Don't you think that reddit is enough of a mess already with this Oculus launch, do you want to bring this here too?
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The High-end VR Discussion Thread (HTC Vive, Oculus Rift, Playstation VR)
- Thread starter Cartman86
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Don't you think that reddit is enough of a mess already with this Oculus launch, do you want to bring this here too?
Zalusithix
Member
Yeah, who cares how the Reddit faction wars are going. If there's new information available on Reddit, then by all means bring it up, but otherwise leave Reddit at Reddit.
Guardian Monkey
Member
What did they win? A trip? Free cookies for a month? I dont understand the point of the comment.
A platform-specific subreddit supporting the thing their subreddit is about is not valuable, relevant, or surprising information one way or another and is not going to require any basis in real-world events.
Iced_Eagle
Member
As the RoadToVR journalist pointed out what's most noticeable between all of the headsets is the shape. Vive's is more circular and Rift's is more rectangular. However, he said that he wouldn't bet any money because in practice it is simply too close to call.
And this. Holy shit are the Reddit VR subs full of vitriol and mud-slinging right now. I'm very happy that Gaf is in a much better state of affairs. As gamers we should be champions of VR. We can talk about positives and negatives without tearing the other headset apart.
But it won't necessarily apply equally to all headsets, depending on how they handle lens to eye distance. Simply measuring the actual lens from the same distance won't tell you what the perceived fov will be.
Surely we have had lots of anecdotal evidence saying they are fairly similar, to suggest at least some doubt on this one contrary view?
I'd been browsing the oculus Reddit to see when rifts were shipping but I might drop it and just use the oculus thread here for that
Well, it adds dynamic range. To fully simulate realistic lighting conditions, we'd need an order of magnitude higher brightness yet, but presumably every step on the way helps to some extent.
As someone pointed out in this thread just a short while ago, humans are utterly terrible at comparisons like this. If I have data on the one hand and human impressions on the other, I will always choose the data.
(Edit: note that I'm not saying the visual difference is necessarily as pronounced as the one measured at minimum distance. But I'd still rather extrapolate from that measurement than use personal anecdotes. Ideally, someone will do a measurement at a realistic minimum distance (8 mm?))
Reddit is a horrible, bottom of the barrel, shit show regardless of the topic. I'm not sure why anyone is surprised it's turned in to a fucking mess when people are talking about £600~ items.
Might of been posted already but Sony (un-named source) predicting 1 to 2 million psvr to be sold this calendar year
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/why-sony-delayed-playstation-vr-until-this-fall/1100-6436089/
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/why-sony-delayed-playstation-vr-until-this-fall/1100-6436089/
Hari Seldon
Member
That is bold considering the PS4.5 potential debacle. I know my preorder is basically entirely contingent on what is going to happen with that.
I must admit I'm looking forward to the PSVR. In regards to the PS4.5 (or whatever it's going to be called), here's what I envisage is going to happen.
1 - Sony reduces the PS4 by at least $100
2 - PS4.5 will then be $399
3 - Some kind of PSVR/4.5 bundle
This will win over a lot of people.
1 - Sony reduces the PS4 by at least $100
2 - PS4.5 will then be $399
3 - Some kind of PSVR/4.5 bundle
This will win over a lot of people.
Honestly I'm a little surprised by that. Yes, anecdotal evidence isn't perfect, but with enough samples you can get a decent view on things. But regardless of that, I don't understand why you would out so much weight behind a measurement that may be meaningless without more context like where people's eyes are likely to sit in relation to the lenses.
The best case would be to dismiss both sets of data as not robust enough to draw conclusions from
If you're going to call the guy a liar at least post a link, far as I can see this is the thread with the pictures you're talking about, where people accuse him of posting DK2 pics, which of course turned out to actually be CV1. People didn't believe him here because the lenses looked round but he had an explanation for that.
plagiarize
Banned
I do too, until I try the things myself, and then I don't care if the measurements are saying something different to what I perceive.
These measurements conclusively prove that for a camera pressed up against all the lenses, the widest FOV of the four headsets is found on the DK2, then the Vive, then the Gear VR, then the Rift. That's the data.
The information people are extrapolating from that, is that therefor the Vive has the best optics or whatever. That extrapolation is pretty meaningless.
Lets pretend the stereoscopic overlap is the same for a moment.
I've used the Gear VR with two phones. both had the same kind of displays at the same resolution. One had wider FOV, the other had less FOV, but better pixel density and less noticeable SDE. If you asked me which of these I preferred, I'd call it a wash, personally.
Here's another conclusion we can draw from these comparisons if indeed the stereoscopic overlap is the same. The Vive uses less pixels for what the player can actually see, *and* has inferior pixel density.
So which is better? I can't tell you. I've not used a Vive yet.
I can tell you that the DK2 offered a much better experience than the DK1 even with it's reduced FOV. I can tell you that the CV1 feels wider, however this is achieved. I am less conscious of the rectangle than I was on DK2.
Considering the decreased overlap between the two eyes on the DK2, I think this leads to it feeling wider even if one eye is indeed smaller. And that's pretty smart if you ask me. It's a way to increase the pixel density in the sweet spot without needing more pixels. I think every headset going forwards should mimic it.
Vyse The Legend
Member
Feels vs. Science: The great VR debate of 2016.
I have the same board. That "Intel(R) USB 3.0 eXtensible Host Controller" controls all the USB 3.0 ports you have on the motherboard through the "Generic USB Hub". One hub does four USB 3.0 on the back panel and the second hub does additional two on the motherboard if you want to connect two more to the front or back panel.
The USB issues you have sounds like the devices are not getting enough power. Are you using a non-powered USB hub? Like connecting a lot of devices through a USB hub to one of your motherboard's USB port.
edit: Looks like there are some freak out about the FOV on the CV1. Does anyone have a DK2 and CV1 to compare firsthand? How are the FoV between them?
plagiarize
Banned
I wouldn't call it science. It's more like perception vs extrapolation of data.
Welp I got my cancellation confirmation from Oculus. I personally felt rather disappointed with how the launch went and the giantbomb stream really pointed out to me how the experience with just a headset isn't really what I want.
I am thinking about going ahead with a Vive preorder now, as i'd like one sooner rather than later but I should probably wait til' the 5th for impressions. That being said, all the demo videos i've seen of Vive games seem quite unique and enjoyable in more ways than what I saw with the Oculus.
I am thinking about going ahead with a Vive preorder now, as i'd like one sooner rather than later but I should probably wait til' the 5th for impressions. That being said, all the demo videos i've seen of Vive games seem quite unique and enjoyable in more ways than what I saw with the Oculus.
Not to brag but this is sort of what I expected, just looking at the install base as well as the initial PS4 launch sales, all those same customers are very likely to be on board, plus some of the ones who have joined since launch. It's an exciting new platform and people are more and more becoming interested in VR. Something like 1-2 million would be a pretty great start and can give devs some more confidence in fully supporting VR knowing there will be a substantial enough market of people to sell to.
Plus VR, perhaps more than any other previous platform, has that lure of wanting to see everything there is, try every new experience. I think if games and apps are priced reasonably they could sell A LOT, a higher attach rate than is normal on a console where people just buy the same range of games they've always done in the past.
I know I for one will want to try everything even in genres I'm not interested in elsewhere, like table top RPG's or something.
whatever you do tho, dont leave it in the sun light with the lenses exposed, since that can be quite the firehazard
I went and submitted a ticket to cancel. The launch i'm mainly referring to is the giantbomb stream, but I took a look at impressions from other sites as well. I was interesed in EVE Valkyrie but after seeing that there isn't much to do beyond deathmatch scenarios and microtransactions are an integrated part of it I've lost interest in that exclusive. The other games didn't appeal all that much to me as well beyond the Airmech one and Project CARS; and I imagine both will be supported by the Vive. Elite Dangerous is a given; always been a fan of space games and i'm really excited to get back into that with VR.
I think the headset itself is fine, but I am not as enthused about the offerings they had and personally i'm feeling that without touch controls a large part of what would make the VR experience fun for me is lost. I do understand they have touch controls coming later on, but my feelings are that they would have had a much stronger launch had they waited to include touch controls instead of an Xbox controller.
metareferential
Member
Things you could have known well before the GB streaming, actually.
Especially the controls issue.
Nothing against you, mind you; I'm just baffled that one streaming (albeit long and popular) could mean so much (considering also that it wasn't a great show either).
I thought it was a pretty good showing of what the Oculus can offer you right now. It definitely seemed like the most honest VR stream I've seen in a long time. I expect the Vive stream to be similar in approach. Guys just playing games and giving honest impressions instead of being hypemen.
plagiarize
Banned
It's sure could. Like I said earlier, if Giant Bomb are blown away by rooms scale that will be saying a lot. If they aren't it won't be. They were totally unimpressed with the Wii and even more unimpressed by a kinect than most.
It wasn't solely the stream; I did read around and got some other impressions but I thought they did a great job of showing off what you can do right now. I still think EVE looks like a lot of fun, would really like to try Airmech and Project CARS, and Darknet looked quite unique and interesting. It's just that after watching a couple hours of them playing different games I realized there isn't much that makes me want to spend 600$ on a sit down VR experience. It made me realize that roomscale and touch will really be where the unique experiences are at. I won't feel all that "in" the game if i'm just sitting there with a controller.
Have they uhhhh not already done a ton of hands-on with room-scale VR?
well good thing that roomscale VR is nothing like the Wii or Kinect
Maiden Voyage
Gold™ Member
I think that, for most people, this is their first real look at what VR is and what OR has to offer. I was disappointed because it looked like they were playing games that could have easily been made on a monitor, controlled with a controller, with no need for an expensive headset.
1. CV1 has horizontal offset (areas not overlapping), creating a wider horizontal FOV than appears with a single eye.
2. Has IPD adjustment allowing the centers to actually best match the user eyes (a boon for someone like me who has a IPD 5mm more than the default 65mm)
3. Repeated perceptual claims from those that have used it that the FOV is similar to Vive, albeit of a different shape.
I think it's clear that there's no real problem with the actual FOV that you'll be seeing in the HMD, and that the photo of the single lens FOV is a sloppy rush to post new information resulting in significant misinformation - at best.
Don't worry about the FOV of any of the headsets. They are all within spitting distance of one another and all are fine.
plagiarize
Banned
I have no idea. Based on cakefoo's comment I presumed not. The way there were talking during the Rift marathon didn't make me think they'd had much VR experience but I don't closely follow them. I was only watching yesterday because I was home waiting for my Rift to arrive and I saw they were going through the launch line up.
This I know, obviously. My point is that *if* GB are blown away by the Vive that will mean a lot, because they tend not to be impressed by things involving moving about and motion controls if I'm remembering right from their Kinect and Wii videos. If they *aren't* blown away, I won't read anything into it other than 'GB still don't like moving around'. I mean they were complaining about having to fully turn their head to look behind themselves in a racing game, and wanted to know if you could make head turning exaggerated like with Track IR.
Hari Seldon
Member
So is the Vive expected to be the better seated experience as well? I simply don't have the space for room VR but I'm willing to shell out another $200 for a better seated experience.
Also can anyone point me to a solid Vive hands on video that is recent and good? Preferably one with a good comparison with the Rift.
Also can anyone point me to a solid Vive hands on video that is recent and good? Preferably one with a good comparison with the Rift.
plagiarize
Banned
Dunno about better but I see no reason why it wouldn't offer a comparative seated experience.
The seated experiences should be identical, although as of right now only vive will give you seated with motion controls.
For fair comparisons between the final rift and vive, it's probably best to wait a week for the consumer vive and all its launch content to be out. Giant bomb will probably do another all day stream. If you don't have a preorder by now, it won't hurt to wait a little while longer before deciding. You're not getting it until may or july anyway!
Iced_Eagle
Member
For Vive hands-on's I would just wait for the consumer version reviews and streams next week. That's when you're going to see the best comparisons using final consumer versions (Vive Pre is still technically a dev kit).
I don't know if Vive is necessarily going to be better at seated VR, but I also don't think it's necessarily going to be worse either. With the Vive you'll just need to make sure the sensors can properly see you and you mount them appropriately. Keep in mind you will need to set up both lighthouses in opposing corners as there are no tracking sensors on the back of the headset, unlike the Rift (which is why they can use 1 sensor and get 360 degree tracking on the headset). You can't just use one lighthouse if you want 360 degree head tracking.
The one advantage Rift has in this department right now is that it will simply have more games which support seated experiences out of the gate. Vive's pushing heavily into room scale and naturally most developers are optimizing towards that. AFAIK, games like Job Simulator, Hover Junkers and Budget Cuts won't support seated play at launch. Fantastic contraption does support seated scale ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdr-Jdpv53s ). Now, nothing will stop the games from working if you're seated, but as an example, in Hover Junkers you're expected to duck behind cover physically and that can be hard if you're already seated. Valve's experiences are also going to be mostly optimized towards room scale.
You'll likely see more games getting updated to use OpenVR over time though as well as a mix of games supporting both seated and standing play volumes, and I believe Elite: Dangerous supports the Vive so if you haven't ordered yet, just give it time to see how it all plays out.
If they haven't tried a Vive yet, is the official mission statement of Giant Bomb to be drunk on video and do stupid shit from the confines of an underground lair? Just curious.
That's probably their official mission statement regardless.
Maiden Voyage
Gold™ Member
They've tried a Vive but not on any sort of capacity regarding coverage for the site. As far as I am aware, they haven't given any real or deep impressions.
TheMadMan007
Member
I would have bought it on Steam. The devs say they are going to be able to give Oculus Home keys to the people who own the Steam version. They are just working on how to get the keys to people
They don't seem to have any Vive coverage, but here's what Jeff (and presumably the rest of the staff) thinks about roomscale + motion controls in VR: 1h12m56s if link redirect doesn't work
Before the GB stream there was this mantra about how Oculus has the best exclusives and more games at launch, plus the whole motion controls staff was rapidly dismissed with statements like how the racing and the space games are the best experiences in VR. Ignoring to mention the fact that they are very very nice, but not with a normal controller. The GB stream, by trying all of the games available, showed that there are actually only a handful of games that are actually above average and even for those playing them with a gamepad in VR is not the best experience.
Why did the GB stream mean so much? Because Oculus has avoided sending Rifts to streamers before launch and had all this secrecy around the hardware (and even the games) and this was the first chance of seeing everything in action.
Zepp Twofist
Member
The main thing about the GB stream wasn't as much their commentary or attitudes about the Rift, but rather to get an unfiltered view about how ill fitting controlling VR with a gamepad is. I haven't really seen that illustrated as thoroughly before (though I don't doubt that videos showing that is out there).
I think so too. They mentioned several times that certain games and actions would have felt more natural with motion controls. I am expecting them to be much more positive about 'motion controls + VR' with the vive, than they were with 'Xbox controller + rift' - but I do also expect them to be similarly lukewarm about the overall software lineup
Yes it is. But this is the case for all HMDs.
They were done at the minimum possible distance to measure the maximum possible FoV. As long as you understand what that means, no assumptions were being made.
Actually not really. The measurements show that the widest potential FoV is found on the Vive -- taking into account a stereo view, which people rightfully insist on.
The DK2 has a much higher resolution, higher framerate, low-persistence panel. And positional tracking. Of course it's a better experience than DK1. But that doesn't make its smaller FoV better.
As does the Vive.
Not necessarily the same for all HMDs though - each may have a different minimum distance to the lens, and each may have a different falloff in FoV as you move away from that minimum.
Well technically this is correct. But I think one look at reddit would show you people tend to shoot first and ask questions later. In cases like this it would have been very useful for the original reporter to have laid down the caveats to the testing they did to prevent the meltdowns that occured.
The reason is not at all baffling if you think about it.