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[Zzoram]

And if they make it for CW, it won't be TNG-era Trek, it'll be a show geared towards teenage girls, which is something that Abrams-Trek (with Chris Pine and Zachary Quinto) can become with some very minor tweaking.

A Star Trek TV show aimed more at teenage girls could be a good thing. It could make Star Trek be perceived as less nerdy and more appealing to girls and spark interest in science in generations of girls like it did for generations of boys.

Superheroes were always targeted at boys but Smallville on the CW demonstrated that a genre aimed at boys can be adapted so that it appeals to girls as much as boys. This is important for removing negative perceptions of the genre and widening the potential audience. Perhaps if more sci-fi shows were targeted more at teenage girls, sci-fi would stop being perceived as a niche thing for nerdy guys and become a more widely enjoyed genre.

 

[Henchmen21]

A Star Trek TV show aimed more at teenage girls could be a good thing. It could make Star Trek be perceived as less nerdy and more appealing to girls and spark interest in science in generations of girls like it did for generations of boys.

Superheroes were always targeted at boys but Smallville on the CW demonstrated that a genre aimed at boys can be adapted so that it appeals to girls as much as boys. This is important for removing negative perceptions of the genre and widening the potential audience. Perhaps if more sci-fi shows were targeted more at teenage girls, sci-fi would stop being perceived as a niche thing for nerdy guys and become a more widely enjoyed genre.

Or they could make Star Trek the good show it used to be and girls could watch it on their own instead of pandering. The old show never pandered and plenty of famous and important women were fans. One of the first black female astronauts was fan enough to have a small cameo on TNG. Also, pandering in that way is belittling to women. You don't have to have stereotypical "girly" things in a show for woman to enjoy them.

Besides, Nuwho panders in that way and it utterly ruined it.

 

[Zzoram]

Or they could make Star Trek the good show it used to be and girls could watch it on their own instead of pandering. The old show never pandered and plenty of famous and important women were fans. One of the first black female astronauts was fan enough to have a small cameo on TNG. Also, pandering in that way is belittling to women. You don't have to have stereotypical "girly" things in a show for woman to enjoy them.

Besides, Nuwho panders in that way and it utterly ruined it.

The show as it is panders to guys far too much. An obvious example are the catsuit big breasted women that look glaringly out of place but keep getting added to pander to the male audience. We're to believe that Ensign Ro's earring was violating dress code so much that Riker angrily demanded that she remove it, but Deanni Troi's catsuit with cleavage is regulation for a Lt. Commander on the bridge of the Starfleet flagship? No other female Starfleet Officers wear a catsuit and definitely not a bridge officer. A show aimed at females as much as males would probably not do something like that, or would at least have a male counterpart if they did. Pandering equally isn't belittling to women. The current pandering is belittling to men. They seem to think men need to see cleavage every episode to stay interested.

 

[davepoobond]

a new Star Trek show that wasnt on a major network might not work out. although, its possible that they might try to do more streaming stuff to capitalize on getting Netflix money and whatever other streaming services are out there if it was syndicated on cable channels.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

JJ though I think has made it pretty clear he will walk away if they try and do TV while he is doing movies.

What a shame

 

[Henchmen21]

The show as it is panders to guys far too much. An obvious example are the catsuit big breasted women that look glaringly out of place but keep getting added to pander to the male audience. We're to believe that Ensign Ro's earring was violating dress code so much that Riker angrily demanded that she remove it, but Deanni Troi's catsuit with cleavage is regulation for a Lt. Commander on the bridge of the Starfleet flagship? No other female Starfleet Officers wear a catsuit and definitely not a bridge officer. A show aimed at females as much as males would probably not do something like that, or would at least have a male counterpart if they did. Pandering equally isn't belittling to women. The current pandering is belittling to men. They seem to think men need to see cleavage every episode to stay interested.

Yes there was Troi (besides, the only really low cut one was the greyish one from the first season. The later season ones were a little more sensible), who was ships counselor and didn't need to follow dress code so strictly, but there was every other female character on the show who wore regulation attire unless they were civilian in which case they still wore something sensible. The Riker example you mention though doesn't work as he had a beef with her before she even beamed aboard and would use any justification to jump down her throat.

What a shame

Lol more reason to create one if means getting that hack away from Star Trek.

 

[Zzoram]

Doesn't matter what her job was, she was a Starfleet bridge officer, she should've been wearing a uniform. It's a shame it took so long to finally put her in a real uniform. I couldn't take her seriously wearing the cleavage catsuit. She looked more like the Captain's mistress than an officer.

 

[Henchmen21]

Doesn't matter what her job was, she was a Starfleet bridge officer, she should've been wearing a uniform. It's a shame it took so long to finally put her in a real uniform. I couldn't take her seriously wearing the cleavage catsuit. She looked more like the Captain's mistress than an officer.

Even still, she wasn't the norm though. She was an outlier at best.





*Technically, she did wear a standard uniform in the pilot. The unisex "skant" that was so bad it didn't show up past the pilot.

 

[Zzoram]

Even still, she wasn't the norm though. She was an outlier at best.





*Technically, she did wear a standard uniform in the pilot. The unisex "skant" that was so bad it didn't show up past the pilot.

The fact that she wasn't the norm made it more terrible. There was no in-universe good reason for her to wear a catsuit and show cleavage on the bridge. There is also no good reason for the ship's counselor to sit right beside the Captain at all times instead of in an office privately talking to the crew. It was so absurdly obvious that she was just on the show to show cleavage.

 

[CorrisD]

The fact that she wasn't the norm made it more terrible. There was no in-universe good reason for her to wear a catsuit and show cleavage on the bridge. There is also no good reason for the ship's counselor to sit right beside the Captain at all times instead of in an office privately talking to the crew. It was so absurdly obvious that she was just on the show to show cleavage.

The way you keep going on about her cleavage you think most of her boobs would be hanging out, I watched the whole TNG series a few months ago over the course of like two weeks and barely noticed her boobs being on show the way you are going on about it, lol.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

I think Jellico forced her to wear standard uniform when he took command of the enterprise.

He also slapped down beardy and made data first officer, which was brilliant

 

[Cheerilee]

If Chris Pine and Zachary Quinto have weekly sexy adventures in space, and Chris Pine keeps losing his shirt, and it's entertaining (the most important part), then I'm totally gonna watch that.

 

[Zzoram]

I think Jellico forced her to wear standard uniform when he took command of the enterprise.

He also slapped down beardy and made data first officer, which was brilliant

All excellent changes.

 

[Henchmen21]

I think Jellico forced her to wear standard uniform when he took command of the enterprise.

He also slapped down beardy and made data first officer, which was brilliant

Yes. In the two part "Chain of Command" eps from season 6

 

[DrForester]

SFDebris schedule for the month is up.

Really looking forward to "Timeless".

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

Watched Star Trek Generations the other day I think for the first time (don't recall having seen it before, but I may have seen parts on tv or something).

It was okaayy. Out of the Trek movies I've watched, First Contact is still my favorite.

Also in the middle of Nemesis, but I'm pretty sure I've watched at least parts of it before if not all the way through.

Shame we never got a DS9 movie, though it was wrapped up pretty tightly with the series finale.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Have you seen 2/6?

 

[Zzoram]

Watched Star Trek Generations the other day I think for the first time (don't recall having seen it before, but I may have seen parts on tv or something).

It was okaayy. Out of the Trek movies I've watched, First Contact is still my favorite.

Also in the middle of Nemesis, but I'm pretty sure I've watched at least parts of it before if not all the way through.

Shame we never got a DS9 movie, though it was wrapped up pretty tightly with the series finale.

I really enjoyed ST6 the most I think. It felt the deepest of all the movies. First Contact had the best action and special effects though.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Same. cold war + plummer + warner + racism + snappy dialogue

Meyers trick of exhausting shatner to get the best out of him is genius.

 

[ZedIndyLil]

A kind relative got me the TNG 365 book for Christmas, which has sucked me back into Trek. Considering a movie marathon at some point on Amazon Prime. Or maybe also some late-season Voyager to see what I missed when I got fed up with the whole thing.

By the way, for those with Amazon Prime: although TNG comes up as "Currently Unavailable" on a search, just click through and it is still there to stream free. Dunno why that is.

 

[Rinoa]

Not sure if this was posted before, star trek tng makeup tests
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lvG0jm0B5Y

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Or maybe also some late-season Voyager to see what I missed when I got fed up with the whole thing.

nothing good

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

nothing good

The finale is good at least. Would have to browse through an episode list to see if anything else was decent though.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

The finale is good at least. Would have to browse through an episode list to see if anything else was decent though.

In my opinion Endgame is one of the most anti-trek things ever made. And not in a real-world khan\undiscovered\ds9 way.

 

[Brannon]

I've been watching TNG and came up to the "Inner Light" episode.

Goddamn it.

You just don't DO that to somebody!

 

[firehawk12]

I've been watching TNG and came up to the "Inner Light" episode.

Goddamn it.

You just don't DO that to somebody!

Random factoid: the actor that played son in the episode is Stewart's actual son.

 

[Scapegoat]

I've never really been into Star Trek (though I did watch a bunch of Voyager when I was a kid) but I've since been watching the blurays of TNG. Was hooked by the end of season 2 and now I have to settle for the comparatively blurry DVDs :/.

I was super gutted right away to see that Dr Crusher has returned and Dr Polaski has been unceremoniously dropped. Does she ever come back? We don't even get to see a leaving party?

Perhaps it was just the fact that season 1 was so clunky and cobbled together compared to the much tighter season 2 (in all respects, writing, acting, action), but my interpretation of Dr Polaski was that of being so much more competent as a doctor and likable as a person than Crusher. I knew Dr Crusher was coming back but I had hoped they would keep them both, I mean it doesn't seem very wise to have a single trained doctor on a ship of over a thousand...

Also it kinda sucked that the season 2 finale was a clip show...

 

[Escape Goat]

I am watching TNG Season 2 bluray and I can see a lot of the guy's chest hair poking up from their uniform. Its driving me crazy (in the bad way). Someone did a shitty job on Troi's makeup in The Child. You see huge smudges of makeup thats been caked on. Too much definition is a bad thing sometimes

 

[Scapegoat]

I am watching TNG Season 2 bluray and I can see a lot of the guy's chest hair poking up from their uniform. Its driving me crazy (in the bad way). Someone did a shitty job on Troi's makeup in The Child. You see huge smudges of makeup thats been caked on. Too much definition is a bad thing sometimes

Yeah it's pretty funny that everyone is forced to wear a skin tight uniform that shows way to much on anyone even the slightest bit overweight. Most admirals (old dudes) look pretty stupid for this reason. Also their formal dresses lol. And the one token male extra who wears a dress 24/7. And, even after hundreds of years of medical advancement half of all male officers still seem to suffer from male pattern baldness.

Is Lwaxana Troi is the Federations biggest troll? I mean, if she can feel what people are feeling, why does she keep annoying Picard and co.?

I bet she sticks around cause all Riker/Picard/Worf/Wesley think about is a massive gangbang on the bridge. Tell me I'm wrong.

 

[Kurdel]

Is Lwaxana Troi is the Federations biggest troll? I mean, if she can feel what people are feeling, why does she keep annoying Picard and co.?

 

[SpoonyBard]

Someone did a shitty job on Troi's makeup in The Child. You see huge smudges of makeup thats been caked on. Too much definition is a bad thing sometimes

Her makeup was also weird in the pilot. And Data's makeup varies a lot..

 

[Duane Cunningham]

I've been watching TOS and I'm about halfway through season 2. Man, what a great show. Just finished Mirror Mirror. It's fun to see all these iconic scenarios that I've seen a million parodies of and references to, but had never seen the original.

 

[Henchmen21]

I've been watching TNG and came up to the "Inner Light" episode.

Goddamn it.

You just don't DO that to somebody!

Lol you mean the episode as a whole or something more specific?

I've never really been into Star Trek (though I did watch a bunch of Voyager when I was a kid) but I've since been watching the blurays of TNG. Was hooked by the end of season 2 and now I have to settle for the comparatively blurry DVDs :/.

I was super gutted right away to see that Dr Crusher has returned and Dr Polaski has been unceremoniously dropped. Does she ever come back? We don't even get to see a leaving party?

Perhaps it was just the fact that season 1 was so clunky and cobbled together compared to the much tighter season 2 (in all respects, writing, acting, action), but my interpretation of Dr Polaski was that of being so much more competent as a doctor and likable as a person than Crusher. I knew Dr Crusher was coming back but I had hoped they would keep them both, I mean it doesn't seem very wise to have a single trained doctor on a ship of over a thousand...

Also it kinda sucked that the season 2 finale was a clip show...

Welcome to the fold. TNG is the pinnacle of trek.

Pulaski only gets mentioned once in season 3 and then we never hear about her again. I'm with you btw. I preferred Pulaski to the bland Crusher. Crusher only ever shined occasionally. Like season 5's "Ethics"

 

[Deleted member 102362]

I've never really been into Star Trek (though I did watch a bunch of Voyager when I was a kid) but I've since been watching the blurays of TNG. Was hooked by the end of season 2 and now I have to settle for the comparatively blurry DVDs :/.

I was super gutted right away to see that Dr Crusher has returned and Dr Polaski has been unceremoniously dropped. Does she ever come back? We don't even get to see a leaving party?

Perhaps it was just the fact that season 1 was so clunky and cobbled together compared to the much tighter season 2 (in all respects, writing, acting, action), but my interpretation of Dr Polaski was that of being so much more competent as a doctor and likable as a person than Crusher. I knew Dr Crusher was coming back but I had hoped they would keep them both, I mean it doesn't seem very wise to have a single trained doctor on a ship of over a thousand...

Pulaski only gets mentioned once in season 3 and then we never hear about her again. I'm with you btw. I preferred Pulaski to the bland Crusher. Crusher only ever shined occasionally. Like season 5's "Ethics"

Diana Muldaur did a very good job of giving Dr. Pulaski a distinct personality. There are a few things I wish had happened, though:

1: Her bigotry towards Data was something the writers could have used to show her character developing. Look at how Ellen Ripley first reacts to Bishop in Aliens: dislike and distrust, based on the events of Alien. But over the course of Aliens (and to a small extent, Alien 3) she comes to trust and rely on Bishop, with him becoming the fourth member of the "family" formed by the end of the movie. Why not have Pulaski have something similar? Sure, she becomes a bit less hostile towards him as time goes on, but it really hurt her character that she was so antagonistic towards him without any chance for her to have some kind of redemption. Seriously, the moments where she calls Data "it" and talks to others about him while he's in the room are cringeworthy. Maybe more could have been done with her in "The Measure of a Man."

2: Her departure from the show - what the hell? There should have been a season 3 scene where she and Dr. Crusher are discussing the Enterprise as the latter transfers back to the ship. There should have been something. And I agree with the sentiment that it would have made sense to have had two doctors of rank on board a ship of that many people.

I like Dr. Crusher just fine, but I also liked Dr. Pulaski, and I wish her character, both in writing and departure, had been treated better.

 

[Sapiens]

Diana Muldaur did a very good job of giving Dr. Pulaski a distinct personality. There are a few things I wish had happened, though:

1: Her bigotry towards Data was something the writers could have used to show her character developing. Look at how Ellen Ripley first reacts to Bishop in Aliens: dislike and distrust, based on the events of Alien. But over the course of Aliens (and to a small extent, Alien 3) she comes to trust and rely on Bishop, with him becoming the fourth member of the "family" formed by the end of the movie. Why not have Pulaski have something similar? Sure, she becomes a bit less hostile towards him as time goes on, but it really hurt her character that she was so antagonistic towards him without any chance for her to have some kind of redemption. Seriously, the moments where she calls Data "it" and talks to others about him while he's in the room are cringeworthy. Maybe more could have been done with her in "The Measure of a Man."

2: Her departure from the show - what the hell? There should have been a season 3 scene where she and Dr. Crusher are discussing the Enterprise as the latter transfers back to the ship. There should have been something. And I agree with the sentiment that it would have made sense to have had two doctors of rank on board a ship of that many people.

I like Dr. Crusher just fine, but I also liked Dr. Pulaski, and I wish her character, both in writing and departure, had been treated better.

Yeah, I agree with this, but for the most part, The Doctor was something TNG just never got right, but with a show so heavily focused on the Captain character (moreso than TOS), what can you do? Stewart just ran circles around these cheap soap opera actors they rounded up.

DS9 and Voyager both got it right, of course.

 

[SniperHunter]

Is it just me or is the origin story totally botched? My memory isn't that great so bear with me, but originally Cpt Picard and crew discover a coded map in ancient DNA samples, they discover an extinct alien species that spread it's DNA across the galaxy. Secondly, the DS9 crew runs into the "founders" who look exactly like the extinct alien civilization but the founders are evil as fuck. Finally, the enterprise crew runs into the xindi and their contacts from the future who also look exactly like the ancient race that Picard and co discovered, but this time the ancient bald race is trying to convert space into their domain.

Kinda reminded me of the plot in Prometheus

Spoiler

Engineers seed Earth, then they want to destroy it for no reason

 

[Zzoram]

Is it just me or is the origin story totally botched? My memory isn't that great so bear with me, but originally Cpt Picard and crew discover a coded map in ancient DNA samples, they discover an extinct alien species that spread it's DNA across the galaxy. Secondly, the DS9 crew runs into the "founders" who look exactly like the extinct alien civilization but the founders are evil as fuck. Finally, the enterprise crew runs into the xindi and their contacts from the future who also look exactly like the ancient race that Picard and co discovered, but this time the ancient bald race is trying to convert space into their domain.

Kinda reminded me of the plot in Prometheus

Spoiler

Engineers seed Earth, then they want to destroy it for no reason

Naw it's just a common way for people to look. Everyone evolved similar features because of the origin species wanting everyone to look alike and be friends.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Plus ancient civ actress plays the female founder.

 

[Deleted member 102362]

Speaking of "The Measure of a Man," I just watched the HD extended cut and decided to mark all of the extensions, both big and small. Here they are, with timestamps (Memory Alpha's episode article is more detailed regarding the longer extensions):

Nakamura turbolift conversation
7:52 - 8:45

Nakamura transmission to Picard
12:51 - 13:30

Data/Picard ready room conversation 1
14:10 - 14:24

Data/Picard ready room conversation 2
14:53 - 15:23

Picard: Shot of Starfleet Regulations
16:24 - 16:30

Data/LaForge Holmes conversation
18:18 - 19:38

Data/Pulaksi party conversation
26:17 - 26:48

Troi/Riker party conversation
27:39 - 28:22

Maddox interrupts Data's party
28:23 - 29:16

Riker/Louvious hearing conversation
30:21 - 30:30

Picard/Riker fencing conversation
32:41 - 33:54

Data/Picard sentience conversation
33:55 - 35:34

Extended/alternate angle Louvious intro
36:52 - 37:12

Picard/Maddox courtroom conversation 1
47:55 - 48:01

Picard/Maddox courtroom conversation 2
48:09 - 48:14

Picard/Maddox courtroom conversation 3
50:17 - 50:27

Louvious courtroom extension
52:41 - 52:48

Data/Riker lounge conversation
55:36 - 55:06

 

[Zzoram]

Plus ancient civ actress plays the female founder.

Trek loves reusing actors and designing similar aliens with minimal make-up to reduce cost.

 

[maharg]

Is it just me or is the origin story totally botched? My memory isn't that great so bear with me, but originally Cpt Picard and crew discover a coded map in ancient DNA samples, they discover an extinct alien species that spread it's DNA across the galaxy. Secondly, the DS9 crew runs into the "founders" who look exactly like the extinct alien civilization but the founders are evil as fuck. Finally, the enterprise crew runs into the xindi and their contacts from the future who also look exactly like the ancient race that Picard and co discovered, but this time the ancient bald race is trying to convert space into their domain.

Kinda reminded me of the plot in Prometheus

Spoiler

Engineers seed Earth, then they want to destroy it for no reason

The Founders (DS9) look like that because they choose to in order to interact with the people of the galaxy who are (according to that TNG episode) descended from the precurser. Their natural form is goop, and they have some difficulty maintaining the nuances of human-like appearances.

 

[evilwart]

Aren't the founders mimicking Odo? Odo looks like he does because its the closest to a humanoid he is able to shift into (his appearance is based off the Bajoran scientist who raised him). The other Changelings are master shifters that have perfection humanoid form and could take any form they choose (a Changeling was disguised as Bashir for months). They originally chose to look like Odo to make him feel comfortable and ended up sticking with it for no real apparent reason.

Laas, the other 100 Changeling seen in DS9, looks different from them because he's mimicking a different alien humanoid race. The Odo from the alternate timeline in Children of Time had a more detailed, human appearance because he'd had 100-200 years improving his shapeshifting.

 

[SniperHunter]

The Founders (DS9) look like that because they choose to in order to interact with the people of the galaxy who are (according to that TNG episode) descended from the precurser. Their natural form is goop, and they have some difficulty maintaining the nuances of human-like appearances.

the enterprise alien race had amorphous bodies, this was shown during the middle of season 3, they could travel through matter (hinting at a possible connection between the founders and the ancient bald race)

 

[DrForester]

Aren't the founders mimicking Odo? Odo looks like he does because its the closest to a humanoid he is able to shift into (his appearance is based off the Bajoran scientist who raised him). The other Changelings are master shifters that have perfection humanoid form and could take any form they choose (a Changeling was disguised as Bashir for months). They originally chose to look like Odo to make him feel comfortable and ended up sticking with it for no real apparent reason.

Laas, the other 100 Changeling seen in DS9, looks different from them because he's mimicking a different alien humanoid race. The Odo from the alternate timeline in Children of Time had a more detailed, human appearance because he'd had 100-200 years improving his shapeshifting.

I'm pretty sure that they mentioned that they assumed that form because of Odo. Not to mock him, because at first they were glad to have him back.

 

[Cheebo]

What a shame

Paramount doesn't see it that way. To the studio Abrams saved Star Trek.

 

[maharg]

I'm pretty sure that they mentioned that they assumed that form because of Odo. Not to mock him, because at first they were glad to have him back.

He said mimic, not mock.

And yeah, that's right re. why the Founders took that form. My point still stands, there's no connection between the progenitors and the founders. In fact, the founders may be the only example of unrelated sentient species Star Trek ever had.

I don't really remember anything about the Sphere Builders, but I doubt they were supposed to be related in any way to either.

Paramount doesn't see it that way. To the studio Abrams saved Star Trek.

To be fair, that's because he did.

 

[Henchmen21]

To be fair, that's because he did.

Only financially. In every way that mattered, he destroyed it.

 

[maharg]

Only financially. In every way that mattered, he destroyed it.

Except not even a little bit.

 

[KarmaCow]

Sorry if this inappropriate, I didn't want to create a LTTP thread for a show I'm not done with but does Babylon 5 end in a satisfying or at least not terrible way? BSG's ending retroactively ruined the show for me, so I'd like to avoid that if possible.

I'm going through season 2 and I think I'm at the point where I could drop the show without worrying about the ending, but I wouldn't mind finishing it either. There is a weird change in tone, I'm guessing because Sinclair's actor leaving made Straczynski push the story forward sooner than expected. The show seems to have received a huge budget increase in season 2 though.

Only financially. In every way that mattered, he destroyed it.

You can't kill what's already dead.

Okay that was harsh and I don't really like the direction either but ST wasn't exactly doing well.

 

[Henchmen21]

Except not even a little bit.

Except yes. JJ's crapfest of a movie is as much Star Trek as '98 Godzilla is to Godzilla. Or Hallie Barrie Catwoman is to that character.

From now on, Star Trek will be a franchise written by idiots.

You can't kill what's already dead.

Okay that was harsh and I don't really like the direction either but ST wasn't exactly doing well.

Don't disagree but I'd rather ST die than be relegated to what it is now.

As much as I love star trek, sometimes it's better to pull the plug.