A new animated Star Trek series aimed at adults could be perfect.
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The General Star Trek Thread of Earl Grey Tea, Baseball, and KHHHAAAANNNN
- Thread starter The Librarian
- Start date
A new animated Star Trek series aimed at adults could be perfect.
finished with my TNG rewatch. I think I'd never seen 'all good things' originally, which surprised me. Kind of sad to see it end, but nicely done.
One thing I noticed was that there were a ton of alternate reality/timey wimey episodes - the one where Riker is doing the play about a mental patient, Worf is in an odd temporal loop, the entire crew has a groundhog day, 'All good things' to a large extent, and several others. I do enjoy them, but was surprised how many times they roll it out.
So what next? I tried watching Enterprise when it started showing over here, but never really got into it, and have never watched any DS9. I also think I've probably only watched TOS piecemeal.
One thing I noticed was that there were a ton of alternate reality/timey wimey episodes - the one where Riker is doing the play about a mental patient, Worf is in an odd temporal loop, the entire crew has a groundhog day, 'All good things' to a large extent, and several others. I do enjoy them, but was surprised how many times they roll it out.
So what next? I tried watching Enterprise when it started showing over here, but never really got into it, and have never watched any DS9. I also think I've probably only watched TOS piecemeal.
Ah makes sense. I'm not American so I wasn't sure how your channels work. That paint s a somewhat bleak picture of the future of the franchise, kind of sad. At least SyFy doesn't get a chance to ruin it.
Davey Cakes
Member
I've never watched enterprise or TOS really. But I do know that TOS is shorter than other Trek series, so if you don't want to bother with the "seven season" thing, go for that.
But my wholehearted recommendation goes to DS9, which I did watch all the way through and loved to death. It's Trek, but it's not really like TNG (even though it does have episodes that you can tell are trying to be like TNG). It feels different enough that you could probably jump into it with no problem. Deals more with war, space politics, and religious themes. After a point it feels more serialized than TNG, too. I'm going to be honest and say that I prefer the DS9 characters (and character development) to TNG's. Not a single character is of the caliber of Picard, but the goodness is spread out better so more characters are compelling.
This is all in my opinion, of course.
I'm one of the guys on this board that actually really liked Enterprise, and I'm telling you right now you go watch DS9.
SniperHunter
Banned
One bad thing about Enterprise was how they treated the black pilot guy. In season 3, I swear he had no lines at all...I kinda felt bad for him. He would show up to act but just sit there and not say a word...seemed bizarre. He probably isn't a good actor or maybe he had a fight with the producers...but it seemed kind of strange to even have him on the set at that point.
Anyone else agree?
Anyone else agree?
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Yeah, when I was a big fan, I posted at a place called TrekBBS. One thing I would do each week was write down every single Mayweather line and post them as an episode review (with the clever title, Mayweather's logs).
He was basically the "countdown" guy or the "aye sir" guy. I think in one episode, he had maybe one line. lol
As for how they used him, he was basically the Harry Kim of the series. They just didn't know how to use him and ended up just having him be a glorified extra.
Incidentally, the same thing happened on Stargate: Atlantis with their own young black actor around the same time.
Enterprise tried to recreate, with little success, the triumvirate of Kirk, Spock, and McCoy in the original series. In doing so, it ended up neglecting most of its other characters.
The original series did a far better job with its minor characters, and did so with 20 or so less episodes than Enterprise.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
I haven't watched much of Enterprise, but the way they handle the Xindi seems like a far less interesting version of the Dominion. 5 species evolving on the same planet, and being called "the primates" and "the insectoids" is way less interesting than the hierarchy of the Founders and Jem'Hadar (and so on) within the Dominion, established in DS9.
I'm sure I'm being overly reductionist about the Xindi, since I've watched only a few episodes, but I find the show so utterly boring half the time (and horribly derivative and un-Star Trek the other half) that I honestly can't be bothered to watch more to substantiate my claim.
Anywho, last night I was watching the DS9 episode "The Way of the Warrior", where Worf first appears on the show, and while I love the episode, it rubbed me the wrong way that they reference Star Trek Generations a few times in the episode (speaking specifically of the Enterprise's destruction). I want to believe Rick Berman and the rest of the team realized the movie was such an abject failure that they would all pretend it never happened. Maybe in future recuts of the episode, they'll dub over Worf's line with "I miss the Enterprise, which is totally fine, and nothing happened. No one shot a rocket at a sun, and Picard didn't travel into the Nexus to get fat old Kirk's help to punch an old man in the face."
I'm sure I'm being overly reductionist about the Xindi, since I've watched only a few episodes, but I find the show so utterly boring half the time (and horribly derivative and un-Star Trek the other half) that I honestly can't be bothered to watch more to substantiate my claim.
Anywho, last night I was watching the DS9 episode "The Way of the Warrior", where Worf first appears on the show, and while I love the episode, it rubbed me the wrong way that they reference Star Trek Generations a few times in the episode (speaking specifically of the Enterprise's destruction). I want to believe Rick Berman and the rest of the team realized the movie was such an abject failure that they would all pretend it never happened. Maybe in future recuts of the episode, they'll dub over Worf's line with "I miss the Enterprise, which is totally fine, and nothing happened. No one shot a rocket at a sun, and Picard didn't travel into the Nexus to get fat old Kirk's help to punch an old man in the face."
firehawk12
Subete no aware
To be fair, Uhura is only known for 'the kiss' and Sulu for being shirtless. lol
But I'm willing to give TOS a pass for that, since it was the 60s. Enterprise had no excuse whatsoever.
The TCW was Berman and Braga's attempt to create a big meta plot for the show akin to the Dominion War and it basically fell flat on its face. They had no idea what they were doing, and unlike Ron Moore or Lindelof and Cuse, they sucked at hiding it.
SniperHunter
Banned
yea that's pretty much what I thought while watching, he had one or two lines in most episodes. I didn't lol though, I felt so bad for him....
good point.
At least Harry Kim had a few decent episodes in Voyager. He also went on away missions and developed a friendship with Tom Paris.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Well, maybe if Enterprise had 3 more seasons, Mayweather would have had a few extra lines probably!
But yeah, between Kim and Chakotay, I suppose Voyager wasn't *that* bad.
But yeah, between Kim and Chakotay, I suppose Voyager wasn't *that* bad.
SniperHunter
Banned
hahah yea good point, they could have developed the character if they had the time. I thought he was a better actor than Kes & Neelix from Voyager.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Man, Kes got killed off pretty quick though. She got Tasha Yar'ed. lol
SniperHunter
Banned
She was terrible, just terrible acting...especially in season 3 before 7 of 9 showed up. I was reading her IMDB a while back and now she is training to become a nutritionist. That's all that needs to be said about her acting skills.
So much Enterprise hate all up in here
.I thought as the time went on more of the minor characters got their due.
Archer, T'pol, and Trip all got their due.
Dr. Flox, and Malcom, got a decent amount of time for their roles.
Mayweather and Hoshi didn't exactly get their due though, however I do like Hoshi's transporter incident episode.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
My biggest problem with how they handled the Xindi, in the episodes I've seen, was that Archer seems to act like a post-911 space captain, rather than a Starfleet captain.
I was just watching the episode where they find the colony producing kemocite, and Archer spends a portion of the episode threatening a scientist. Great job, Starfleet.
I was just watching the episode where they find the colony producing kemocite, and Archer spends a portion of the episode threatening a scientist. Great job, Starfleet.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
The tried being "gritty" like BSG and it was a farce. Especially since Bakula is as mean as a kitten playing with a ball of yarn.
SniperHunter
Banned
I am not a super star trek fan but I really enjoyed season 3 of Enterprise. You are right, it was nowhere as good as the Dominion war plot in DS9 but I still enjoyed it. It had great mystery, great acting and good action.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
Pretty much. Bakula would have been a decent fit as a captain with an actual interest in exploration, rather than a captain on a mission to destroy Earth's enemies.
Unfortunately, because of the Xindi plot, Earth is portrayed as never actually overcoming its bigotry. Now we just hate aliens instead of each other. Oh, but they have a laser that killed 7 million people, so it's all good. Let's go bomb them into smithereens guys. This is what Starfleet is all about, right? Starting wars?
The Dominion was so much better. Everyone knows they're this great threat, and they're willing to deal with them when the times comes, but they don't fly around looking for a fight. They definitely don't capture scientists and threaten them with phasers for answers.
Btw, do the Klingons ever show up in Enterprise?
I would have enjoyed what I saw a lot more had it not been a Star Trek show. I think the show itself had a lot of potential, but it was like the writers had never seen an episode of Star Trek in their lives.
I'll be honest, though. It's hard to like the show when every single one starts with that fucking awful theme song. What the fuck were they thinking?
IT'S BEEN A LLOOONGG TIME~~~
Odd, I think this is when people really started to get into the show. It had more exploration of things we really had yet to see, some awesome conflict. I think we all have to remember starfleet wasn't exactly a big player in the slightest at the time. There was a lot riding on the NX-01, I imagine that kind of pressure took its toll on the captain.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Yes. Ugh. I think they go into the stupid forehead ridge thing in an episode IIRC.
SniperHunter
Banned
They do, I remember an episode where Bakula is sent to the Klingon homeworld to face some kind of court case. I think he also spends time in a Klingon mining facility.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
Ha! I'll have to check it out for the lulz. What season is it?
I actually like the klingon episodes, Archer really shows some balls with them.
SniperHunter
Banned
yea that court case episode was really good, that's why I remember it.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Klingon_augment_virus
Ugh. It was the shitty Manny Coto (fourth) season.
Fuck, Manny Coto took a good joke from a DS9 fan service episode and made it into a two parter. God, when Star Trek is dumb, it's pretty dumb.
SniperHunter
Banned
Felix Lighter
Member
When TNG originally aired, I was only able to watch episodes here and there because we couldn't reliably get the broadcast network that carried the show in my region. Later I watched the show from time to time when it was on but never consistently. Over the last few months I started watching the series from the beginning on Netflix (I'm halfway through season six) and, even though most episodes are stand alone stories, there is enough call back to past events and character development across seasons, that watching them in order is a completely different experience. I'm looking forward to starting Deep Space 9 after I finish TNG.
Kind of random but I always found it odd that Data struggles with idioms. The concept doesn't seem anymore complicated than synonyms or words with multiple definitions.
Kind of random but I always found it odd that Data struggles with idioms. The concept doesn't seem anymore complicated than synonyms or words with multiple definitions.
I'm quite partial to the "Enterprising young men" Theme in Star Trek 2009, but for TV shows, I love the Deep Space 9 theme, more than I like the show.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
The original one or the remixed one when Worf joined the show? lol
Also, The Inner Light suite is the best piece of music ever produced for Star Trek. Yay or nay?
It probably didn't help that people were using 400 year old idioms for some reason. lol
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
They're both awesome, imo. The original is slightly better.
The Trap. So good. Reminds me of Mass Effect or some reason.
It wasn't the worse explanation in the world, lol, I remember Worfs reaction in the DS9 episode "We don't like to speak of it" or something along those lines.
I thought it was a reasonable explanation for the old Klingon look changing through different series without just out right ignoring it.
Rhomega Beta
Member
I grew up on Star Trek, mostly on the movies though. I had seen bits and pieces of TOS, TNG, DS9, and VOY, but never really got into them until I started investing in the TNG boxsets, and now I've seen every episode of that. I also have the first two seasons of TOS and VOY, but now that I have Netflix, I won't have to waste money getting the rest of the sets. Still haven't really seen DS9 or Enterprise.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
Watch DS9. It's a fantastic series with plenty of great standalone episodes, AND a great ongoing plot. Tonally, it's very different from TNG, but it's a great change of pace.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
It... didn't need explaining though. You might as well try to explain why a tricorder in TOS looks like 5 iphones glued together or why a communicator design would go back to a flip phone style that no one uses anymore. lol
Ah man, that's pretty classic. It's sad that I remember the episode just from listening to that music though.
Tied with the theme used in A Matter of Perspective:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQteSPQvVLI
Just wish it was longer.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Man, I remember that too. lol
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
Ah man, that's pretty classic. It's sad that I remember the episode just from listening to that music though.
I dunno if it's sad. It remains one of my most favorite TNG episodes because of that cue. It fits that whole scene so damn well.
For some reason I don't like the Deep Sapce nine theme, something about it, I always fast forward through the credits, it was the most inline with TNG though.
Personally though I always liked the Voyager one, probably my favourite, but it is probably more to do with the music along with the visuals of Voyager traveling through space. That's budgets for you though, didn't exactly get a lot of shots of starships flying through space next to some really nice visuals of planets and other such space environments, as nice as it is seeing default defiant or warp from the same angle for the 70th time, lol.
Well I didn't say it needed to, lol, but it was reasonable enough.
Personally though I always liked the Voyager one, probably my favourite, but it is probably more to do with the music along with the visuals of Voyager traveling through space. That's budgets for you though, didn't exactly get a lot of shots of starships flying through space next to some really nice visuals of planets and other such space environments, as nice as it is seeing default defiant or warp from the same angle for the 70th time, lol.
It... didn't need explaining though. You might as well try to explain why a tricorder in TOS looks like 5 iphones glued together or why a communicator design would go back to a flip phone style that no one uses anymore. lol
Ah man, that's pretty classic. It's sad that I remember the episode just from listening to that music though.
Well I didn't say it needed to, lol, but it was reasonable enough.
SpoonyBard
Banned
Funny how Errand of Mercy, which was the first Klingon episode, is also the best one. Been rewatching TOS, and really liking it... again.
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
It's probably already been mentioned but Amazon is doing a sale right now on the Original Motion Picture(I-VI) blu-ray set.
$39.99 - http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001TH16DI/?tag=neogaf0e-20
I went ahead and ordered one.
$39.99 - http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001TH16DI/?tag=neogaf0e-20
I went ahead and ordered one.
benjipwns
Banned
Within the first five minutes of the series. Probably the first minute.
OneEightZero
aka ThreeOneFour
benjipwns
Banned
To go with this and other comments.
Basically, we have to remember it was written right after 9/11 and during another run up to a war.
And despite anything the arc gave the show a purpose and direction for a change. The early show was basically leftover Voyager plots and "lol they don't know those are [whoever]" plots. There's some good stuff in there, but the idea that this was the lone Earth ship charting the path (literally) to the eventual Federation was barely there. (Which the arc doesn't truly do all that much and invents something we had never heard of before.)
It also killed off the Temporal Cold War which was nothing but dumb.
Coto's fangasm season tries to do the original premise of how did we get from First Contact to The Federation. But gets bogged down in trying to eliminate contradictions and addressing minor details.
The Xindi arc would have worked MUCH better as tied to the Romulan War (because they wouldn't have had to show it, I can't imagine what the Fifth Season might have done to that canon wise) but I don't think they had any clue what to ever do with Enterprise from the start.
A true anthology series would have been interesting to do. On cable where you get 13 episode seasons. Something like a season with Archer's ship, then Enterprise-B, Enterprise-C, the Romulan War, Stargazer, etc.
Went back and looked at last page, had missed:
Yeah, he may have all that financial backing and industry pull, but does he know what the people want? And by people I mean me.
And that means not just a more traditional Trek series but also a side series for Wesley Crusher: Teenage Fuck Machine.
benjipwns
Banned
I actually like Voyager's theme quite a bit. Shame the show doesn't live up to it.
How about the films?
Star Trek II: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiDdi5G7ftc
Star Trek III: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7O3PvzXCVJw
Star Trek IV: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ct5-__9VTAY
Star Trek VI: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0yiiivbJFU
First Contact: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhoa7oWPPhk
II and First Contact are some of my favorite movie themes for all films. In Trek I prefer them to the TMP/V/TNG historic.
VI almost sounds like something for Batman.