As did I for the longest time (or at least "Smawg"), but the "proper" pronunciation that I've learned is Smaug = Smowg, like "cow". Jackson is pronouncing it like I imagine Sean Connery would.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
The Hobbit - Official Thread of Officially In Production
- Thread starter WyndhamPrice
- Start date
- Status
As did I for the longest time (or at least "Smawg"), but the "proper" pronunciation that I've learned is Smaug = Smowg, like "cow". Jackson is pronouncing it like I imagine Sean Connery would.
Candeldandel
Member
I...have no problem with thatOn a side note, if we do end up creating a Production Thread 2 once we reach 10,000 (wow) posts in a page or two, I request it be called "The Hobbit: Desolation of Shmaug Production Thread".
Seriously, I have never heard someone pronounce Smaug the way Jackson does, it is quite baffling.
I have a theory about this... I think it might be an inside joke of some sort. I've heard Andy Serkis (and others!) say it like that too, and there's usually a humorous reaction from people around them. There's really no reason to stick an "h" in there unless you're being silly, methinks
I've also said "Smog" for... ever, but I like the proper way of saying it better <3
No.
From Appendix E of The Lord Of The Rings, Writing and Spelling:
It's weird how people interpret things though. I always read it as 'Smowg' even before I had it confirmed, yet I mostly hear Americans on podcasts etc pronounce it as 'Smog'. Maybe it's a bias of our particular dialects?
timetokill
Banned
It's clearly meant to be "smog" when you consider that The Hobbit is a commentary on the pursuit of wealth in Industrial Revolution-era England. The dwarves clearly embody the industrious Protestant work ethic that spurred this period, not to mention the focus on steam power and metallurgy that defined that period.
With their drive for more production, more output, comes the nasty byproduct of pollution that England had to deal with at that time, or "smog." The pollution got so bad that people's quality of living decreased, preventing them from actually enjoying the wealth they had created. This is symbolized by the mountains of gold being hoarded by the pollution itself, Smaug (smog).
Indeed, at one point Gandalf also notes that the insects he uses to summon the eagles have turned black, a clear nod to the Peppered Moth and how it evolved during the Industrial Revolution.
With their drive for more production, more output, comes the nasty byproduct of pollution that England had to deal with at that time, or "smog." The pollution got so bad that people's quality of living decreased, preventing them from actually enjoying the wealth they had created. This is symbolized by the mountains of gold being hoarded by the pollution itself, Smaug (smog).
Indeed, at one point Gandalf also notes that the insects he uses to summon the eagles have turned black, a clear nod to the Peppered Moth and how it evolved during the Industrial Revolution.
The bunny sleigh doesn't bother me, but I definitely take exception to the stick insect (especially given that it warranted inclusion over scenes like young Bilbo in the market).
Megalosaro
Banned
The only scene I really don't like is the Warg chase after the trolls. I don't see why they couldn't just have the dwarves arrive in Rivendell peacefully. Instead we have some half assed chase that doesn't even make sense geographically
I have a theory about this... I think it might be an inside joke of some sort. I've heard Andy Serkis (and others!) say it like that too, and there's usually a humorous reaction from people around them. There's really no reason to stick an "h" in there unless you're being silly, methinks
I've also said "Smog" for... ever, but I like the proper way of saying it better <3
I could've sworn someone said Serkis did it that way to poke fun at the way Jackson says it. Jackson might just legitimately say it that way.
Edmond Dantès
Dantès the White
It's a valid theory, but more applicable to The Lord of the Rings, not The Hobbit.
As for Smaug's name, Tolkien stated in Letter #25 that:
Also from HOME Volume 12, Peoples of Middle-earth:
To add to that, the dragon's original name was Pryftan in the earliest draft in existence. Pryf (Welsh for worm, vermin), -tan (Welsh for fire); hence Fire-Worm, Fire-Wyrm.
No where did Tolkien state or allude to Smaug representing Smog or pollution.
Edmond Dantès
Dantès the White
'Hobbit home' in Pembrokeshire faces demolition
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-21942172
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/9955332/Hobbit-home-facing-demolition.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-21942172
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/9955332/Hobbit-home-facing-demolition.html
Ludicrous Speed
Banned
Finally watched the film. I actually really liked it, which surprised me since the reviews were mediocre and it seemed that a lot of people didn't like it.
The only cringe worthy moment was when the Goblin King said, "That'll do it" when he is killed by Gandalf. That really took me out of the film with how cheesy it was.
Oh, and why didn't they just fly on the eagles the rest of the way to the dwarves' home? They got dropped off quite a ways away.
Other than that, it was a fine film and I'm definitely looking forward to the sequel now.
The only cringe worthy moment was when the Goblin King said, "That'll do it" when he is killed by Gandalf. That really took me out of the film with how cheesy it was.
Oh, and why didn't they just fly on the eagles the rest of the way to the dwarves' home? They got dropped off quite a ways away.
Other than that, it was a fine film and I'm definitely looking forward to the sequel now.
Edmond Dantès
Dantès the White
The eagles were wary of coming in contact with the settlements of men close to Dale. The men were known to shoot at the eagles. The men were indiscriminate in their distrust of eagles even though the Lord of the Eagles and his colony were of the noble sort.
Edmond Dantès
Dantès the White
Bard would have known about the eagles; that some were unsavoury of character, not fell beasts, but certainly not noble or trustworthy like the Lord of the Eagle's colony. Whether the aforementioned Lord was Gwaihir of The Lord of the Rings is debatable. But it certainly possible considering how long lived the noble eagles, descendants of Thorondor of the First age seemed to be.
I wouldn't worry spoiler tags for anything that has already occured in AUJ.
Everything Wrong With An Unexpected Journey in 4 Minutes Or Less (Yes, he wonders why the eagles didn't carry the dwarves to the Lonely Mountain)
I really like his videos, but this wasn't his strongest. A lot of his problems simply extend from the book (which the comments section is making him very aware of). Or maybe it's because I know why some of the things he complains about are the way they are, so they didn't bother me.
I really like his videos, but this wasn't his strongest. A lot of his problems simply extend from the book (which the comments section is making him very aware of). Or maybe it's because I know why some of the things he complains about are the way they are, so they didn't bother me.
It is possible that accents/dialects alter how people pronounce it. But I think the most likely reason is a matter of lacking knowledge of the proper pronunciations, laziness, or simply not caring and going with what is easiest or familiar.
Plenty of people use incorrect pronunciations of common English words all of the time, so I am not too surprised that many people say "smog".
as a native spanish speaker, it was always "Smowg" for me (actually "Smaug" in spanish sounds as written. Thanks, vowel pronunciation in spanish!)
On the other hand, I found it a bit difficult at first to pronounce "Celeborn" as "Keleborn" (because there's no way in spanish for "ce" to be pronounced as "ke") but I learned fast. I guess
There's one thing I'm curious about that he brought up that I haven't run across in my Tolkien scouring: why exactly is Sting the only sword that glows blue around orcs/goblins? Was Gandalf's line a screw up on Jackson's part?
Edmond Dantès
Dantès the White
They should all glow. The only reason Glamdring doesn't glow is because they forgot about it during the production of The Lord of the Rings. They've now maintained this in The Hobbit for continuity.
In the books, Glamdring and Orcrist both glow in addition to Sting. In the Lord of the Rings (the films) the decision was made to only have Sting glow so audiences wouldn't get confused, because they likely didn't want to waste time explaining why Gandalf's sword was also glowing. They also probably wanted to give the impression that Frodo's weapon was special. *edit - Or it could be just because they forgot
Glamdring and Orcist don't glow in the Hobbit films simply for the sake of continuity.
Edmond Dantès
Dantès the White
They could link it to the Silmarils, it wouldn't be beyond what material they can use as the Silmarils of Feanor are mentioned in The Lord of the Rings. But frankly, they should probably leave it a mystery as it is in the book.
The Silmarils bring a lot of baggage with them, not really suitable for a story like The Hobbit even with all the added material.
Much blood was spilt for those jewels and a war far beyond the War of the Ring in scope.
Megalosaro
Banned
In the books, Glamdring and Orcrist both glow in addition to Sting. In the Lord of the Rings (the films) the decision was made to only have Sting glow so audiences wouldn't get confused, because they likely didn't want to waste time explaining why Gandalf's sword was also glowing. They also probably wanted to give the impression that Frodo's weapon was special. *edit - Or it could be just because they forgot
Glamdring and Orcist don't glow in the Hobbit films simply for the sake of continuity.
"It's just weird to me that Gandalf constantly mentions how elvish swords glow when there are orcs around. And then they emphasize several times that Orcrist and Glamdring are FAMOUS ELVISH SWORDS MADE FOR FIGHTING ORCS and yet they don't glow also
Edmond Dantès
Dantès the White
It's a bit sloppy of the production team, especially considering their normal attention to detail.
Edmond Dantès;51697668 said:
What makes it more frustrating is that they could have easily just tossed in some made-up backstory for why Sting was the only sword among the three that did glow. Perhaps Gandalf could tell the blade's alloy was imbued with some sort of, I don't know, special mineral created by the smiths of Gondolin to detect orcs or something.
Also, as long as we're on the topic of Sting, I don't think I've mentioned how I disliked the way Sting "went out" after Gollum killed the Goblin that fell into the cavern with Bilbo. It flickers out like a lightbulb, which was a bit goofy looking. Especially since - in Return of the King - there's a moment where Sting is lying on the ground next to Sam after he tries to save Frodo from Shelob, that pack of Orcs comes near and Sting's glow slowly begins to intensify, it doesn't "switch on".
Yeah, it's a nit-pick, but there are already plenty of people complaining out some of the film's bigger issues so I've taken up the task of griping about the small and insignificant ones
Edmond Dantès
Dantès the White
That's a good one.What makes it more frustrating is that they could have easily just tossed in some made-up backstory for why Sting was the only sword among the three that did glow. Perhaps Gandalf could tell the blade's alloy was imbued with some sort of, I don't know, special mineral created by the smiths of Gondolin to detect orcs or something.
Also, as long as we're on the topic of Sting, I don't think I've mentioned how I disliked the way Sting "went out" after Gollum killed the Goblin that fell into the cavern with Bilbo. It flickers out like a lightbulb, which was a bit goofy looking. Especially since - in Return of the King - there's a moment where Sting is lying on the ground next to Sam after he tries to save Frodo from Shelob, that pack of Orcs comes near and Sting's glow slowly begins to intensify, it doesn't "switch on".
Yeah, it's a nit-pick, but there are already plenty of people complaining out some of the film's bigger issues so I've taken up the task of griping about the small and insignificant ones
One my main nitpicks is still the ease in which Radagast dealt with the Witch-king. The very same Witch-king who would later topple Gandalf the White (as close to Olorin as could be in Middle-earth) and break his staff.
Do you not know death when you see it old man.
This is my hour.
fredrancour
Member
Edmond Dantès;51746022 said:That's a good one.
One my main nitpicks is still the ease in which Radagast dealt with the Witch-king. The very same Witch-king who would later topple Gandalf the White (as close to Olorin as could be in Middle-earth) and break his staff.
Do you not know death when you see it old man.
This is my hour.
I interpreted that bit as, all the evil shit is still half-dead and in the process of re-awakening. The ringwraiths are not anywhere near full power at that point.
Edmond Dantès
Dantès the White
That's the difference between the film canon and the Legendarium. In the Legendarium the Nazgul were causing havoc even during Sauron's downtime, the Witch-king in particular was a very potent force who dealt with the last King of Gondor (Eärnur) after challenging him to combat twice.
fredrancour
Member
Edmond Dantès;51747969 said:
Yeah, I didn't know that while watching the film. My first successful lotr reread since the age of 10 happened after seeing hobbit. I did skim the appendices and read about the decline of gondor though.
Still, the movies are apparently going with
"the wraiths were locked up tight and decaying before sauron returned"
Edmond Dantès;51746022 said:That's a good one.
One my main nitpicks is still the ease in which Radagast dealt with the Witch-king. The very same Witch-king who would later topple Gandalf the White (as close to Olorin as could be in Middle-earth) and break his staff.
Do you not know death when you see it old man.
This is my hour.
Two things:
First, I took it that that wasn't the Witch-King in all his glory yet. He was just a guardian wraith, not yet in physical form and could easily be dismissed by a wizard, even Radagast.
EDIT: As mentioned above, I'm aware they were doing all kinds of crazy shit in the books, but they're definitely taking a different route with the films. A route I find interesting, especially after that Highfell tombs clip.
Secondly, I always thought he said "This is my power", not hour. Mind blown.
Edmond Dantès
Dantès the White
Well, if any of the Race of Men could imprison the Nazgul, then it would be the Dúnedain.
AngmarsKing701
Member
Edmond Dantès;51746022 said:That's a good one.
One my main nitpicks is still the ease in which Radagast dealt with the Witch-king. The very same Witch-king who would later topple Gandalf the White (as close to Olorin as could be in Middle-earth) and break his staff.
Do you not know death when you see it old man.
This is my hour.
What others have said, basically. The film interpretation implies the Nazgul have only recently awakened when Radagast happens upon the Witch-King. While during the RotK, when Sauron's troops are flooding into the streets of Minas Tirith and defeat seems likely, the Witch-King is at the height of his power (in fact, AT THAT HOUR)... but the Rohirrim turned that tide.
As much as I like the Witch-King lore -- and would love to learn more of it -- I agree with Edmond that I would have liked Gandalf to stand firm in that scene. PJ definitely made it appear as though the Lord of the Nazgul was more powerful than the White Wizard.
In essence, I feel for the Witch-King. A great man but bowed and enslaved by greed and temptation. He is a lesson to us all: be careful that your reach does not extend beyond your grasp.
Edmond Dantès
Dantès the White
Selective use of his power. Defeating and ridding Middle-earth of the Balrog was something he needed to do at that particular time, there wouldn't be a better oppurtunity to battle it.
Azog was still just a mere orc in the grand scheme of things and losing his physical body wasn't something he was prepared to risk. Better to flee.
Edmond Dantès
Dantès the White
'Hobbit' Dominates Blu-ray, DVD Charts
http://m.hollywoodreporter.com/news/hobbit-dominates-blu-ray-dvd-431468
http://m.hollywoodreporter.com/news/hobbit-dominates-blu-ray-dvd-431468
Edmond Dantès
Dantès the White
Indeed. Allowing Narya to fall into enemy hands would have been very unwise.
Edmond Dantès
Dantès the White
Extended edition officially confirmed, in time for Christmas 2013
http://www.bluray-disc.de/blu-ray-n...e-reise-noch-vor-weihnachten-auf-blu-ray-disc
http://www.areadvd.de/news/2013/03/...d-edition-von-warner-fur-ende-2013-bestatigt/
http://www.bluray-disc.de/blu-ray-n...e-reise-noch-vor-weihnachten-auf-blu-ray-disc
http://www.areadvd.de/news/2013/03/...d-edition-von-warner-fur-ende-2013-bestatigt/
Edmond Dantès
Dantès the White
Indeed. It's a good way to build up the hype for The Desolation of Smaug.
I watched the film for the second time, at home, via Blu Ray. I liked it enough when I saw it in the theatre, I liked it even better at home.
It's an exceedingly well made movie, a movie that deviates and expands from the literature with confidence. It continues to build on Jackson's vision of Middle Earth, which has it's own appeal.
I feel it's a very meticulous movie. Every flashback refers directly to the main story, creating a nation-spanning epic tale. What happens at The Lonely Mountain is going to affect all Middle Earth and even have an impact on Jackson's LOTR. What a great game Gandalf is playing to pull off this multi-part caper he's hatched up! He's fooling everybody!
The dwarven talents really stood out this time. They are a people who can organize and and assemble naturally, at the drop of the hat and with great effect. Cleaning up plates, singing with hums, implementing teamwork and unusual tactics in battle, this is how Jackson is showing their inheirent unity and how it makes them quite capable.
My one minor complaint is how extreme some of the action scenes are. The stone giant scene was so lethal looking I doubted most people would survive. The same thing happens when they run from the goblins. That is a great scene until the end when their walkway takes a thousand yard slide which would have killed all without the liberal dose of predictible movie luck. Toning down scenes like that would make the heros seem more real rather than cartoon characters.
But I'm happy to say that this movie continues the quality and depth of the first trilogy. It will stand up to many viewings and is a true treasure on those cold and rainy nights.
Can't wait for the second!
It's an exceedingly well made movie, a movie that deviates and expands from the literature with confidence. It continues to build on Jackson's vision of Middle Earth, which has it's own appeal.
I feel it's a very meticulous movie. Every flashback refers directly to the main story, creating a nation-spanning epic tale. What happens at The Lonely Mountain is going to affect all Middle Earth and even have an impact on Jackson's LOTR. What a great game Gandalf is playing to pull off this multi-part caper he's hatched up! He's fooling everybody!
The dwarven talents really stood out this time. They are a people who can organize and and assemble naturally, at the drop of the hat and with great effect. Cleaning up plates, singing with hums, implementing teamwork and unusual tactics in battle, this is how Jackson is showing their inheirent unity and how it makes them quite capable.
My one minor complaint is how extreme some of the action scenes are. The stone giant scene was so lethal looking I doubted most people would survive. The same thing happens when they run from the goblins. That is a great scene until the end when their walkway takes a thousand yard slide which would have killed all without the liberal dose of predictible movie luck. Toning down scenes like that would make the heros seem more real rather than cartoon characters.
But I'm happy to say that this movie continues the quality and depth of the first trilogy. It will stand up to many viewings and is a true treasure on those cold and rainy nights.
Can't wait for the second!
maquiladora
Member
Edmond Dantès;51804489 said:
Excellent. I'm holding out for this.
Edmond Dantès
Dantès the White
I'll probably do the same. Very much looking forward to extras available in the extended edition.
Edmond Dantès
Dantès the White
I have been watching this at home on blu-ray as well and I think the movie has terrible pacing. Nothing of consequence happens in this movie. It's a travelogue with no forward momentum. The Cave Troll sequence is cutting room floor material. Completely unnecessary and has no bearing on the plot whatsoever. It's not funny. It's not suspenseful. The trolls themselves are not humorous or engaging. The entire sequene is fan service and any good editor would have cut the hell out of that scene. The movie has odd pit stops like this throughout.
Actually this movie, at least the narrative structure, is almost beat for beat the exact same movie as Fellowship.
Start in Hobbiton. Gandalf shows up at a Hobbit's house. They talk about stuff. Gandalf and company talk of going on a quest. The hobbit is reluctant to go but decides to go. Hobbit joins the company. Jokes are made about how Hobbits are quaint and not made for fighting etc. Hobbit and co. pitch a fire and there is a monologue about things. Hobbit and co. get attacked by Orcs. In this case it is a pac of Wargs that attack them in pretty much the exact same location as in The Two Towers (hey it's Rohan!). Hobbits and Co. are saved by the elves. Hobbit and co. take refuge in Rivendell. Gandalf has a council meeting with Council Elders. The company leaves Rivendell and takes a mountai pass. There is a battle between mountain giants ..... in Fellowship of the Ring it was a wizard creating a lightning storm over the mountain. Here it's two giants throwing rocks in a lightning storm. Hobbit and co. escape and run into Orcs in a massive cave network. Hobbit and co. escape the Orcs and. In the last act the Hobbit displays courage and wins the affection of the doubters in the company. Courageous Hobbit music swells in the background and everyone is happy. The End.
Actually this movie, at least the narrative structure, is almost beat for beat the exact same movie as Fellowship.
Start in Hobbiton. Gandalf shows up at a Hobbit's house. They talk about stuff. Gandalf and company talk of going on a quest. The hobbit is reluctant to go but decides to go. Hobbit joins the company. Jokes are made about how Hobbits are quaint and not made for fighting etc. Hobbit and co. pitch a fire and there is a monologue about things. Hobbit and co. get attacked by Orcs. In this case it is a pac of Wargs that attack them in pretty much the exact same location as in The Two Towers (hey it's Rohan!). Hobbits and Co. are saved by the elves. Hobbit and co. take refuge in Rivendell. Gandalf has a council meeting with Council Elders. The company leaves Rivendell and takes a mountai pass. There is a battle between mountain giants ..... in Fellowship of the Ring it was a wizard creating a lightning storm over the mountain. Here it's two giants throwing rocks in a lightning storm. Hobbit and co. escape and run into Orcs in a massive cave network. Hobbit and co. escape the Orcs and. In the last act the Hobbit displays courage and wins the affection of the doubters in the company. Courageous Hobbit music swells in the background and everyone is happy. The End.
Edmond Dantès
Dantès the White
Much of your criticisms are related to the source material. The novel follows the very same structure with one set piece after another interspersed with short periods of downtime.
Edmond Dantès;51847617 said:
I have no idea why, but watching that reminded me that the first time I listened to Into the West and heard the line "Why do the white gulls call?", I thought she was saying "Why do the white girls call?" but with an accent of some sort. Naturally I was slightly confused.
When I looked up the lyrics and was glad I was wrong, :lol
Edmond Dantès
Dantès the White
My confession; I thought Legolas said "Crowbar from Ireland" in The Fellowship of the Ring. I was befuddled, then I realised he said "Crebain from Dunland".
Candeldandel
Member
Edmond Dantès;51851235 said:
YES! Omg, we still call them "crab eyes from Dublin"
Edmond Dantès
Dantès the White
I look forward to more confusing and cringeworthy lines from Legolas.YES! Omg, we still call them "crab eyes from Dublin"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uE-1RPDqJAY&feature=youtube_gdata_player
- Status