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The King Of Fighters XIII Hype
- Thread starter Fersis
- Start date
The Take Out Bandit
Member
V_Arnold said:
Hell yeah it is!
You're insane.
Comparing apples to oranges.
While I will agree that saying 2D > 3D is akin to saying illustration > sculpture; the point is they are both legitimate art forms. I wouldn't want illustration to go away, and I wouldn't want sculpting to go away. That said, I'd love to see the tradition of 2D gaming continue despite what every voice out there says.
I'll put it out there that SF4 "fixed" a non-problem. The Capcom fighters didn't stop selling because they were 2D sprites. They stopped selling because gamers tastes changed and Capcom / SNK couldn't be bothered to release online fighters for PS2, and also Xbox (although Xbox got more than the PS2 did in the West). So folks pinning the "return of fighting games" on the polygon are fucking high.
Fighting games are relevant again thanks to online play.
You're nuts if you look at KoF12 and say it looks like garbage compared to old KoF games. Ignoring stylistic preferences (KoF12's more pronounced anime / cartoon visuals, to past KoF's more subdued visuals) KoF12 is a gorgeous KoF game. This is the first time in ages SNK has updated their sprites.
Comparing it to other 2D games - well honestly, what's going on in 2D gaming these days on consoles outside of BlazBlue and KoF12 and whatever comes out on the NDS like Castlevania?
Not a whole hell of a lot.
HDR doesn't even qualify as it doesn't attempt to match modern 2D fighting game animation schemes, and I don't fault them for it; because they set out to make that sort of game with a fugly coat of paint on it.
KoF12 visuals are a fine evolution of sprite work, even if it is carefully manipulated polygon models, it looks amazing.
So stop being a jackanape and comparing apples to oranges. All you're demonstrating is an acute lack of appreciation for sprite art.
SAB CA said:
To be fair, neither does Capcom. Which is why they hired Dimps to make SF4 for them.
Swittcher said:
Regulation A did own and has a better roster, so I agree! :lol
Dave Long said:
It does. But it also has a vastly incomplete feel to it and shitty online. And without any online play to go with, I'd rather play KOF '98 UM and 2002 UM instead. Much better games.
arstal said:
Ash's play style is great, sure. But we're talking about his design, which is fruity-horrific. I'll take a gi-wearing dork over the fruity-freckled shemale any day.
The Take Out Bandit
Member
Lyte Edge said:
Lyte Edge said:
I'm hating the SF4 artstyle and 3D models? Yes I am, yet that hasn't stop me from playing it at all. Is one of the fighters I play the most atm, I just don't like half of the outfits and some of the character models look like crap, and I'm not the only one thinking that. :lol
The Take Out Bandit
Member
-DarKaoZ- said:
Unfortunately we're in the minority around here. :\
Also worth noting that all the females in SF4 look god damn hideous.
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
-DarKaoZ- said:And instead we got this:
:lol
Seriously, SF4 has some of the worse 2D to 3D renditions of some characters. Only a few are saved, not to mention that more than 1/2 of the alternative outfits suck. :lol
EDIT: Hosted pic
If youre going to show an "example", then pick an image that shows how the finished game looks. Not a leaked shot from pre-alpha.
I think that looks great. SF IV did a groundbreaking job in adapting 2d to 3d without going the photoreal proportions that EX, MI and countless other failed projects did. Plus, theyre going to iterate from here, SF V will have a totally different look, like every SF game.
The Take Out Bandit said:
Also false
Bandit how would you feel if SF looked like this? : http://www.pseudo-pod.com/temp/Guile/Guile_A2.jpg (too big an image to post)
Raging Spaniard said:If youre going to show an "example", then pick an image that shows how the finished game looks. Not a leaked shot from pre-alpha.
I think that looks great. SF IV did a groundbreaking job in adapting 2d to 3d without going the photoreal proportions that EX, MI and countless other failed projects did. Plus, theyre going to iterate from here, SF V will have a totally different look, like every SF game.
That is 1 good shot, but most of the time Ryu look like this (which is a picture you will see a lot online):
This is still ugly, you can't deny the fact that Ryu is damn ugly in SF4. Those prototypes look way better than what we got and that goes for other characters too. SF4 Chun-li is the most ugly Chun-li of all, her proportions are all weird and she doesn't look Chinese enough as her other portraits. Yes the characters can look nice in some angles, but most of the time (80% of the time), they look ugly.
Raging Spaniard said:Also false
Bandit how would you feel if SF looked like this? : http://www.pseudo-pod.com/temp/Guile/Guile_A2.jpg (too big an image to post)
From all the females you had to pick Juri as an example!?
Dude... Juri is ugly as F, worse fighting game design out there, worse than Ash. She doesn't make sense at all as a character design, specially for the SF universe. Horn like hairstyle, non realistic outfit, a eye that spins around, etc.
Seriously, read that and think of it reasonably, Ash has a jacket and outfit in red, with some dark red drawings, with finger nail art and effeminate appearance. That at least its more credible than what Juri is with her Horn hairstile... :lol
But yeah, they got Cammy and Sakura right and Rose portrait look sexy, but her character model face is ugly. =/
Juri personality, moveset and voice are awesome, but besides that the character design is just ugly.
abstract alien
Member
All of the characters look great while actually moving instead of screen stills. Maybe its just me *shrugs*
abstract alien said:
In motion you aren't really looking at the characters face or anything, you are looking at their movements. But the fact is that the models are ugly, that is my only point.
Is like KOF12, people complain the game look jaggie, but in motion the game look gorgeous, same can be said with SF4 until you see close-ups or still pictures. =/
Arpharmd B
Banned
-DarKaoZ- said:
I agree that the old SF2 cast in 3d is hit and miss, but I think some of the characters looked fantastic. For example, Rufus to me reminds me of a 3rd Strike 2d character come to life in 3d. Just the way he looks and animates is straight out of 3s. They really should be commended for much of the animation in 4 it really is fantastic.
The way they do shading on the 3d models is also reminiscent of the way they did it in 3. If you look closely you can see it on Elena in particular, as she moves there's shading differences on her legs you can see pretty clearly. Not sure how they accomplished that I guess it's just how they colored the sprites.
Anyways, I think KOFXII looked fantastic but it could have been so much prettier had the sprites been 720p like in BlazBlue. All is forgiven when you see the animation though. I guess we can't have 2d characters in high detail and good animation, it's always one thing or the other it seems :/
Arpharmd B
Banned
Juri's final model in that pic posted above looks amazing. She really came together at the end. Don't know what some of ya'll are smoking.
Augemitbutter
Member
i'll support this thread.
CcrooK said:
I think I'm getting up to those levels. For different reasons though.
Plus, I have HDR and Tekken, so my FG needs will be satisfied until Super comes out and I'll be stuck playing that for a bit since no one will be playing anything else. (And SSF4 won't be a total trainwreck in the first month)
Seriously though: I prefer the old SNK designs like 94-98 over the newer ones. It's one reason I prefer 98 to 02. I thought the 03 and XI designs are better then the 99-02 ones though, except for Momoko. No one likes Momoko.
The Take Out Bandit
Member
Come on guys, out of respect for Fersis's thread we should tone this down. :|
Matter of opinion bro.
Rose looks like Jay Leno. Chun Li looks hideous. Mokoto's got a fivehead and facial featues on the lower third of her head. Viper has monoboob.
SF4 chicks just look fugly.
It's shit in it's current incarnation. It would be shit using the Unreal Engine. Like the final product, that Gears of Guile model just demonstrates some poor bastard burned a ton of calories to end up with a pile of fugly. :lol
Back to wanking over SFA3 videos now thanks.
Kicking Fatcoon to the curb is the best thing SNK could have done.
Raging Spaniard said:
Matter of opinion bro.
Rose looks like Jay Leno. Chun Li looks hideous. Mokoto's got a fivehead and facial featues on the lower third of her head. Viper has monoboob.
SF4 chicks just look fugly.
It's shit in it's current incarnation. It would be shit using the Unreal Engine. Like the final product, that Gears of Guile model just demonstrates some poor bastard burned a ton of calories to end up with a pile of fugly. :lol
Back to wanking over SFA3 videos now thanks.
Fersis said:
Kicking Fatcoon to the curb is the best thing SNK could have done.
LowParry
Member
I've never really put full time in any of the old KOF games so I have nothing really to compare. XII was my first real entry which fell flat on it's ass so I'm hoping XIII delivers. Granted I put a lot of time in CvsS2 so I did have some exposure to the characters. Mark of the Wolves with the other I got to play a lot of.
They've got a roster. Just get more characters in. More stages. Music. Character intros/ending (specifics). More modes. Improved online. Complete move list set with all characters. It can happen. I just hope SNK learned a huge lesson with XII.
They've got a roster. Just get more characters in. More stages. Music. Character intros/ending (specifics). More modes. Improved online. Complete move list set with all characters. It can happen. I just hope SNK learned a huge lesson with XII.
The Take Out Bandit
Member
arstal said:
Holy shit. . .
I can see that in my head, right now it's processing Fatcoon Goro.
That's a shame though.
I recall everybody quoting and posting stuff from his daily art blog, but those were western gamers posting it. He's definitely not your standard SNK artist.
I was happy for him when he landed the gig, but then he crapped out a bunch of retarded fanfic characters and it was time for him to leave.
What's Fatcoon up to these days?
I've taken to calling him Fatcoon ever since seeing him on the Maximum Impact DVD...
The Take Out Bandit
Member
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
-DarKaoZ- said:That is 1 good shot, but most of the time Ryu look like this (which is a picture you will see a lot online):
This is still ugly, you can't deny the fact that Ryu is damn ugly in SF4. Those prototypes look way better than what we got and that goes for other characters too. SF4 Chun-li is the most ugly Chun-li of all, her proportions are all weird and she doesn't look Chinese enough as her other portraits. Yes the characters can look nice in some angles, but most of the time (80% of the time), they look ugly.
From all the females you had to pick Juri as an example!?
Dude... Juri is ugly as F, worse fighting game design out there, worse than Ash. She doesn't make sense at all as a character design, specially for the SF universe. Horn like hairstyle, non realistic outfit, a eye that spins around, etc.
Seriously, read that and think of it reasonably, Ash has a jacket and outfit in red, with some dark red drawings, with finger nail art and effeminate appearance. That at least its more credible than what Juri is with her Horn hairstile... :lol
But yeah, they got Cammy and Sakura right and Rose portrait look sexy, but her character model face is ugly. =/
Juri personality, moveset and voice are awesome, but besides that the character design is just ugly.
Short version: lol what
Actual response: Thats the exact same Ryu model! So you dont like like that expression, sure, but its not badly modeled, he looks fine, exactly like the concept art, etc. Those prototypes looked cool but I see why they went with the final look, its the one that reads better in-game, specially while youre actually playing. Dont worry though, Im sure theyll go back to the anime look soon enough.
Chun-Li has never looked Chinese. Dont know why thats something to bring up now. Her hands are big, sure, but her 3rd strike hands are bigger, so eh.
When Im talking about Juri I was talking about if she looks fugly or not. Design wise, well, Ash still looks more like a chick than she does and ... what the fuck is the point of his design? That he shoots green flames and looks like a girl? I guess theres design involved since he wears red and shoots green so those 2 colors work well together and his hair helmet makes an interesting silhouette ...but thats about it. Juri has an obvious taekwondo inspired look that reflects her moveset/stance and at least she looks like she could move in it, rather than wearing a suit (this is a problem I have with C. Vipers design too, not just the King Of Fashion series where most people are dressed for ballroom dancing rather than fighting) Yeah you can bitch about the horns, but at least its a girl wearing an eccentric hairstyle. and I dont see how that gets in the way of kicking ass (also makes for an interesting silhouette) Juri brings something new and interesting to the SF universe because she still looks like a fighter (and yeah, robot eye is different from "psycho power"how? or a power suit that Viper wears?) while in KoF theyre gonna run out of ideas for new main characters as soon as they run out of new flame colors.
Youre entitled to your opinion of course, and if you dont like her design .. then yeah ok sure, but dont tell me its because its not "realistic" because if that was the case, more than half of the KoF cast couldnt move with those clothes they wear.
Bandit for the Guile image I asked out of curiosity
Edit: sorry for going OT, done with SF talk now
KOF did better then SF in a lot of places. Just not the united states.
Some of that was due to piracy and cheaper machines, some of that was due to Capcom being good at blocking out SNK in the US.
Seriously you look in the old 2DF SNK room, it was all Brazilians and Mexicans, and GGPO was mostly Chinese.
Playing the JApanese in KOF on GGPO was a treat- very different from Mexican style.
Different countries tended to have their own style.
I was told I used a Korean style with all my poking.
Some of that was due to piracy and cheaper machines, some of that was due to Capcom being good at blocking out SNK in the US.
Seriously you look in the old 2DF SNK room, it was all Brazilians and Mexicans, and GGPO was mostly Chinese.
Playing the JApanese in KOF on GGPO was a treat- very different from Mexican style.
Different countries tended to have their own style.
I was told I used a Korean style with all my poking.
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
When I lived in Mexico for a few years, I can attest to seeing KoF dominate the scene. SF was still popular dont get me wrong, and thats what we played at home since nobody had a NeoGeo .. but in the arcade it was KoF 96 or bust.
The online play is obviously the big problem. I still find I enjoy these games more with friends or family at home than online, though. It's just so hit or miss whether you can even compete online. One minute you're up against someone on your skill level and the next you're run out of town on a rail. Until someone gets matchmaking right online, I think I'm just happier to play with the kids/friends.Lyte Edge said:
'98UM is great and I'm glad I have the PS2 release but no online in the US. Too bad the Xbox Live ports of that and Mark of the Wolves have similar problems with online play. I'd play MotW every day if they had gotten the online right despite my preference for playing with friends/family. I still think that's SNK's highest point.
GotchaForce
Member
Fersis said:
I've worked at Gamestop for a few years now and ONLY Latinos ever ask for KOF.
sixteen-bit
Member
my condolencesrobut said:
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
All I'll say about the character models in SFIV is that Chun-Li is an attractive woman because she looks like a real woman who would be able to beat the crap out of a male martial artist in a fight. Like it or not, a female like that is going to have big damn muscles, thighs, and yes, "man hands" in some cases. The same pretty much goes for Cammy, though she's still a more anime-like and less plausible looking woman.
Though perhaps people who want to pick on 2D/3D art styles should focus on Tatsunoko vs Capcom. The literal anime style in that game is the best I've seen, personally, in a 3D game. Here's a test to try, it really works: get the characters in an action pose then pause the game so that the depth of field blur fades out the screen a bit. If you look a the characters, they almost always look like hand drawn animation frames then. This is because the style of the modeling and the shadowing so perfectly matches a 2D art style.
Such a style used on hardware that could provide more polygons and sufficient anti-aliasing would, I suspect, knock the 2D vs 3D argument for a loop. SFIV is an easy target to pick on because it's not really anime-style, and more of a beefy comic book look. The characters are some of the best modeled (save Blanka) and best animated ever, but they don't use the art style that 2D fighting game fans / otaku splooge over.
Though perhaps people who want to pick on 2D/3D art styles should focus on Tatsunoko vs Capcom. The literal anime style in that game is the best I've seen, personally, in a 3D game. Here's a test to try, it really works: get the characters in an action pose then pause the game so that the depth of field blur fades out the screen a bit. If you look a the characters, they almost always look like hand drawn animation frames then. This is because the style of the modeling and the shadowing so perfectly matches a 2D art style.
Such a style used on hardware that could provide more polygons and sufficient anti-aliasing would, I suspect, knock the 2D vs 3D argument for a loop. SFIV is an easy target to pick on because it's not really anime-style, and more of a beefy comic book look. The characters are some of the best modeled (save Blanka) and best animated ever, but they don't use the art style that 2D fighting game fans / otaku splooge over.
The Take Out Bandit
Member
Kaijima said:
Stop pretending SFIV invented Chun Li.
She's always had big muscled legs since SF2.
You're also stereotyping badly. Women that kick ass =/= Overly muscled cliches
Gina Carano
Kira Gracie
Keri Scarr
Erin Toughill
Kaitlin Young
Michelle Waterson
Ginele Marquez
All hot, all undeniably female, and all capable of beating the ass of many a GAF poster.
So yeah, Chun Li has always been a muscled fighter babe; and another you may as well throw in there as the golden standard is the original VF4 Vanessa Lewis.
Unfortunately SEGA saw fit to take away both her muscles and her melanin. >:|
Also regarding the art - Capcom art is still pretty consistent. "Comic Book
" is bullshit.Look at Capcom Design Works or any Capcom artbook, and you'll see the style has been consistent for the characters. Barring the SF4 heavy ink caveman Ryu / Ken art. A lot of the character select screen portraits are very much in line with standard Capcom styles. That just didn't translate well to 3D. Yeah, it translated better than most, but we're still not at the destination.
Folks just like to pretend Capcom had Dimps "westernize it up" (since it's a little odd looking) despite all the design work pointing to business as usual.
Yeah so...anyway. When is info about KOF XIII supposed to hit? I'm hoping for refined gameplay, updates roster, completed characters and...well, a real KOF.
On a side note, I wish SNK would put their fighters on PSN too. I don't mean to start a system war, but I mainly play PS3 now and the only reason I can't ditch my 360 is because I have SNK games on it. Yeah, the online blows, but the games themselves are fine. =( I will really miss these games.
On a side note, I wish SNK would put their fighters on PSN too. I don't mean to start a system war, but I mainly play PS3 now and the only reason I can't ditch my 360 is because I have SNK games on it. Yeah, the online blows, but the games themselves are fine. =( I will really miss these games.
The Take Out Bandit
Member
Kintaro said:
Yeah, the lack of SNK classics on PSN really sticks in my craw.
As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I'd be totally cool if Backbone ported them with the netcode they cooked up for SF2HDR.
That would be awesome and another reason for me to re-PS3.
AAK said:
Oh, cool.
Also, the only female I have beef with in SF4 is Chunners. She looks off compared to the other ladies in the cast. Maybe they will smooth out the rough edges in SSF4. The rest look fine to me. I would like to see a Juri alt with her hair down though, but I doubt that will ever happen. Her voice is damned sexy though. In either language.
The Take Out Bandit
Member
Happy Phantom said:
Still not going to supplant "Orin is black?!" :lol