I wasn't talking about the AI glitches but people not even getting some rather basic actions. I've seen people having trouble just jumping off a chain or even doing rather basic actions. Then there are others who don't really seem to understand the interactions with Trico, spam buttons and then get really frustrated when that doesn't work. Not everyone has these issues but they seem rather common watching a lot of random youtubers, streamers and the like.
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The Last Guardian |OT| In my memories, the monster always has kind eyes
- Thread starter Agram
- Start date
I wasn't talking about the AI glitches but people not even getting some rather basic actions. I've seen people having trouble just jumping off a chain or even doing rather basic actions. Then there are others who don't really seem to understand the interactions with Trico, spam buttons and then get really frustrated when that doesn't work. Not everyone has these issues but they seem rather common watching a lot of random youtubers, streamers and the like.
I mean, is that the fault of the youtuber or the fault of the game for not explaining them properly?
Yeah, some parts were easy because Trico pretty much did everything on his own. But there were other parts with so many AI glitches, I've pretty much done the exact same thing twice and have had Trico jumping to the correct place one time and jumping back the way we came another time. The worst is towards the end after you
aim your mirror to take out the spear throwers in the tower far away, after taking out the hanging eyes on the way up
PetriP-TNT
Member
Finally beat the game. Took me around 2 hours plus something like 7 trying to get Trico do some things. My review would be something like this:
Overall the game is all over the place. Graphically it jumps around early PS3 games (especially texture wise) to being really pretty and even then the art style saves a ton. Majority of the puzzles are rather obvious and the "a-ha" moments are very far and in-between. Then again, there are couple of ones that were rather interesting like one of the water puzzles
. Other parts of the gameplay are either dodging enemies (with the simplest possible "mash the buttons until you get freed" mechanic) until Trico comes and saves the day, or pointing at things. There are a few longer platforming sections which actually were... really nice after doing similar stuff for hours. Oh yeah, there's some "carry stuff slowly / push stuff slowly / oh hey it's a physics based puzzle" things too.
It's no surprise that the biggest challenge comes from getting Trico to perform the actual actions: I do believe that some people might have breezed through the game without running into that many issues. I also believe that either Trico's AI or animation system is terribly broken at parts and sometimes it just fails to work. Most obvious way to show this is to restart from the same checkpoint when getting stuck and seeing Trico perform the actions flawlessly on the first try. Either the game is too picky about positions, or the game just fails to jump to the next animation loop or other gameplay function. Sometimes the opposite happens and Trico jumps through the levels without any interaction at all, which is even more weird. I actually liked how the player character move, but the controls in general are terrible, the camera is absolutely horrible and the UI is one of the ugliest around (which doesn't help as the gameplay tips are on the screen from start to end).
And the performance. Goddamn at the performance. I had to play the game in 720p, which somewhat helped making the game run somewhat near 30 fps, but during action sequences it drops to cinematic ~10-20s still. In some of the more grand sequences (
I am pretty sure that you could count the frames you see. Actually the at those parts the game looked like Final Fantasy VII hybrid FMVs, where prerendered video is composed around real time rendered characters. Like SotC, by default the game was a straight trip to toilet to some good ol' puking time due to the high motion blur, deliberately delayed controls and terribad performance. Dropping the game to 720p made it super blurry, but at least it was now playable.
If there's something that's really consistent in the game, it's the beautiful soundtrack and otherwise excellent sound design. There's not much of it, but it's all really nice. Also the animations are top notch. And Trico is more charming than everything and acts like a cat-dog would act in real life (except my cats are way better at understanding simple commands like stop, jump, pick up and hit, and those cats were quite feral when I got them).
The Last Guardian tries its best to get the player to hate it. It's an futile exercise in tedium as a medium, filled with frustrating parts and sub-par technical qualities. It takes most of the worst parts of Shadow Of The Colossus (bad performance, frustrating controls) and Ico (tedious repeating puzzles), but it's hard to say that the game would be garbage. On the contrary, the high points are really high and Trico is by far the most wonderful animal to ever grace video games. I am not sure if I am disappointed or not; most likely not. I expected the jank, but then again it was pretty overwhelming even compared to the previous two. I understand why people would absolutely love this game. I just can't.
Overall the game is all over the place. Graphically it jumps around early PS3 games (especially texture wise) to being really pretty and even then the art style saves a ton. Majority of the puzzles are rather obvious and the "a-ha" moments are very far and in-between. Then again, there are couple of ones that were rather interesting like one of the water puzzles
where a wave shoots you up
It's no surprise that the biggest challenge comes from getting Trico to perform the actual actions: I do believe that some people might have breezed through the game without running into that many issues. I also believe that either Trico's AI or animation system is terribly broken at parts and sometimes it just fails to work. Most obvious way to show this is to restart from the same checkpoint when getting stuck and seeing Trico perform the actions flawlessly on the first try. Either the game is too picky about positions, or the game just fails to jump to the next animation loop or other gameplay function. Sometimes the opposite happens and Trico jumps through the levels without any interaction at all, which is even more weird. I actually liked how the player character move, but the controls in general are terrible, the camera is absolutely horrible and the UI is one of the ugliest around (which doesn't help as the gameplay tips are on the screen from start to end).
And the performance. Goddamn at the performance. I had to play the game in 720p, which somewhat helped making the game run somewhat near 30 fps, but during action sequences it drops to cinematic ~10-20s still. In some of the more grand sequences (
like bridges collapsing while Trico runs on top of them)
If there's something that's really consistent in the game, it's the beautiful soundtrack and otherwise excellent sound design. There's not much of it, but it's all really nice. Also the animations are top notch. And Trico is more charming than everything and acts like a cat-dog would act in real life (except my cats are way better at understanding simple commands like stop, jump, pick up and hit, and those cats were quite feral when I got them).
The Last Guardian tries its best to get the player to hate it. It's an futile exercise in tedium as a medium, filled with frustrating parts and sub-par technical qualities. It takes most of the worst parts of Shadow Of The Colossus (bad performance, frustrating controls) and Ico (tedious repeating puzzles), but it's hard to say that the game would be garbage. On the contrary, the high points are really high and Trico is by far the most wonderful animal to ever grace video games. I am not sure if I am disappointed or not; most likely not. I expected the jank, but then again it was pretty overwhelming even compared to the previous two. I understand why people would absolutely love this game. I just can't.
HueyFreeman
Banned
"Rush" was referring to the time from your post, ie. you are returning it the same day. It's too bad - you'll be missing out on some truly great moments, and the water seems like it can be an isolated stumbling block for people - but the game is clearly not for everyone, particularly not if it's making you angry.
Both.
The game is garbage at explaining very crucial things ( i knew about L1 just because i remembered it from past Ueda games, for example) and yet keeps spamming you with pointless button prompts up until the very end of the game for no reason.
That's just sloppy design.
On the other hand, it's not uncommon to see people just flat out not pay any attention to what the game is saying, and then complain about being lost.
FrankWza
Member
I just popped back in here since i completed a few weeks back and moved on. Wanted to tell anyone with issues that sometimes reloading to last checkpoint fixes a.i. issues. I dont know if its the game itself or spamming buttons that need clearing but it does work. Also worked for me when a certain cutscene towards the end did not automatically load after doing what was necessary to trigger it. Try it out.
Thank you! I guess I didn't look carefully enough during my brief
new game+
Ghostshark
Member
Well, I beat it. Absolutely amazing game. This is one of those experiences, like Shadow of the Colossus, that I'm going to remember forever.
Ending spoilers:
Ending spoilers:
Holy fuck the end part was intense. The entire "battle" versus the Trico army at the end was insane, and I was in absolute panic mode trying to save my Trico.
Like the rest of the series, there were moments where you just acted out of instinct, but in a natural way, like yelling at Trico to flee. I don't think any other series of games has done this expertly.
I didn't see the ending as sad at all. I'm assuming that the Trico 2 allows for a mating pair for the survival of the species. The main character after the timeskip isn't even that old, there's a very good chance that it'll return and they'll be reunited.
I hate using walkthroughs, but I had to consult one twice during the game, and I blame it mostly on mechanics. The part when you fall into the water and need to move the box into place for Trico to lower its tail didn't function, so I looked it up. The ending elevator descent to activate the ceiling was also bugged, and I couldn't figure out how to climb down.
Does removing spears actually do anything aside from flavor? I removed every single one because I felt so attached to Trico, but it didn't feel like it had any gameplay mechanic. The game also seemed to have no consequences for failure as well, as it seems that nothing can actually kill you. I let Trico 2 batter me around, often took ridiculous jumps to save time, and was batted around so much during the ending that every bone in my body should have been broken.
Regarding the title of the game, who is the "last guardian?" Is it the protagonist for saving the Trico species? Is it Trico for saving the protagonist?
Like the rest of the series, there were moments where you just acted out of instinct, but in a natural way, like yelling at Trico to flee. I don't think any other series of games has done this expertly.
I didn't see the ending as sad at all. I'm assuming that the Trico 2 allows for a mating pair for the survival of the species. The main character after the timeskip isn't even that old, there's a very good chance that it'll return and they'll be reunited.
I hate using walkthroughs, but I had to consult one twice during the game, and I blame it mostly on mechanics. The part when you fall into the water and need to move the box into place for Trico to lower its tail didn't function, so I looked it up. The ending elevator descent to activate the ceiling was also bugged, and I couldn't figure out how to climb down.
Does removing spears actually do anything aside from flavor? I removed every single one because I felt so attached to Trico, but it didn't feel like it had any gameplay mechanic. The game also seemed to have no consequences for failure as well, as it seems that nothing can actually kill you. I let Trico 2 batter me around, often took ridiculous jumps to save time, and was batted around so much during the ending that every bone in my body should have been broken.
Regarding the title of the game, who is the "last guardian?" Is it the protagonist for saving the Trico species? Is it Trico for saving the protagonist?
Unknown?
Member
Huh? I never had those problems. Well actually only once where he went backwards but that's because I didn't know where to go. He only did the wrong thing or was unresponsive when I pointed towards some place he wasn't supposed to go. Shooting lasers only works with the shield out so I never had any problems with that. The camera did bug out in some tight spaces though but never for long.
Bronetta
Ask me about the moon landing or the temperature at which jet fuel burns. You may be surprised at what you learn.
I was scrolling through my PS4 Library last night when I passed over The Last Guardian and happened to saw some pictures of Trico uploaded by other users. Automatically made me miss Trico and I fired up the game just to play the intro again.
Phenomenal game and even though Its only been a month since finishing it, the game and the memories I had with it are very special.
Phenomenal game and even though Its only been a month since finishing it, the game and the memories I had with it are very special.
herbchamberz
Member
The controls, man. Framerate never bothered me; camera never bothered me; even Trico's AI never bothered me. There were just too many instances of me fighting the controls to do something, This could have been one of my all time favorite games (and maybe it still will be - time will tell).
My two biggest faults with the controls are: 1) how it's either "sneak" or "full sprint" for the boy. There needs to be a "walk" animation in between, and 2)
.
But other than that. Everything else about this game is beautiful. I love the art style, the organic environments, the soundtrack, the story, the puzzles, and of course, Trico. Just damn, fix those controls.
My two biggest faults with the controls are: 1) how it's either "sneak" or "full sprint" for the boy. There needs to be a "walk" animation in between, and 2)
killing-the-soldiers-with-the-mirror mechanic was just crap
But other than that. Everything else about this game is beautiful. I love the art style, the organic environments, the soundtrack, the story, the puzzles, and of course, Trico. Just damn, fix those controls.
sammyCYBORG
Member
Started playing this today, it's really good so far. Interacting with Trico is unlike anything else in a game I've experienced.
The graphics and framerate are fucking shite though. Sony should be embarrassed by the performance on a standard PS4. Seriously headache inducing. Shameful.
The graphics and framerate are fucking shite though. Sony should be embarrassed by the performance on a standard PS4. Seriously headache inducing. Shameful.
If you don't mind the lower resolution, you can set your PS4 to 720p to get better performance.
It's quite an uplifting experience, in the end. As heartbreaking as the ending was, there's some element of healing to it that I can't quite explain.
Like, it's the moment where you're ready to accept something about your life and move on. It's somewhat similar to the feeling I got watching Whisper of the Heart.
Like, it's the moment where you're ready to accept something about your life and move on. It's somewhat similar to the feeling I got watching Whisper of the Heart.
For me, it was really Trico surviving -- and then some. Since the announce trailer, I was 100% convinced that he was going to die after a grand, heartwarming adventure. Instead, the game breaks your heart to heal it again and again while punctuating these moments with some of the most shocking peril I've ever witnessed in a game. Sure Trico and the boy must go their separate ways at the end and they even went so far as to make the player send Trico away with the last button press you make, but it's the happiest ending imaginable. Despite all the brutality he endured, Trico's life is changed for the better as the Master's mind control has been broken forever and he has a family. (Christ how I cried at the reveal that he wasn't just alive, but he wasn't alone -- brilliant) Meanwhile, the boy was returned to his tribe and got his life back.
Not at all the emotional beats I expected, but it was just perfect. This is the only game I can think of that has caused me to have a big goofy smile on my face at times, cry tears of sadness at others, and then make me cry tears of happiness at the end.
Not at all the emotional beats I expected, but it was just perfect. This is the only game I can think of that has caused me to have a big goofy smile on my face at times, cry tears of sadness at others, and then make me cry tears of happiness at the end.
Honestly, I couldn't care less about framerates and camera issues when a game provides an experience this uniquely engrossing.
Lys Skygge
Member
What a fucking masterpiece! I just beat it, and I'm so happy I got the experience this beautiful game. That ending
Also, I can't believe some people think the graphics are bad. I think it's one of the best looking PS4 games I've played. There is absolutely no way this game could have run on a PS3.
Edit: Ending Spoilers:
:,)
Also, I can't believe some people think the graphics are bad. I think it's one of the best looking PS4 games I've played. There is absolutely no way this game could have run on a PS3.
Edit: Ending Spoilers:
My SO and I were discussing the type of ending the game would have. My SO, like a lot of people, assumed it'd be a sad ending (Trico dies). I predicted an Iron Giant type ending where Trico sacrifices himself but is revealed to still be alive in the end. I feel my prediction was close; Trico and the boy are separated, but it's hinted that the now grown boy can summon Trico to come back.
Tips for Mr Ueda/genDESIGN:
- Put a threshold on Trico's AI, so that he always does what he's supposed to do after a certain amount of time. This keeps intact his animal AI but also ensures players don't get stuck for 15+ mins on one puzzle.
- Design puzzles a bit better so that it's more clear what the player has to do and avoid confusion that you're not sure whether you're doing something wrong or if it's just Trico being stubborn (and delete that stupid box-water 'puzzle' in the mines).
- Please try to work on a better camera that doesn't go crazy when clipping with the walls all the time.
- Maybe let the player turn off the button prompts (I know I can press X to hang, thank you).
- Don't make all the cutscenes so backhalf heavy (also why does the native village have an airstrip in the forest).
Overall though, this game was really good. The art direction is phenomenal and I am in awe at the animation and climbing mechanics.
- Put a threshold on Trico's AI, so that he always does what he's supposed to do after a certain amount of time. This keeps intact his animal AI but also ensures players don't get stuck for 15+ mins on one puzzle.
- Design puzzles a bit better so that it's more clear what the player has to do and avoid confusion that you're not sure whether you're doing something wrong or if it's just Trico being stubborn (and delete that stupid box-water 'puzzle' in the mines).
- Please try to work on a better camera that doesn't go crazy when clipping with the walls all the time.
- Maybe let the player turn off the button prompts (I know I can press X to hang, thank you).
- Don't make all the cutscenes so backhalf heavy (also why does the native village have an airstrip in the forest).
Overall though, this game was really good. The art direction is phenomenal and I am in awe at the animation and climbing mechanics.
I've just finished the game and this is the part I would call out as well.
Eventually got him to dive while hanging on but it was frustrating.
Any other AI issues I encountered were over come by climbing on Trico, getting back off and/ or leading him back then towards my target again. This seemed to "reset" things and he would then normally get into the correct position or pay attention to the target.
Wonderful game, loved it.
DangerMouse
Member
Right on. Such a wonderful, special game that's going to stick with me. And Trico is so life-like it's incredible.
PetriP-TNT
Member
The game barely runs on PS4 so the not being able to run on PS3 is kinda given, but it's very obvious that the game had a long and troubled development: you can clearly notice that some assets haven't been touched since the game debuted on 2009. Extremely blurry, low quality textures are all around and geometry wise it's a weird mix of some detailed things and tons of boxy-primitives, especially if you point your focus to things that are off the beaten path.
Then again the game excellent lighting and other effects, some parts do look really good and obviously Trico's model is pretty nice. The high quality motion blur helps too. I wouldn't say it's a bad game graphically, but more that it's all over the place, like everything else in the game.
I just finished the game, and as a 23 year old male, I don't think I've ever cried such ugly, heartbroken/heartmended sobs in my life.
I'm talking OTT not being able to breathe when you were a kid because you'd cried your heart out sobs.
This game. This game. Why do I do this to myself?
I'm talking OTT not being able to breathe when you were a kid because you'd cried your heart out sobs.
This game. This game. Why do I do this to myself?
DieNgamers
Member
It get emotionally merciless towards the end, right? So good.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Hey guys, should I keep this Collector's Edition or return it and buy a regular version? I got it over the holidays and today is the last day to return if I'm going to do so.
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
RyanPierre
Member
This isn't a lot to go on. It's unopened and you haven't played it? If so, why did you get it (was it a gift or something you bought for yourself)? Are you interested in the statue/artbook?
I thought the collector's edition items had great quality, so if you're interested in those, I would keep it. If not, then just get the normal version.
Dreams-Visions
Member
It's unopened. I haven't played it because I've been busy. I pre-ordered it long ago then forgot about it until it was on my doorstep. Long return window made me push the decision until later. I'm somewhat indifferent to the statue and art book, but I do like collecting things. Unfortunately I don't have much space to display something like this at the moment.
I suppose I'm looking for collector's edition owners who have found it to be worth keeping.
hemo memo
You can't die before your death
This. Technical issues aside this is really got to me at the end of the game I was forcing myself to finish.
DieNgamers
Member
To be fair, the box/water puzzle was the only sketchy one in the game out of mostly great puzzles. What I liked so much about the game was that I didn't even have to think about the solutions that much. Once you "get" Trico and they way he interacts with his surroundings everythings feels so natural. To me the only game that deals with puzzles in a similarly organic and satisfying way is Inside.
I very much disagree with any critique concerning the cutscenes. There were only 2 or 3 major ones and they were phenomenal.
He does this? I spent most of the game looking for the hidden barrells and keeping Trico fed because I thought there would be two endings. Trico basically walked forward through environments and I'd have to run and jump on him to keep up. Like 85% of the time.
Everything I had trouble with was related to bad boy platforming controls / the worst slow camera which was my fault for not upping sensitivity and theirs for not just letting it clip near geometry and changing fov. And squirelly mechanics that got used once.
lukeskymac
Member
Yeah, I agree. I always knew what to do, but never in a disappointing way. It all just flows really well, it's a very natural progression.
I know from the comments in this thread that some had glitches with it, and that is unfortunate, but I liked the box-water puzzle. A patch with a fix to prevent it from glitching would be nice. I certainly don't want it to be deleted, and I certainly don't want Trico's AI 'improving' either.
PetriP-TNT
Member
It's just a very badly designed puzzle. The "glitch" for me was that Tricos tail got stuck into the floor boards endless of times. The "fix" would be to either designing the puzzle better or just allowing the Tricos tail to break some laws of physics there.
Moving around and calling Trico from different spots in the water, so he re-orientates his body in trying to get to the boy, will get the tail to drop down (or at least it has done for me).
The glitch (perhaps the wrong word to use here) I was referring to was players who say
the boy got knocked off the tail back into the water by hitting the wood when Trico lifted himself up.
Audioboxer
Member
I know, massive feels
^ Dumb ass getting his head stuck
Completed the game last night, dem feels looking back at these pictures from early on <3
On "suicide watch" that we probably won't ever get a Team ICO game again. The last 1/3rd of TLG was absolutely insane. It does show up some pacing issues in the first chunk of the game, to be honest, but the overall journey was a masterpiece.
I can forgive the crazy delays and some left over gameplay jank as coding a game like this must have been a nightmare. From the AI to having to have the whole world support a small character and a massive character. It was clearly a big ask for the studio, and starting on the PS3 must have been an insurmountable challenge.
Even although gameplay and camera complaints are real, and I can see some folks docking points for that, Jim Sterling's review just comes across as pretty heartless right now. As do a few others. However, I guess this just goes to show some really do want games to be games, and cannot see a one off unique experience for almost "transcending" the medium. As in, this is one experience I don't think we'll ever see again. Although to be fair, even most of the harshest reviews do still mention some of the charm, JS included.
Also,
there's only 1 real Trico. Bad Tricos be damned (even although they were being controlled).
Lastly, trophies, lol. I really cannot bring myself to replay this any time soon. Just not that kind of game for me.
Yeah, for sure. That's why I'm really hoping their partnership with Sony will continue. Can't think of any other publisher who would support them in the same way.
It's in my top 5 favorite games ever, and even then I wouldn't blame any publisher for giving up on it after so long, but they didn't, and I'm very grateful for that.
And to put that in perspective, I'm usually one to say "it's a product, they got my money for it, thanking publishers is nonsense", but I do believe it applies here. They could most likely make more money out of their investment somewhere else. But they believed in the project. I'm not gonna say they did it out of the goodness of their hearts, but even just something like believing it would be a great addition to their lineup and make the PS4 standout as the platform where you can get the most varied and unique experiences is already worthy of praise, with Scalebound being canceled roughly around the time when this game releaased.
I also don't want it to be an indie project, because it would clearly limit Ueda's vision, as he said so himself, but I'm not sure if working for some big publishers out there would be better.
Greatest Ever
Member
Not that Jim Sterling didn't make some good points, but we really gonna act like as a games critics dude's worth anything? He's hilariously awful at video games and his taste is questionable at best.
I like a lot of Jim's stuff even if I don't agree with his reviews like half the time. He hates a lot of stuff I love but also loves a lot of stuff I love. He just gave Nioh a 10/10 so we're on the same wavelength when it comes to certain genres and styles of games.
Greatest Ever
Member
I totally get agreeing and getting along with someone's tastes, but the dude is awful with criticism for plenty of games because he just flat out sucks at them.
I will go to bat for most of his videos, because he's a lot more honest about how business-driven the artistic process of creating a game has become than "journalists" but the man is an awful critic.
Audioboxer
Member
Eh, I maybe shouldn't have name dropped, and just left it as critics with harsher comments to say. Funnily enough, I actually line up with a lot of Jim's tastes, but I've never really understood some of his remarks on Team ICO games. Considering he seems to like a lot of experimental and story based titles, it's just a bit weird Team ICO games don't do more for him.
Although, sure, ALL of the Team ICO games have had some questionable gameplay choices, and camera issues. There's no denying that.
Anyway, this isn't a review thread! The sadder thing to me isn't reviews, but that I genuinely don't know if we'll see a Team ICO game again, or even something like TLG for a very long time.
PetriP-TNT
Member
This happened to me too, but due to the same thing why the tail sometimes fails to come down.
Audioboxer
Member
I don't think Ueda wants to. Obviously TLG nearly wrecked the guy, but I think in general he is done.
He has said in a recent interview that he still wants and plans to make games and they are the only medium that can do his artistic vision justice and even went into detail on things like how large a budget he would need for the next game (between AAA and Indie). He's not going anywhere and I believe GenDesign is even hiring.
