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[maquiladora]

I felt astonished & amazed...the term is WOWED...and yet a bit uncertain about the 48 fps 3D footage from Peter Jackson's "The Hobbit."

The fact is that 48 fps 3D is the most startlingly "real" 3D I've ever seen in my life. The downside for older types is that it's too real.

In a word, 48 fps 3D looks like high-def video. It doesn't look "cinematic", lacking that filtered or gauzy look we're all accustomed to.

And yet it's breathtaking, especially w/ action scenes and CG stuff. Younger auds will cream in their pants. Older viewers not so much.

Our sense of cnema as we know it changed radically today. Henceforth 48 fps will not just become the norm but we're going to hear calls...

...for up-rezzing classic 24 fps films to 48 fps. Douglas Trumbull has done this. 48 fps kills that classic filtered, strobing effect.

https://twitter.com/#!/wellshwood

 

[Prophet Steve]

cant lie after kong and lovely bones i was sceptical of the hobbit films, and honestly the trailer looked odd to me, the parts with gandalf looked like sets, perhaps its because of the amount of behind the scenes stuff ive seen but it did not immerse me.

I cant lie as a diehard lotr fan im more than a little concerned :[

You know they are talking about the frame rate right?

 

[Loxley]

Better write-up: http://www.aintitcool.com/node/55212

Much better. Not that I'm looking for glowing impressions simply to validate my optimism about the new format, but this seems like a much more fair approach.

At the very least everyone seems to agree that the landscapes and vistas look unbelievable at 48 FPS. Man, can't wait.

 

[maquiladora]

It was, simply put, mind-blowing to see in 48 frames per second. It's literally like being on the set next to the actors as they're performing.

Once audiences get to see The Hobbit screened at the 48 frames per second rate when it's released in theaters on December 14, 2012, I can guarantee moviegoers are going to demand all films be presented at 48 fps.

- RE: the 48 frames. I think it will take a bit of adjusting our expectations, but I've never a movie that jumps off the screen and immerses you in the film the way this 10 minute piece did.
- RE: the performances. On par with Lord of the Rings, with Martin Freeman appearing to be the perfect Bilbo.

http://movies.about.com/b/2012/04/24/hobbit-footage-screened.htm

I'm very curious/mildly terrified to see what this looks like.

A much more negative report: http://www.thewrap.com/movies/colum...hobbit-higher-frame-rate-effect-lacking-37254

 

[Allard]

Better write-up: http://www.aintitcool.com/node/55212

Yeah this is what I was hoping and thought would happen. 48 FPS and other higher frames per second is going to be a monumental change in how things are perceived for better or worse; people will either hate it or love it, there will likely be little middle ground between the two camps. You are getting so much more information and the unfamiliar "Can't be real" computer generated stuff feels more real and alive then ever, but the practical 'fake' effects that were originally masked by the lower frame rate and post-processing effects (Which can be changed between now and release) now stick out like a sore thumb. Basically the bigger the event piece or grounded in reality the movie gets (period pieces with real locations and not sets), the greater the experience with higher FPS. But mundane everyday sequences and standard movie cinematography is going to take a hit going to the new format.

I really can't wait to see this in a proper theater with 3D. I actually like 3D as it is now in theaters but as someone that got a chance to see gaming in 60+ FPS on my computer for each eye I can say without a doubt the higher frame rate makes a HUGE difference in immersion.

 

[LegendofJoe]

I don't know how I'm going to react to seeing 48 FPS in a movie for the first time, but I cannot wait to find out. Btw does anyone else think this is new thread worthy?

 

[SUPREME1]

Bring on the higher frame rate.

 

[Expendable.]

The biggest curmudgeon on the internet chimes in: http://hollywood-elsewhere.com/2012/04/48_frames_chang.php

The state of cinema as most of us know it changed radically today when 10 minutes of footage from Peter Jackson's 48 frames-per-second 3D The Hobbit were shown on the huge Collisseum theatre inside Caeser's Palace today. 48 fps 3D is such a startling and game-changing thing that it's like the introduction of sound in 1927, and of CinemaScope in 1953, and high-end 3D with Avatar. I was knocked back in my seat...open-mouthed. This is the most startlingly "real" form of cinema I've ever seen, so much so that it isn't "cinema." And there's the rub.

It's like watching super high-def video, or without that filtered, painterly, brushstroke-y, looking-through a window feeling that feature films have delivered since forever. On one level it's fantastic, and on another level it removes the artistic scrim or membrane that separates the audience from the performers.

Believe it or not but I, Jeffrey Wells, a Peter Jackson and Rings trilogy hater from way back, am looking forward big-time to The Hobbit now. I really am. This is going to be amazing. Shallow Hal that I am, I'm not into it big-time.

 

[THE-Pink-Dagger]

Loving those latest reactions, exactly what I expect. But if it really was ungraded, it makes a huge difference, no wonder the sets looked like sets according to Faraci. You look at ANY footage from a movie ungraded, it looks like crap. So seeing those positive comments even with unfinished and ungraded footage is really encouraging, it will obviously look even better once released.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

I don't know how I'm going to react to seeing 48 FPS in a movie for the first time, but I cannot wait to find out. Btw does anyone else think this is new thread worthy?

It is pretty big news and should be discussed by the general populace of GAF rather than just by the regulars in this thread.

 

[THE-Pink-Dagger]

Definitely, this is going to be a revolution and something that I hope and think will be addictive once you get over that feeling of uber realism. Cannot wait to see this but I highly doubt that we'll be seeing this at the end of the year in Europe......

 

[Discotheque]

It sounds cool but it worries me. I love the 'cinematic' look and it works especially well with epics like this.

Being rid of it entirely in favour of some HD-camera real-world look would make it seem off for me. I love digital film though so I dunno. But I'm just not convinced it works with EVERY film.

 

[TJ Bennett]

Hopefully PJ & company can turn this disastrous tech demo around. I'm excited for the content of the film, but the 48fps presentation sounds like my worst movie viewing nightmares.

 

[ThatCrazyGuy]

I'm excited for this so much. I want to sit in the theater with the finished product later this year and see how it all pans out.

 

[maquiladora]

Definitely, this is going to be a revolution and something that I hope and think will be addictive once you get over that feeling of uber realism. Cannot wait to see this but I highly doubt that we'll be seeing this at the end of the year in Europe......

Sony announced that their projectors can be updated to show 48fps with a software update available from the fall. I know the projectors in my local cinema are Sony so I can't imagine it will be a big deal for that to get updated, Europe or not.

 

[Neffarias_Bredd]

I'm almost as excited now to see how the movie looks in 48fps as to see the actual movie itself

 

[THE-Pink-Dagger]

Mmm and Slashfilm saying that vistas, landscapes, etc look amazing but that other stuff looks completely different, like fake bla bla, actors on set, bla bla. It's not surprising as it's so new, but it not being graded and unfinished probably makes it look that way. I'm much more interested by the reactions of those who try to understand it rather than those already bashing it.

 

[maquiladora]

Warner Bros and Peter Jackson are hoping that most theaters will upgrade before the film comes out in December. Judging from the reaction from theater owners and managers, I’m not sure if that will happen or not.

http://www.slashfilm.com/cinemacon-...ic-future-james-cameron-promised/#more-125853

Maybe we'll see optional screenings like we have now with 2D and 3D?

 

[Loxley]

Mmm and Slashfilm saying that vistas, landscapes, etc look amazing but that other stuff looks completely different, like fake bla bla, actors on set, bla bla. It's not surprising as it's so new, but it not being graded and unfinished probably makes it look that way. I'm much more interested by the reactions of those who try to understand it rather than those already bashing it.

I love /Film to death and normally greatly enjoy Peter's articles, but he contradicts himself in his thought-piece about the footage. He says half-way through he doesn't want to come off as "sensationalist" in his negative reaction....when the title of the article is pretty much saying "48FPS is Probably Not the Future of Cinema Because it Looks Weird".

That's a very bold claim to make after seeing only 10 minutes of unfinished, ungraded footage of the first film to ever be shot at 48 FPS.

I've decided I'm going to just ignore the articles that are out-right negative reactions like that.

 

[THE-Pink-Dagger]

I've watched the video.report from Slashfilm, and this is very interesting, Peter is much more positive in it, and Billington and Frosty, they are all very intrigued and talk about the fact that it looks so completely different and new, that it comes off as a shock, because of how real it looks and they bring up once again the helicopter shots, vistas that they agree look incredible, like there was no movie, you were there. They also bring up the troll scene that blew them away, especially Billington who says that the trolls feel so much more real, like everything feels real ; and Bilbo and Gollum's riddle scene in the cave that even if unfinished looked incredible like you were there in the cave.

They agree that the lighting might have been what made some of the scenes on sets, etc look fake, and also that it was ungraded, and unfinished, so a bit early to judge these scenes in particular.

They talk a lot of the "getting used to" feeling, like there's a learning curve.

They are pretty psyched about it, even if wary. I bet it will look incredible, the description of the troll scene shot from Bilbo's perspective, from his back, imagine this in 3D 48 fps looking super real like you're there, the future.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Getting back to the content of the footage shown. AICN's Monty Cristo has this to say:

Spoiler

Dwarves crossing mountains, bobbing down a river in barrels, and fighting trolls.

Gandalf in a dungeon, searching for…something. Some other thing is in there with him.

Gandalf showing Elrond and Galadriel a sword that troubles them deeply.

Legolas drawing his bow, and threatening to use it.

Bilbo and Gollum in a cave.

If just for a moment…Saruman.

I think the sword is most certainly

Spoiler

Glamdring

 

[Loxley]

Getting back to the content of the footage shown. AICN's Monty Cristo has this to say:

Spoiler

Dwarves crossing mountains, bobbing down a river in barrels, and fighting trolls.

Gandalf in a dungeon, searching for…something. Some other thing is in there with him.

Gandalf showing Elrond and Galadriel a sword that troubles them deeply.

Legolas drawing his bow, and threatening to use it.

Bilbo and Gollum in a cave.

If just for a moment…Saruman.

I think the sword is most certainly

Spoiler

Glamdring

Sounds great. And you know what? As hesitant as people have been about Jackson adding

Spoiler

Legolas despite the fact that he was never in The Hobbit, I have to admit I get excited at the description of his cameo. I think it'll be pretty cool to see Orlando Bloom briefly return to the role that pretty much made him famous after ten years.

Also, I'm really anticipating the scene with

Spoiler

Gandalf investigating (likely) Dol Guldur and looking for the the Necromancer.

 

[Sirius]

The impressions sound like the telltale signs of a new industry standard, .. this definitely deserves it's own thread.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

More in depth look at the footage courtesy of the One Ring.

Spoiler

PJ's intro was mostly about the technical aspects, saying that this change in frame rate is analogous to moving from silent to sound.

Opening shots were helicopter shots, similar to opening of TTT. Gorgeous. Sunrise over Misty Mountains to the fluting strains of Howard Shore music. Followed by a few shots that were seen in the trailer, intros of characters, etc.

Dol Guldur/Thrain - Gandalf is seen wandering through sub-dungeon of Dol Guldur, searching through corridors as if being chased. Thrain crazed, out his mind from torture, jumps out of the dark in a "Boo!" moment and attacks Gandalf. Yes, this is the scene from the trailer. Thrain's face is not closely seen. No other creatures are seen there.

Scenes of Bilbo in the Shire, mostly stuff we've seen in the trailer or vlogs. Martin Freeman as Bilbo is very different from other hobbits. He has a lightness and elan, with a very light comedic touch. Not like slapstick humor of Merry & Pippin. Fresh, funny, approachable, comedic but not too much. Quickbeam was very enthusiastic about his performance.

Saruman/White Council - this was still green screen, no grading or background effects added yet. Elrond, Galadriel, Gandalf are shown sitting with Saruman. Radagast was not present. Galadriel looking at a sword, identifies as a Morgul blade. Everyone is aghast as she tells the history of the blade as she says it is the sword of the Witch-King and he was destroyed long before in battles with the North Kingdom. He was held in a dungeon in the North from which he should not have been able to escape but Galadriel is afraid that this means he has. Saruman is studying it carefully, with maybe a glint in his eye.

Galadriel touching Gandalf's face. The context is Galadriel asking Gandalf why he chose this particular hobbit. Gandalf says, almost to himself, that it is because he sometimes feels a little afraid and Bilbo gives him courage. Galadriel touches his face and tells him not to be afraid, that he always has friends.

Radagast - Gandalf is shown alone in the dark with his staff lit, searching through catacombs where the ringwraith's tombs are...then Radagast appears suddenly. Both put their staffs down the tunnel to see the tombs broken open. Radagast seems rather childlike, like he is more in tune wth animals than people. Radagast's staff is similar to Gandalf's; a knobbly wooden staff. Radagast is "weird and wonderful" looks nothing like the Decipher card. This is a new Radagast is an "unbelievable, crazy, cool, mess", with a bird's nest on his head. Quickbeam loved his appearance and style. Radagast was only shown in the dark, "Moria-style" dungeon which was only lit by Gandalf's staff. It was hard to see costume details but they appeared to be a mixture of black and brown, with a "weird shaped" hat with flaps on it. He has a bird nest on his head under his hat. Was conversing with Gandalf about the crypts/tombs that had once belonged to the Ringwraiths. Radagast also has a staff. The only other shot of Radagast was him flying by in his sled. Radagast has a sled that runs on the forest floor, drawn by larger-than-life (but not giant) grey jackrabbits. Q really liked the sled, thought it was cool.

Mirkwood, the dwarves are shown after their spider sequence, they are covered in spider webs. Don't see much of Mirkwood, what is seen has spider webs everywhere. Tauriel slides into the scene with bow and arrow at the ready. Brown outfit with braided hairdo. Medium brown hair (not blond). Legolas appeared at the end of the scene with Tauriel. AS the dwarves are running covered in webs, they are suddenly confronted by Elves, and Legolas has an arrow pointed at Thorin's nose, saying "I will not hesitate to kill you, dwarf!" setting up for his attitude in LOTR. His costume is the same as LOTR. Tauriel's is similar, but in brown rather than green.

Not shown in the footage - No shot of Thranduil. No Laketown, no Elven halls. No shots of spiders or eagles. No Beorn. No Rhosgobel or Necromancer. No shots of Dale, Lonely Mountain or any hint of Smaug. No shots of goblins. No Bard or Master of Laketown. No hint of Aragorn/Rangers, etc. No shots of the Ring. Not much of the music, it's still be worked on. No dwarf singing, no Elves on horseback, no wargs, no goblins. No dwarf women.

Dwarves - Dwarves look great, with a lot of detail. Some are presented in a comedic way, some serious, all very different and distinct characters. No more dwarf singing. Sounds like mostly what we've already seen in trailer and vlogs except for one brief shot of dwarves in barrels on the river, with some effects tape visible - not a finished scene.

Trolls - They showed about a minute and a half of troll scene. Features some camera shots from above, creating a good sense of perspective with the live actors. Scene begins with a scene of Bilbo suddenly caught by "ginormous" hill trolls. In the troll scene, all the dwarves come runnign to rescue Bilbo. One of the younger ones takes an axe stroke at the legs of one troll, others stab at their feet. The trolls are articulate in speech with heavy Cockney accents. The scene goes similar to the book but not exactly. Wallet is not shown (or heard). "burrahobbit" is in, though we hear a "g" sound in there so it comes out like "burgahobbit". One of the trolls reminded Q a little of "Sloth" from The Goonies, with a slightly misshapen face

Riddle scene - Gollum is a "new vision" because he is now in 48fps. Scene is established with Bilbo begging for a way out of the cave but Gollum wants to play riddles. He identifies himself as Smeagol. Gollum regrets giving his name as Bilbo later regrets giving his. The Riddle scene was shown intercut with action scene with trolls, running with spiderwebs, Bilbo in the Shire. Gollum is mostly being Smeagol because he's trying to interact with another being that isn't a goblin. Bilbo still feels threatened and has Sting out in a defensive way. Sting is not glowing yet (there are no orcs present). Bilbo is wearing the same color jacket in the cave scene as in LOTR - he apparently leaves Rivendell wearing that jacket. - the scene ends with Gollum proposing the "stakes" - Bilbo saying if he wins, Gollum has to show him the way out. Gollum agrees and says that if he wins, "we gets to eats it raw". Bilbo hesitates and then agrees. Gollum comes off as attracted by the idea of talking with a fellow being, but also hungry, so we get a sense of the schizophrenic Seamgol/Gollum divide.

Returning characters - Christopher Lee might look slightly older, but Gandalf and Galadriel look the same. The returning characters look just the same as in LOTR. Legolas appears briefly.

Frame rate/3D - 48fps was crystal-clear and vivid, not like watching film. The images are "very sharp", the depth of field is "amazing". Quickbeam says he doesn't know if it's "too clear", it is very different and it you'll have to acclimate to it. The prosthetics did not look fake. The digital work of the CGI creatures looks even better at the higher frame rate. He says the trolls look fantastic. It will take some getting used to, whether people will like it immediately or not is hard to tell. It looks brighter and more vivid than LOTR footage. If there are complaints about the new framerate "I'm not surprised, welcome to the new frontier." It's a major change that will take adjustment. Fans will have the choice to see it in 2D or 3D -yes, 3D glasses will be needed. Quickbeam wore his comfortably over his usual glasses at this event. There were no scenes of "gimmick" 3D with things coming straight out of the screen, more a sense of depth in the image.

Good to know that the trolls

Spoiler

talk

. Shame about the

Spoiler

talking wallet though.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Radagast's depiction seems quite out there. There isn't really much written about him in any of Tolkien's works, so his character is certainly open to interpretation and Peter and co are certainly taking advantage of that.

 

[The Elite]

I'm almost as excited now to see how the movie looks in 48fps as to see the actual movie itself

This. Is there anything good on the net I can watch in 48fps?

 

[bud]

This. Is there anything good on the net I can watch in 48fps?

this was posted in the other thread: http://pub.lv-up.net/rocks48.zip.

two videos: one at 24fps, the other at 48fps.

 

[The Elite]

this was posted in the other thread: http://pub.lv-up.net/rocks48.zip.

two videos: one at 24fps, the other at 48fps.

Thanks!

 

[pottuvoi]

this was posted in the other thread: http://pub.lv-up.net/rocks48.zip.

two videos: one at 24fps, the other at 48fps.

Except that video had accidently 1/270 shutter on 48fps version instead of 1/64 so it got the saving private ryan look.

Here's better videos with correct shutter speed. (multiple mirrors.)
http://pub.lv-up.net/basement_red_fps.zip
http://www.mediafire.com/?idyttigb48fc290
http://ge.tt/9GEgaqG/v/0?c

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Is anyone here slightly concerned about the expanded Necromancer/White Council plot? The new info regarding the

Spoiler

Witch-King/Nazgul/Tomb

has me worried that Peter and co are straying too far from Tolkien's vision once again.

The

Spoiler

Witch-King

was never captured and entombed by anyone, neither were the other

Spoiler

Nazgul.

He played a significant role in the eventual demise of the Kingdom of Arnor after Sauron's fall at the War of the Last Alliance.

Even after his defeat at the Battle of Fornost he remained free, he then went on to lead a campaign against Minas Ithil. He was victorious and the city was renamed

Spoiler

Minas Morgul.

After that the final King of Gondor 'Eärnur' accepted his second challenge of single combat after refusing the first challenge seven years earlier. Eärnur went to

Spoiler

Minas Morgul

and was never heard from again. From that point on the Stewards took to ruling Gondor in the absence of a king.

Spoiler

The Witch-King

continued to rule

Spoiler

Minas Morgul

up until the events of The Lord of the Rings. I do wonder how Peter and co will reconcile this with their narrative. Who in Middle-earth during that period would be capable of taking on the

Spoiler

Witch-King

and imprisoning him? Glorfindel? Gandalf? Galadriel? If he wasn't imprisoned why would he and the rest of the

Spoiler

Nazgul

be hibernating in tombs, instead of preparing for

Spoiler

Sauron's return to Mordor.

 

[Loxley]

More in depth look at the footage courtesy of the One Ring.


Good to know that the trolls

Spoiler

talk

. Shame about the

Spoiler

talking wallet though.

They posted an even more in-depth article about the footage (with spoilers). One thing they mention that I didn't get from a lot of the other articles was that apparently there was a lot of unfinished green-screen in the footage shown...which explains a lot of the complaints that everything "looked like set". Shame a lot of the more negative articles didn't mention that detail, some made it sound like they saw finished scenes but looked fake solely because of the 48fps.

 

[Funky Papa]

They posted an even more in-depth article about the footage (with spoilers). One thing they mention that I didn't get from a lot of the other articles was that apparently there was a lot of unfinished green-screen in the footage shown...which explains a lot of the complaints that everything "looked like set". Shame a lot of the more negative articles didn't mention that detail, some made it sound like they saw finished scenes but looked fake solely because of the 48fps.

I'm glad to hear that. It would certainly explain the feeling of looking very plain and sett-y. I can totally see Jackson jumping the gun out of excitement and releasing half-baked footage instead of fully processed one. Well, live and learn.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

They posted an even more in-depth article about the footage (with spoilers). One thing they mention that I didn't get from a lot of the other articles was that apparently there was a lot of unfinished green-screen in the footage shown...which explains a lot of the complaints that everything "looked like set". Shame a lot of the more negative articles didn't mention that detail, some made it sound like they saw finished scenes but looked fake solely because of the 48fps.

Interesting backstory with the

Spoiler

Dúnedain.

Seems a pretty elegant way to explain the

Spoiler

Witch-King/Nazgul

plot point.

Guess that means Glorfindel will be omitted from Peter Jackson's Middle-earth pentalogy.

 

[strafer]

Peter Jackson Responds to Criticism of 48fps Filming in THE HOBBIT

“The 48fps is so jarring that I’m not sure casual moviegoers will enjoy it.”

“Nobody is going to stop. This technology is going to keep evolving.”

 

[StealthGoblin]

Sounds good. The Radagast stuff sounds nuts, though it should make for an interesting character. Witch King stuff is a tad worrying, but hopefully there is more to it than what has been divulged.

 

[Truant]

Peter Jackson Responds to Criticism of 48fps Filming in THE HOBBIT

First quote is not by Jackson.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

For anyone wondering what Tolkien may have thought of the film adaptation by Peter, letter 210 details his scathing attack on a Zimmerman's screenplay for an animated LOTR. Some of it could easily applied to Peter and co's adaptation.

http://www.e-reading.org.ua/bookreader.php/139008/The_Letters_of_J.R.R.Tolkien.pdf

 

[Zio]

For anyone wondering what Tolkien may have thought of the film adaptation by Peter, letter 210 details his scathing attack on a Zimmerman's screenplay for an animated LOTR. Some of it could easily applied to Peter and co's adaptation.

http://www.e-reading.org.ua/bookreader.php/139008/The_Letters_of_J.R.R.Tolkien.pdf

Thanks for sharing this PDF! Pretty cool stuff in there.

However, I don't really see any connection to Peter Jackson's films and the hideous mistakes Zimmerman made. Jackson kept staying true to the story a top priority. I've heard him say many times that they made decisions based on the relevance to the story of the Ringbearer and his quest.

Based on this letter, I'd be more inclined to think that Tolkien would have actually liked Jackson's work. There may be a few minor complaints here and there, but it seems that Jackson kept faithful to the story in a way that Tolkien would have appreciated. It even suggests that he would have been fine with the omission of the Tom Bombadil scene, a hot topic for all of us.

This Zimmerman guy seems like he missed some big points, and took the liberty to insert completely meaningless and lame events with complete disregard to the beauty of Tolkien's work. Doesn't sound like Jackson at all.

I wonder if the writers for the recent movies consulted these letters in any way. It seems like they may have because I think they did get a lot of things right.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Thanks for sharing this PDF! Pretty cool stuff in there.

However, I don't really see any connection to Peter Jackson's films and the hideous mistakes Zimmerman made. Jackson kept staying true to the story a top priority. I've heard him say many times that they made decisions based on the relevance to the story of the Ringbearer and his quest.

Based on this letter, I'd be more inclined to think that Tolkien would have actually liked Jackson's work. There may be a few minor complaints here and there, but it seems that Jackson kept faithful to the story in a way that Tolkien would have appreciated. It even suggests that he would have been fine with the omission of the Tom Bombadil scene, a hot topic for all of us.

This Zimmerman guy seems like he missed some big points, and took the liberty to insert completely meaningless and lame events with complete disregard to the beauty of Tolkien's work. Doesn't sound like Jackson at all.

I wonder if the writers for the recent movies consulted these letters in any way. It seems like they may have because I think they did get a lot of things right.

The screaching Nazgul and the depiction of the Balrog certainly would have irked Tolkien somewhat and the usual annoyances that purists have; Helm's Deep elves etc.

I'm sure Peter and co studied the published book with a fine-tooth comb to gain some inspiration for the trilogy, even if they couldn't directly use any of it.

 

[Zio]

The screaching Nazgul and the depiction of the Balrog certainly would have irked Tolkien somewhat and the usual annoyances that purists have; Helm's Deep elves etc.

I'm sure Peter and co studied the published book with a fine-tooth comb to gain some inspiration for the trilogy, even if they couldn't directly use any of it.

I remember Peter saying once that he would read the chapter of the scene they were filming every day before they began just to get in the right headspace.

I could have sworn the Nazgul had a high pitched scream. Wasn't that in the books? I haven't read them in a while, sadly.

and wasn't the depiction of the Balrog somewhat vague in the books? Are you referring to the legendary wings/no wings debate?

 

[Edmond Dantès]

I remember Peter saying once that he would read the chapter of the scene they were filming every day before they began just to get in the right headspace.

I could have sworn the Nazgul had a high pitched scream. Wasn't that in the books? I haven't read them in a while, sadly.

and wasn't the depiction of the Balrog somewhat vague in the books? Are you referring to the legendary wings/no wings debate?

I think he was referring to one particular scene in the Fellowship rather than the whole narrative regarding the screaming.

The wings/no wings debate indeed.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

Love this BTS pic from TTT.

 

[Aaron]

Tolkien would have likely had a problem with how young they cast Frodo. That alone changes the character a lot, especially in his relationship with Sam. The temptation of Faramir, the changes made to Saruman, removal of the Bog Wraiths... eh there's a ton of small changes in the movies. Hard to imagine he wouldn't have had issues with a number of them, and that's ignoring the big differences, like almost totally rewriting battles of Helm's Deep and before the white city. The more I think of it, the more significant changes I remember.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Tolkien would have likely had a problem with how young they cast Frodo. That alone changes the character a lot, especially in his relationship with Sam. The temptation of Faramir, the changes made to Saruman, removal of the Bog Wraiths... eh there's a ton of small changes in the movies. Hard to imagine he wouldn't have had issues with a number of them, and that's ignoring the big differences, like almost totally rewriting battles of Helm's Deep and before the white city. The more I think of it, the more significant changes I remember.

Yes indeed. A few examples:

Time is again contracted and hurried, with the effect of reducing the importance of the Quest. Gandalf does not say they will leave as soon as they can pack! Two months elapse. There is no need to say anything with a time-purport. The lapse of time should be indicated, if by no more than the change to winter in the scenery and trees.

Tolkien would have been quite annoyed at the time-lapse or lack of in the Fellowship when Gandalf goes off searching for more info.

Leaving the inn at night and running off into the dark is an impossible solution of the difficulties of presentation here (which I can see). It is the last thing that Aragorn would have done. It is based on a misconception of the Black Riders throughout, which I beg Z to reconsider. Their peril is almost entirely due to the unreasoning fear which they inspire (like ghosts). They have no great physical power against the fearless; but what they have, and the fear that they inspire, is enormously increased in darkness. The Witch-king, their leader, is more powerful in all ways than the others; but he must not yet be raised to the stature of Vol. III. There, put in command by Sauron, he is given an added demonic force. But even in the Battle of the Pelennor, the darkness had only
just broken.

The Bree scene would have annoyed Tolkien somewhat.

The Balrog never speaks or makes any vocal sound at all. Above all he does not laugh or sneer. .... Z may think that he knows more about Balrogs than I do, but he cannot expect me to agree with him.

Roaring Balrog on the Bridge Khazad-dum.

I do earnestly hope that in the assignment of actual speeches to the characters they will be represented as I have presented them: in style and sentiment. I should resent perversion of the characters (and do resent it, so far as it appears in this sketch) even more than the spoiling of the plot and scenery.

Faramir.


Etc etc.

 

[Loxley]

I'm curious how he would have felt about Arwen being made a much more prominent character in the films than she was in the books. Or I guess even smaller things like lines spoken by some characters in the books being given to other characters in the films (like Frodo's description of The Grey Havens being given to Gandalf or Faramir's nightmare about a great wave - a recurring nightmare that Tolkien himself had when he was a kid - being given to Eowyn).

I should really pick up that letters book, a lot of fascinating stuff in there.

 

[Little Old Man]

I remember ordering the books as a boy, this was a few months before the release of the FOTR in cinemas. I'm not sure if I read the book or saw the film first. Might have been I read a chapter or two, got confused and then saw the film before restarting. Then I remember being awfully confused with the 12 year or so gap between first seeing Gandalf and Frodo leaving the shire. Then moving to Buckland, the Old Forest, the Barrow Wrights. I wasn't sure where all that came from! I didn't understand too well that film adaptations are just that, and so changes are made!

I just thank the (Dark) lord that PJ didn't carry through with having Arwen at Helms Deep.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

I'm curious how he would have felt about Arwen being made a much more prominent character in the films than she was in the books. Or I guess even smaller things like lines spoken by some characters in the books being given to other characters in the films (like Frodo's description of The Grey Havens being given to Gandalf or Faramir's nightmare about a great wave - a recurring nightmare that Tolkien himself had when he was a kid - being given to Eowyn).

I should really pick up that letters book, a lot of fascinating stuff in there.

Letter 211 is particularly fascinating, especially this answer.

Question 4. I do not know the detail of clothing. I visualize with great clarity and detail scenery 'natural' objects, but not artefacts. Pauline Baynes drew her inspiration for F. Giles largely from mediaeval MS. drawings – except for the knights (who are a bit 'King-Arthurish')† the style seems to fit well enough. Except that males, especially in northern parts such as the Shire, would wear breeches, whether hidden by a cloak or long mantle, or merely accompanied by a tunic.

I have no doubt that in the area envisaged by my story (which is large) the 'dress' of various peoples, Men and others, was much diversified in the Third Age, according to climate, and inherited custom. As was our world, even if we only consider Europe and the Mediterranean and the very near 'East' (or South), before the victory in our time of the least lovely style of dress (especially for males and 'neuters') which recorded history reveals – a victory that is still going on, even among those who most hate the lands of its origin. The Rohirrim were not 'mediaeval', in our sense. The styles of the Bay eux Tapestry (made in England) fit them well enough, if one remembers that the kind of tennis-nets [the] soldiers seem to have on are only a clumsy conventional sign for chainmail of small rings.

The Númenóreans of Gondor were proud, peculiar, and archaic, and I think are best pictured in (say) Egyptian terms. In many ways they resembled 'Egyptians' – the love of, and power to construct, the gigantic and massive. And in their great interest in ancestry and in tombs. (But not of course in 'theology' : in which respect they were Hebraic and even more puritan – but this would take long to set out: to explain indeed why there is practically no oven 'religion',* or rather religious acts or places or ceremonies among the 'good' or anti-Sauron peoples in The Lord of the Rings.) I think the crown of Gondor (the S. Kingdom) was very tall, like that of Egypt, but with wings attached, not set straight back but at an angle.

The actual book has a small illustration of the crown and the production team were spot on with their version in ROTK.

Also, I had always pictured the Númenóreans as resembling Romans at the height of their power, not Egyptians. The letters are truly like goldmines.

 

[Edmond Dantès]

I remember ordering the books as a boy, this was a few months before the release of the FOTR in cinemas. I'm not sure if I read the book or saw the film first. Might have been I read a chapter or two, got confused and then saw the film before restarting. Then I remember being awfully confused with the 12 year or so gap between first seeing Gandalf and Frodo leaving the shire. Then moving to Buckland, the Old Forest, the Barrow Wrights. I wasn't sure where all that came from! I didn't understand too well that film adaptations are just that, and so changes are made!

I just thank the (Dark) lord that PJ didn't carry through with having Arwen at Helms Deep.

I wasn't much of a Tolkien scholar back then, but I do remember the XenArwen (likening Arwen to Xena) meme amongst Tolkien fans and purists and Liv Tyler actually been quite upset at some of the vitriol spouted towards her by the certain sections of the Tolkien community.

 

[Genesis Knight]

and Liv Tyler actually been quite upset at some of the vitriol spouted towards her by the certain sections of the Tolkien community.

She mentions this somewhere in the hours and hours of making-of footage on the extended DVDs.

 

[thefro]

Tolkien would have likely had a problem with how young they cast Frodo. That alone changes the character a lot, especially in his relationship with Sam.

Hobbits don't "come of age" until they turn 33, so Elijah Wood's casting was fine (particularly since they don't really mention the 17-year gap).

I always pictured 50 for Hobbits as being closer to 30 for humans.