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The GOP has lost the race for NC Governor, is now trying to steal it

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Tripon

Member
No, NC Republicans can’t just declare Pat McCrory a winner without courts having a say

Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/op...r-st-onge/article116348258.html#storylink=cpy


As for whether the legislature’s decision can be reviewed by courts, here’s what that N.C. statute actually says: “The decision of the General Assembly in determining the contest of the election pursuant to this section may not be reviewed by the General Court of Justice.”

While that might mean that N.C. courts can’t question such a decision, federal courts definitely can. So says Richard Hasen, election law expert and professor at the University of California-Irvine.

Hasen told me Monday night that if lawmakers declare McCrory the winner: “It could certainly be reviewable by a federal court regardless of what the legislature says.” He went into some detail a few moments later on his election law blog. It’s worth a read, but to summarize: If there’s clear evidence that Cooper got more votes, and there’s no plausible argument for fraud, then Cooper could claim both a Due Process and Equal Protection Clause violation if the race were handed to McCrory. There’s precedent for courts taking such a look.

Says Hasen: “A brazen power grab without a plausible basis for overturning the results of a democratically conducted election? I expect the federal courts would take a very close look at such a thing.”

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Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/op...r-st-onge/article116348258.html#storylink=cpy
 

Jarmel

Banned
Annnnnd now you know why they blatantly stole Obama's final SC pick.

It doesn't matter, even the hardcore Constitutionalists on the SC wouldn't agree with this. If it goes to federal court, it's done.

This isn't a 4-4 decision type of event.
 

Eidan

Member
Annnnnd now you know why they blatantly stole Obama's final SC pick.

I'd assume this would reach SCOTUS before Trump's nominee is confirmed and on the bench. Besides, this would be so brazenly partisan that I wouldn't be surprised if Roberts or Kennedy join the progressive justices in opposition.
 

Fox Mulder

Member
NC is the GOP model folks.

The just give them a chance, fair elections, honor the results stuff is just bullshit.

They will lie, cheat, and steal the whole country if they could. Dems just roll over and don't want to offend anyone.
 
It doesn't matter, even the hardcore Constitutionalists on the SC wouldn't agree with this. If it goes to federal court, it's done.

This isn't a 4-4 decision type of event.

People need to realize that the fight between conservatives and liberals on the Supreme court level isn't necessarily about Republican vs. Democratic ideals. It's about whether the Constitution is a malleable document that the court can use to shape new laws when the situation arises or whether it's a rigid document where if it doesn't explicitly say something, then the law just doesn't exist and needs to be explicitly created. Liberals generally fall on the malleable side and will extend the constitution and other laws to situations where it wasn't explicitly stated (like extending the rights of marriage to gay people), conservatives tend to fall on the side of rigidity (they would say that the constitution says nothing about gay people, and that if you wanted to give gay people the right to marry you have to explicitly create a law allowing that).

Edit: And this would be a situation where even though it's Republicans trying to make this move, the move clearly has laws in place against it, so even conservative Supreme Court justices would have a hard time arguing that the law isn't being broken here.
 

Eidan

Member
People need to realize that the fight between conservatives and liberals on the Supreme court level isn't necessarily about Republican vs. Democratic ideals. It's about whether the Constitution is a malleable document that the court can use to shape new laws when the situation arises or whether it's a rigid document where if it doesn't explicitly say something, then the law just doesn't exist and needs to be explicitly created. Liberals generally fall on the malleable side and will extend the constitution and other laws to situations where it wasn't explicitly stated (like extending the rights of marriage to gay people), conservatives tend to fall on the side of rigidity (they would say that the constitution says nothing about gay people, and that if you wanted to give gay people the right to marry you have to explicitly create a law allowing that).

Edit: And this would be a situation where even though it's Republicans trying to make this move, the move clearly has laws in place against it, so even conservative Supreme Court justices would have a hard time arguing that the law isn't being broken here.

The truth is that conservative justices are all about judicial activism, as long as it's convenient to pushing decisions that fit their worldview. Scalia is a prime example.
 

Mobile Suit Gooch

Grundle: The Awakening
You aint shit, Pat.

15179131_544162642438883_4758558277990959619_n.jpg
 

Phreaker

Member
Can a recount request be denied / is there any expectation it would be denied?

Only if somehow Cooper can get the lead by 10k votes when the results are certified. Either way, a recount isn't going to make the count different enough for him to win, just cost us more money. He seems to be just dragging it out. What a dirtbag. Really makes him look even worse, if that were possible.
 

JoeBoy101

Member
What you have to understand is that McCroy has the road to getting the governorship through the legislature. Its clear sailing, the lights are green, and everything is good to go... except the fucker ain't got no gas for his car. In order to pull off a power grab this brazen, he needs a LOT more cover. And the complaints are not nearly enough. He's hoping that a recount will give some issues with the voting, enough for him to make a backable claim of fraud/malfeasance/error to take it to the assembly.

I'm mean sure, they could go ahead and just immediately go to the legislature, but it will never hold up to scrutiny/federal courts. He HAS to get something to push this on through and, so far at least, Twinkletoes doesn't have anything.

I will say though, if the legislature does push through with the vote and hand it to McCrory, then keep an eye on the TV Gaf. Because my fat ass will be out there protesting and possibly getting arrested. Something I never thought I would do, but will decidely over this piece of shit.

Blader said:
Can a recount request be denied / is there any expectation it would be denied?

As I said, McCrory is looking for justification. Denying a recount would actually help his case because he could say he's being stonewalled from checking the voting totals. Besides, everytime the votes are counted again, Roy gets more votes. I hope they go ahead with a recount, as it might get Roy over 10K. 10K doesn't actually mean anything magical, but from a practical standpoint, the totals separating them going from 4 to 5 digits would deflate his support somewhat.
 

FStubbs

Member
If the GOP ever wants to get elected again there is plenty they have to do for us. Whether they like it or not the working class gop have just as much to gain or lose as the working class dems and if the gop fucks it up it can lead to them losing ground decisively in two-four years.



Oh god I forgot about that.

Not likely. As long as the GOP keeps their gerrymandered districts and runs on hate and racism they're looking pretty good. Not many GOP seats are up in 2018 and they're only one state house away from being able to force constitutional amendments through.
 

Phreaker

Member
I will say though, if the legislature does push through with the vote and hand it to McCrory, then keep an eye on the TV Gaf. Because my fat ass will be out there protesting and possibly getting arrested. Something I never thought I would do, but will decidely over this piece of shit.

You and me both. I saw protestors parked a U-Haul and a bunch of boxes outside the Governor's Mansion tonight. lol
 

Breads

Banned
Not likely. As long as the GOP keeps their gerrymandered districts and runs on hate and racism they're looking pretty good. Not many GOP seats are up in 2018 and they're only one state house away from being able to force constitutional amendments through.

You can add me to the group of people that thought seats were up every 2 years. I was wondering how Ted Cruz could have possibly won in 2016 until I got the bad news. I blame public education.

In doing that I saw that there were 23 seats up for dems and 8 up for gop. Hope is dwindling for progress to resume in 2 years.
 

Blader

Member
Depending on a Trump backlash and how conservative Dems like Tester, Manchin, Heitkamp, etc. navigate the next couple years, I don't know that the 2018 map would be too bad. And there might be one or two potential pickup opportunities.

Remember this year's Senate map was supposed to terrible for the GOP and they came out with a majority. This shit changes in an instant.

I also think the Dems could stand to gain a number of seats in the House. Not sure where the competitive races will be in 2018, but winning a little over 20 will put them in the majority -- a pretty tall order, and it's shitty that they could only pick up about 6 seats this year (along with every other shitty thing that happened), but not totally impossible. And I think there are even more opportunities in governor's and state lawmaker races, which is arguably even more important than taking back Congress. Governors and state legislatures will control redistricting after the 2020 census and shape the makeup of the House for the next decade.
 
Depending on a Trump backlash and how conservative Dems like Tester, Manchin, Heitkamp, etc. navigate the next couple years, I don't know that the 2018 map would be too bad. And there might be one or two potential pickup opportunities.

Remember this year's Senate map was supposed to terrible for the GOP and they came out with a majority. This shit changes in an instant.

I also think the Dems could stand to gain a number of seats in the House. Not sure where the competitive races will be in 2018, but winning a little over 20 will put them in the majority -- a pretty tall order, and it's shitty that they could only pick up about 6 seats this year (along with every other shitty thing that happened), but not totally impossible. And I think there are even more opportunities in governor's and state lawmaker races, which is arguably even more important than taking back Congress. Governors and state legislatures will control redistricting after the 2020 census and shape the makeup of the House for the next decade.

It was a bad year for Republicans in the Senate, they actually lost 2 seats this year (New Hampshire and Illinois, to be specific). Dems just needed to pick up 4 to get to 50/50 (which would have been the majority if Hillary won).
 
I will say though, if the legislature does push through with the vote and hand it to McCrory, then keep an eye on the TV Gaf. Because my fat ass will be out there protesting and possibly getting arrested. Something I never thought I would do, but will decidely over this piece of shit.

The entire city of Durham marches on Raleigh if this happens. We'll literally walk right down I-40.

But it won't because there's no federal court that would ever allow that to come to pass, much less an appeals court (which would shield SCOTUS).
 

JoeBoy101

Member
The entire city of Durham marches on Raleigh if this happens. We'll literally walk right down I-40.

But it won't because there's no federal court that would ever allow that to come to pass, much less an appeals court (which would shield SCOTUS).

I feel about the same way on this. The vote count is simply too high to let the legislature override the election results. Still, Trump got elected so what the fuck do I know? Anything's possible.
 

Baron Aloha

A Shining Example
You know, for as shitty as republicans are, you have to admire their tenacity and willingness to do/try anything to win and/or pass their agenda. Democrats could use some of that.
 

JoeBoy101

Member
When do we get the final answer?

Not sure when, but if Durham does its recount and can't get the vote difference under 10K, its over for McCrory. Assuming he doesn't try to go full nuclear and try to have the legislature rule him the winner due to fraud, but over 10K votes, and after a recount, will make that rather unfeasible.

Frankly, I think he's giving up on the Governor's seat, and is trying to keep his future political life going. Because him dropping this election will really stick a fork in him.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Now that it's over, the NC GOP has a Plan B: handicap the incoming governor by empowering the legislature to block all his appointees and end his ability to have a role in election boards.

After calling a surprise special session, Republican lawmakers who control the General Assembly introduced measures to end the governor’s control over election boards, to require State Senate approval of the new governor’s cabinet members and to strip his power to appoint University of North Carolina trustees.

Republicans also proposed to substantially cut the number of state employees who serve at the governor’s pleasure, giving Civil Service protections to hundreds of managers in state agencies who have executed the priorities of Gov. Pat McCrory, a Republican.

If the measures pass the legislature, where Republicans hold large majorities in both chambers, and Mr. McCrory signs off, they would significantly hamstring the new governor, Roy Cooper, who takes office in January. Mr. McCrory conceded the race last week after a nearly monthlong challenge of the vote, a hard-fought race that followed four years in which unified Republican control of state government brought a wave of restrictions on voting access, abortion and gay rights.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/14/us/politics/north-carolina-governor-roy-cooper-republicans.html
 
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