Support NeoGAF

[llien]

Came across an article with an unusual take on things, think it's worth reading:

Here’s how the story goes: A young woman, who is given the identity-protecting name “Grace” in the story, was excited to encounter Ansari at a party in Los Angeles, and even though he initially brushed her off, when he saw that they both had the same kind of old-fashioned camera, he paid attention to her and got her number. He texted her when they both got back to New York asking if she wanted to go out, and she was so excited she spent a lot of time choosing her outfit and texting pictures of it to friends. They had a glass of wine at his apartment and then he rushed her though dinner at an expensive restaurant and brought her back to his apartment. Within minutes of returning, she was sitting on the kitchen counter and he was—apparently consensually—performing oral sex on her (here the older reader’s eyes widen, because this was hardly the first move in the “one night stands” of yesteryear), but then went on, per her account, to pressure her for sex in a variety of ways that were not honorable. Eventually, overcome by her emotions at the way the night was going, she told him, “You guys are all the fucking same” and left crying. I thought it was the most significant line in the story: this has happened to her many times before. What led her to believe that this time would be different?

Was Grace frozen, terrified, stuck? No. She tells us that she wanted something from Ansari and she was trying to figure out how to get it. She wanted affection, kindness, attention. Perhaps she hoped to maybe even become the famous man’s girlfriend. He wasn’t interested. What she felt afterward—rejected yet another time, by yet another man—was regret. And what she and the writer who told her story created was 3,000 words of revenge porn. The clinical detail in which the story is told is intended not to validate her account as much as it is to hurt and humiliate Ansari. Together, the two women may have destroyed Ansari’s career, which is now the punishment for every kind of male sexual misconduct, from the grotesque to the disappointing.

Twenty-four hours ago—this is the speed at which we are now operating—Aziz Ansari was a man whom many people admired and whose work, although very well paid, also performed a social good. He was the first exposure many young Americans had to a Muslim man who was aspirational, funny, immersed in the same culture that they are. Now he has been—in a professional sense—assassinated, on the basis of one woman’s anonymous account. Many of the college-educated white women who so vocally support this movement are entirely on her side. The feminist writer and speaker Jessica Valenti tweeted, “A lot of men will read that post about Aziz Ansari and see an everyday, reasonable sexual interaction. But part of what women are saying right now is that what the culture considers ‘normal’ sexual encounters are not working for us, and oftentimes harmful.”

I thought it would take a little longer for the hit squad of privileged young white women to open fire on brown-skinned men. I had assumed that, on the basis of intersectionality and all that, they’d stay laser focused on college-educated white men for another few months. But we’re at warp speed now, and the revolution—in many ways so good and so important—is starting to sweep up all sorts of people into its conflagration: the monstrous, the cruel, and the simply unlucky. Apparently there is a whole country full of young women who don’t know how to call a cab, and who have spent a lot of time picking out pretty outfits for dates they hoped would be nights to remember. They’re angry and temporarily powerful and last night they destroyed a man who didn’t deserve it.

Source (theatlantic.com)

 

[Dunki]

This whole thing is another sign how #metoo went far beyond it was intended to be and is now actually harmful to sexual liberation and revolution actual Feminists back then have fought for.

A lot of men will read that post about Aziz Ansari and see an everyday, reasonable sexual interaction. But part of what women are saying right now is that what the culture considers ‘normal’ sexual encounters are not working for us, and oftentimes harmful.”

And no Jessica Modern Femininsm is not the voice of women anymore. It has become a voice that hates men and does everything to ruin them. And you are part of this. Sadly on Social media this is a very loud minority. So glad modern Fmininsm is dying more and more these days.

And the last part is exactly what you need to do. Teach women how to cope with their lives. Show them how not to become snowflakes who needs to be protected teach and encourage them to follow their own mind and opinions. Stand up foryourself

 

[Razorback]

This is why we can't have nice things.

 

[OrionFalls]

If I’m reading this right, this is just a bitter woman who feels butthurt and thinks this belongs to the #MeToo movement? She consented, even wanted something, and is claiming misconduct because she didn’t get it?

 

[Rocket Number 22]

Disgusting.

Victim blaming of the highest order

 

[Relativ9]

If I’m reading this right, this is just a bitter woman who feels butthurt and thinks this belongs to the #MeToo movement? She consented, even wanted something, and is claiming misconduct because she didn’t get it?

Well considering he initiated contact the next day, thus signifying that it wasn't necessarily just a one night stand, and then her reply to that being the accusation of abuse (or whatever she's claiming, not really all that clear) I don't think the issue here is that she wanted something more and felt like he just used her for sex. She probably did really feel very uncomfortable and probably really didn't want to have sex with him the night before, but clearly, she didn't adequately communicate this. Some people are more observant and considerate in these matters, some people aren't, doesn't mean they're rapists. If her "none verbal cues" weren't sufficient, clearly she should have elevated it to verbal ones. Doesn't mean that it's her fault, but if a car is coming towards you and you have enough time to jump out of the way, but elect not to because "the car doesn't belong on the sidewalk", that's not really helping anyone.

 

[llien]

If I’m reading this right, this is just a bitter woman...

Well, they had brief oral sex (on both receiving and giving end) and striped off their cloth.
Then she said no, I don't want to do it.
They put on dress, watched TV together.

Then he kept putting fingers into her mouth, which she didn't like. After several persistent attempts, she quit.

Now, whether this is a sexual assault or just an awkward hook up, depends on the age of the reader, I guess.

Victim blaming of the highest order...

She argues that the only victim here is the accused.

 

[Dunki]

Well considering he initiated contact the next day, thus signifying that it wasn't necessarily just a one night stand, and then her reply to that being the accusation of abuse (or whatever she's claiming, not really all that clear) I don't think the issue here is that she wanted something more and felt like he just used her for sex. She probably did really feel very uncomfortable and probably really didn't want to have sex with him the night before, but clearly, she didn't adequately communicate this. Some people are more observant and considerate in these matters, some people aren't, doesn't mean they're rapists. If her "none verbal cues" weren't sufficient, clearly she should have elevated it to verbal ones. Doesn't mean that it's her fault, but if a car is coming towards you and you have enough time to jump out of the way, but elect not to because "the car doesn't belong on the sidewalk", that's not really helping anyone.

Yeah I agree with this. But the notion that this was used to totally destroy someone is really scary this should have been something between them he even tried to understand her afterwards. Missunderstandings always happen to weaponize them by an outdated ideology is sadly a result of our time and social media...

 

[Rocket Number 22]

She argues that the only victim here is the accused.

Yes, the author is victim blaming to try excuse Aziz for being rapey

 

[OrionFalls]

Yes, the author is victim blaming to try excuse Aziz for being rapey

Except he’s not being rapey.

She wanted a relationship. He just wanted sex. It was miscommunication.

 

[Rocket Number 22]

Except he’s not being rapey.

Cept he was

 

[OrionFalls]

Cept he was

Except he’s really fucking not.

 

[HarryKS]

How do we know this is not viral marketing for season 3?

 

[Relativ9]

Cept he was

Except he’s really fucking not.

How about you both try to argue your points of view instead of just restating them over and over? This is a forum after all...

 

[OrionFalls]

How about you both try to argue your points of view instead of just restating them over and over? This is a forum after all...

I’ve already given my reasoning. It reads to me that she wanted more out of this than what he did. He wanted sex (which she admitted she consented to) whereas she wanted a relationship. When he rejected her, she was hurt and ultimately sought revenge.

 

[Sapiens]

Aziz Ansari is like the male equivalent of Rachael Dratch. The guy is a super successful actor, but Yeah, it must be really hard for women to get into him, physically. She bailed because there was no attraction, but that should have been the end of it. Oh well.

 

[The Hermit]

I remember in an interview saying he was a feminist, and when I read about this I laughed for it's irony.

 

[Living the Dream]

Innocent until proven guilty. Y’all keep taking the woman’s side without any evidence. Shameful.

 

[Vicetrailia]

It's nowhere near rape, rapey, or whatever, it just wasn't a good match.

 

[Revolutionary]

All these #timesup male feminists apparently need to think about every single sexual encounter in their life, and make sure it can't be turned into a negative story, before putting on that pin.

Or, we can stop this "guilty until proven innocent" bs that's going on these days.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Aziz Ansari is like the male equivalent of Rachael Dratch. The guy is a super successful actor, but Yeah, it must be really hard for women to get into him, physically. She bailed because there was no attraction, but that should have been the end of it. Oh well.

It did disgust her, apparently going all the way south. She probably told everyone before going postal with it. Had a shitty ending and got cut off from a celeb...I mean.

I remember in an interview saying he was a feminist, and when I read about this I laughed for it's irony.

Imperfect ally. We can't be perfect. Doesn't mean he's not a feminist or doesn't support its wishes. You'll find a lot of men supporting everything but struggling with some aspects.

Innocent until proven guilty. Y’all keep taking the woman’s side without any evidence. Shameful.

This definitely happened and she didn't hide it from him, she told him the next day.

Btw, that article reads like MRA wet dream garbage, I couldn't get through half that damn thing. If you're getting news from something like that it's a problem; it's completely biased, interjects fiction and is manipulative. "Why did you think it would be different this time". I didn't know that all men are the same, and not individuals. Group us all together, thanks!

 

[llien]

I remember in an interview saying he was a feminist, and when I read about this I laughed for it's irony.

The accuser is said to have reported the allegations only after seeing him on "timesup" event.
Before that they exchanged messages and he apologized.

Y’all keep taking the woman’s side without any evidence.

Well, he didn't deny the encounter, it's about interpretations of what happened.

 

[OrionFalls]

Well, he didn't deny the encounter, it's about interpretations of what happened.

Exactly, and my interpretation of this is “Boohoo, I was rejected by a celeb after I had consensual sex with him. Waaaah, it’s not fair! I’m telling” and that’s that. It was consensual. The only thing that was denied was the relationship she wanted. There was no forced sex or rapey/creepy sexual assault. Just a butthurt woman seeking revenge after being rejected.

 

[Rocket Number 22]

Exactly, and my interpretation of this is “Boohoo, I was rejected by a celeb after I had consensual sex with him. Waaaah, it’s not fair! I’m telling” and that’s that. It was consensual. The only thing that was denied was the relationship she wanted. There was no forced sex or rapey/creepy sexual assault. Just a butthurt woman seeking revenge after being rejected.

where are you getting this relationship angle from? The guy even apologised after the girl told him he was a bit rapey/creepy/forceful....

 

[OrionFalls]

where are you getting this relationship angle from? The guy even apologised after the girl told him he was a bit rapey/creepy/forceful....

It says in the OP.

Good job on not reading.

 

[Relativ9]

It says in the OP.

Good job on not reading.

The article in the OP is highly presumptive though and not at all based on facts or investigation. I mean I agree this feels more like a misunderstanding then sexual assault, but let's sort fact from fiction here.

 

[Vicetrailia]

It says in the OP.

Good job on not reading.

This article is a hack job and is intended to make you think a certain way. You can throw it out, it interjects too much fiction. If you fall for it you will never understand the situation.

 

[OrionFalls]

The article in the OP is highly presumptive though and not at all based on facts or investigation. I mean I agree this feels more like a misunderstanding then sexual assault, but let's sort fact from fiction here.

This article is a hack job and is intended to make you think a certain way. You can throw it out, it interjects too much fiction. If you fall for it you will never understand the situation.

So, by your own admittance, we have no actual fact or claim that anything happened? So we’re debating...well, nothing.

 

[Mahadev]

Yes, the author is victim blaming to try excuse Aziz for being rapey

The writer carefully explains why Ansari is the victim here. Accusing people of being "rapey" without explaining why is a statement not an argument. Less statements based on buzzwords and more arguments please.

This article is a hack job and is intended to make you think a certain way. You can throw it out, it interjects too much fiction. If you fall for it you will never understand the situation.

Again, where's the argument in this post? You're just stating that the writer is wrong and that everyone doesn't understand.

 

[Vicetrailia]

So, by your own admittance, we have no actual fact or claim that anything happened? So we’re debating...well, nothing.

Again, where's the argument in this post? You're just stating that the writer is wrong and that everyone doesn't understand.

Go read a different article that is agenda free, unbiased, doesnt add spin, doesn't tell you what to think, and doesn't miss important details/misconstrue her account.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/babe.net/2018/01/13/aziz-ansari-28355/amp
https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxn...xual-assault-says-sex-was-consensual.amp.html

 

[OrionFalls]

Sorry, are we supposed to accept a website called Babe, and Fox News as legitimate, reputable sources?

 

[Vicetrailia]

Sorry, are we supposed to accept a website called Babe, and Fox News as legitimate, reputable sources?

If you don't like those, go find another one: BBC, CBS, Huffington Post, Time Magazine, Chicago Tribune and more, pick one.

 

[cubicle47b]

The "claw" thing is creepy.

 

[Rocket Number 22]

Sorry, are we supposed to accept a website called Babe, and Fox News as legitimate, reputable sources?

If you don't like those, go find another one: BBC, CBS, Huffington Post, Time Magazine, Chicago Tribune and more, pick one.

http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-42685796

She says he ignored or did not notice her signals that she did not want to have sex with him, and after several interactions which left her feeling "very uncomfortable" she left in a taxi in tears.
She said she later texted him to say he had ignored "clear non-verbal cues" and that he had responded at the time by saying: "Clearly, I misread things in the moment and I'm truly sorry."
'Surprised and concerned'
In a statement released through a representative, Ansari acknowledges that they went on a date and "ended up engaging in sexual activity, which by all indications was completely consensual".
He said the woman later told him in her text that "on further reflection, she felt uncomfortable".

 

[OrionFalls]

If you don't like those, go find another one: BBC, CBS, Huffington Post, Time Magazine, Chicago Tribune and more, pick one.

All the reports I’m reading are saying the same thing. She had sex with him, regretted it after realising he was in it for the sex, and made it in to something it isn’t. He shouldn’t have pressured her, but he didn’t exactly force her. She chose to engage in sexual activity with him, when she could’ve said no and walk out. Both are at fault here.

 

[WinterIsComing]

Seems absurd that to prevent shit like this you need to have a written confirmation that the other person wants to have sex with you. "Ok, let's do it, can you just sign here please?"

 

[Mahadev]

Go read a different article that is agenda free, unbiased, doesnt add spin, doesn't tell you what to think, and doesn't miss important details/misconstrue her account.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/babe.net/2018/01/13/aziz-ansari-28355/amp
https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxn...xual-assault-says-sex-was-consensual.amp.html

From the article you posted:

After arriving at his apartment in Manhattan on Monday evening, they exchanged small talk and drank wine. “It was white,” she said. “I didn’t get to choose and I prefer red, but it was white wine.”

I have no fucking idea why she thinks this is important to mention but it certainly sets the mood for the reader and not in a good way.

When Ansari told her he was going to grab a condom within minutes of their first kiss, Grace voiced her hesitation explicitly. “I said something like, ‘Whoa, let’s relax for a sec, let’s chill.’” She says he then resumed kissing her, briefly performed oral sex on her, and asked her to do the same thing to him. She did, but not for long. “It was really quick. Everything was pretty much touched and done within ten minutes of hooking up, except for actual sex.”

She asks him to slow things down and he slows things down.

Ansari also physically pulled her hand towards his penis multiple times throughout the night, from the time he first kissed her on the countertop onward. “He probably moved my hand to his dick five to seven times,” she said. “He really kept doing it after I moved it away.”

You mean like most men do? I like how she mentions details like this like they're a crime.

Throughout the course of her short time in the apartment, she says she used verbal and non-verbal cues to indicate how uncomfortable and distressed she was. “Most of my discomfort was expressed in me pulling away and mumbling. I know that my hand stopped moving at some points,” she said. “I stopped moving my lips and turned cold.”

Mumbling... Is this where we are now? Fyi pulling away is often construed as a sex game, anyone who has had enough sex can tell you that. The last sentence though is where Aziz should have asked if anything is wrong, but not everyone notices these things at the heat of the moment and I don't know what turned cold means to her.

Grace says she spent around five minutes in the bathroom, collecting herself in the mirror and splashing herself with water. Then she went back to Ansari. He asked her if she was okay. “I said I don’t want to feel forced because then I’ll hate you, and I’d rather not hate you,” she said.

She told babe that at first, she was happy with how he reacted. “He said, ‘Oh, of course, it’s only fun if we’re both having fun.’ The response was technically very sweet and acknowledging the fact that I was very uncomfortable. Verbally, in that moment, he acknowledged that I needed to take it slow. Then he said, ‘Let’s just chill over here on the couch.’”

So after being uncommunicative she finally expressed herself and he was fine with it.


So this where the standards are now for the MeToo movement? Don't be surprised if you lose all support from both men and many, many women then. This latest social media trial is fucking ridiculous.

 

[Croatoan]

Women who feel they have been assaulted need to go to the cops not social media. I tend to not believe anyone whose first instinct is to post on twitter and attempt to ruin someones career or life by trying them in the court of public opinion. Especially sense I know there exists an army of keyboard feminists who want to destroy any man that even remotely presents as an alpha. They troll through twitter all day looking for the next outrage to get a dopamine boost from with their vitriolic nonsense.

Go to the police and keep things under wraps while a real investigation is done; don't just go for your 15 seconds of fame.

 

[Vicetrailia]

All the reports I’m reading are saying the same thing. She had sex with him, regretted it after realising he was in it for the sex, and made it in to something it isn’t. He shouldn’t have pressured her, but he didn’t exactly force her. She chose to engage in sexual activity with him, when she could’ve said no and walk out. Both are at fault here.

Close enough, now look at the contrast between this article and every other source. This one had an agenda, versus others that plainly go over the facts. This article can't be your basis for understanding this whole thing. Really it's not worth your time.

"Within minutes of returning, she was sitting on the kitchen counter and he was—apparently consensually—performing oral sex on her (here the older reader’s eyes widen, because this was hardly the first move in the “one night stands” of yesteryear), but then went on, per her account, to pressure her for sex in a variety of ways that were not honorable. Eventually, overcome by her emotions at the way the night was going, she told him, “You guys are all the fucking same” and left crying."

Versus a better detail from a different article.

He said something along the lines of, ‘How about you hop up and take a seat?’” Within moments, he was kissing her. “In a second, his hand was on my breast.” Then he was undressing her, then he undressed himself. She remembers feeling uncomfortable at how quickly things escalated.

When Ansari told her he was going to grab a condom within minutes of their first kiss, Grace voiced her hesitation explicitly. “I said something like, ‘Whoa, let’s relax for a sec, let’s chill.’” She says he then resumed kissing her, briefly performed oral sex on her, and asked her to do the same thing to him. She did, but not for long. “It was really quick. Everything was pretty much touched and done within ten minutes of hooking up, except for actual sex.”"

 

[///PATRIOT]

Close enough, now look at the contrast between this article and every other source. This one had an agenda, versus others that plainly go over the facts. This article can't be your basis for understanding this whole thing. Really it's not worth your time.

"Within minutes of returning, she was sitting on the kitchen counter and he was—apparently consensually—performing oral sex on her (here the older reader’s eyes widen, because this was hardly the first move in the “one night stands” of yesteryear), but then went on, per her account, to pressure her for sex in a variety of ways that were not honorable. Eventually, overcome by her emotions at the way the night was going, she told him, “You guys are all the fucking same” and left crying."

Versus a better detail from a different article.

He said something along the lines of, ‘How about you hop up and take a seat?’” Within moments, he was kissing her. “In a second, his hand was on my breast.” Then he was undressing her, then he undressed himself. She remembers feeling uncomfortable at how quickly things escalated.

When Ansari told her he was going to grab a condom within minutes of their first kiss, Grace voiced her hesitation explicitly. “I said something like, ‘Whoa, let’s relax for a sec, let’s chill.’” She says he then resumed kissing her, briefly performed oral sex on her, and asked her to do the same thing to him. She did, but not for long. “It was really quick. Everything was pretty much touched and done within ten minutes of hooking up, except for actual sex.”"

Can we list what was consensual, like kisses, oral sex but intercourse was not consual.
or at what point of the night things turned from consensual to not consensual.

 

[///PATRIOT]

nevermind.

 

[Dunki]

Another pretty good article about the movement

Ansari was not accused of sexual violence. He couldn’t be. He hadn’t done anything resembling sexual violence. Instead, he was accused of ‘sexual misconduct’. This phrase is very telling about the potential long-term impact of #MeToo. Like the crime of ‘misconduct in public office’, ‘sexual misconduct’ suggests there is an objectively agreed set of standards for sexual partners to adhere to.

But of course, such a standard does not exist when it comes to sex. Sexual interaction is a deeply subjective negotiation between two people. Women and men will negotiate this standard in different ways. But supporters of #MeToo are using the spectre of sexual violence to imagine such a standard into existence. In doing so, not only do they purport to speak for all women, as if they know what is best for women in their sex lives, but they also actively encourage women to feel victimised by their sexual encounters.

People claim #MeToo has helped in the fight against sexual violence. This is nonsense. The elision of bad sex and sexual violence helps no one. A big part of feminist scholarship in the 1970s and 1980s was about separating sexual violence from sex and sexual desire

AZIZ ANSARI: BAD SEX IS NOT A CRIME

 

[deadscreensky]

It's an interesting article, though the author seems to be (deliberately?) ignoring the obvious point that she's judging the girl here as the one at fault just as all those 70s magazines told her to. But there's some real nuance to her argument, about how the different cultural standards people approach these issues with are the crux of so much debate and teeth-gnashing.

An important question is whether this will actually destroy Ansari's career. I think right now "no" is a pretty safe bet. There might be a bunch of people on the internet getting freaked out, but at this point in time you should probably be a little more careful before trying to pretend that this means anything universal. Most men and women (including "modern feminists", jesus) aren't going to look at this as anything other than bad sex.

But the finger thing does sound pretty weird.

 

[Dunki]

An important question is whether this will actually destroy Ansari's career. I think right now "no" is a pretty safe bet. There might be a bunch of people on the internet getting freaked out, but at this point in time you should probably be a little more careful before trying to pretend that this means anything universal. Most men and women (including "modern feminists", jesus) aren't going to look at this as anything other than bad sex.

But they try everything to destroy hsis whole life and people who are not agreeing as well *reset* hust...
As for the modern Feminist ones. I think you need to take a quick spcial media look at modern feminists or what they call leader of it. It is quite the opposite. And these are also the ones who hijacked the #metoo movement for their radical views.

 

[deadscreensky]

But they try everything to destroy hsis whole life and people who are not agreeing as well *reset* hust...
As for the modern Feminist ones. I think you need to take a quick spcial media look at modern feminists or what they call leader of it. It is quite the opposite. And these are also the ones who hijacked the #metoo movement for their radical views.

Can I level with you? Anytime I see somebody deride all of feminism as some evil that needs to be stamped out, I just assume they're probably a bad person. (Or maybe extremely ignorant; when I was a stupid teenager I probably said similar garbage.) It still boggles my mind that you can somehow see all these women (and occasionally men) coming out and talking about abuse they've suffered and then go "Nope, we clearly can get rid of this modern feminism thing because sometimes it starts to go too far!" You're not saying it needs a corrective, you're not saying it should be a little more conservative, you're saying it needs to die and that's the best solution. How lacking in empathy must you be, how frightened and paranoid, to have that be your key takeaway?

You exaggerate all of this stuff to such an absurd degree, it's impossible to actually discuss. Think about what it actually means for somebody to "try everything to destroy [someone's] whole life." That probably doesn't stop at posting some anonymous article on a website that only gets a few million visitors a month. And that seems to be the main thing you keep ignoring about #MeToo: people have always publicly said unfair shit about other people. This isn't some new scourge sweeping the media. People are falsely or unfairly accused of things all of the time. And because of that most human beings take a lot of these fringe statements with a large grain of salt. I'm sure Ansari will lose a few fans from this, and that's too bad. But if nothing else surfaces he'll absolutely be fine, just like Richard Gere still managed to find work after the whole gerbil thing. As I've mentioned before, plenty of legitimate predators are still completely untouched and wildly successful -- even credible accusations often amount to absolutely nothing. Somebody saying bad things about you on the internet isn't some death sentence.

 

[llien]

Go read a different article that is agenda free, unbiased, doesnt add spin, doesn't tell you what to think, and doesn't miss important details/misconstrue her account.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/babe.net/2018/01/13/aziz-ansari-28355/amp
https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxn...xual-assault-says-sex-was-consensual.amp.html

Babe article is poorly written, with no sense of timeline of events. Didn't have time to check the second one.

 

[OrionFalls]

Babe article is poorly written, with no sense of timeline of events. Didn't have time to check the second one.

It's Fox News, so I wouldn't bother.

 

[caffeware]

Just download the sexual agreement contract app.

 

[Dunki]

Can I level with you? Anytime I see somebody deride all of feminism as some evil that needs to be stamped out, I just assume they're probably a bad person. (Or maybe extremely ignorant; when I was a stupid teenager I probably said similar garbage.) It still boggles my mind that you can somehow see all these women (and occasionally men) coming out and talking about abuse they've suffered and then go "Nope, we clearly can get rid of this modern feminism thing because sometimes it starts to go too far!" You're not saying it needs a corrective, you're not saying it should be a little more conservative, you're saying it needs to die and that's the best solution. How lacking in empathy must you be, how frightened and paranoid, to have that be your key takeaway?

You exaggerate all of this stuff to such an absurd degree, it's impossible to actually discuss. Think about what it actually means for somebody to "try everything to destroy [someone's] whole life." That probably doesn't stop at posting some anonymous article on a website that only gets a few million visitors a month. And that seems to be the main thing you keep ignoring about #MeToo: people have always publicly said unfair shit about other people. This isn't some new scourge sweeping the media. People are falsely or unfairly accused of things all of the time. And because of that most human beings take a lot of these fringe statements with a large grain of salt. I'm sure Ansari will lose a few fans from this, and that's too bad. But if nothing else surfaces he'll absolutely be fine, just like Richard Gere still managed to find work after the whole gerbil thing. As I've mentioned before, plenty of legitimate predators are still completely untouched and wildly successful -- even credible accusations often amount to absolutely nothing. Somebody saying bad things about you on the internet isn't some death sentence.

I am talking here about modern Feminism not all Feminism. That is not all of feminism and as someone who was also sexual mollested as a child by my own cousin I am not going to blame victims who actually have to suffer. Quite the opposite. I think its rather insulting to politicize such a movement like modern Feminism did. It was a fantastic when it wa created but soon afterwards it was hijacked by this dying ideology (And yes it is dying since less and less people identify as Feminist because of these crazy people). I posted some of these so called modern feminist leaders reactions to #metoo and I am sorry I can not defend this.

If you want to take a look at it: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/cath...ce-the-metoo-movement.1460493/#post-253158435

Also the intend by these people is clearly to destroy everything he has and hopefully this will not happen since these people living in a total different reality. And as you said plenty of real predators and by ridicule this movement by tands like this they will also have a much higher chance to get away. This hijacking hurts everyone involved and in the end it will protect the ones who really deserve this.

 

[Damerman]

me too and the nuance of sex culture are two separate things in my mind. Aziz Ansari's actions are a problem that need to be addressed in sex culture, doesn't make him a predator that the me too movement sought to condemn.