I'm nearing what I believe to be the end of the game and I don't want it to be over...
Some weird gameplay quirks and bugs aside, this really is one of the most amazing games I've ever played. An Instant classic. If I made a list of my favorite games of all time, the top ten would be dominated by games from my childhood. The Last Guardian cracks my top ten and I haven't even finished it yet.
This very specific sentiment is true for me as well funnily enough. TLG was the first game since 2003 to enter my all time top ten. That's how much I loved it. Not even the best of Naughty Dog or Rockstar managed to enamour me to the same extent that Ueda and his team did.
I mean, near the start, the boy (not yet realising he's trapped in The Nest) is willing to ditch Trico and head off home - even though they are dependent on each other, it's the beast that initially wants to tag along, and for the majority of their journey it's the boy leading the way, either through solving the puzzles or giving instructions.
I didn't really sense guilt in Trico. After it's servitude to the Master of the Valley was broken it seemed more like the beast is just as lost and confused as the boy. Though it does screech at the tower every chance it gets, so I think it is aware of what has been happening to it and its kin. It doesn't take the boy home from the start because its wings are injured.
I haven't played Ico, but regarding Shadow of the Colossus, I felt a much stronger connection with Trico than Argo. I guess it works more for some players than others, but I don't see Argo as intrinsic to the storyline in SoTC as is Trico in this game, despite being an important part of it.
The reason why Trico is so desperate to help you is because he feels guilty from taking you away from your village. I don't think that the mind control erases memories too. I suppose Stockholm Syndrome doesn't really work here since the boy probably doesn't know he got stolen by the beast, at least not until the third vision.
That is just the impression the game made on me. I'm not saying others are wrong.
I didn't get a sense of "guilt' from Trico though - he seems to have sort of a canine level of intellect and I never conceived of him remembering back that far (if he remembers abducting you at all). To me, his adoration for you comes from the fact that you initially save him and become his new "master" and then your relationship grows out of repeatedly helping and saving each other and just from general companionship that grows out of two creatures being isolated together in a big, lonely, dangerous world (a repeated theme in all Team Ico games).
I don't believe it is that dumb. A creature of that size must have a decently sized brain and thus some form of long-term/short-tem memory and basic intellect.
I'm talking about the guilt coming from that memory. He will remember, but I don't think he'll feel guilty for what he did for the simple reason that he won't realize he did something wrong.
He stole children because it was what his master ordered him to do. Animals can be taught to obey orders
I'm talking about the guilt coming from that memory. He will remember, but I don't think he'll feel guilty for what he did for the simple reason that he won't realize he did something wrong.
He stole children because it was what his master ordered him to do. Animals can be taught to obey orders
I'm talking about the guilt coming from that memory. He will remember, but I don't think he'll feel guilty for what he did for the simple reason that he won't realize he did something wrong.
He stole children because it was what his master ordered him to do. Animals can be taught to obey orders
we got was even sadder than Trico dying. The boy assumes Trico is dead even though he is alive and well with a family. But Trico is likely under the assumption the boy is fine. Both mourn
There is absolutely nothing in the story or visual presentation to indicate this in any way. Their relationship is clearly one of growing mutual affection and their need to work together for them to both escape.
There is not a shred of evidence to indicate
neither guilt, nor the fact that Trico even has memory of kidnapping the boy.
There is absolutely nothing in the story or visual presentation to indicate this in any way. Their relationship is clearly one of growing mutual affection and their need to work together for them to both escape.
There is not a shred of evidence to indicate
neither guilt, nor the fact that Trico even has memory of kidnapping the boy.
I don't believe it is that dumb. A creature of that size must have a decently sized brain and thus some form of long-term/short-tem memory and basic intellect.
The blue whale is the largest animal in earth's history, but to my knowledge are not known to be capable of guilt. You're making some odd arguments here. And that's entirely setting aside the speculation that Tricos recall the circumstances from when they're under mind control.
Anyways, it's becoming circular. It's a sticking point for you, fair enough.
The blue whale is the largest animal in earth's history, but to my knowledge are not known to be capable of guilt. You're making some odd arguments here. And that's entirely setting aside the speculation that Tricos recall the circumstances from when they're under mind control.
Anyways, it's becoming circular. It's a sticking point for you, fair enough.
It's not a game with a strong multiplayer element or too much emergent gameplay for people to talk about their experiences with the mechanics over and over, not to mention a lot of people just didn't like it that much, so it's to be expected that it won't have as much conversation as other popular games, but it's not like everyone just forgot about it. It's in my top 5 of all time, it's not the kind of game you just forget about after the hype.
I was so hoping that the boy would be Emon from Shadow of the Colossus and at the end of the game you would see him telling this story around a campfire with Mono and Wander being there among the crowd
I looked desperately for anything, everywhere and I honestly couldn't find one thing beside superficial stuff like climbable vines and similar architecture in a very general sense.
Nothing that can be said as a fact, I guess, but there's some stuff for your own interpretation.
It's vague enough to make it a bit pointless to share, imo, as no one interpretation will be better than the other, but here's what I thought:
In the Glixel interview, Ueda was asked if there's any thematic link between Trico's horns and Ico's horns, to which he answered:
"This is something I hope to leave up to the player's imagination."
This would be the typical "nothing answer", except for the fact that in the same interview as well as many others, Ueda showed that he's not the type of person to try to get credit when it wasn't his intention. He's also questioned about the recurrent themes of sacrifice in his works, to which he answered "This isn't something I do consciously".
Or when he said that the PS3 version of Trico actually had more animations than the final one.
So, in other words, he probably wouldn't say that if it wasn't at least something he considered while making the game, which makes it more valid interpretation than baseless speculation.
Now, back to the scene where Trico kidnaps the boy, remember how he just looked around until he and the boy "resonated" in a way? The boy's eyes were just like Trico's for a moment. He was chosen, but why? The game never actually answers this.
What we do have is the line "Be among the chosen ones". It's said by someone in the tribe, which points to it being some sort of saying in their culture. The way I and many others see it, it's a rationalization to comfort themselves, to make them believe that it wasn't just a futile sacrifice. But why would they believe it's more than just the Man-eating Beast eating someone?
What if not just any child can satisfy the Master of the Valley? What if a special kind of child is needed? So, when the Trico gets to a village and grabs the wrong kid, either by mistake or just not "resonating" with anyone there, the kid is not useful for the Valley. It can't power the self-sufficient mechanism, so that Trico goes back to the same place, to try to find the right one. Until it gets right. From the villagers' perspective, for whatever reason, this particular child was the one that satisfied the beast, and made it so it would let the villagers alone. Hence, "be among the chosen ones".
Then we're left with the question of "what could be the link between the tricos and the chosen ones?". The answer is that we don't really know, but going back to the Ueda quote, and the possible link between Trico's and Ico's horns, and how the horns seem to resonate with the crystals that mind control Trico inside those cages, maybe the connection between them is that the Tricos can track descendants of the horned children, who now, many years later, no longer have horns of their own?
But, as I said, it's all just my speculation, with no solid evidence, so it can't really be considered a real connection, it's more of a head canon, I guess.
It's not a game with a strong multiplayer element or too much emergent gameplay for people to talk about their experiences with the mechanics over and over, not to mention a lot of people just didn't like it that much, so it's to be expected that it won't have as much conversation as other popular games, but it's not like everyone just forgot about it. It's in my top 5 of all time, it's not the kind of game you just forget about after the hype.
It's just generally an erroneous comment, these are all the threads that have been active since the start of February. There's a group of people that I think just sort of want to believe a narrative that after all the years of waiting for TLG, that it released and fizzled, as opposed to it being on many GOTY lists, including #5 on the GAF GOTY list.
after finishing the game once are the exact same characters used for
whatever language Yorda speaks
.
Then there's homages like the windmill seen when Trico first leaps out with you into the outdoors. There's the archetype of the knights, who try to carry you through the doors just like the shadows tried to capture Yorda by dragging her through a shadowy portal. There's stuff like the fact that
both games' main antagonists rely on sacrificial children on a regular basis in order to stay functioning
. And so on. The connections are subtle and usually inexplicit, but they do exist.
What's the evidence for this? I personally think TLG is the earliest, as it's the only one that doesn't feature domesticated horses, and the humans in TLG use more primitive weaponry (basic spears as opposed to enchanted swords). They also have no knowledge of magic, which Emon showed great proficiency with in SotC.
It's just generally an erroneous comment, these are all the threads that have been active since the start of February. There's a group of people that I think just sort of want to believe a narrative that after all the years of waiting for TLG, that it released and fizzled, as opposed to it being on many GOTY lists, including #5 on the GAF GOTY list.
What's the evidence for this? I personally think TLG is the earliest, as it's the only one that doesn't feature domesticated horses, and the humans in TLG use more primitive weaponry (basic spears as opposed to enchanted swords). They also have no knowledge of magic, which Emon showed great proficiency with in SotC.
What's the evidence for this? I personally think TLG is the earliest, as it's the only one that doesn't feature domesticated horses, and the humans in TLG use more primitive weaponry (basic spears as opposed to enchanted swords). They also have no knowledge of magic, which Emon showed great proficiency with in SotC.
The architecture is ****ing MASSIVE, man. I'm not even sure where to put this game in the timeline but to build stuff like this you need some serious tech or magic.
The architecture is ****ing MASSIVE, man. I'm not even sure where to put this game in the timeline but to build stuff like these you need some serious tech or magic.
Pretty much every Ueda game has incredibly impressive architecture, though. The castle in Ico is a marvel of engineering (and magic, as the Queen's defeat shows). It's striking just how little land it's actually built upon.
Meanwhile, the Shrine of Worship from SotC is almost as big as the Empire State Building. It (and the incredible bridge leading to it, also held up by magic) hints at a civilization capable of some crazy building feats.
TLG is kind of an exception in this regard, actually. Yes, the buildings are incredibly impressive, but there's no overt sign that magic was explicitly involved. It seems to be a city constructed around the mysterious white tower, almost as an homage to it. The tower itself still dwarves the other buildings, and when exploring it I felt that it was less magical and more alien - like something otherworldly had found its way to the primitive world of man, who prospered from their superior technology. Of course, something happened afterwards, and now the valley is just home to
the Master, who controls everything from the knights to the other Tricos
. Then, I think, came the magic, and its usage in the other games. Not completely sure about it, but it just seems to piece together a lot better that way.
TLG is kind of an exception in this regard, actually. Yes, the buildings are incredibly impressive, but there's no overt sign that magic was explicitly involved. It seems to be a city constructed around the mysterious white tower, almost as an homage to it. The tower itself still dwarves the other buildings, and when exploring it I felt that it was less magical and more alien - like something otherworldly had found its way to the primitive world of man, who prospered from their superior technology. Of course, something happened afterwards, and now the valley is just home to
the Master, who controls everything from the knights to the other Tricos
. Then, I think, came the magic, and its usage in the other games. Not completely sure about it, but it just seems to piece together a lot better that way.
I wish Trico would have kicked a little more ass. I really wanted the satisfying moment of Trico getting a few good shots in on bad Trico.
Loved the ending, it was heartbreaking watching it play out but after the credits, you see that it ultimately has a happy ending. I just wanted to see the reunion between Trico and the boy as an old man. But I guess they leave what happens next to the imagination.
One of my favorite games of all time, really amazing.
The beast is guilty it took you away and the boy just kind of tags along with it's captor until it finally decides to return him to the village.[/SPOILER] I really felt no emotional attachment to the beast despite the game wanting you to (I think).
I'm honestly surprised by this opinion.
Maybe I'm wrong, but didn't Trico
act against his (her?) own will at that point? Trico doesn't just decide to return you to your village. That's what you and Trico are working towards for the entire game.
Ugh, so frustrated right now. I wanted to like this game so much but I'm having a lot of trouble doing so.
Struggling with the controls, finding the environment boring and unvaried... feels like I'm playing a collection of the worst parts of Uncharted 4 - climbing, climbing, climbing.
I'm going to get some sleep and try again in the morning.
Ugh, so frustrated right now. I wanted to like this game so much but I'm having a lot of trouble doing so.
Struggling with the controls, finding the environment boring and unvaried... feels like I'm playing a collection of the worst parts of Uncharted 4 - climbing, climbing, climbing.
I'm going to get some sleep and try again in the morning.
Oddly enough it's a puzzle game that I actually loved. Much like Ueda's previous effort. But ICO ain't for me just like most other puzzle games. I usually find them boring as shit.
The Last Guardian is a great game. SoTC is a GOAT game. Funny how one of my most highly regarded and favorite game is from a genre I generally dislike.
Finally finished the game. It wasn't abysmal but it doesn't come even close to both Ico or SotC, a decent game in general. I never formed a connection with the beast like I did with Mono, Agro and Yorda. I just never felt like there needed to be any connection. You just did your things and moved forward along the same path.
It felt like Stockholm Syndrome the game.
The beast is guilty it took you away and the boy just kind of tags along with it's captor until it finally decides to return him to the village.
I really felt no emotional attachment to the beast despite the game wanting you to (I think).
But I think the tail ripping and Trico ultimately being sent away from the village instead of a happy coexistence were pretty symbolic.
Anyway, the boy isn't an idiot. Its pretty obvious the Tricos are controlled against their will. The distress Trico shows every time he loses the boy shows it.
Ugh, so frustrated right now. I wanted to like this game so much but I'm having a lot of trouble doing so.
Struggling with the controls, finding the environment boring and unvaried... feels like I'm playing a collection of the worst parts of Uncharted 4 - climbing, climbing, climbing.
I'm going to get some sleep and try again in the morning.
It gets A LOT better after the E3 part. Up until that point I really didn't like the game all that much but I finally got into it once I reached the E3 part.
Finally finished writing down some impressions. I tried to avoid spoilers as best as I can and made a lot of comparisons to both ICO and SotC. Wall of text warning
It's been a while since I finished the game, so my impressions aren't fresh anymore, but I want to share them anyway since I want to get some stuff off my chest.
Shadow of the Colossus is one of the greatest games ever. It's a game I played as a teenager and I already knew back then that I was playing an amazing game. A gigantic and at times beautiful world that felt very natural, colossi that were very unique in their design and fighting them felt like a puzzle that has to be approached in interesting ways. It was a game that was constantly on my mind when I was at school. I wanted to continue exploring the world on Agro's back. I didn't consider this game to be a masterpiece until much later though when I started to appreciate the game's design for different aspects. Its deep lore, that feeling of solitude and helplessness, the weird sympathy you feel for the giant colossi as they fall for their deaths after you struck them down with your sword and a lot more.
The reason I waited so long to post my impressions is that The Last Guardian is very similar in that regard. In fact, every Ueda game got better in retrospect. The difference for me lies in the perception of the game while playing it. Mind you, I was able to immerse myself in ICO's world, but the game itself, in its core, felt a little stale at first. It wasn't until I finished the game and the ending credits rolled that I realized what kind of game I had just experienced. I also started liking the game for its gameplay when I replayed it much later.
The Last Guardian is a flawed masterpiece. From a technical standpoint, the game has its ups and downs. The graphics are great, especially with the right lighting. Some later parts in the game looked absolutely stunning and looking at some of my screenshots, I can see why this game could never run on a PS3. The particles constantly flying around, Trico's feathers moving seemingly independent to each other. It might not look that great at first, but you start noticing the details and you realize just how gorgeous the game actually is sometimes. Tricoss animations are also a sight to behold. In Shadow of the Colossus, Agros animations far exceeded my expectations when it comes to how a horse animates in games. In many cases, even today, a horse is nothing but a car with legs. Agro felt more alive though, which made it easier to form an emotional bond to him. Trico is the same. His animations made him feel more alive and standing around watching him was pleasing to the eyes. It is a game where the whole is more than the sum of its parts, even though you can clearly tell how long this game took to come out by some of the low-res textures.
The sound is another aspect that was done pretty damn well. I would always recommend playing this game with headphones on to notice the insane amount of detail that went into this games sound design (just dont put your headphones in the controllers headphone jack if possible). Most of the time there is no music, so there was no easy way to deliver atmosphere. When I think of Shadow of the Colossus soundtrack, I think of the opening, ending and the epic fights with the colossi which would perfectly complement the feeling when you pan up and realize what a giant opponent youre facing. It was daunting and the music added a great amount of atmosphere to it. Everything else was rather quiet and you would only hear Agros galloping and Wander shouting. ICOs sound mostly consisted of the blowing wind or waterfalls if I remember correctly. Music was saved for save points and the ending.
The Last Guardian is very similar. You would constantly hear your surroundings and Tricos noises. You could easily hear out the mood Trico is in without looking at him/her (still not sure, is it male or female?). Music was only played at special occasions and it came off great for that reason. The ending in particular has one of my favorite tracks.
Of all the aspects that make The Last Guardian great, its Gameplay is probably the most polarizing one. Some people love it, some people hate it. I was one of the lucky people who had no issues whatsoever, be it with Tricos AI or the controls. To me the boy was animated in an interesting way. As people have mentioned, his animations are physics based and as a result, so are the controls. It would look goofy sometimes when you trip on virtually nothing, but seeing the boy hit a rock or fall down a cliff would also sometimes make me cringe in pain (not sure if this is the right word in this context). In contrast to ICO, you werent the one taking on the fights this time. Without Trico, youre basically defenseless and have to take on a rather passive role, guiding the enemies to where Trico is. There were some issues with the camera, especially in tight spaces, but these could normally be solved by pressing L1 or letting the camera readjust itself (the fades to black were annoying though).
I love TLGs puzzles. They werent really innovative or hard to solve. On the contrary, the puzzles almost always had a very obvious and natural solution. The terrain is also almost always shaped in a very convenient way for the puzzle to work out the way its supposed to. In fact, the solution was so obvious sometimes that I didnt think of it at first. Games have taught me to think in convoluted ways when it comes to puzzles, which is why I consider TLGs puzzles to not be very game-y in a way. As I said, the puzzles were not really innovative or super special, but I appreciate the simpleness in their design. It lead to you not needing a lot of hints, which the game rarely gives you anyway, so the solution was more satisfying as a result although there werent a lot of aha moments. The game also contains two of my favourite puzzles in quite a long time
the cart wheel launch and the water level
, so it has that going for it too.
Trico has been a great companion on my journey. I saw threads popping up about how frustrating it was to give Trico orders, but I was surprised by how well he responded to mine most of the time. He almost felt alive by the way he reacted sometimes and I would occasionally forget that its an AI and not a real animal accompanying me. Sometimes he would be occupied with more important matters like bathing in a puddle of water or staring at random stuff around, but it never felt like he was unnecessarily stubborn or unresponsive. There were some issues when it came to communication in some scenes though, especially the one where you had to climb up Tricos tail when you fell down into the pool of water (this scene has been talked about quite a lot a few pages back), but this could normally be solved for me by being patient and giving Trico some time (some people stumbled upon a few bugs though, so reloading might be another solution for some problems).
Whenever I entered a new area and didnt know how to proceed I would closely watch Trico observing the scene and focusing on certain parts of the area. Sometimes he would suddenly reach to a platform or stand up in front of a wall for me to climb up.
The story is something that only really works as a game, since character development and the friendship growing between the two characters is something that isnt told but rather felt and experienced, as corny as that might sound.
The lack of Tricos ability to speak made conveying feelings harder or even a little less impactful if handled wrong. The astonishing amount of detail that went into the creatures facial expressions and body language made up for it though and feelings like joy, fear and anger are easily made out by watching him. Communicating with Trico feels like another puzzle that has to be solved on your own, which makes for a mesmerizing experience as you make your way out of the tower together.
As you may have noticed, my impressions might be overly positive and there might be a few issues that I did not see as such, but this only reflects my experience with the game as a whole. This is easily one of my favourite games of this generation. It might not reach the heights that Shadow of the Colossus reached back in the day, but it is a game that I will remember fondly for a long time and one that can be easily added to the all time greatest.
Just beat it 5 minutes ago. Very conflicted. Hard to give a 'hot take' on a game like this, where the highs are so high and the lows are so low.
I will say that I was unfortunate in that Trico obeyed me all the way through the game... until the last two hours when I started having tons and tons of trouble with him out of the blue. Waiting 10 minutes for him to make an obvious jump. That kind of thing. It started making me really angry and because I was in that frame of mind the emotional stuff at the end just didn't hit home like it was supposed to. At that stage I had stopped calling him 'Turrico' and started calling him 'You cunt', which shows that the game had lost me emotionally through the frustration of the gameplay.
The game took me two months to play through. I'd find any excuse not to play it. Because, if I'm honest with myself, it was a chore to play. The puzzles weren't clever, climbing and navigating with Trico wasn't responsive or challenging, just frustrating, and running from the stone warriors and struggling with them was some of the poorest gameplay I've played in a long time. There was never really a time I said to myself 'Yeah, I'm having fun here.' The set-pieces were brilliant... but when that's the case it really just shines a light on the fact that the game was style rather than substance. The game was far better when you were outside and Trico had some room to breath, but then 75% of the game is narrow passages where you're getting trampled under Trico's feet and the camera is freaking out. The level design just didn't compliment Trico's abilities at all, I felt. It was claustrophobic and dull.
Obviously the visuals, audio and animation were superb. Trico himself was worth the price of admission. I did love him, despite the frustration at the end. He stands as a major achievement in game design, imo. And the art design, the world... it was pulled right out of the game of my dreams. But I can't ignore how bored and frustrated I was during most of the game. Halfway through I decided to look up a guide any time I got stuck, because I wanted to make sure it wasn't me not knowing what to do, but rather the game having issues. And it was always the game, rather than me not doing the right thing. And then I got stuck very near the end, checked the guide, and this one time I hadn't noticed something and hadn't been doing the right thing. And I realised that my faith in the game systems had broken down so much that I hadn't even given the level design a chance any more - I was just approaching each section assuming in advance that it was broken in some way. And that's sad, and yet it's a large part of what I'll remember.
Also, the ending and reveals were weak. There wasn't much to this tale in the end. I was hoping for a lot more.
This game is definitely an exercise in frustration. You have to hold the stick all the way up for the kid to run, any less than that and he just slowly walks. I really like the open area and the game definitely picks up after the E3 section. I do like the game and I keep coming back to it the next day, but go damn these technical problems.
Ugh, so frustrated right now. I wanted to like this game so much but I'm having a lot of trouble doing so.
Struggling with the controls, finding the environment boring and unvaried... feels like I'm playing a collection of the worst parts of Uncharted 4 - climbing, climbing, climbing.
I'm going to get some sleep and try again in the morning.
So i just finished playing this a little earlier today and actually felt exactly how you do until about 1/3 of the way through the game. The thing that changed for me... I used a walkthrough, lol. I don't have the time to spend wandering around trying to figure out what do during the game, especially with such a similarly palette environment. I will say that by the end I really enjoyed the game, and most of all the relationship between Trico and the boy.
Okay I've been playing my brothers PS4 and trying to get through Bloodborne, yesterday i was frustrated knocking my head against Ludwig and finally decided to give it a break and try The Last Guardian, which i've been quite excited about after loving SOTC but also a bit hesitant to try after reading some comments.
So yeah 10 hours later I've completed it and loved every minute of it. I can see where the criticisms are coming from but got to feel they are kinda overblown, the presentation and atmosphere is absolutely superb and the few minor control problems I had were nowhere near the issues I've read. This is without a doubt one of the top of my list for games this generation.
