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The Last of Us Pt II |OT| Oh Ellie...I think they should be terrified of you
Classicrockfan
Banned
How far am I I just beat the big guy with the hammer weapon from the gameplay trailers.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Thanks. Didn't realise that!
I started at survivor, it was ridiculous in how it doesn't give you any bullets even if you kill armed enemies with stealth. Spent the first 8-10 hours mostly using melee and stealth kills. Had to go the menu and only change the "resources" to pull it down to moderate, it made it "less" ridiculous only, but bearable. Difficulty overall is good, not too hard, nor too easy at survivor, not as hard as GOW though.
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ColonialRaptor
Member
I don’t know how accurate I am being here because I haven’t finished but from what I’ve seen of what other people’s are saying about percentages you’re about 30%
I think it’s kind difficult for media people to say they have a lot of fun slaughtering people but I’m with you it’s fun as hell! I look forward to going and playing around with encounters and seeing how different paths and reactions cause different events. I mean it’s almost impossible to survive going full loud in hard so it will be fun to try and manage that on survivor. God I love this game.
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Classicrockfan
Banned
Damn hope your right I just don’t want the experience to end.thanks.
TheSadRanger
Banned
Nah bruh, this game shits down the throat of fans of the original and asks them to enjoy it. The combat is fine but everything involving the overall plot is trash. The first is one of my favorite games of all time and the story of this one was like forcing me to participate in some two girls one cup shit.
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Bo_Hazem
Banned
Well, I loved Joel a lot, and would've preferred him to continue as a main protagonist, but the decisions made by ND I personally think they're not bad at all, I actually love the story a lot and gives a unique taste of story-telling instead of forcing what's right and wrong in a game/movie.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
I'm playing a second time and the editing in this game is trash.
There's more but I think that would have tightened it right up and allowed us to enjoy playing as Abby.
First of all get rid of the pointless guitar mini game and the snowball fight. Also get rid of the 'bigot' scene which adds absolutely nothing to anything.
1: The start of the game 'proper' should have been the scene with Ellie and Joel going to the museum with the dinosaurs. It should have been the culmination of a much longer 'gameplay' section so we could enjoy playing as Joel
2: The next scene should have been the first Dina and Ellie gameplay section
3: The next scene should have been Joel and Tommy playing up to the point of Joel saving Abby
4: We should then have played as Abby (a much more relatable and realistic female) up to the point where Joel saves her. That scene would end as they get inside the gates and enter the building (before we know something is up). Most people couldn't enjoy playing as Abby because of what she did but if they didn't know what she was about to do, that would have not been an issue. Because we'd played free of baggage, the messaging of 'who are the bad guys' would have resonated far better when that scene eventually came around. You do not create a torturer and then try and make people sympathise with them. That was STUPID.
5: Now we cut back to the Dina and Ellie gameplay and find our way to the ranch location and the torture/death of Jeol. Now it means something because that death is earned and people have reconnected with Joel. Neil robbed people of the one thing they were looking forward to and even lied in the promos.
6: We begin the hunt, taking Dina along to Seattle.
1: The start of the game 'proper' should have been the scene with Ellie and Joel going to the museum with the dinosaurs. It should have been the culmination of a much longer 'gameplay' section so we could enjoy playing as Joel
2: The next scene should have been the first Dina and Ellie gameplay section
3: The next scene should have been Joel and Tommy playing up to the point of Joel saving Abby
4: We should then have played as Abby (a much more relatable and realistic female) up to the point where Joel saves her. That scene would end as they get inside the gates and enter the building (before we know something is up). Most people couldn't enjoy playing as Abby because of what she did but if they didn't know what she was about to do, that would have not been an issue. Because we'd played free of baggage, the messaging of 'who are the bad guys' would have resonated far better when that scene eventually came around. You do not create a torturer and then try and make people sympathise with them. That was STUPID.
5: Now we cut back to the Dina and Ellie gameplay and find our way to the ranch location and the torture/death of Jeol. Now it means something because that death is earned and people have reconnected with Joel. Neil robbed people of the one thing they were looking forward to and even lied in the promos.
6: We begin the hunt, taking Dina along to Seattle.
There's more but I think that would have tightened it right up and allowed us to enjoy playing as Abby.
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TissueBox
Member
Neat in-game thing you can see in certain contexts (second half spoilers):
GribbleGrunger
ALSO sorry but was that a Freudian slip or -- ahem -- an actual thing? 'Cause that woulda been a decent surprise if it was the latter ya know. >_< (Not that it would be too unexpected.)
Triggering Abby's vertigo by approaching ledges.
GribbleGrunger
ALSO sorry but was that a Freudian slip or -- ahem -- an actual thing? 'Cause that woulda been a decent surprise if it was the latter ya know. >_< (Not that it would be too unexpected.)
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GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
Neat in-game thing you can see in certain contexts (second half spoilers):
Triggering Abby's vertigo by approaching ledges.
I meant Abby.
Shmunter
Member
Interesting developments. Is it down to sjw preaching or just general deficiencies in the game?
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
General deficiencies in the game and that 'agenda'. It was there without question and definitely not subtle.
TissueBox
Member
I meant Abby.
Ahah okay gotcha. Caught me blinking there for a second. xP
In fairness even if that was an actual thing I wouldn't have minded it. I have a basic checklist of things I suspect ND will do with the narrative down the road, so it should be interesting if one of 'em turns out correct. (The big mid-game thing was already spoiled for me anyhow. At this point I'm just, 'Nowhere to go now but up cowboy.')
(The big mid-game thing was already spoiled for me anyhow. At this point I'm just, 'Nowhere to go now but up cowboy.')
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Shmunter
Member
Dammit
TheSadRanger
Banned
It was THAT BAD for me, it's like ND telling me "fuck you we don't want you to play our game."
The first game was a game I played through multiple times. I never want to play this game again and I might be done with ND and I've played ND games for over 20 years. After finishing this I can see exactly why Amy Hennig got forced out. I mean it's whatever, ND is dead to me.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
Here's my take on the story and the entire situation.
Neil is the creative director, so decides where the story goes. Here are some comments from Troy Baker and Neil Druckmann.
Druckmann
Baker
Was he expecting this much backlash? I don't know.
For the most part, I think the story is fine. It's not written to be a good story, but I do have some issues with it because I don't think it's perfect.
Few examples:
I like creating stories and if I was creating a sequel to a beloved franchise, I would try not to upset my fan base.
How this would change the franchise going forward still remains to be seen. If I was rich with bucket loads of money, I would go back and make story changes to appease the fan base. If not, then I would just try to undo any damage that was done to the fan base in part III.
Neil is the creative director, so decides where the story goes. Here are some comments from Troy Baker and Neil Druckmann.
Druckmann
Baker
Was he expecting this much backlash? I don't know.
For the most part, I think the story is fine. It's not written to be a good story, but I do have some issues with it because I don't think it's perfect.
Few examples:
Jesse dying with no buildup. It was just him running out of the door and getting shot.
Lev trans story seems dumb to me. I really don't like this character at all.
Lev trans story seems dumb to me. I really don't like this character at all.
I like creating stories and if I was creating a sequel to a beloved franchise, I would try not to upset my fan base.
How this would change the franchise going forward still remains to be seen. If I was rich with bucket loads of money, I would go back and make story changes to appease the fan base. If not, then I would just try to undo any damage that was done to the fan base in part III.
Keihart
Member
Bending over backwards to your fan base it's the most spineless thing to do, it's just pandering to a different group.
Also, the the first trailer was really obvious about how this game starts and the ending of the first game basically foreshadows what could happen if the characters get some karma thrown their way.
I have yet to finish the game, but the characters getting shit thrown their way as some form of plot karma feels very deserved and in line with the first game's tone.
Also, the the first trailer was really obvious about how this game starts and the ending of the first game basically foreshadows what could happen if the characters get some karma thrown their way.
I have yet to finish the game, but the characters getting shit thrown their way as some form of plot karma feels very deserved and in line with the first game's tone.
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TissueBox
Member
Just found the best part of the game. The catch -- I completely missed it, and had to look it up on Youtube.
[HEADS-UP: Beware of possible spoilers from the related video thumbnails and, potentially, comments! You've been forewarned.]
This, this is an optional cutscene, motherhuggers (excuse the language). By the gods, I don't know if I should feel touched or indignant that I didn't come across this.
'Nyway. Back to bricking suckers.
[HEADS-UP: Beware of possible spoilers from the related video thumbnails and, potentially, comments! You've been forewarned.]
This, this is an optional cutscene, motherhuggers (excuse the language). By the gods, I don't know if I should feel touched or indignant that I didn't come across this.
'Nyway. Back to bricking suckers.
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TheSadRanger
Banned
Hard disagree, Joel and didn't go out of there way to hurt anyone in the first game that wasn't shooting at them first. Which is why they were helping Henry and Sam who were part of a normal group of survivors before they got torn to shreds by Hunters.
Keihart
Member
Joel was a smuggler who did very questionable things before meeting Ellie. During the the trip Joel and Ellie kill soldiers, even if justified from the protagonist perspective, every one of those had relatives that probably felt wronged.
Even at the end, killing Marlene was not self defense, but assurance.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
They were portrayed as terrorist group and "not 100%" they will make a cure. That game is so amazing because of that ending where Joel "might have" doomed humanity because of love... and it showed use that humanity might not be worth saving
Cracklox
Member
Agree.
Also the 2 doctors at the end. They didn't need to be killed. One held up a scalpel sure, but Joels a pretty tough dude, who could've easily subdued them without needing to kill them.
I remember that being a contentious talking point back when the first game game came out, when it came to discussing Joels character.
And now that decision caught up with him. Bravo ND. Ballsy stuff. #VideogameBadGuysLivesMatter
TissueBox
Member
Everyone argues about the original game's ending and Neil is just sitting in the back drinking a marguerita.
The point of TLOU's ending was this: 'How far would you go to save the one you love?'
The point was, 'If the choice was a dilemma, and the dilemma was a trade-off, and the things being traded were mutually exclusive from the other, what would you choose -- the world, or that person you love?'
The plot specifics don't really matter. It works well enough. What the game is trying to do is make you care for characters who would trade the world for each other. And then how the difference between right and wrong becomes complicated in the face of passion.
The point of TLOU's ending was this: 'How far would you go to save the one you love?'
The point was, 'If the choice was a dilemma, and the dilemma was a trade-off, and the things being traded were mutually exclusive from the other, what would you choose -- the world, or that person you love?'
The plot specifics don't really matter. It works well enough. What the game is trying to do is make you care for characters who would trade the world for each other. And then how the difference between right and wrong becomes complicated in the face of passion.
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Balducci30
Member
Actually this would've worked way better in one specific way
If you play a long time with Abby BEFORE she kills Joel. If you could get people to sympathize with her and love her before you know what she does it would've worked a lot better. Someone said in a YouTube comment the game fails at what it's trying to do because if players were given an option at the end almost all of them would've killed Abby still. They gave themselves an impossible task with trying their best to make you see her point of view in the second half by quite obviously attempting to recreate a redemption arc for her as they did with Joel, in a very try hard way. Problem is we never saw the horrible things Joel did beforehand so we had an ability to develop an attachment. My only thought is that they did it this way to allow for us to have another sequel where you play as Abby in the future?
Geki-D
Banned
Huh? Got them same places as you on my current survivor playthrough. Maybe you're seeing NG+ stuff?So...i got the gun holster in seattle day two and the long gun belt in the first open area of seattle day 1, what gives? i've seen people having the gun holster on day 1.
I wonder if they are duplicated, kinda random allocated or it's just the difficulty settings
Yeah, it's really clear what the intended purpose of the ending was, through the game itself and the reactions of everyone who beat it when it came out (not to mention the guy who wrote both games reconfirming it in the sequel). The ending just doesn't work at all if you go off the idea that Joel didn't believe the cure was possible because in that case he's no longer making a morally ambiguous choice, he's just saving Ellie from yet another situation just like he does at several other points in the game. Getting her out of the hospital is suddenly barely any different than pulling her from the arms of the hunters in Pittsburgh.
It's a shame so many people have been caught up in fan theories and let it colour their view of the whole series. All they're really doing is ruining it for themselves.
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GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
Yes, that's why I arranged it that way. Of course, there would have to also be a lot of tinkering with the little sections we often flash back to but it would still work. Neil created someone you hate and then expected us to immediately enjoy playing as her. That's an impossible task for at least the first hour and then even beyond that you literally have to do the opposite of what Neil would want to continue: You have to 'forget' what Abby did in order to enjoy 'playing' the game, immediately destroying the whole point of a story driven game. For 10 hours I no longer cared about the story of TLOU2 and didn't enjoy some amazing set pieces because of it.
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carlosrox
Banned
At the first real full battle in the game now (Seattle Day Two) and the combat and stealth are amazing. I saved my game here and started playing around and practicing. Perfect time to end my hours n hours long session for today.
Can't wait to jump back in. What an engrossing game. Every inch of this world is packed with gorgeous details and art.
The faux outrage surrounding this game is fucking ridiculous.
Can't wait to jump back in. What an engrossing game. Every inch of this world is packed with gorgeous details and art.
The faux outrage surrounding this game is fucking ridiculous.
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Explosive Zombie
Banned
Exactly this.
BlitzerRadic
Member
So does anyone have a theory on why Neil designed Abby the way he did? She's not lesbian or trans so I don't see the SJW angle there.
To be honest, I did not enjoy Abby's playthrough. A large part of it is because she looks like a Soviet Cold War era women's power lifter.
To be honest, I did not enjoy Abby's playthrough. A large part of it is because she looks like a Soviet Cold War era women's power lifter.
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Keihart
Member
pretty sure they were first play-through on normal, i'm intrigued now, maybe it is the difficulty settings.
Keihart
Member
i'm barely at day 2, but as i've said before, her combat style matches her appearance just as Ellies does. Maybe this was part of the reason?
I also got the impression, on the opening, that she had a grudge already for a long time and it made me think that she's being putting all that hate in training, no idea if it's the case, but it fit my first impression of her.
She is the Chris Redfield of TLoU for me.
Autism.
Explosive Zombie
Banned
He wanted the two characters you play as to have different playstyles, if he had made Abby a man then he knew people wouldn't at all be able to handle certain specific sequences she has.
Bryank75
Banned
Ok, just finished there.... strong ending, it actually nearly changed my mind about the whole thing but there are certain imbalances there.
The agenda is strong and the writing at times can be very ham fisted the way it tries to convey it. I also think that Abby would have been more relatable if Joels death was not so brutal.
Abby is still a shit person and just because she has guilt, doesn't mean anything in terms of balance.
It's a very memorable experience, it will definitely be talked about for many years.
All in all I think the game was more about Joel than anything else and how much he meant to Ellie, she was willing to give up everything... destroy her own life and prospects for happiness for his memory.
GOTY but I couldn't score it.
The agenda is strong and the writing at times can be very ham fisted the way it tries to convey it. I also think that Abby would have been more relatable if Joels death was not so brutal.
Abby is still a shit person and just because she has guilt, doesn't mean anything in terms of balance.
It's a very memorable experience, it will definitely be talked about for many years.
All in all I think the game was more about Joel than anything else and how much he meant to Ellie, she was willing to give up everything... destroy her own life and prospects for happiness for his memory.
GOTY but I couldn't score it.
Arun1910
Member
Finished the game after 26 hours. So much to digest but I loved it.
Really makes you question morality, notice that every story has 2 sides. Everyone is a survivor in this world and you get to see this as well as the consequences of everyones actions.
I cannot score this yet as I need to settle on it and then play through it one more time, but it answered a lot of questions I had and felt like a nicely wrapped up package overall.
Really makes you question morality, notice that every story has 2 sides. Everyone is a survivor in this world and you get to see this as well as the consequences of everyones actions.
I cannot score this yet as I need to settle on it and then play through it one more time, but it answered a lot of questions I had and felt like a nicely wrapped up package overall.
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xrnzaaas
Member
So how's this special mode for blind people looking?
PanzerAzel
Member
I think it's fairly obvious that he's pandering to the trans community. I might not think that had Lev not been included with her story about her gender identity, and how nearly every single female NPC at the WLF base was very androgynous and all had male bodies with female heads. Hell, even Ellie at the end had broad shoulders and the figure of a man. It's not narratively justified inside the fiction, it's done due to ideology outside of it.
Just finished the game. "Encounters". I'm a very happy man, thanks ND.
What a treat. Anyone know if it's possible to play with the weapons fully upgraded?
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Arun1910
Member
People will say the LGBT stuff is pushing agendas, whereas I just see it as a mirror of society today. Imo it made the game feel more realistic in a sense.
yeeeeeezy
Banned
Please elaborate. The only thing that has raised my sjw radar is the ‘bigot sandwhich’ comment from the very beginning.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
Cracklox
Member
Yup. I'm just over 20 hours in and only around half way or so. No way I'll be done inside 30.
Its a good game to get your slow walk on and just soak everything in. Maybe one of the best. And its got some neat stuff off the beaten path too when you take the time to explore a bit. Things like some little environmental puzzles or the safes you need to figure out the combo for. The safe that had the combo of the last 6 digits of some girls mobile number and how you find it gave me a good chuckle
GymWolf
Gold Member
So when the story goes to shit exactly? I'm doing the second flashback with tommy and for now is an acceptable revenge story without much nonsense, not top tier story in videogames but acceptable nevertheless.
Are characters going to behave like batshit monkeys any time soon?!
Are characters going to behave like batshit monkeys any time soon?!