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The Hobbit - Official Thread of Officially In Production

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W

WolfForager

Member
Glorfindel, the only elf to have killed a Balrog, die soon after and somehow come back to live sometime in the following few thousand years.

Tolkien really fluffed up with that one. When I read through the Silmarillion and LOTR again there a few years back this confused me no end.
 
M

maquiladora

Member
MPAA have seen and rated the film.

Steven Weintraub ‏@colliderfrosty

no surprise, rating board just gave THE HOBBIT a PG-13 for "extended sequences of intense fantasy action violence, and frightening images”
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All hope is lost for some dwarf nudity.
 
E

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
WolfForager said:
Glorfindel, the only elf to have killed a Balrog, die soon after and somehow come back to live sometime in the following few thousand years.

Tolkien really fluffed up with that one. When I read through the Silmarillion and LOTR again there a few years back this confused me no end.
Click to expand...
He was sent back to Middle-earth from the Halls of Mandos to aid in the struggle against Sauron.

He even befriended Gandalf while in Aman.

"It is indeed probable that he had in Valinor already become a friend and follower of Olórin [Gandalf]."
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And as Christopher Tolkien states in The Return of the Shadow:
'Also very notable is 'Glorfindel tells of his ancestry in Gondolin.' Years later, long after the publication of The Lord of the Rings, my father gave a great deal of thought to the matter of Glorfindel (...) He came to the conclusion that Glorfindel of Gondolin, who fell to his death in combat with a Balrog after the sack of the city (II. 192-4, IV. 145), and Glorfindel of Rivendell were one and the same: he was released from Mandos and returned to Middle-earth in the Second Age.'
Click to expand...
 
W

WolfForager

Member
Edmond Dantès;44851720 said:
He was sent back to Middle-earth from the Halls of Mandos to aid in the struggle against Sauron.

He even befriended Gandalf while in Aman.



And as Christopher Tolkien states in The Return of the Shadow:
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Well, it would appear I'm not as well brushed up on my Tolkien literature as I thought! Must get reading again soon! I'll put it on my 'to read' list right after 'read the Wheel of Time for the third time' :(
 
B

bananas

Banned
Edmond Dantès;44850634 said:
gandalf-laugh.gif
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Let's get this gif in 48 fps.
 
A

Ainaurdur

Member
Deadstar said:
So will there be an option to see this movie in 24 fps or will it be 48 in every theater? I'm scared...
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24fps in 2D or 3D, yes.

Loxley: Pretty sure all 2D will be 24fps. 48fps being 3D only.

I must also admit great shame in still thinking that there were two different elves over the ages with the name of Glorfindel. I still have never gotten the full set of The History of Middle Earth books.

---

Just pulled up this news article. Potential spoilers at link. Not really a review, but they do make a few review-like comments.
Not fond of the author's tone.
 
J

Jacob

Member
WolfForager said:
Glorfindel, the only elf to have killed a Balrog, die soon after and somehow come back to live sometime in the following few thousand years.

Tolkien really fluffed up with that one. When I read through the Silmarillion and LOTR again there a few years back this confused me no end.
Click to expand...

All Elves (with a few exceptions like Feanor) could be reincarnated though. Glorfindel was only an exceptional case in that he was permitted to return to Middle-earth. He's a complicated case in terms of his external literary history, though. ;)
 
M

maquiladora

Member
Ainaurdur said:
Just pulled up this news article. Potential spoilers at link. Not really a review, but they do make a few review-like comments.
Not fond of the author's tone.
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That's the closest thing to a media review so far. That Radagast comment made me wince, I hope he isn't that goofy. Everything else sounds fine.
 
E

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
Ainaurdur said:
24fps in 2D or 3D, yes.

Loxley: Pretty sure all 2D will be 24fps. 48fps being 3D only.

I must also admit great shame in still thinking that there were two different elves over the ages with the name of Glorfindel. I still have never gotten the full set of The History of Middle Earth books.


---

Just pulled up this news article. Potential spoilers at link. Not really a review, but they do make a few review-like comments.
Not fond of the author's tone.
Click to expand...
It is quite poignant that the two friends ended up 'dying' in a similar manner while defending those they love against the terror of the Balrogs and been sent back to aid the peoples of Middle-earth against Sauron.
 
S

Starsunder

Member
I always loved Glorfindel. But speaking of badass elves, didn't Feanor fight off like a ton of them at one point? Like, it took Gothmog to bring him down?
 
E

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
Starsunder said:
I always loved Glorfindel. But speaking of badass elves, didn't Feanor fight off like a ton of them at one point? Like, it took Gothmog to bring him down?
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Yes indeed, he truly was one of the two mightiest Elves in Tolkien's legendarium. Fingolfin was the other.

As stated in The Silmarillion:
For Fëanor was made the mightiest in all parts of body and mind, in valour, in endurance, in beauty, in understanding, in skill, in strength and in subtlety alike, of all the Children of Ilúvatar, and a bright flame was in him.
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He certainly had no fear of Melkor either:
"His words touched too deep, and awoke a fire more fierce than he designed; and Feanor looked upon Melkor with eyes that burned through his fair semblence and pierced the cloaks of his mind, percieving there his fierce lust for the Silmarils. Then hate overcame Feanor's fear, and he cursed Melkor and bade him be gone, saying: 'Get thee gone from my gate, thou jail-crow of Mandos!' And he shut the doors of his house in the face of the mightiest of all the dwellers in Ea.
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His death:
“he was fey, consumed by the flame of his own wrath. Thus it was that he drew far ahead of the van of his host; and seeing this the servants of Morgoth turned to bay, and there issued from Angband Balrogs to aid them. There upon the confines of Dor Daedeloth, the land of Morgoth, Fëanor was surrounded, with few friends about him. Long he fought on, and undismayed, though he was wrapped in fire and wounded with many wounds; but at the last he was smitten to the ground by Gothmog”
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So powerful was his spirit that his body burst into flames as he died.

I'd love to see his oath on the big screen:

“‘Be he foe or friend, be he foul or clean,
brood of Morgoth or bright Vala,
Elda or Maia or Aftercomer,
Man yet unborn upon Middle-earth,
neither law, nor love, nor league of swords,
dread nor danger, not Doom itself,
shall defend him from Fëanor, and Fëanor’s kin,
whoso hideth or hoardeth, or in hand taketh,
finding keepeth or afar casteth
a Silmaril. This swear we all:
death we will deal him ere Day’s ending,
woe unto world’s end! Our word hear thou,
Eru Allfather! To the everlasting
Darkness doom us if our deed faileth.
On the holy mountain hear in witness
and our vow remember, Manwë and Varda!’”
Click to expand...
 
A

Ape Gone Insane

Member
One of the sad things about his work, after his passing, was that there was never a chance to go beyond the prophecy of Dagor Dagorath and tell a story about it in The Silmarillion. Of course, it might have remained a prophecy but then who knows, he might have written a full proper account of it, and just from the prophecy, it sounded so unbelievably great.
 
S

Starsunder

Member
Edmond Dantès;44854690 said:
Yes indeed, he truly was one of the two mightiest Elves in Tolkien's legendarium. Fingolfin was the other.

As stated in The Silmarillion:


He certainly had no fear of Melkor either:

His death:
So powerful was his spirit that his body burst into flames as he died.

I'd love to see his oath on the big screen:
Click to expand...


Damn right. Feanors my dawg. When you slam the goddamn door in the face of who is essentially Satan, you know you're a bad motherfucker.

"Fear is for pussies"
-Feanor
 
M

maquiladora

Member
Edmond Dantès;44855262 said:
Kylie Klein had this to say:
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Well at least that shows a difference of opinion and not something genuinely on a Jar Jar level that would be universally hated.

I really dislike the review embargo. I realize they're doing it so they get maximum publicity from trade reviews and the exposure of the US premiere within the same week but it leaves a weird gap between now and Monday.
 
S

Solo

Member
Scullibundo said:
Dammit Solo, why you gotta make this hard for us. I really want to be bros, but then you go and put RotK on the same level as TTT and YA BROKE MY HEART.

RotK shits all over TTT and outside of the flawed ghost army bullshit is fantastic. FotR is my easy favourite, but Return of the King has plenty of moments just as poignant as any of those in FotR. The problem is that they're not as organically woven together.

But I'll be damned if I'm going to let you try and overlook moments like:

- The lighting of the beacons
- Theoden's charge with the Rohirrim
- Gandalf's 'Far Green Country'
- Sam's 'I can carry you' moment
- 'Aragorn's coronation/You Bow to No One'
- Frodo's melancholy 'How do you go back to the threads of an old life?' scene
- Grey Havens

TTT is the one I feel myself having to slog through. FotR is my clear favourite and I agree that the breaking of the fellowship is the best scene in the trilogy, but RotK is ridiculously rewarding in the emotion payoff department and features just as many poignant and powerful moments as FotR. It's just a little more clumsy about getting to them.
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I will say that Theoden's speech ("Death! Death! Deaaaaaaaaaathhhhhhhhhh!") is the biggest "fuck yeah!" moment of the series.
 
A

Advance_Alarm

Member
Starsunder said:
Damn right. Feanors my dawg. When you slam the goddamn door in the face of who is essentially Satan, you know you're a bad motherfucker.

"Fear is for pussies"
-Feanor
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His (half?)brother Fingolfin isn't a joke either. I think he fought Morgoth, stabbed him a few times and even cut off his foot, making the fucking dark lord walk around with a limp. That's some HNIC shit. Even Fingolfin's horse had a ballin name. Hopefully Mr. Dantes can elaborate.
 
L

lastplayed

Member
Boss just got back from Wellington with his impressions. He said it was pretty good, time went quick, 3D was fine, but he's a Tolkien purist and thought the script and plot could have been better, but overall not too bad.

Sounds good to me.
 
R

Raguel

Member
Scullibundo said:
She had ribbons in her hair. If I were to ever marry anyone, it would have been her. IT WOULD'VE BEEN HER!
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Christ, that scene got me and it still tugs at me. The scenes leading to that with the rest of the fellowship looking at Mt. Doom exploding and realizing that Frodo and Sam are still stuck there. Then Frodo and Sam realizing that they will prob die as the lava and smoke surrounds them. "I'm glad you're here with me, Sam. Here at the end of all things."
 
bengraven

bengraven

Member
Scullibundo said:
She had ribbons in her hair. If I were to ever marry anyone, it would have been her. IT WOULD'VE BEEN HER!
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I'm glad you're with me Sculli. At the beginning of all things.

Solo said:
I will say that Theoden's speech ("Death! Death! Deaaaaaaaaaathhhhhhhhhh!") is the biggest "fuck yeah!" moment of the series.
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Of all the scenes that are "re-purposed" for the film, that one pisses me off the most.

Took a despairing death scene and turned it into a heroic charge.
 
M

maquiladora

Member
lastplayed said:
Boss just got back from Wellington with his impressions. He said it was pretty good, time went quick, 3D was fine, but he's a Tolkien purist and thought the script and plot could have been better, but overall not too bad.

Sounds good to me.
Click to expand...

Is that similar to how he felt about the LOTR films too, being a purist?
 
K

King of the Potato People

Member
lastplayed said:
Boss just got back from Wellington with his impressions. He said it was pretty good, time went quick, 3D was fine, but he's a Tolkien purist and thought the script and plot could have been better, but overall not too bad.

Sounds good to me.
Click to expand...
I'm sure for some people "pretty good" would translate to "very disappointing" These films have a high caliber to follow.
 
C

Caladolen

Neo Member
Fingolfin was the baddest of the bunch IMO. It's also stated that he was the most valiant and most talented fighter of all the Children of Ilùvatar. You can't really beat challenging Morgoth to a duel outside the gates of Angbad. (conveniently seen in my avatar)
Starsunder said:
I always loved Glorfindel. But speaking of badass elves, didn't Feanor fight off like a ton of them at one point? Like, it took Gothmog to bring him down?
Click to expand...
He wounded him, but didn't cut off his foot. Morgoth was said to have walked with a limp after that day, though.
Advance_Alarm said:
His (half?)brother Fingolfin isn't a joke either. I think he fought Morgoth, stabbed him a few times and even cut off his foot, making the fucking dark lord walk around with a limp. That's some HNIC shit. Even Fingolfin's horse had a ballin name. Hopefully Mr. Dantes can elaborate.
Click to expand...

ALSO the deal about Glorfindel (pretty sure about this) was that Tolkien wrote about him twice, but all Elves are supposed to have different names, so he had to spice it up a bit. I think it works really well. Sent back to fight the dark. Same deal was with Gandalf, really.
 
M

maquiladora

Member
King of the Potato People said:
I'm sure for some people "pretty good" would translate to "very disappointing" These films have a high caliber to follow.
Click to expand...

Tolkien purists are generally far more critical of the LOTR films though. I remember people on one of the more purist-centric forums saying a lot less favorable things than 'pretty good' when LOTR came out back in the day.

Man, all this feels like going back in time. Its weird.
 
E

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
Advance_Alarm said:
His (half?)brother Fingolfin isn't a joke either. I think he fought Morgoth, stabbed him a few times and even cut off his foot, making the fucking dark lord walk around with a limp. That's some HNIC shit. Even Fingolfin's horse had a ballin name. Hopefully Mr. Dantes can elaborate.
Click to expand...
Yes, he was Finwë's second wife's son. Feanor was born of Finwë's first wife; Míriel.

Rochallor was his horse's name and his sword Ringil.

Any excuse to post artwork:

JJkcN.jpg


FcxIr.jpg


7TXuQ.jpg
 
S

Starsunder

Member
Edmond Dantès;44858581 said:
Yes, he was Finwë's second wife's son. Feanor was born of Finwë's first wife; Míriel.

Rochallor was his horse's name and his sword Ringil.

Any excuse to post artwork:

JJkcN.jpg


FcxIr.jpg


7TXuQ.jpg
Click to expand...

Shit is fucking awesome.

I would love to see that fight in a movie.
 
L

Loxley

Member
maquiladora said:
Tolkien purists are generally far more critical of the LOTR films though. I remember people on one of the more purist-centric forums saying a lot less favorable things than 'pretty good' when LOTR came out back in the day.

Man, all this feels like going back in time. Its weird.
Click to expand...

"Pretty good" from a Tolkien purist actually sounds like high praise.
 
M

maquiladora

Member
Edmond, have you read these books?

rateliff.jpg


I have them but haven't read them yet. I only ask because I remember reading in a recent interview Peter Jackson said that they were taking material not only from the appendices but also from earlier abandoned Hobbit drafts. I'm guess that would be whats covered in these books.
 
E

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
maquiladora said:
Edmond, have you read these books?

rateliff.jpg


I have them but haven't read them yet. I only ask because I remember reading in a recent interview Peter Jackson said that they were taking material not only from the appendices but also from earlier abandoned Hobbit drafts. I'm guess that would be whats covered in these books.
Click to expand...
The best study of Hobbit out there.

Rateliff is one of the greatest Tolkien scholars out there not named Christopher Tolkien.

His History of The Hobbit books fit in nicely with Christopher's series. Surprisingly, Christopher has never attempted to analyze The Hobbit in the same manner as The Lord of the Rings and The Silmarillion.
 
E

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
Having read Rateliff's books, I can't really put my finger on what Peter may have used or wanted to use from earlier drafts.

The first few chapters of the 1960 Hobbit do add certain things and a bit more detail.

I've posted about this before, but here are a few of the key elements of the drafts, in particular the Pryftan (Smaug's original name) fragment.

Thorin was originally known as Gandalf the Dwarf, didn't change permanently until the third phase of development
Gandalf was Bladorthin, which is more in keeping with Tolkien's mythos rather than the Norse 'Gandalf'
Smaug was known as Pryftan the Dragon
Beorn was known as Medwed
The Goblin King mentioned early in the story been beheaded and hence the game of golf been invented was called Fingolfin, the golfin an obvious reference to golf. The name eventually went to the great Elven Lord most famous for challenging Melkor to single combat.

The Necromancer was called Thu the Necromancer and was mentioned in the Lay of Lethian.

His development goes as follows:

Tu/Fangli (bad/good wizards from the Lost Tales) > Tevildo The Lord of Cats (a subordinate of Melko (Melko been Melkor's original name)) > Thu the Necromancer > The Necromancer > Sauron the Great/The Lord of Werewolves/Annatar Lord of Gifts/Gorthaur the Cruel/Mairon of Aule.

Beren and Luthien were mentioned in The Hobbit during the drafting phase just as in The Lord of the Rings, before been dropped.

Bilbo was originally intended to kill Pryftan, rather than Bard who had not yet been conceived. Bard was hence created to fill a void very quickly, explaining his sudden appearance with little backstory

Thorin was also a candidate. He was originally intended to survive and become King under the Mountain, instead of dying in the Battle of the Five Armies with Kili and Fili (originally his great-nephews).

As for the battle, it wasn't originally intended to happen, rather a political end with Bladorthin negotiating peace.

A battle would occur though, but a much smaller one with elves and goblins and men , no wargs, dwarves, eagles or Medwed.
 
S

Snaku

Banned
Kyleripman said:
I hope so. I could watch a whole trilogy of movies that never leave the Shire. It's so goddamn comfortable and quaint. I'd love to visit the set one day.
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This. I'm always disappointed that so little time was spent there in Fellowship, even in the EE. It was in too much of a hurry to get to the orc killing.
 
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