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The General Star Trek Thread of Earl Grey Tea, Baseball, and KHHHAAAANNNN
- Thread starter The Librarian
- Start date
...Until Jadzia got married, and died, and Ezri comes along and the writers decided "hey remember when all those male characters were being jackasses and harassing Jadzia, let's replay that!"
Stallion Dan
Member
Got done with seventh Voyager season the other day.
I still think it the best Trek, after rewatching everything in the last year, I'd rate them Voyager > Enterprise > TOS > TNG > DS9.
Voyager is more enjoyable than I remember, or Janeway less insufferable.
Enterprise has bumps and series 3 is real awful at times.
TNG hasn't aged well imo and has loads of bad.
TOS is a lot better since the remaster.
DS9 gets worse every time I watch it. Quark is the best character.
I still think it the best Trek, after rewatching everything in the last year, I'd rate them Voyager > Enterprise > TOS > TNG > DS9.
Voyager is more enjoyable than I remember, or Janeway less insufferable.
Enterprise has bumps and series 3 is real awful at times.
TNG hasn't aged well imo and has loads of bad.
TOS is a lot better since the remaster.
DS9 gets worse every time I watch it. Quark is the best character.
When the fuck did I get stuck in the mirror universe?!
Himynameischris
Member
So I watched Balance of Terror yesterday, damn what a good episode. Reminded me of the movie U-571, they used the same tactics lol
LurkerPrime
Member
C'mon, y'all want to talk bad Trek? I saw Star Trek Beyond today and I don't think I can summarise the plot at all...
...but I will try:
Now please stop entertaining the notion that TNG is anything less than the best.
...but I will try:
There's space magic, space elves, & space orcs, a split in the party alongside a heroic sacrifice, and an invasion of a key city by an unthinking, manufactured. But the plot revolves around and culminates with the loss of the One Trinket, ending its threat in the hands of the one most cursed by it--while also managing to seal its ancient power.
Yeah, Star Trek Beyond is pretty much Return of the King.
Yeah, Star Trek Beyond is pretty much Return of the King.
Now please stop entertaining the notion that TNG is anything less than the best.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
What in the world...
I rewatched TNG/DS9/VOY and VOY is by far the worst of the three. lol
I think Beyond benefited from low expectations. Although I guess the box office would indicate that Into Darkness also killed the franchise.
Do you have a beard?
ChazAshley
CharAznable's second cousin
Watched it last night with the wife - that was quite the strangest movie I've seen in quite some time. Felt like it was trying to be a normal episode of Star Trek, but wait we gotta add some nice action scenes to make sure non-fans like it too!
The best summary I can give is that - the entire time the movie felt like it was gasping for air. No decent amount of time to appreciate the scene or the potential tension (if any) going on in the plot. Plus
Finding the Franklin
Btw - who else is getting tired of the fact that the Enterprise is as strong as a paper cup in these movies? The lack of shields really bother me.
LurkerPrime
Member
I agree with all of this. It's very conflicted and lost.
And it's even weirder because, like the old TOS movies, it's assuming a lot of audience knowledge re: the franchise and characters, only without the series to back it up. But at the same time it doesn't capitalise on any of the old lore by constantly introducing new, unseen things or completely reimagining established canon. It just can't decide what it wants to be, a fantastical action movie or another entry in the Star Trek franchise.
Another thing, the ship-based action sequences really made me lament the death of the classic phaser vs. shields dynamic of the classic Trek stuff. The old style looks a lot better (and more iconic) than the harried action that could be from any other sci-fi franchise. Like, without the Enterprise and classic Federation uniforms (which by the way, makes the female crew's skirts so out of place it's not even funny) it would be completely unrecognisable.
Ironically to all this Golden-Age nonsense, Balance of Terror could have a similar Tolkien-esque takedown if you wanted to boil it down into nothing.
Like, the 'ring' in Balance of Terror even makes you invisible. The Romulans are pretty much (smart) Orcs to the Vulcan's elves. The cloaking device is destroyed in the end by the people who most want its power, and they die along with it. You're just pointing out that it follows something sort of like the standard epic cycle. Which is not at all unusual for Trek (or really any genre story).
This kind of "this is stupid because it's like that" thing is so dumb. And seriously? Have any of you *watched* TOS? It *was an action show*. Dressing up a premise in an action-packed climax is part of the essence of old-school Trek.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
lmao at this Voyager episode that's basically a blatant ripoff of Alien. They were really hurting for episode ideas, it seems.
SolidSnakeUS
Member
Holy shit, I'm watching the Pathfinder episode of Voyager and I just now noticed that Reg's boss is Sully from Uncharted. I was like "holy shit" when I even noticed he was in an episode of Better Off Ted.
ChazAshley
CharAznable's second cousin
Honestly surprised that the movie still has a pretty high score on RT (85%) I guess people enjoyed it more as an action flick than a Star Trek entry.
Oh and now that I think about it more - the whole "conflict" that Kirk and Spock
had about whether or not to leave their respective positions felt so cheap. I mean if you want to show that they are struggling about whether to stay or take on new positions at least put them in more scenes together and have them enduring conflict together, not this last minute "oh yeah we make a good team" nonsense.
Not bashing on the Reboot series, I honestly enjoyed the first two for what they were. It's just that as a fan of the series, the nerd side of me that demands continuity in the lore as well as the technology makes it difficult to continue to enjoy them. I know the tv series are guilty of this as well sometimes - but even within the first two movies, Its "that was a fun movie, but the more I think about it... that shouldn't have happened."
Especially when they allow some of the worst last minute minute resolutions and technobabble to escape the problem. For example:
* Finding the Franklin - still has power - still has weapons?
*Wee man sneezing on the lock to free themselves. I don't remember the other movies as well, did he ever something like this?
* Escape pods in the Bridge. Wtf. Part of the tension is having escape pods elsewhere!
* Playing a Song over a RF to disrupt the Bee ships - Okay but weren't there soldiers flying in each ship that showed pretty much sentience when they were fighting hte crew elsewhere?
* Finding the motorbike just because. Just because if Star Trek Nemesis had a pointless buggy scene, then so can we!
*Wee man sneezing on the lock to free themselves. I don't remember the other movies as well, did he ever something like this?
* Escape pods in the Bridge. Wtf. Part of the tension is having escape pods elsewhere!
* Playing a Song over a RF to disrupt the Bee ships - Okay but weren't there soldiers flying in each ship that showed pretty much sentience when they were fighting hte crew elsewhere?
* Finding the motorbike just because. Just because if Star Trek Nemesis had a pointless buggy scene, then so can we!
I guess I just want the new TV series asap. Here's hoping it'll be somewhat good.
Stallion Dan
Member
What episode exactly?
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
"Macrocosm". It becomes less of a ripoff in the latter half, but the first half is Janeway and Neelix walking around the ship and crawling through ducts while giant monsters that exude metal-eroding goo try and kill them.
Stallion Dan
Member
I thought might be that, but it only really the Janeway in tank top with gun imagery that made me think it.
LurkerPrime
Member
Beyond's story beats just slay me. Really wonder how much was left on the cutting room floor. I half-wrote up a story summary, but there were so many plot holes that I was getting confused and dropped it.
Seriously, the
parts are like Wild Wild West giant spider-tier goofs.
I admit, I mostly wanted to see how far I could stretch the comparison. Wasn't considering the wider ramifications of such a comparison.
And yeah, TOS was an action/adventure show from an era with rather flimsy everything. But it did try to have some greater meaning behind its episodes, hamfisted though it could be. It created something iconic almost in spite of itself and spawned a franchise that, okay, not so much prospers, rather, endures to this day.
I suppose the core of my problem with NuTrek is that I'd like it to aim a bit higher than "60's action" at this point, when the franchise has done so much more. (Though movies are a bad format for this anyways, so eh. I have a grim hope for the new series...)
Seriously, the
motorbike and song
I admit, I mostly wanted to see how far I could stretch the comparison. Wasn't considering the wider ramifications of such a comparison.
And yeah, TOS was an action/adventure show from an era with rather flimsy everything. But it did try to have some greater meaning behind its episodes, hamfisted though it could be. It created something iconic almost in spite of itself and spawned a franchise that, okay, not so much prospers, rather, endures to this day.
I suppose the core of my problem with NuTrek is that I'd like it to aim a bit higher than "60's action" at this point, when the franchise has done so much more. (Though movies are a bad format for this anyways, so eh. I have a grim hope for the new series...)
JoshuaJSlone
Member
Rewatching DS9, recently saw the episode Cardassians and noted a comment that during the Occupation 10 million Bajorans were killed. I don't think this is the effect they were going for, but I was thinking "That's all!?" For a 50 year occupation, seemed pretty low. World War I had significantly more deaths than that on each side, and lasted under 5 years. Not that forced planetwide servitude is a very nice alternative--that's what I'd stick with in talking about the horrors.
Well, the whole idea was that they weren't trying to slaughter everyone, they were just occupying it. Over fifty years killing people at a rate of 2 million a year is pretty horrific for a "non-war", and they mention that some Cardassians did want them to basically try and wipe out the Bajorans before they pulled out. But hey make up for that lowball number by killing eight hundred million Cardassians in the finale in basically a matter of an hour or so.
In the episode Duet, one Cardassian said that they wanted the Bajorans to think that Cardassians were killing them, because they wanted the Bajorans to be submissive through fear.
It's not that Cardassians were above killing Bajorans for no reason (and some likely did), but if a Bajoran died due to harsh conditions, it was "more efficient" to step in and lie and claim they were murdered by a Cardassian. (Garak: "The truth is usually just an excuse for lack of imagination.")
Which isn't to get all Holocaust-denier on this piece of fiction, but it's an interesting twist.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
Off by a factor of 10, 200K per year average. Which is still of course Not Good, but kind of a bad job at genocide.
Fair point.Cheerilee said:
VenomousCoffee
Member
Just FYI, I am watching Masters of the Universe on TV right now and Tom Paris is in it and he is acting the shit out of this scene.
Stallion Dan
Member
One of my 'I know it's bad but love it anyway' movies.
I'm indifferent to Beyond. Better than 09 and STID, but that's not saying much. Plot holes and conveniences are abound, and it's mostly just a lightweight romp that feels like it belongs in the franchise.
First 30 minutes (
through the Enterprise's latest jobbing
as the swarm was destroyed
All the "unity is our strength" and "you're learning what it means to be you" faux-serious lines were kind of a joke and came up hollow, though. Loved the cameo portrait.
Henchmen21
Banned
Rewatching "MacGyver" and lo and behold, there's Nana Visitor with blond hair. Season 1 ep. 8 "Hellfire"
Listening to a guy who'd never seen an old Star Trek movie watching The Wrath of Khan for the first time, and it's interesting to me what stuff people gloss over or immediately fill in their own explanations for, versus the stuff that people take as plot holes and the like. The five-digit prefix code for Reliant gets brought up, but I guess I'd always just explained it as the six-digit code being part of a much more complicated encrypted handshake between the vessels, and just broadcasting "16309" isn't going to do jack. Kirk and Spock are clearly doing a lot more than just asking the computer for a bit of information anyhow, so presumably there's some additional steps we just never get explained for us.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
I've been waiting for a deep sale on the TNG Blu-rays, only to discover that the UK release is identical, region free, and less than half the price. Currently 42.99 GBP ($53.73 USD) -- not sure if that includes shipping and/or VAT but the US series is $120. Packaging is different but comparable.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
I have to say, I kind of dig this episode where Chakotay goes to Space Platoon and goes on a march with a bunch of people who talk like A Clockwork Orange characters.
funkystudent
Member
Still chugging through DS9.
Ezri is so awkward so far. I wonder if the actress gets into the groove a bit later because so far every scene with her is cringy
Also I had that Do, Re, Mi tune the genetically engineered weirdos sang stuck in my head on and off for a decade.
Do, Re, Mi
Do, Re, Mi
Fa Re Mae!
Ezri is so awkward so far. I wonder if the actress gets into the groove a bit later because so far every scene with her is cringy
Also I had that Do, Re, Mi tune the genetically engineered weirdos sang stuck in my head on and off for a decade.
Do, Re, Mi
Do, Re, Mi
Fa Re Mae!
I'm still catching up on DS9. I didn't much care for Jadzia, but Ezri is much worse. That third, Ezri-centric episode of S7 was probably the worst I've seen in the series (but I'm only watching 3-3.5 star or higher episodes as rated by Jammer, so I skipped "Profit and Lace" et al.).
Just a dozen more episodes and I can put the series to rest. I didn't watch DS9 at all during its original run, unlike TNG/VOY/ENT, and while there are parts that still hold up ("Duet", "The Visitor", "Rocks and Shoals", "Far Beyond the Stars"), I do think the series loses a lot of its impact being viewed after BSG and modern TV. The sets, acting, directing, and scripts all feel so... FAAAAAKE.
Himynameischris
Member
Having finally watched Space Seed (and having seen WoK awhile ago) I can see why people were so upset with STID, there was a lot of story there that they could have explored if they were going to retread but I still enjoyed STID.
Also I'm noticing a ton of futurama episodes based on TOS and a lot small references lol The one where Spock needs to return to Vulcan to mate had me with a giant grin on my face the whole time even the music was inspired (heavily) by the fight scene between Kirk and Spock.
Also I'm noticing a ton of futurama episodes based on TOS and a lot small references lol The one where Spock needs to return to Vulcan to mate had me with a giant grin on my face the whole time even the music was inspired (heavily) by the fight scene between Kirk and Spock.
Stallion Dan
Member
The Cable Guy has the best parady of that scene ever.
funkystudent
Member
BSG sure was a crazy leap for the qualityIty of science fiction tv production value. The CG in BGS is pretty dated now but I remember thing it made trek look like crap and was like movie CG back then.
Watching ds9 now for the first time in years and it does stand out how many little short cuts and cheap effects they use. How many filler episodes they pull out etc..
Still with 23+ 45 minute episodes a year that will happen. If they where making the show today I bet they would go with 12 eps a year like a lot of them do now.
Even with that.... I still think it's the best trek imo. I need that character development.
Speaking of, siege of ar558 is some ds9 ass ds9.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
I would argue "Scorpion" is every bit as good as great Trek episodes from other series, so why the hell wasn't more of Voyager like that? It's very weird to commission a Star Trek with a certain, very interesting premise, then basically force it to just be TNG with worse characters (though, frankly, Janeway's got more cajones than any captain not named Kirk).
firehawk12
Subete no aware
The problem is that Voyager has good episodes in a vacuum, but in context it sort of brings down the whole show. Scorpion is the first episode to show that Janeway can be unhinged, with her "deal with the devil" (or, by allowing a scorpion to ride on their back, to use the episode's metaphor).
You could easily see another show where Voyager is the evil ship instead of the Equinox, based on some of the decisions that they made.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
I'm usually on Janeway's side, but I'm about 20 minutes into the episode "Drone" and, uh, not destroying a Borg drone 5 centuries more advanced than the already nigh-unstoppable ones you have already dealt with before it has a chance to activate itself and harm you is preeeeeetty stupid, sis.
The Hamburglar
Banned
Just finishing series 6 (I've watched ds9 before) and the show really is miles better than tng just the fact that there is a central story line and character development.
Tng is just random shit with some continuity and so many filler expisodes.
Children of time is such a great episode and better than anything on tng.
Tng is just random shit with some continuity and so many filler expisodes.
Children of time is such a great episode and better than anything on tng.
TheSecondSpitter
Member
Rewatched "Drumhead" last night -- it was sooooo on the money as a contemporary social critique that it almost started to feel corny. Amazing.
Octavianus
Banned
JoshuaJSlone
Member
I remember watching Children of Time and both enjoying it, but also being disappointed that I now realized one of my favorite Enterprise episodes (E²) was a ripoff.
Except in our reality there is no Picard speech and the person in charge didn't walk out and go I don't have time for this bullshit.
Fox Mulder
Member
Complete TNG bluray set is under $100 on Amazon. What a time we live in.
The Hamburglar
Banned
honestly don't see the point. It is still in 4:3 and the apparently high def versions are on netflix.