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The High-end VR Discussion Thread (HTC Vive, Oculus Rift, Playstation VR)

Hm, thanks, maybe I will try playing it some more. I'll have to rely on my keyboard and voice attack a lot too, because I got a pretty entry level hotas (there's maybe only 12 buttons on it).

12 buttons is fine because you'll probably set one to ALT and another to CTRL. Suddenly 12 buttons becomes ~48 (In most HOTAS cases you have have something set to Button 1, ALT + B1, CTRL + B1, and CTRL + ALT + B1). You have a lot of configuring ahead good sir. And I really do recommend that head start. Get that HOTAS set up just like you decide you want it and get used to it.

Oh and get Voice Attack configured too. If you haven't used it before, it's completely customizable. You can specify what buttons are pressed, what phrases you want it to recognize, set up macros, etc.

If you want a free voice pack, I recommend KICS.

Are The Gallery, Unseen Diplomacy and Budget Cuts actually going to be released at launch? If so, that definitely improves the lineup greatly in my eyes.

I've no idea, sir. I reckon we'll find out sometime this week though.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
True, the room scale is really what's sold me thus far on the Vive, and the fact that they've prioritized motion controls. I'm also a huge fan of their tracking methodology from an engineering standpoint. That said, the Oculus touch looks pretty compelling, but there's not enough info for me to consider the Rift currently. The only concern I have with the Vive currently is that I'll need to spend more money than I'm comfortable paying right out. The PSVR price point is pretty attractive.

But man I just want to put this computer to good use lol.

buy a vive.


can vive support multiple sets of lighthouses? can you even buy replacement lighthouses?
if i run a long HDMI and USB extender to my living room, I would have more room to move around. but it would be convenient to have separate sets of lighthouses permanently installed to save time.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Let's talk about the real-world practicalities of VR setups. I wanted to make a separate thread for this but it should fit in well here. (It's mostly an exercise to contain our hype)


[*]Getting a large enough hole (or multiple ones) in a 30+ cm wall to route USB3, USB2 (for the auxilliary KB/M) and displayport cables through.

i did this for ethernet between two walls with stairs inbetween. so two brick walls with plasterboard covering and a 60cm gap in the middle. it wasnt fun and the end result isn't pretty. ideally you'd drill four corners of a square and chisel out between to make a square hole, and put a blanking plate over it for neatness.


personally i think you should live with a floor cable for a while to see how you get on with it
 
Ooh, thank you for this information. I hope there's a really good amount of overlap across the platforms.

There will be. I mean, it's PC. Most games will be available for both and those that are not will be made compatible by the PC community's talented and motivated members. TBQH, I almost expect someone to have made EVE Valkyrie Vive-compatible by April 5.

Just get the one that looks best to you. I don't think anyone will be disappointed in their choice in the long run.
 

kinggroin

Banned
Let's talk about the real-world practicalities of VR setups. I wanted to make a separate thread for this but it should fit in well here. (It's mostly an exercise to contain our hype)

Here's my current plan:
plan1grdk.png


The difficulties and open questions are:
  1. Getting a large enough hole (or multiple ones) in a 30+ cm wall to route USB3, USB2 (for the auxilliary KB/M) and displayport cables through.
  2. Whether to use the upper ~30 cm space (marked with ?), taking into account the obstacle, or stick to a rectangle for easier handling but miss out on it.
  3. Whether to and how to ceiling mount the HMD cable.

For 1), the solution is simply a really large and powerful drill, and the conviction to use it :p

For 2) I'll probably try both and see what works best. From what I can see, there is only one upcoming room-scale game which requires a 3x3m area, most are happy with less than that (often a lot less, e.g. 2.5x1.5). But more is always better, also to simply go exploring around just a bit in a more direct VR "port" like The Witness before having to use a controller.

For 3), I'm quite sure that I do want to mount the cable somehow, but I don't have a solid plan yet. The current idea I favor is to use a retractable dog leash to hold up (and, if required, lower with little resistance) the cable. Something like this:

Mounted on the ceiling. The advantage of this is that they come in all sorts of resistances (for different sizes of dogs) so it should be possible to find one with just enough spring to hold up the cable, but which easily lowers it when required.

Does anyone have any good ideas for cable management?

This is pretty much my setup exactly. I already have a hole cut out in the wall that separates the two rooms, and plan to pipe the USB cables through it to the PC.

PC is in the living room. The Vive will be used in the projector room (with the connecting USB cable removed from the headset and coiled under the futon when not being used)

The USB cables should be long enough to make this work for me.

The lighthouses just need power, correct? Are they also USB interface? If so, that could be a potential challenge.


Sure this isn't going to be a very glamorous setup, but it'll work and remain mostly unsightly. Eventually I'll track the wire up through the wall itself and out the ceiling B-)
 

Mindlog

Member
Oh for ED? You better get that HOTAS configured right now, no bullshit. It will take you two weeks to get used to learn how to fly (if new) and to get comfortable with where all your buttons are. It's important because once you put that HMD on you won't be able to see your HOTAS anymore. I think I actively use about 85 buttons on my HOTAS for ED and I'm pretty sure it took me at least the first 2 weeks to commit everything to memory well enough to be able to recall anything under pressure.

I do recommend anyone planning to jump into ED to get comfy sooner rather than later. It's not simulator-grade levels of complexity but there's fair amount of basic mechanics to learn, much more than 99% of games out there. If the game had a printed manual it'd be one of the bigger ones to be sure.
Great advice.
Another reason I want room-scale/local tracking in seated games. Would be great to see my hands and legs in-game working controls that are spatially correct to real world counterparts.
Does anyone have any good ideas for cable management?
I've gone through walls to set up home networks. Nothing too tricky most of the time. I actually glued Cat 5 against a door frame on its way to the attic once for simplicity's sake. It was hard to notice since it was colored to match the well :]

However, for a VR room I would consider going with a standard concealer after the hole.
Something along those lines can be made to look good and most importantly you can easily swap or add cables should something change in the future. I had slightly misread your plans and this is probably what you are going with if you go the ceiling route. I would cut from PC to CB area and put a box there. From there I would put edging up the corner and then all around the ceiling to make it look nice.

Thinking on it I just figured out a potentially large issue for when I decide to go with room scale tracking. Every single one of my available rooms has a ceiling fan. That would probably have to come down.
 

Athreous

Member
Since I already own a PS4, in terms of immersion and quality, should I get a PSVR?

I read that Oculos and HTC VRs are great because they use the power of your PC, so as long as you got a very good rig, you are fine with FPS and latency... but, what about the PS4?

Will games like Battefront, FFXIV, Ace Combat, etc... suffer any kind of downgrade in order to run with PSRV?
 

Nzyme32

Member
Portal Stories: VR (ie the mod - Portal Stories: Mel) just got announced

We're very happy to officially announce "Portal Stories: VR"!
It brings you a whole new way to experience the beginning of the award winning Portal 2 modification Portal Stories: Mel.

Powered by Unreal Engine 4, Portal Stories: VR will allow you to see and experience the full scale of the Aperture Science facility during its heydays!
Besides the familiar content there's also a lot of new stuff: new music, voice lines, effects and a new area.

Portal Stories: VR will be available early April for Free on Steam.
An HTC Vive Headset is required in order to play.

More information will be available soon.
 

Tumalu

Member
Don't know if this has been mentioned, but it appears that PSVR does have a screen with higher pixel density at the center and lower on the edges.



http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/268245/Heres_what_Sony_wants_devs_to_know_about_making_PlayStation_VR_games.php

All of the major headsets effectively do this. It's a side effect of the fisheye distortion caused by the lenses which crowds more pixels together near the center of the field of view. I don't think the pixel density varies across the physical screen though - it's just due to the optics.
 
Since I already own a PS4, in terms of immersion and quality, should I get a PSVR?

I read that Oculos and HTC VRs are great because they use the power of your PC, so as long as you got a very good rig, you are fine with FPS and latency... but, what about the PS4?

Will games like Battefront, FFXIV, Ace Combat, etc... suffer any kind of downgrade in order to run with PSRV?
Short answer: you can't play those games with PSVR, a game has to be written specifically for PSVR for it to work in VR.

Long answer: You *can* play any PS4 game on a PSVR, but it won't be VR but the 2D game on a 2D virtual screen. When playing games that way, there will be a downgrade, because the PSVR screen resolution is half 1080p.
 
The GDC impressions of the Rift are so strange.

Some outlets say it still causes nausea and you might get sick and some say they didnt feel anything even after playing games for 4-5 hours with it.
 

artsi

Member
Jason Rubin Breaks Down Oculus Studios’ View On Exclusive Content: “We’re a producer, not a publisher”

Interesting interview about Oculus exclusivity views.

“Oculus Studios’ mission is to make sure enough good titles are coming to the Rift. If at some point in the future enough good titles are coming to the Rift without Oculus Studios – I don’t know. I don’t know if we’re needed at that point. The goal of oculus studios is not to become a publisher that’s why we don’t call ourselves a publisher that’s why we call ourselves a producer.”
 
The GDC impressions of the Rift are so strange.

Some outlets say it still causes nausea and you might get sick and some say they didnt feel anything even after playing games for 4-5 hours with it.

Depends on the person and the particular experience. None of this is really surprising me. Critiquing VR is going to be a roller coaster ride for the next little while. I am going to take every review with a grain of salt until I have had a good opportunity to sit down with software and figure out what works in VR and what doesn't.
 
I thought the Budget Cuts developer said he would try but it wouldn't function the same if it does release?
If I remember right, he said it depended on how Oculus advertised the Touch - if they advertised the Touch's opposing-corner camera setup they would support the same room-scale on Rift as is on Vive, but if not they would change it. I could be mixing up developers, though - I just remember that some developer said that.
 

Wallach

Member
All of the major headsets effectively do this. It's a side effect of the fisheye distortion caused by the lenses which crowds more pixels together near the center of the field of view. I don't think the pixel density varies across the physical screen though - it's just due to the optics.

Yeah, that was my interpretation of what was said there too. Mainly because it would result in a really weird shaped physical screen otherwise. Given that you have one screen handling both eyes in the PSVR, you don't really have one "center" of the screen for VR purposes.
 

Cartman86

Banned
Let's talk about the real-world practicalities of VR setups. I wanted to make a separate thread for this but it should fit in well here. (It's mostly an exercise to contain our hype)

Here's my current plan:
plan1grdk.png


The difficulties and open questions are:
  1. Getting a large enough hole (or multiple ones) in a 30+ cm wall to route USB3, USB2 (for the auxilliary KB/M) and displayport cables through.
  2. Whether to use the upper ~30 cm space (marked with ?), taking into account the obstacle, or stick to a rectangle for easier handling but miss out on it.
  3. Whether to and how to ceiling mount the HMD cable.

For 1), the solution is simply a really large and powerful drill, and the conviction to use it :p

For 2) I'll probably try both and see what works best. From what I can see, there is only one upcoming room-scale game which requires a 3x3m area, most are happy with less than that (often a lot less, e.g. 2.5x1.5). But more is always better, also to simply go exploring around just a bit in a more direct VR "port" like The Witness before having to use a controller.

For 3), I'm quite sure that I do want to mount the cable somehow, but I don't have a solid plan yet. The current idea I favor is to use a retractable dog leash to hold up (and, if required, lower with little resistance) the cable. Something like this:

Mounted on the ceiling. The advantage of this is that they come in all sorts of resistances (for different sizes of dogs) so it should be possible to find one with just enough spring to hold up the cable, but which easily lowers it when required.

Does anyone have any good ideas for cable management?

Is it even possible to create a hanging system that can have enough slack to allow the user to walk around, lower when they crouch or lay down, stay behind their back so it doesn't get in the way of swinging and aiming hands? My understanding is that this is very difficult without a software and rails solution. I pretty much gave up after a lot of thought.
 

Blanquito

Member
All of the major headsets effectively do this. It's a side effect of the fisheye distortion caused by the lenses which crowds more pixels together near the center of the field of view. I don't think the pixel density varies across the physical screen though - it's just due to the optics.

Ah, that's probably true. When I first read the quote I was thinking that he was talking about the physical screen, but I think you're right now that you mention that.
 
I got the Gear VR today and man this has so much potential.

For those who have tried both the Gear VR and one of the expensive sets, how much difference is there in image quality?
 

Zalusithix

Member
Does anyone have any good ideas for cable management?
How much money can we spend on this? =P

Seriously, ever since the idea came to me this morning, the concept of a ceiling suspended cable butler has me thinking it'd be the solution to room scale VR with an extremely high budget.

Take a couple rails and run them parallel along the ceiling of the room. Mount a rail perpendicular to them attached to gantries on those rails. Attach another gantry to that rail. Have those gantries powered by some appropriately sized NEMA motors, timing belts and large timing pulleys. Essentially a room scale 3D printer without a Z axis. Accuracy doesn't matter in this case. As long as it can move within a target inch or so it's fine. Speed on the other hand is of the essence as it would have to zip along quickly enough to always keep pace with human movement.

Now take a spring loaded pole and attach it to the last gantry. It should come down to a bit above waist level. The cables should run down that pole and from there go to the user with a few feet of slack. Then tap into the positional measurements of the VR tracking on the PC side and drive the gantries so the pole is always at least a couple feet directly behind the user.

You'd end up with a solution that would keep the cord out of your way no matter where you went or what you did. Its only limitation would be constant turning in the same direction due to the cable having limits on twisting. For safety's sake, you'd throw a limit switch against the pole. If the pole gets enough tension to override the spring keeping it plum, it'll trip the limit switch and disengage all power to the motors. That will prevent the contraption from potentially ripping your headset off due to some bug. Probably should have a physical break point in the cable as well just to be on the safe side.

Anybody win the lottery lately?

For a more traditional hang from the ceiling center bit, perhaps think about a vest that has a springy lead coming out the backside by a foot or so. Feed the cable from the headset down first to the prong end, and then up to the ceiling restraint. This will keep the cable behind you rather than directly above you in most situations. Thus avoiding the potential of hitting the cable with your arms/hands when doing overhead gestures.
 

SomTervo

Member
Curious about whether it's worth me getting a Vive. I have a high-end, but not highest-end rig.

- i5 4690k (3.5Ghz x4 @ factory)
- 16GB RAM
- GTX 960

Far as i can tell, i'm just below spec on the CPU and the graphics.

The sensible choice is to wait until later this year, when I can afford a new i7 CPU and a 980ti, as well as a Vive (which will probably have come down in price, too, if only a little).

But me and my gf are champing at the bit for VR, and can afford a Vive right now.

What should we do?

(FYI we also have a very large main living space which can easily handle the Vive's area requirements.)
 

artsi

Member
The GDC impressions of the Rift are so strange.

Some outlets say it still causes nausea and you might get sick and some say they didnt feel anything even after playing games for 4-5 hours with it.

Yeah, Anandtech had some positive things to say about tracking and comfort.

http://anandtech.com/show/10149/hands-on-with-the-retail-oculus-rift

As I’ve stated earlier, overall the hardware is not perfect: pixel density is plenty workable, but clearly there is room for improvement. However perhaps more importantly, in my hands-on time with the Rift I feel that Oculus has nailed the head tracking and latency aspects. There’s no disconnect that I could feel between my motions and what was rendered, and that makes the entire experience very convincing and enjoyable, not to mention motion sickness-free.

I would say that the nausea issue is very subjective, some people might not be able to even wear the HMD, while some can do VR somersaults without problems.
 

taoofjord

Member
Anyone know how the lighthouse boxes work once set up? Can you adjust (decrease) the size of your space as needed through the Steam VR software without having to move the boxes? Also, where does the corner of the area begin... assuming it's ceiling mounted and placed at the recommended 45 degree angle would the area start on the ground directly below the box?
 

Monger

Member
If I remember right, he said it depended on how Oculus advertised the Touch - if they advertised the Touch's opposing-corner camera setup they would support the same room-scale on Rift as is on Vive, but if not they would change it. I could be mixing up developers, though - I just remember that some developer said that.

That was him. He said a couple weeks back that he couldn't talk about it, but publicly the line to developers is the same and it doesn't make sense to support it if Oculus isn't. During the GDC launch titles event, the line from Nate Mitchell in the Tested interview I posted earlier was that they weren't aiming for walking around and putting in a system to keep you from bumping into walls and that the focus was standing 360 experiences in a smaller space. I guess they could change, but they've been pretty consistent on that front. The job simulator that was playing showed the front facing version as well.
 

Nafai1123

Banned
I got the Gear VR today and man this has so much potential.

For those who have tried both the Gear VR and one of the expensive sets, how much difference is there in image quality?

I've tried GearVR and PSVR and IQ was very similar. I wasn't able to do a back-to-back comparison but I couldn't really notice much of a difference TBH. GearVR is similar in resolution (even higher if you've got a S7) compared to these high-end sets, but obviously with much more grunt powering them.
 
Is there any worth in having an off topic VR thread? The focus on these devices is pretty much all gaming but I would love to see more non-gaming applications for the device. Gaming is really only half the reason I am investing in VR.
 

kinggroin

Banned
Is there any worth in having an off topic VR thread? The focus on these devices is pretty much all gaming but I would love to see more non-gaming applications for the device. Gaming is really only half the reason I am investing in VR.

Porn threads aren't allowed on GAF I don't think
 
Curious about whether it's worth me getting a Vive. I have a high-end, but not highest-end rig.

- i5 4690k (3.5Ghz x4 @ factory)
- 16GB RAM
- GTX 960

Far as i can tell, i'm just below spec on the CPU and the graphics.

The sensible choice is to wait until later this year, when I can afford a new i7 CPU and a 980ti, as well as a Vive (which will probably have come down in price, too, if only a little).

But me and my gf are champing at the bit for VR, and can afford a Vive right now.

What should we do?

(FYI we also have a very large main living space which can easily handle the Vive's area requirements.)

Your CPU is fine, it's above spec for both the Rift and Vive. That video card is your weak point. Have you run the Steam VR performance test?
 

pj

Banned
Anyone know how the lighthouse boxes work once set up? Can you adjust (decrease) the size of your space as needed through the Steam VR software without having to move the boxes? Also, where does the corner of the area begin... assuming it's ceiling mounted and placed at the recommended 45 degree angle would the area start on the ground directly below the box?

The area is defined by you with the touch controllers. You can have the lighthouses in a 15x15 room but define a 6x6 space if you want.
 

taoofjord

Member
The area is defined by you with the touch controllers. You can have the lighthouses in a 15x15 room but define a 6x6 space if you want.

Defined in what way? What I mean is that the demos I tried had a grid/boundary box you could see when you got to the edge of your walkable space. Can you set that wall yourself? The reason being that I want to make as large a space as possible with the boxes but I might not always be able to move the couch out of the way to use it all... so when I can't move the couch I want to make sure I set a smaller boundary box so I don't walk into it.
 

Zalusithix

Member
Defined in what way? What I mean is that the demos I tried had a grid/boundary box you could see when you got to the edge of your walkable space. Can you set that wall yourself? The reason being that I want to make as large a space as possible with the boxes but I might not always be able to move the couch out of the way to use it all... so when I can't move the couch I want to make sure I set a smaller boundary box so I don't walk into it.

Yes, the boundary is set by you independently of the area covered by the lighthouses.
 

Cartman86

Banned
Anyone know how the lighthouse boxes work once set up? Can you adjust (decrease) the size of your space as needed through the Steam VR software without having to move the boxes? Also, where does the corner of the area begin... assuming it's ceiling mounted and placed at the recommended 45 degree angle would the area start on the ground directly below the box?

Yes you can perform the play space setup whenever you want. Last time I checked in Steam it looked there were saved presets of some sort so you can move from room scale to seated with different bounds. You draw your bounds with the controllers so it can be wherever you want (placed in four corners, or free form draw whatever you want) In terms of of what the lighthouses can do yes it looks down directly to the floor below it.
 

cakefoo

Member
Defined in what way? What I mean is that the demos I tried had a grid/boundary box you could see when you got to the edge of your walkable space. Can you set that wall yourself? The reason being that I want to make as large a space as possible with the boxes but I might not always be able to move the couch out of the way to use it all... so when I can't move the couch I want to make sure I set a smaller boundary box so I don't walk into it.
Yes, you define the play area by going into the SteamVR / Chaperone settings and taking the controller around the 4 corners of your play space.
 

Ionic

Member
Defined in what way? What I mean is that the demos I tried had a grid/boundary box you could see when you got to the edge of your walkable space. Can you set that wall yourself? The reason being that I want to make as large a space as possible with the boxes but I might not always be able to move the couch out of the way to use it all... so when I can't move the couch I want to make sure I set a smaller boundary box so I don't walk into it.

I can't find an animation of it. But you take a controller and walk it along the perimeter of the area you wish to play in then the Vive will define the largest possible rectangle it can fit in that area and call that the play space.
 

SomTervo

Member
Your CPU is fine, it's above spec for both the Rift and Vive. That video card is your weak point. Have you run the Steam VR performance test?

Thanks pal. And thank god - the easiest bit to swap out!

I'll double check i've got the right CPU in mind tomorrow. May have misremembered which one i have.

No, i haven't tried the test. Forgot it existed. Will give it a shot tomorrow morning!
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Curious about whether it's worth me getting a Vive. I have a high-end, but not highest-end rig.

- i5 4690k (3.5Ghz x4 @ factory)
- 16GB RAM
- GTX 960

Far as i can tell, i'm just below spec on the CPU and the graphics.

The sensible choice is to wait until later this year, when I can afford a new i7 CPU and a 980ti, as well as a Vive (which will probably have come down in price, too, if only a little).

But me and my gf are champing at the bit for VR, and can afford a Vive right now.

What should we do?

(FYI we also have a very large main living space which can easily handle the Vive's area requirements.)

get a vive and a 980ti now. if you were going to get one in 6 months anyway, why not now?

and your CPU is fine
 
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