Tasha had by far the most interesting backstory of any of the original TNG regulars.
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The General Star Trek Thread of Earl Grey Tea, Baseball, and KHHHAAAANNNN
- Thread starter The Librarian
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Tasha had by far the most interesting backstory of any of the original TNG regulars.
how you never saw whats considered one of the absolute best is shocking. A Fantastic episodeB_Rik_Schitthaus
Banned
I went for the gag, I think she was one of the better S1 characters, coming from a destroyed world was interesting.
Her conversion she has where Wesley says 'why would anyone take drugs' shows just how cornbread the should could be.
Denise Crosby was wooden, and her departure from the show was as great as her ridiculous reappearance (as the Romulan) was awful.
Escape Goat
Member
What? Shes the only one who emoted, as in acted, in the first season. Well, Frakes actually had some life to him. Stewart had Picard down pretty well in Season 1. Everyone else phoned it in.
SpoonyBard
Banned
Well, she tried. But the results were pretty terrible. Yesterday's Enterprise was the only episode where her acting was tolerable.
edit:
+her leaving the show meant bigger role for Worf. And I think most people agree that this was a very good thing.
Escape Goat
Member
Yeah, they had an advert of S2 on the first season.
That's awesome then! Those shots look so good.
Season 2 comes out this fall. Season 3 is planned for spring then 4 in fall 2013. Basically 2 seasons a year
That gives me plenty of time then to save up for them.
Escape Goat
Member
Contagion has always been one of my favorite episodes. I think because the Romulans were actually kind of scary.
Henchmen21
Banned
I don't get that at all. Why does her leaving somehow give Worf more time? I'm sure he still would've gotten screen time if she had stayed on.
Worf was mostly just scenery when the show started. Yar was definitely given the bulk of the "militant viewpoint" time in the show and that probably would have continued. Without Yar leaving I don't know that there would have been much of a gap for him to fill, like there was for Geordi (for some reason they had no chief engineer when the show started. Who's idiotic idea was that?)
LumpOfCole
Member
It could've been worse. Imagine if Picard told Wesley "You know, Wesley, we don't have a chief engineer, and you seem so extremely bright.... How would you like to be the youngest chief engineer in Starfleet history?"
Fast forward to Season 3.
"Chief Engineer Wesley, this is the captain. Why is our ship moving on its own? Report in."
"I'm so sorry sir. I was experimenting with the warp drive and now the entire warp core has turned sentient and self aware. It's a life form now, Captain."
"God damnit, Wesley."
Is it horribly wrong that I really want to see this show?
(The @TNG_S8 twitter account does a lot of things along these lines, btw. Not sure if it's been mentioned in here yet.)
GameplayWhore
Member
Oh, man, we missed out on the planet of the Riker clones! D:
which reminds me, did we ever find out what happened to Thomas after that whole incident with the Defiant?
I don't begrudge you your opinion, but Denise Crosby posing for Playboy was the greatest thing that ever happened to Star Trek.
lastplayed
Member
Left left for Betazed and became king pimp.
Henchmen21
Banned
We already had an episode like that though. That dumbass season 7 ep about the ship creating a new life form.
Re: Tasha
I found her sister Ishara (also like that name) more interesting.
I didn't watch most of Voy so I fortunately missed out on all the Boothby overuse. It makes no sense that he be a mentor to all these people, and the flowers thing really has no place.
LOL you just described the Remember Me plot though!
I found her sister Ishara (also like that name) more interesting.
I didn't watch most of Voy so I fortunately missed out on all the Boothby overuse. It makes no sense that he be a mentor to all these people, and the flowers thing really has no place.
LOL you just described the Remember Me plot though!
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Least the engineer would have had more to do. Geordi was largely forgotten unless he was there to be a foil for Data to play off of.
According to Memory Alpha...
- Life sentence in the daily misery of a Cardassian forced labor camp until he dies from the harsh conditions.
- A promise from Major Kira that she'd break him out someday.
- Placed on a list of subjects the DS9 producers were no longer interested in hearing about. Too much juicy Kira/Odo romance to work with.
- Jonathan Frakes asked Ron Moore to break him out during the Cardassian rebellion. Didn't happen.
- Baseless fan rumors that Section 31 eventually broke him out and recruited him.
- Various non-canon materials ranging from death in captivity to command of a Galaxy class starship.
:lol
You know, even in a field of television as chemistry-barren as SF, I think it's notably just how little chemistry these two had.
lastplayed
Member
The Odo/Quark romance was far juicier.
LumpOfCole
Member
Have you guys seen the official art for the Doctor Who / Star Trek TNG comic? It's... uh... well it's a bit rough in places.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Just finished rewatching DS9. I remain a little frustrated at the ambiguity of Odo's final scene, and to a lesser extent Sisko's. I think there's less emotional satisfaction not knowing if they'd ever return than knowing one way or the other.
Also odd: Worf's finale montage not having a single scene involving Jadzia.
All in all I think the show has generally grown on me since the last time I watched it. A lot of stuff works very well. Vic Fontaine has grown on me. Ezri is actually a pretty impressive example of how to introduce a character late in the game and still give her depth. I think the finale Dukat/Kai Winn plot actually works fairly well.
A few things about the show simply do not work. Bashir's genetic enhancement is embarrassing--an easy an obvious misfire from the first time it is brought up, and then they continue to include it in MANY subsequent episodes for no reason. The Maquis plot was pretty half-baked. The Jem Hadar feel neutered in the last season or two of the show, and the Breen don't work at all. The Changelings never have a good moment after Odo is turned into a human. Every episode after that they are pretty unthreatening.
Finally, the show really feels starved for budget. No set comes even close to the Promenade, and as a result, none of the moments meant to portray scope or scale or the centres of the galactic powers work. In contrast to this, TNGs Klingon High Council episodes feel suitably high budget. The Changeling/Cardassians last stand is pretty laughable, with Kira, Garak, and one other rando able to storm the Cardassian command centre, which is apparently a hallway and an office. I don't like the abuse of chroma key VFX virtual sets, but at least they allow us to pretend.
The same is true for the cast size. The effect of the Prophet's appearing as familiar faces feels cheap. We only see maybe 3-4 Vorta in the whole series. The female Changeling is the only face of the Founders. On the federation side, only Admiral Ross seems involved in the war at all. In the final battle, we see only the Sao Paolo/Defiant 2, Ross, Martok (literally no Romulan appears at all in the back half of the seventh season). Just makes the whole thing flimsier.
In terms of narrative, I think DS9 has a better ending than just about any sci-fi. I just really wish it was made with HBO's budget and ability to target a slightly more savvy audience and the advantage of another decade of technology.
Next up, my first watch of Babylon 5, which is WAY more low budget.
Also odd: Worf's finale montage not having a single scene involving Jadzia.
All in all I think the show has generally grown on me since the last time I watched it. A lot of stuff works very well. Vic Fontaine has grown on me. Ezri is actually a pretty impressive example of how to introduce a character late in the game and still give her depth. I think the finale Dukat/Kai Winn plot actually works fairly well.
A few things about the show simply do not work. Bashir's genetic enhancement is embarrassing--an easy an obvious misfire from the first time it is brought up, and then they continue to include it in MANY subsequent episodes for no reason. The Maquis plot was pretty half-baked. The Jem Hadar feel neutered in the last season or two of the show, and the Breen don't work at all. The Changelings never have a good moment after Odo is turned into a human. Every episode after that they are pretty unthreatening.
Finally, the show really feels starved for budget. No set comes even close to the Promenade, and as a result, none of the moments meant to portray scope or scale or the centres of the galactic powers work. In contrast to this, TNGs Klingon High Council episodes feel suitably high budget. The Changeling/Cardassians last stand is pretty laughable, with Kira, Garak, and one other rando able to storm the Cardassian command centre, which is apparently a hallway and an office. I don't like the abuse of chroma key VFX virtual sets, but at least they allow us to pretend.
The same is true for the cast size. The effect of the Prophet's appearing as familiar faces feels cheap. We only see maybe 3-4 Vorta in the whole series. The female Changeling is the only face of the Founders. On the federation side, only Admiral Ross seems involved in the war at all. In the final battle, we see only the Sao Paolo/Defiant 2, Ross, Martok (literally no Romulan appears at all in the back half of the seventh season). Just makes the whole thing flimsier.
In terms of narrative, I think DS9 has a better ending than just about any sci-fi. I just really wish it was made with HBO's budget and ability to target a slightly more savvy audience and the advantage of another decade of technology.
Next up, my first watch of Babylon 5, which is WAY more low budget.
lastplayed
Member
Escape Goat
Member
why wouldn't you want one of the Federation's best officers with loose morals fighting with your secret spy agency with no morals? Seems like its a good fit to me!
lastplayed
Member
Also tons of stock battle footage which really annoyed me (seeing the Defiant's original registry plastered all over the Sao Paulo/Defiant 2 for example).
At least Babylon 5 used all original CGI with their space battles.
Davey Cakes
Member
Yeah, good luck with that. I loved Babylon 5 but if you were able to notice where DS9 dropped the ball with its budget, everything in B5 will stand out like a sore thumb.
That said, it's an engaging show regardless of its shortcomings, and its story arcs (especially between Seasons 2-4) are as good as anything in DS9.
But seriously, if there's any show with obvious "mastering problems" it's B5.
is it worth the effort to break him out, though?
firehawk12
Subete no aware
JMS has basically said an HD version of B5 will never happen because they'd have to redo all the CG. That's just unfortunate.
Then again, at least they had the foresight to shoot everything in widescreen. lol
I wonder if a Kickstarter would work for something like this, although there'd be nothing they could really give to low tier donors.
Labor camps aren't exactly high security. They're messy and disorganized and they're constantly creating bad situations by putting dangerous tools into the hands of prisoners. From the outside, with time and resources and intel and planning, they're easy targets.
Will Riker was apparently a Starfleet superstar before he went soft in the #2 chair on the luxury flagship. Tom Riker is definitely desirable, especially since Sloan died.
And sometimes a borderline-psychotic Captain comes along and just picks one of the prisoners out and makes them a Lieutenant.
It literally pains me to see B5's arcs undersold to this degree.
The Librarian
Banned
While clearly planned out, B5's arcs were not without their problems and inconsistencies. For example, Londo being filled with glee at the thought of Veer killing many Narns after he watched clearly in horror as the Cenaturi fleet bombed Narn back into the stone age.
Saying "they're as good as DS9's" is fair.
I don't really find it that unusual that he could still harbor his ill feelings toward the Narn at that point, even while he finds it distasteful to use mass drivers (which were considered illegal by most races) even if on his hated enemies. That said, I'd say that Londo and G'kar's character development throughout the series dwarfs any character development that occurred in DS9.
Davey Cakes
Member
Well, it's a Star Trek thread so I was just being modest, trying not to talk up B5 in DS9's wake. I enjoyed both shows so I don't mean to undersell either one.
Londo and G'Kar's arc was amazing though. I guess it doesn't hurt to give that a small plug.
Escape Goat
Member
Kira and O'Brien broke Li Nalas out of a Cardassian prison colony and they didn't even have a big ship or cloaking device. They pretty much waltzed in, grabbed the guy and took off.
The Librarian
Banned
If we're taking aim at the show's consistency, it's pretty clear early on that Londo does not like the idea – or at the very least is not comfortable with the thought – of thousands of Narns being killed. His exchange with Mordin in "Chrysalis" really says it all:
Emphasis mine.
So you're saying he was only disgusted by the use of mass drivers and not that it resulted in the deaths of millions of Narns? He clearly had a problem with Narn deaths in the tens of thousands, yet later on when he learns Vir's actions resulted in a comparable (I forget the exact number) amount, and at face value, in cold blood, he's practically gleeful.
But all of this is besides my larger point that B5's arcs had their shortcomings and I think that, overall, saying that "they're as good as DS9's" is completely fair. The two shows were different, though. The Dominion War was DS9, DS9 was not the Dominion War. It's location was of little strategic significance following its recapture.
Edit: The same case can be made for either show's character development. Londo and G'Kar were central to the universe and the events within. DS9 treated its main characters more like people in a war, more like "average Joes."
Melchiah
Member
Posted this on the YouTube thread yesterday, but perhaps it fits here better.
The dark side of holodeck. Absolutely hilarious, and NSFW. The guy has made several Star Trek related videos.
The Lonely Enterprise - Love's Loneliness
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbNyQxv537Q
The dark side of holodeck. Absolutely hilarious, and NSFW. The guy has made several Star Trek related videos.
The Lonely Enterprise - Love's Loneliness
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbNyQxv537Q
We've been down this road before, you and I, so I'm not even going to try to argue the greater point with you. B5 has its shortcomings, but if B5's arcs have shortcomings then DS9's have black holes you could fly a romulan mining ship through.
On this specific point: a) It's Vir. b) Londo is a deeply conflicted character throughout the show. What you point out as a weakness is B5's strength. Londo's evolution as a character feels real precisely because he isn't so easy to pin down. c) Londo, in public, is always jovial -- even about horrible things. It's a mask he puts on. "No one here is exactly what he appears." c) This isn't anything to do with a plot arc. This is character development.
I don't really recall him being that gleeful, to be honest, and I'd bet I've watched this much more recently than you.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
I have no idea how much it costs to make good looking CG for an episode, let alone a series, but I assume it'd cost millions to redo all those effects.
Of course, the only thing JMS cares about as it relates to B5 is a feature film... and even then, I don't even know if that's a concern for him now.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
I think the tepid response to the DVD movie was the final nail in the coffin.
I remember he had so much hope because that Angelina Jolie movie he wrote was nominated for Oscars and he thought he might have some juice for B5.