I think the biggest obstacle in that respect is that Star Trek is still owned by two different companies, and thus they're never going to synchronize for each others' benefit.
 

Sephzilla

Member
Figured this would be the best place to put this, but my ever slightly in flux movie rankings now takes Beyond into consideration

  1. Wrath of Khan
  2. Undiscovered Country
  3. First Contact
  4. Beyond
  5. Star Trek 2009
  6. Generations
  7. Final Frontier
  8. Motion Picture
  9. Into Darkness
  10. Voyage Home
  11. Search for Spock
  12. Insurrection
  13. Nemesis
 

Fuchsdh

Member
Figured this would be the best place to put this, but my ever slightly in flux movie rankings now takes Beyond into consideration

  1. Wrath of Khan
  2. Undiscovered Country
  3. First Contact
  4. Beyond
  5. Star Trek 2009
  6. Generations
  7. Final Frontier
  8. Motion Picture
  9. Into Darkness
  10. Voyage Home
  11. Search for Spock
  12. Insurrection
  13. Nemesis

What makes The Voyage Home and TSFS feature so low on your ranking?
 

Sephzilla

Member
What makes The Voyage Home and TSFS feature so low on your ranking?

I just don't care for Search for Spock in general. It just feels like a crappy follow up to Wrath of Khan. I like roughly the first third of the movie but all of the Genesis planet stuff is awful and Christopher Lloyd is terribly miscast.

I know I'm in the minority with hating Voyage Home but I just feel like it contributes nothing to the Trek universe at all and requires some really stupid leaps in logic to make everything work. A giant space probe thing manages to get all the way into the heart of Federation space and nobody has a clue it's coming? I mean yeah it EMPs everything that gets near it but nobody outside of its effective range wouldn't have noticed a path of ships and space stations going dark on a direct line straight to Earth? And then the probe apparently needs to communicate with Earth based whales (for some reason) in order to stop destroying the planet despite it seemingly never coming to Earth before? Oh, and the Federation apparently knows how to time travel and can do it even at will in a barely manned Klingon ship? Voyage Home is basically a giant pointless side story that serves no purpose to the Trek universe outside of basically retconning Kirk's promotion to make him Captain again.

If the JJ Abrams movies tried to make a movie that has the same leaps in logic as Voyage Home, it would get slaughtered by fans.

Bones in the 20th century hospital was A+++ though
 

Fuchsdh

Member
I just don't care for Search for Spock in general. It just feels like a crappy follow up to Wrath of Khan. I like roughly the first third of the movie but all of the Genesis planet stuff is awful and Christopher Lloyd is terribly miscast.

I know I'm in the minority with hating Voyage Home but I just feel like it contributes nothing to the Trek universe at all and requires some really stupid leaps in logic to make everything work. A giant space probe thing manages to get all the way into the heart of Federation space and nobody has a clue it's coming? I mean yeah it EMPs everything that gets near it but nobody outside of its effective range wouldn't have noticed a path of ships and space stations going dark on a direct line straight to Earth? And then the probe apparently needs to communicate with Earth based whales (for some reason) in order to stop destroying the planet despite it seemingly never coming to Earth before? Oh, and the Federation apparently knows how to time travel and can do it even at will in a barely manned Klingon ship? Voyage Home is basically a giant pointless side story that serves no purpose to the Trek universe outside of basically retconning Kirk's promotion to make him Captain again.

If the JJ Abrams movies tried to make a movie that has the same leaps in logic as Voyage Home, it would get slaughtered by fans.

Bones in the 20th century hospital was A+++ though

The issue of it getting to Earth is an issue with all Star Trek, ever though. (Hey, the Borg were engaged at one of their outposts and make it all the way to Earth no problem in First Contact! Hey, there are only a maximum of three ships at Spacedock, ever!) And the time travel is a direct lift from the original series.
 

Sephzilla

Member
The issue of it getting to Earth is an issue with all Star Trek, ever though. (Hey, the Borg were engaged at one of their outposts and make it all the way to Earth no problem in First Contact! Hey, there are only a maximum of three ships at Spacedock, ever!) And the time travel is a direct lift from the original series.

I guess for me Voyage Home feels like an amalgamation of a bunch of Trek tropes that I'm willing to tolerate when they're on their own, but all together it makes for a stupid movie.

Plus hey, in First Contact the opening Captain's log entry at least gives you the implication that The Borg have been fighting The Federation for a bit now since Picard straight up says they began an all out assault on The Federation
 

Fuchsdh

Member
I guess for me Voyage Home feels like an amalgamation of a bunch of Trek tropes that I'm willing to tolerate when they're on their own, but all together it makes for a stupid movie.

Fair enough.

I honestly think part of my complaints with the JJ reboots is that they had an opportunity to avoid those tropes, and still went for broke on them while introducing their own stupid shit.
 

Sephzilla

Member
Fair enough.

I honestly think part of my complaints with the JJ reboots is that they had an opportunity to avoid those tropes, and still went for broke on them while introducing their own stupid shit.

Trek 09 and Into Darkness have some pretty stupid moments. Beyond felt solid in terms of avoiding the really bad tropes though, IMHO

Name your favorite scene from each Star Trek movie (I'm bored and this is fun to see what others think):

TMP - Enterprise reveal
Wrath of Khan - "I have been, and always shall be, your friend"
Search for Spock - Enterprise destruction
Voyage Home - Bones in the hospital
Final Frontier - "What does God need with a Starship?"
Undiscovered Country - "Target that explosion and fire"
Generations - The Enterprise-D saucer crashing into the planet
First Contact - "The line must be drawn here! This far, no further!"
Insurrection - Listening to the Frakes/Sirtis commentary track
Nemesis - Seeing the end credits and being relieved that it's over
Star Trek 2009 - The entire USS Kelvin sequence
Into Darkness - Enterprise vs Vengeance
Beyond -
WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
 
O'Brien, Chekov in the new series, and La Forge all did that weird thing where they went from flying the ship to being engineers. Chekov and La Forge even became chief engineers.

It wouldn't surprise me if you needed some core engineering classes/training as part of the qualifications to be piloting the ship.
 
It wouldn't surprise me if you needed some core engineering classes/training as part of the qualifications to be piloting the ship.

That actually flies with what we know from "Hollow Pursuits". Wesley was sitting in on briefings during the ep as part of his courses.

And I'm thinking vice versa. I'm guessing Geordi had to qualify as a pilot before he could become Chief Engineer. You remember that when he got the position in season 2, he was still credited as "Lt.". He didn't get the promotion to Lt.Cmdr. until in between season 2 and 3.
 
That actually flies with what we know from "Hollow Pursuits". Wesley was sitting in on briefings during the ep as part of his courses.

And I'm thinking vice versa. I'm guessing Geordi had to qualify as a pilot before he could become Chief Engineer. You remember that when he got the position in season 2, he was still credited as "Lt.". He didn't get the promotion to Lt.Cmdr. until in between season 2 and 3.

Yep, I mean it just makes sense to me that engineers will know how to fly the ship, and pilots would have at the bare minimum some training on how the ship works, there should be some overlap. Geordi starting off as a pilot but may have specialized in engineering seems pretty sensible to me. Maybe he took it at the academy, or maybe its something he became interested in and studied aboard the enterprise during his spare time to qualify as an engineer. All speculation of course, but it doesn't strike me as odd like the other poster was saying that one could lead to the other.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
It seems like and fits in with the wider ethos in Starfleet that there's a fair amount of generalization in what you learn about starships, in addition to branch-specific specialization.

At a certain degree it seems like starships are equivalent to an Apple product—they've made them user-friendly and everyone should know how to do the basics of its functions, even if they can't repair it when things go FUBAR.

On that note, I've always wanted them to lean into the fact that they're purposefully "inefficient" in regards to how the computers or AIs could handle the vast majority of tasks better than human crews.
 

firehawk12

Subete no aware
I think you make a good sidelong point, in that in these discussions usually "well it's a summer blockbuster tentpole, what do you expect?" is a cop-out answer. No one is stopping them from making smaller films that don't have the budgetary expectations, and no one is stopping them from making those films even alongside the big action-flash ones.

I think the biggest obstacle in that respect is that Star Trek is still owned by two different companies, and thus they're never going to synchronize for each others' benefit.
I guess I don't understand that, but are Paramount and CBS two entirely independent corporate entities now that share the Star Trek license after the split?

There's probably a way to make mid-budget films inside the Trek universe. I'm watching some random episodes of TNG at the moment and a lot of the stories could theoretically be turned into films.

I have no idea if films like Ex Machina or Her were financially successful, but it seems like folly to try to chase the "billion dollar box office" with something like Star Trek. It's never going to be Marvel or Star Wars, and unlike those two properties, this franchise actually has the capacity to tell more interesting stories than simply rehashing what we've seen time and time again.

I just don't care for Search for Spock in general. It just feels like a crappy follow up to Wrath of Khan. I like roughly the first third of the movie but all of the Genesis planet stuff is awful and Christopher Lloyd is terribly miscast.

I know I'm in the minority with hating Voyage Home but I just feel like it contributes nothing to the Trek universe at all and requires some really stupid leaps in logic to make everything work. A giant space probe thing manages to get all the way into the heart of Federation space and nobody has a clue it's coming? I mean yeah it EMPs everything that gets near it but nobody outside of its effective range wouldn't have noticed a path of ships and space stations going dark on a direct line straight to Earth? And then the probe apparently needs to communicate with Earth based whales (for some reason) in order to stop destroying the planet despite it seemingly never coming to Earth before? Oh, and the Federation apparently knows how to time travel and can do it even at will in a barely manned Klingon ship? Voyage Home is basically a giant pointless side story that serves no purpose to the Trek universe outside of basically retconning Kirk's promotion to make him Captain again.

If the JJ Abrams movies tried to make a movie that has the same leaps in logic as Voyage Home, it would get slaughtered by fans.

Bones in the 20th century hospital was A+++ though
Just to add, the implication is that the probe arrived on Earth before humanity but when whales were in the ocean. It was trying to search for whales when it returned and tried to contact that, which resulting in the world wide disruption.

But really, Nimoy wanted to do a fill that served as a coda to the violence and death of the last two films. It's a classic Star Trek adventure that relies on science in order to solve the problem and it is probably the only film that has a clear allegorical message of the same kind that you'd find in the original series. Killing the whales was, I assume, a fairly contentious point in the 80s and telling a story about the danger of wiping out an entire species because we don't understand them isn't the worst idea.

Time travel in Trek sets up so many problems, because there are so many ways to do it. I think every iteration of Trek has invented their own way to time travel, with the exception of Enterprise where there are basically soldiers fighting a time war.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
I guess I don't understand that, but are Paramount and CBS two entirely independent corporate entities now that share the Star Trek license after the split?

There's probably a way to make mid-budget films inside the Trek universe. I'm watching some random episodes of TNG at the moment and a lot of the stories could theoretically be turned into films.

I have no idea if films like Ex Machina or Her were financially successful, but it seems like folly to try to chase the "billion dollar box office" with something like Star Trek. It's never going to be Marvel or Star Wars, and unlike those two properties, this franchise actually has the capacity to tell more interesting stories than simply rehashing what we've seen time and time again.

Star Trek production history time (greatly streamlined).

Lucille Ball and Desi Arnez founded Desilu in 1950; by the time of Star Trek, Lucille Ball (who had bought out Arnez) sold to Gulf + Western; Desilu became Paramount TV after Paramount Pictures, which was purchased by G+W a year earlier. Ironically Gulf didn't want to buy Star Trek along with the rest of Desilu because it was doing poorly, but it came along as part of the package; had Roddenberry the money he would have bought the rights to Star Trek when Gulf offered him them. But he didn't have the scratch, and history continued.

Trek becomes a phenomenal success in syndication, the powers-that-be at Gulf see the success of science fiction at the box office, and their planned Phase II series becomes Star Trek: The Motion Picture. Things trundle along with the movies and new shows, with the ultimately-regrettable idea that they can use Star Trek to headline a new channel, UPN, with Star Trek Voyager and on (only took the better part of 20 years for that Phase II dream to restart...) UPN ends up changing demographics and leaving Star Trek adrift while the network turns over to America's Next Top Model and its ultimate merger into the CW, Star Trek is on the rocks, and by-now-parent company Viacom splits into two companies in 2005—CBS takes the television, and Paramount remains with the movies.

It's the failure of UPN and the Viacom split that probably does the most to kill Trek, rather than Enterprises' middling-to-weak ratings by its end. A lot of the Trek-friendly executives are shuffled around or lost, Berman and the old Trek crew are out, and Paramount convinces the now-separate CBS to give them time to try a new feature film before CBS takes another stab at Star Trek on the small screen. Enter the JJ-verse.

Now, the two companies apparently are sort of keeping their distance. The new Trek show runners even said that they have to give a buffer around Paramount's film entries so that they don't compete or whatever.

It's really stupid, as is the whole spinoff in the first place, but I don't think either company could essentially buy the rights off the other one; there's too much potential money at stake.
 
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