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[Pejo]

Just download the sexual agreement contract app.

Wasn't Sweden un-ironically working on something like this?

Anyways, I'm not sure where I read it, but I read a good point that cases like these are exactly what Weinstein and ilk want.

-It takes the light off of them, since they're mostly backroom dealers and don't have the star power of the current accused stars
-It shows the scale of people pushing the movement too far, and detracts from the actual awful shit that they've (Weinstein) done by replacing rape/underage prostitutes with unwelcome hugs and the bullshit in this story
-It causes people that otherwise support the movement to question their support and realize it's gone too far

It's really a shame, but I think we saw a similar problem with BLM earlier last year. There's no leadership behind the movement, and it really can mess up the message, despite being really valid and really important.

 

[BANGS]

Chicky chicky parm parm...

 

[Grinchy]

That 15 minutes of MeToo fame must be really tempting. We saw it happen to the owner of this site, too.

"I was interested in the moment but then later on when women were getting internet attention, I remembered I was actually sexually assaulted instead."

 

[Kadayi]

It kind of reads like Aziz being super pushy, whereas clearly the girl concerned wanted to take things a bit more sedate.

 

[AaronB]

Came across an article with an unusual take on things, think it's worth reading:
I thought it would take a little longer for the hit squad of privileged young white women to open fire on brown-skinned men. I had assumed that, on the basis of intersectionality and all that, they’d stay laser focused on college-educated white men for another few months. But we’re at warp speed now, and the revolution—in many ways so good and so important—is starting to sweep up all sorts of people into its conflagration: the monstrous, the cruel, and the simply unlucky.
Source (theatlantic.com)

I thought this was striking. It's a bit of a dilemma - intersectionality desperately wants the villains to be privileged white men (see the Duke lacrosse fiasco, for example), but not all of them are villains, and clearly some of the villains are within other protected groups. Practically everyone could be happy with hating on Weinstein, but it was inevitable that spreading accusations would hit other targets. This leads to a few choices: you can pick a side. I've seen all sides argued, from "Feminism needs to stay focused on women's issues" or "Blacks are the real oppressed group" to "Analysis inspired by Marx's view on class have lost focus on the true conflict - oppression of the working classes." Or you can do your best to ignore wrongdoing by anyone but white males, and accuse anyone who points out these problems of whataboutism - again showing everyone who doesn't already agree with you that you are picking and choosing only cases that fit your agenda. It's a real problem, because there are significant issues that affect women, and POC, and people of lower socioeconomic status - they just aren't identical.

I'm disturbed by how Aziz Ansari behaved, but it seems to be short of criminal wrongdoing. Still, looking at the defenses being offered for him, I can't help but feel that people saying the same things in defense of a white male (or a non-liberal) used to get dog-piled on.

 

[TTOOLL]

The thing I know is that I'm not changing my avatar and I want another season of Master of None.

 

[Astral Dog]

Disgusting man glad the people didn't ignore this case there were many, a lot of gross details. And honestly after searching that tv series he makes it sounds kind of self masturbatory

 

[Musky_Cheese]

Disgusting man glad the people didn't ignore this case there were many, a lot of gross details. And honestly after searching that tv series he makes it sounds kind of self masturbatory

I don’t see the story the same way you did

And since 2 people can read the same written words and come to very different conclusions, it seems reasonable that someone may not have understood non verbal hints. Say no.

Had she said no then I’d be right there with you on this. It’s obvious that the communication wasn’t there. He seemed blinded sided based on the communication the next day.

This type of communication would not be excepted in other situations. If you walked into a fast food restaurant, non verbally ordering a Big Mac and large fry would cause confusion. I would think that protecting ones body would warrant better communication.

Off this topic it’s nice that we can have a civilized discussion on a topic like this. Those folks who left really were the problem here. Gaf was going to die if they continued to be here.

 

[Deleted member 713885]

Everyone knows about LMR (Last Minute Resistance)
Sure, if they want to leave, you let them, but aside from that you keep pushing.

99.9% of women wont initiate sex. They will often play coy.
Most want it but are bogged down with "If I give in will he stop talking to me? Will I be labeled a slut?" Etc..

Its basically like getting them drunk on being horny.

 

[Soleil rouge]

I bet she wouldn't have a problem with anything that happened that night had she been with an attractive celebrity instead of Aziz.

 

[Deleted member 1235]

The "claw" thing is creepy.

honestly it just sounds like a guy who learned his moves from porn and ‘what the fuck are you doing’ would have been an appropriate thing to say right there to shut it down.

please dont accuse me of victim blaming because i dont believe that a bad sexual experience has a victim.

also the vivid details of the sex were obviously written to shock, its not even that wild, they went down on each other, he apparently wanted ‘oh yeah baby wet those fingers’ so he could finger her like a sewing machine, she got weirded out and left.

if weinstein is number 1, this sound like around number 10 on the list with louis CK ranking like a 5 or so

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

All I got from this whole Aziz story is that Aziz just wanted to fuck while she wanted something more intimate. They never got on the same page so she left, end of story.

 

[Night.Ninja]

She's just upset he didn't want to make her the wife and only wanted sex.

Hope he manages to bounce back.

 

[Dunki]

Another take from the Washington post

But another, larger reason has to do with the fact that this not only harms the #MeToo narrative writ large, it totally derails any future stories about Ansari that might come out. Every piece about him and potential misconduct, unless it’s truly egregious, will be viewed through the lens of Grace’s story: of one unhappy encounter detailed at great and grotesque length by a disappointed date.

The irony of all this is that, while Ansari’s story went viral, another, more important one got lost in the news cycle. Actress Eliza Dushku, writing on her Facebook page, accused a then-36-year-old stunt coordinator of molesting her at the age of 12. It’s a horrifying story, every parent’s worst nightmare — and an actual crime, an actual abuse of power and trust. These are the sorts of tales people interested in clearing Hollywood of abuse should be telling. This is the best way to promulgate the story line.

Babe’s Aziz Ansari piece was a gift to anyone who wants to derail #MeToo

 

[OrionFalls]

This #MeToo stuff is doing more harm than good. I’m all for catching the real predators - Spacey, Weinstein, etc - but this is not the way to do it. It started out fine, but it’s turned to chaos.

 

[Tapioca]

If dudes want a random hookup then they should just flat out say so or get an escort.

Also, who wants someones fingers in their mouth? Fingers are disgusting. Not sexual at all. He is bad at sex.

 

[Dunki]

Another great one. seems like news site are fed up with this bullshit

Aziz Ansari Is Guilty. Of Not Being a Mind Reader.

There is a useful term for what Grace experienced on her night with Mr. Ansari. It’s called “bad sex.” It sucks.

The feminist answer is to push for a culture in which boys and young men are taught that sex does not have to be pursued like they’re in a porn film, and one in which girls and young women are empowered to be bolder, braver and louder about what they want. The insidious attempt by some women to criminalize awkward, gross and entitled sex takes women back to the days of smelling salts and fainting couches. That’s somewhere I, for one, don’t want to go

 

[Tapioca]

Everyone knows about LMR (Last Minute Resistance)
Sure, if they want to leave, you let them, but aside from that you keep pushing.

99.9% of women wont initiate sex. They will often play coy.
Most want it but are bogged down with "If I give in will he stop talking to me? Will I be labeled a slut?" Etc..

Its basically like getting them drunk on being horny.

Damn, it must suck to be ugly.

Don't cry too hard when you catch a rape case.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

Looks like Aziz has the media mafia on his side.

 

[Kard8p3]

Wow. Disgusting that anyone would defend him, what has this site become?

• Goes to get condom, she says "Hold on, let's chill" He immediately start kissing, goes down on her, and tells her to do the same.
• Multiple instances of moving her hands to his penis, after multiple moving away. (unclear how many times this was and when)
• "Where do you want me to fuck you" "Next time" Pours her a glass of wine to make into a "next time"
• She went to the bathroom, comes out and says she doesn't want to be forced into anything. They chill on couch, he tells her to look over and there's his penis.
• Takes her to a mirror. She verbally says No this time, and he suggests handing out with clothes on. Then while watching TV, kissed her, fingered her throat, put his fingers down her pants.
• Tells him all guys are the same, directly turns to address him, he then kisses her.
• She gets up to leave, he's still pushing kisses on her.

 

[Musky_Cheese]

Wow. Disgusting that anyone would defend him, what has this site become?

Your lists seems to be incomplete. I see nothing about the the 3 acts of oral sex. Or are we only listing the cues that support the victim?

 

[mashoutposse]

Your lists seems to be incomplete. I see nothing about the the 3 acts of oral sex. Or are we only listing the cues that support the victim?

Absolutely right.

After his penis has been in her mouth consensually, they're rounding 3rd base and heading home. Complaining about seeing it again and him getting her to touch it again especially when she relied on him picking up on "non-verbal cues" to stop seems unfair to him.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Another great one. seems like news site are fed up with this bullshit

Aziz Ansari Is Guilty. Of Not Being a Mind Reader.

This is an opinion piece, so it doesn't represent the site in the way an article would. But I definitely don't agree with that Huffington Post article, otherwise it's like going back to a time when no one listened to women about sexual assault, especially at work.

 

[Rocket Number 22]

So Liam Neeson gets torn a new arsehole for only saying that these meetoo things are a witch hunt but an actual guy who has accusations against him is getting a free pass and having the media attack the accuser....

This feels like how the left and media are always on the defense for immigrants in Europe..... I wonder if it was Aziz who made the witch hunt comment and Neeson with the accusation if it would be different

 

[OrionFalls]

If the guy hasn’t done anything, absolutely.

 

[DiscoJer]

This #MeToo stuff is doing more harm than good. I’m all for catching the real predators - Spacey, Weinstein, etc - but this is not the way to do it. It started out fine, but it’s turned to chaos.

Well, it certainly seems to have taken the air out of the Eliza Dushku story, where he was assaulted when she was 12 by the stunt coordinator on True Lies

 

[Doctor Manhattan]

Off this topic it’s nice that we can have a civilized discussion on a topic like this. Those folks who left really were the problem here. Gaf was going to die if they continued to be here.

Reading the related thread on that site gives me headache. To majority of them your are either the Satan or the Jesus, there is no middle ground. And the mods are not trying to keep the conversation civil, they actively try to shut down anyone saying anything other than shitting on the accused. Saying maybe this was more of an awkward date than a rape story warrants you with a warning!

 

[llien]

Damn, it must suck to be ugly.

What on earth?

Disgusting that anyone would defend him...

It would help, if you would check actual events, not the misleading list that you have quoted.

 

[black_13]

Yea he came off as a little pushy but it just sounds like a bad date and nothing else. I certainly know the feeling of going on a date and thinking the other person is interested in intercourse when they aren't or they change their mind. I'm not a mind reader so it takes a clear no for me to get it.

If you think Aziz deserves backlash for this then might as well lock me and a good majority of people up. Just seems to me now that the #metoo movement is dying down, some women are just looking for a past experience to come up with so they get in on the movement before it's too late.

 

[Dunki]

Wow. Disgusting that anyone would defend him, what has this site become?

Here is the problem with this.

First of all it was a sexdate and in the first 10 minutes she went naked and it was totally fine. And yes Consent could be removed at anytime. However there is the problem that he may have not even noticed her being uncomfortable He even said so in the message afterwards. And most importantly he also did understand her message the next day. It was a bad sexdate and yes Aziz is bad at sex and can not read signs but thas it. IT was a misunderstanding that was politicized by the usual people who hate men in general.

 

[Sarkozix le Gaulois]

So she puts his dick in her mouth, and THEN she says no ?

Wow.

Dear womans, stop idolizing celebreties, or dont complain if all they want from you is sex

 

[black_13]

So she puts his dick in her mouth, and THEN she says no ?

Wow.

Dear womans, stop idolizing celebreties, or dont complain if all they want from you is sex

I totally missed that part. She gave him oral and vice versa within minutes of them entering his apartment and then she changes her mind and complains he didn't get her non-verbal cues that she wasn't interested? What the fuck kind of abuse is that? This right here should've closed the case long ago. Can't believe this has gotten this big when it never should've been getting any attention in the first place.

 

[caffeware]

I'm sorry, but she always had the option to leave. Not excuses.

To me it seems they were drunk af. And as time went on, she sober up a started resenting her decisions.

 

[mid83]

It's just nuts to me that this story has gotten the amount of attention it has. It completely undermines actual cases of sexual assualt and abuse. Was Ansari a bit creepy and pushy in his approach? Yes. I also don't doubt that the girl started the feel akward at some point, but once that happens, it's on her to be direct that she feels uncomfortable, and either verbalize it or get out of the situation. That goes for anybody, male or female, who feels that way in a sexual situation. Non verbal cues are not enough. Not everybody will pick up on them, and different people have different non verbal cues they may use. Plus, plenty of women play coy at first. If you feel like you don't want to do something, then say so.

 

[Musky_Cheese]

Reading the related thread on that site gives me headache. To majority of them your are either the Satan or the Jesus, there is no middle ground. And the mods are not trying to keep the conversation civil, they actively try to shut down anyone saying anything other than shitting on the accused. Saying maybe this was more of an awkward date than a rape story warrants you with a warning!

Pretty sure there is a mod warning on the first page saying if you ask why she didn’t leave, you would face disciplinary action.

Assuming this was a story of assault, victim blaming would be you shouldn’t have went to his apartment. It’s not victim blaming to ask honest questions about actions from both parties. Asking why you didn’t say no or leave his apartment when there is no accusation of restraint or threats made. And asking those questions doesn’t disqualify Aziz from blame.

It would be irresponsible and gross to not ask all reasonable questions considering his career maybe on the line here.

 

[ruslandgaga]

So Liam Neeson gets torn a new arsehole for only saying that these meetoo things are a witch hunt but an actual guy who has accusations against him is getting a free pass and having the media attack the accuser....

This feels like how the left and media are always on the defense for immigrants in Europe..... I wonder if it was Aziz who made the witch hunt comment and Neeson with the accusation if it would be different

What a fucking load of racist bullshit. Browns have it good, huh? Fuck off

 

[Dunki]

Pretty sure there is a mod warning on the first page saying if you ask why she didn’t leave, you would face disciplinary action.

.

It went worse. Everything who does not see it as sexual assault and is writing it in there would be banned. Later after more and more people have backlashed against the whole Aziz accusation they straight up closed it. Same with the Quantic dream thread. Everyone who disagrees with the Journalist or Le monde will be banned. It went to shit reall fast there.

 

[LizardSnob]

Wow. Disgusting that anyone would defend him, what has this site become?

Yeah it's been months since I've been here and it's a little horrifying tbh.

 

[LizardSnob]

I certainly know the feeling of going on a date and thinking the other person is interested in intercourse when they aren't or they change their mind. I'm not a mind reader so it takes a clear no for me to get it.

How about a clear "yes"?

 

[OrionFalls]

Yeah it's been months since I've been here and it's a little horrifying tbh.

How dare we defend a man who didn't rape, molest, or sexually assault a woman in any shape or form.

I think you belong on the 'other' forum.

 

[LizardSnob]

How dare we defend a man who didn't rape, molest, or sexually assault a woman in any shape or form.

I think you belong on the 'other' forum.

Lol, ok Orion.

 

[Dunki]

Yeah it's been months since I've been here and it's a little horrifying tbh.

How? Even famous feminists are going against this. This is the best open letter for this whole thing

 

[Relativ9]

It went worse. Everything who does not see it as sexual assault and is writing it in there would be banned. Later after more and more people have backlashed against the whole Aziz accusation they straight up closed it. Same with the Quantic dream thread. Everyone who disagrees with the Journalist or Le monde will be banned. It went to shit reall fast there.

Your comment got me curious so I went and found the thread. I mean I'm not sure what the policy here is about showing quotes from what's going on over there, but this was just too unbelievable, I mean his comment was a bit dumb, but to be warned for it?

++++++++++++++

Warning then comments:

• User warned: downplaying sexual assault. People are disgusted because of the lack of clear consent, not because "describing sex is icky".

"Any clinical explanation about what goes on behind closed doors during foreplay will sound terrible. While I've never done the fingers in the mouth thing (maybe once or twice), if the other party were to describe what I was doing, it'd sound disgusting too."​

And then the same user a few posts later:

• User was Warned: Address Moderation issues via PM or Report

Mod who warned me should warn themselves too with what they wrote in a previous thread.​

​

Morrigan said: ↑​

There's no excusing sexual abuse, but describing what was happening in 70's culture isn't the same as excusing rape. Let's all keep a cool head and remain civil about this sensitive topic. Thanks.​

I'm sticking with food topics from now on.​

​

++++++++++++++++

Incredible.​

 

[Musky_Cheese]

Yeah it's been months since I've been here and it's a little horrifying tbh.

Well good news. There’s another site that sees it your way. In fact they silence and ban anyone who even slightly disagrees.

Saying he didn’t commit rape or assault isn’t defending Aziz. It’s stating the facts. Asking why she didn’t communicate like a adult is expected isn’t victim blaming. And saying Aziz didn’t act like a proper human being seems on point... but not a rapist.

 

[BANGS]

How about a clear "yes"?

Why don't they get a notarized contract while they're at it? Sex is supposed to be spontaneous, fun, and exciting. You don't ask permission each time you stick sometime somewhere... you say no if a line is crossed...

 

[llien]

Saying he didn’t commit rape or assault isn’t defending Aziz. It’s stating the facts.

Well, the facts are "after brief oral sex encounter, he put fingers into her mouth, which she didn't like".
Whether that qualifies as sexual assault is in the eyes of the beholder, in my humble opinion, forcing opinions upon users via moderation or personal attacks is wrong.

 

[Musky_Cheese]

Why don't they get a notarized contract while they're at it? Sex is supposed to be spontaneous, fun, and exciting. You don't ask permission each time you stick sometime somewhere... you say no if a line is crossed...

I’m not sure why people expect clear communication from Aziz to ask is this ok, are you sure, are you really sure... but have no expectations for “Grace” to communicate verbally at all.

 

[BANGS]

Well, the facts are "after brief oral sex encounter, he put fingers into her mouth, which she didn't like".
Whether that qualifies as sexual assault is in the eyes of the beholder

No, it's not sexual assault. This is not up for debate. Sexual assault would have been if she communicated that she didn't like it, and he kept doing it anyway...

 

[Rocket Number 22]

What a fucking load of racist bullshit. Browns have it good, huh? Fuck off

First of all, there is nothing racist in my post, muslim isnt a race my darling and they are not all "browns" as you so put it, showing your own ignorance there a bit arnt you? And please point out anywhere were i have said "browns" have it good? Oh wait you can't because you are projecting and looking to peddle professional outrage.

Secondly, the owner of this very sight was HIT with basically the same bullshit yet he was cut no slack, NOR WAS SO MANY OTHERS. pitchforks first. But somehow this clown Aziz gets a pass...

Take a long hard look in the mirror before spouting off hate and profanities

 

[Dunki]

Well, the facts are "after brief oral sex encounter, he put fingers into her mouth, which she didn't like".
Whether that qualifies as sexual assault is in the eyes of the beholder, in my humble opinion, forcing opinions upon users via moderation or personal attacks is wrong.

I personally do not think its sexual assault just someone bad at reading peoples mind and bad at sex. But as you said opinions are opinions and should never be forced upon. So I am really glad people can talk here freely without attack personally.

Secondly, the owner of this very sight was HIT with basically the same bullshit yet he was cut no slack, NOR WAS SO MANY OTHERS. pitchforks first. But somehow this clown Aziz gets a pass...

He does not get a pass either on the other site. I personally would have never accused Evilore of sexual assault even I do not like him. I would call it in the same region. The other thing years ago with the butt grapping was way worse IMO.