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[Muscle Wizard]

They are really slow though. I wonder how fast Hanar can float? I would have liked some non human ship crew.

Elcor are walking artillery. They can take all the time they want.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

They are really slow though. I wonder how fast Hanar can float? I would have liked some non human ship crew.

Volus quartermaster

Elcor heavy weapons guy

Hanar therapist/secretary

 

[inky]

This kind of design for aliens is lazy

Ehh... Asari design by itself is not lazy. It's pretty blunt, but I actually thought it was a neat nod to the genre, just as the alliance logo, etc.

What is lazy is the usual unidimensionality ascribed to alien races, while humans are the complex, adaptable ones. And what bothers me even more is that they go out of their way to explain why these limitations exist, like, why there aren't Krogan scientists, etc. That I would say is extremely lazy.

 

[Ralemont]

But you expect me to buy that multiple other species would not only have super attractive facial features, but basically look exactly like 21st century white women? That's "nazi humans in space" level of Star Trek plausibility for "convergent evolution".

Well...basically, yeah I do expect you to buy it, considering the series. I didn't say the convergent evolution theory was plausible, but a convenient excuse is more than enough for me to not worry about it.

At the very least, you'll be saving yourself a lot of frustration by not expecting a piece of pop sci-fi like Mass Effect to discard every genre trope that makes the genre enjoyable to the non-nerds.

 

[Bisnic]

Nope.

I was on board for an Elcor squadmate in ME3 but it never happened ;(

Hanars do move, see Citadel DLC. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=skg2kkCykGE#t=101

Not sure about Elcors. I think in Omega DLC? I remember seeing one moving in ME2 Citadel.

 

[Muscle Wizard]

Volus quartermaster

Elcor heavy weapons guy

Hanar therapist/secretary

I think you mean Volus Biotic-God

 

[Muscle Wizard]

Hanars do move, see Citadel DLC. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=skg2kkCykGE#t=101

Not sure about Elcors. I think in Omega DLC? I remember seeing one moving in ME2 Citadel.

New plan: Make Mass Effect 4 essentially the 60 hour version of the Citadel DLC.

 

[HK-47]

Ehh... Asari design by itself is not lazy. It's pretty blunt, but I actually thought it was a neat nod to the genre, just as the alliance logo, etc.

What is lazy is the usual unidimensionality ascribed to alien races, while humans are the complex, adaptable ones. And what bothers me even more is that they go out of their way to explain why these limitations exist, like, why there aren't Krogan scientists, etc. That I would say is extremely lazy.

It got really hilarious as they tried to push the "humans are special" shit. Like Harbinger with his reasons for why all the other species arent as super awesome. It just comes off as simplistic and stupid. A planet of hats for everyone!

 

[HK-47]

Well...basically, yeah I do expect you to buy it, considering the series. I didn't say the convergent evolution theory was plausible, but a convenient excuse is more than enough for me to not worry about it.

At the very least, you'll be saving yourself a lot of frustration by not expecting a piece of pop sci-fi like Mass Effect to discard every genre trope that makes the genre enjoyable to the non-nerds.

I wasnt aware thats what he was saying.

 

[Deadstar]

Mass Effect 1 was the best, then it was all downhill from there since it turned into Gears of Effect. Though I will say the combat in 2 and 3 was fun and better than 3, I preferred the overall pacing of the first game. I also thought the mako was the best and exploring planets was really fun. ME2 and 3 felt like very small games in comparison.

 

[Daemul]

New plan: Make Mass Effect 4 essentially the 60 hour version of the Citadel DLC.

Citadel was only as good as it was because it had three games worth of material to work with and make jokes about. The entire DLC was made up of inside jokes, like the N7 Fury complaining to the Alliance Procurement Officer about not getting sent the biotic upgrades she needed, which was a reference to the MP RNG store not giving players the shit they want but instead giving them the shit they don't need, or the conversation with the Vorcha Soldier and the Human Infiltrator complaining about randoms, which was a reference to PUG teams sucking and Vanguards being reckless.

The DLC wouldn't have worked without being able to use references like that, Mass Effect 4 has nothing to call back on so it would suck if they tried to make it a 60 hour Citadel DLC, it would get stale real quick. Ffs, even the Citadel DLC humour starts to get stale after a couple of runs through it.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Hanars do move, see Citadel DLC. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=skg2kkCykGE#t=101

Not sure about Elcors. I think in Omega DLC? I remember seeing one moving in ME2 Citadel.

I don't recall any Elcor ever moving. I don't have Citadel DLC though, so I never saw the Hanar.

 

[Sou Da]

I don't recall any Elcor ever moving. I don't have Citadel DLC though, so I never saw the Hanar.

I remember one roaming around. Would have liked to see them with the mounted guns.

 

[HK-47]

Citadel was only as good as it was because it had three games worth of material to work with and make jokes about. The entire DLC was made up of inside jokes, like the N7 Fury complaining to the Alliance Procurement Officer about not getting sent the biotic upgrades she needed, which was a reference to the MP RNG store not giving players the shit they want but instead giving them the shit they don't need, or the conversation with the Vorcha Soldier and the Human Infiltrator complaining about randoms, which was a reference to PUG teams sucking and Vanguards being reckless.

The DLC wouldn't have worked without being able to use references like that, Mass Effect 4 has nothing to call back on so it would suck if they tried to make it a 60 hour Citadel DLC, it would get stale real quick. Ffs, even the Citadel DLC humour starts to get stale after a couple of runs through it.

Yup you cant do DLC like that without history to back it up.

 

[DedValve]

Ehh... Asari design by itself is not lazy. It's pretty blunt, but I actually thought it was a neat nod to the genre, just as the alliance logo, etc.

What is lazy is the usual unidimensionality ascribed to alien races, while humans are the complex, adaptable ones. And what bothers me even more is that they go out of their way to explain why these limitations exist, like, why there aren't Krogan scientists, etc. That I would say is extremely lazy.

Well there where Krogan scientists. They built computers and nuclear weapons.

But I agree that by ME2/3 they went all in on humans being oh so special. Harbinger raised some valid points on other species (Krogan, Salarian) but I lol'd that he chose us over Turians and Asari.

Also that Hanar movement....yikes. I'd much rather my headcanon that they just float for reasons.

 

[Ivory Samoan]

Well there where Krogan scientists. They built computers and nuclear weapons.

But I agree that by ME2/3 they went all in on humans being oh so special. Harbinger raised some valid points on other species (Krogan, Salarian) but I lol'd that he chose us over Turians and Asari.

Also that Hanar movement....yikes. I'd much rather my headcanon that they just float for reasons.

Krogan scientist on Tuchanka when you're there too: best upgrades at that shop, love it.

Personally, I love the human pride angle taken by the writers.. I liked the buzz of us being special.

 

[SnakeEyes]

Volus quartermaster

Elcor heavy weapons guy

Hanar therapist/secretary

Should have been an Elcor Tank/Volus Gunner. Two-man teams are the best.

 

[shinobi602]

I already said I'm ok with most races being bipedal and using hands for tools and such, it's the specifics that bother me. Like Asari, Quarian having exactly human faces and boobs. Even our closest living relatives on Earth look nothing like us, and other human species of our own past, who were, intelligence and dexterity wise equally viable as space faring civilizations (e.g. Neanderthals) would look hideous on average because of relatively minor differences in face structure. But you expect me to buy that multiple other species would not only have super attractive facial features, but basically look exactly like 21st century white women? That's "nazi humans in space" level of Star Trek plausibility for "convergent evolution".

Convergent evolution produced lions and tigers, which while obviously similar and share huge amounts of their DNA, still look very different. This kind of design for aliens is lazy, and it's very disappointing considering they got so many other species done "right". Quarians have physiological differences like wierd feet and knees, different body proportions etc. Then when they finally reveal their face, surprise, it's a sexy night elf.

If I believed this was some innocent mistake and the artists didn't think about it, or that there were major reasons they couldn't' do something more interesting, I'd be more forgiving. But we know that Quarian faces were decided on in the contest of Talimancers, and that the Asari were conceived, right from the start, as being love interests. They went crazy overboard with Asari design, not realizing that players would actually get into "more alien" things than that for their characters.

I don't disagree with you regarding Tali. It felt a little lazy.

But, I also feel like you're downplaying the differences and rather playing up the few similarities there. Look at the other bipedal aliens. Turians, Krogan, Salarian, Drell, Yahg, Volus, Batarians, etc...all have similarities in form but all rightly unique in the specifics, no?

 

[disastermouse]

Bioware made Asari the equivalent of green alien women from Star Trek: the fantasy of fucking an alien but it still being close to the human idea of beauty. Bioware also dropped the ball for the Quarians in more way the one. The first was using stock photo for Tali.

The most interesting aliens are the ones with unique biology. The Krogan are hardass murder machines to most, but their eye placement on the side of their heads indicates that they were prey animals. That and their secondary (and tertiary and quaternary) organs indicate they were beings who had to survive before they advanced far enough conquer their planet (and each other).

Salarians are also interesting, since their short lifespans make them more proactive in their actions, but also dangerous haste that betrays their intelligence. For instance, not learning their lesson from uplifting the Krogan to fight the Rachni and starting the Krogan wars, the Salarians were planning to do the same to the Yahg to be their muscle, despite the dangers they pose as learned from the Shadow Broker.

Doesn't anyone remember the 'bachelor party' scene in ME2 on the Citadel where a human, turian, and Salarian all insist that the asari look more like their race than any other? One of them even speculates that they have some sort of mental power that makes each species see them as similar. Since we play through Shepard's eyes, they all look similar to humans.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

I don't disagree with you regarding Tali. It felt a little lazy.

But, I also feel like you're downplaying the differences and rather playing up the few similarities there. Look at the other bipedal aliens. Turians, Krogan, Salarian, Drell, Yahg, Volus, Batarians, etc...all have similarities in form but all rightly unique in the specifics, no?

If you follow the chain of posts back, I've been complaining about those two species specifically, and mentioned that Mass Effect has done overall a good job with the aliens. The fact that they're explicitly not doing Trek aliens for the most part is why the Asari stick out like a sore thumb amongst all of the creations.

Doesn't anyone remember the 'bachelor party' scene in ME2 on the Citadel where a human, turian, and Salarian all insist that the asari look more like their race than any other? One of them even speculates that they have some sort of mental power that makes each species see them as similar. Since we play through Shepard's eyes, they all look similar to humans.

Already discussed previously.

 

[disastermouse]

Already discussed previously.

Was there a consensus?

 

[Zolo]

If you follow the chain of posts back, I've been complaining about those two species specifically, and mentioned that Mass Effect has done overall a good job with the aliens. The fact that they're explicitly not doing Trek aliens for the most part is why the Asari stick out like a sore thumb amongst all of the creations.



Already discussed previously.

I remember way back when Mass Effect 1 came out and I bought the limited edition listening to commentary on artwork. The commentary for the Asari art pretty much had the guy talking about it pretty much being the throwback for 'Green Skinned Space Babe' for Mass Effect. He also talked about being relatively new I think and how it was neat it was one of the first concepts he got to work for.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Was there a consensus?

Nobody disagreed with HK and I when we rebuked the idea. Basically, the thrust of it is that we see actual pictographic representations of Asari in the form of holograms, sign posts etc. People looking at Fornax magazine in this world would obviously notice if the physical nature of the Asari is completely different to what they see when they're in the presence of an Asari. Vid screen communications, videos, photos etc are all obviously available and commonplace, so this kind of trick couldn't hold up without people noticing it. They would need to have a psychic signal blanketing the whole galaxy to keep up the gig, which seems ridiculous if that's the only evidence hinting at it. Artists drawing Asari would all come up with different things from different species, which would be noticed eventually. In ME1 the Asari wear human armors, so they obviously do resemble humans to the point that they fit into their skin-tight spacesuits.

 

[Zolo]

I still miss ME1 armor. I always preferred it to the more stylistic/set looks in the later games.

 

[inky]

Nobody disagreed with HK and I when we rebuked the idea. Basically, the thrust of it is that we see actual pictographic representations of Asari in the form of holograms, sign posts etc. People looking at Fornax magazine in this world would obviously notice if the physical nature of the Asari is completely different to what they see when they're in the presence of an Asari. Vid screen communications, videos, photos etc are all obviously available and commonplace, so this kind of trick couldn't hold up without people noticing it. They would need to have a psychic signal blanketing the whole galaxy to keep up the gig, which seems ridiculous if that's the only evidence hinting at it. Artists drawing Asari would all come up with different things from different species, which would be noticed eventually. In ME1 the Asari wear human armors, so they obviously do resemble humans to the point that they fit into their skin-tight spacesuits.

Nobody disagrees because the psychic thing makes no sense imo. The indoctrination theory makes more sense. There's literally no evidence and it all comes from a flimsy line the writers sneaked in the background to poke fun at the idea of Asari being the de-facto race for strippers in ME nightclubs. That's pretty much it. People are over thinking the "sexy blue alien" race just to pretend their design isn't as on the nose as it was from the beginning.

I still miss ME1 armor. I always preferred it to the more stylistic/set looks in the later games.

I love the Mass Effect 1 armors. Even the ones you don't get to use. I was googling for an example of my favorite armor from ME1 (probably from any game) and I found my own post from 2011 about it, LOL. Surprised my pic is still up:

I agree, some of their designs are pretty amazing. I've mentioned this before, but to me this Salarian armor from ME1 is probably one of my favorite designs in a VG, and (at least the helmet) it is terribly underused.

This happened during the Tali mission in the Citadel. The lighting and the synth music that plays just before you fight them just sold the whole thing for me. Such a cool aesthetic.

 

[HK-47]

Sexy blue aliens that are all bisexual, can have psychic sex with any species, live for a millenium and somehow are all biotic. I think we have previously brought up the Krogans which are just as crazy. I dont even know why Krogans need to live for centuries. The threat of the Krogan is already established enough off their hardiness, cultural lust for fighting and their breeding rate. Scary enough just with that.

 

[inky]

Indeed.

Ugh, what am I doing reading that old thread at 12:30 am, LOL. It's giving me flashbacks to that pre-ME3 expectations period, and not all are great Like:

We changed Tali—that was tough because people were very passionate about her. A lot of people want to have her face revealed and obviously people are going to be pissed off either way.

Like "I thought she was going to look beautiful!" or "I thought she was going to be the most hideous thing ever!" So we've had a lot of debate over Tali's face, but that's the one we kind of dread a lot. We're always "well, let's talk about something else for a while!" That's something we're going to have to decide.

Well, you sure fucked it up bro.

Anyway, not all is negative. Some other great ME1 designs:

So slick. You can taste the 80s. Yummy.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

The armor in the later games looks similar but is a bit more modular instead of being single sleek items. A lot of the cerberus enemies and standardized Mechs in ME2 (FENRIS / LOKI / YMIR) look like they come from the same design school taht the ME1 armors do.

The desire to make all the party members look unique instead of using standardized armors are where we lost it though.

 

[Muscle Wizard]

Doesn't anyone remember the 'bachelor party' scene in ME2 on the Citadel where a human, turian, and Salarian all insist that the asari look more like their race than any other? One of them even speculates that they have some sort of mental power that makes each species see them as similar. Since we play through Shepard's eyes, they all look similar to humans.

Ever since then it has been seen as more as a one-off joke.

 

[royox]

Citadel was only as good as it was because it had three games worth of material to work with and make jokes about. The entire DLC was made up of inside jokes, like the N7 Fury complaining to the Alliance Procurement Officer about not getting sent the biotic upgrades she needed, which was a reference to the MP RNG store not giving players the shit they want but instead giving them the shit they don't need, or the conversation with the Vorcha Soldier and the Human Infiltrator complaining about randoms, which was a reference to PUG teams sucking and Vanguards being reckless.

The DLC wouldn't have worked without being able to use references like that, Mass Effect 4 has nothing to call back on so it would suck if they tried to make it a 60 hour Citadel DLC, it would get stale real quick. Ffs, even the Citadel DLC humour starts to get stale after a couple of runs through it.

I had to pause the game at the fucking Toothbrush scene.

Then I had to pause it again after Shepard saw his hamster "NOW THAT'S PERSONAL, NOBODY HURTS MY HAMSTER"


Crying of laughter at both.

 

[Patryn]

The armor in the later games looks similar but is a bit more modular instead of being single sleek items. A lot of the cerberus enemies and standardized Mechs in ME2 (FENRIS / LOKI / YMIR) look like they come from the same design school taht the ME1 armors do.

The desire to make all the party members look unique instead of using standardized armors are where we lost it though.

Maybe I was looking in the wrong places, but I honestly didn't see a ton of people complaining about this stuff online. And yet Bioware fucking FREAKED OUT about this in both Dragon Age and Mass Effect, arguably to the detriment of both series.

Did I miss the hordes of people complaining about this?

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Maybe I was looking in the wrong places, but I honestly didn't see a ton of people complaining about this stuff online. And yet Bioware fucking FREAKED OUT about this in both Dragon Age and Mass Effect, arguably to the detriment of both series.

Did I miss the hordes of people complaining about this?

I never saw anything online, the drive for it was probably internal. I could easily see it coming from either art or marketing, for different but related reasons. The alliance chars never felt all that iconic design wise, and forcing specific outfits let them differentiate. I don't mind that so much for casual outfits, but IMO everyone in combat should have worn armour, whether or not it was player customisable. Chars with no helmets, Miranda in high heels on rocky Tuchanka... just a stupid design decision.

 

[Zolo]

Maybe I was looking in the wrong places, but I honestly didn't see a ton of people complaining about this stuff online. And yet Bioware fucking FREAKED OUT about this in both Dragon Age and Mass Effect, arguably to the detriment of both series.

Did I miss the hordes of people complaining about this?

*Slowly raises hand*

I mean, if I looked at my history, I wouldn't be surprised if I found I started a thread on it and got into discussions about it. Just noting my preference though; nothing crazy.

I think it was more notable on DAII's end where a lot of the complaints were coming from how it was becoming more like Mass Effect. The complaints on that end may have been what convinced them to kind of compromise in Inquisition on a mix of custom armor and iconic armor.

On a personal note, I also have to admit I enjoy customizing the armor and weapons of my companions simply because I like seeing the progression of going from basic armor to awesome armor at the end.

 

[Patryn]

I never saw anything online, the drive for it was probably internal. I could easily see it coming from either art or marketing, for different but related reasons. The alliance chars never felt all that iconic design wise, and forcing specific outfits let them differentiate. I don't mind that so much for casual outfits, but IMO everyone in combat should have worn armour, whether or not it was player customisable. Chars with no helmets, Miranda in high heels on rocky Tuchanka... just a stupid design decision.

The no helmets things is what bugged me so much, and continues to bug me. After working so hard to create something a bit more believable in Mass Effect 1, suddenly we have Jack who's barely wearing anything above the waist and just an oxygen mask is basically the vacuum of space.

I get that Bioware wanted it to be "cool", but all it did was draw me out of the reality of the situation.

At least Garrus got to keep his helmet.

*Slowly raises hand*

I mean, if I looked at my history, I wouldn't be surprised if I found I started a thread on it and got into discussions about it. Just noting my preference though; nothing crazy.

I think it was more notable on DAII's end where a lot of the complaints were coming from how it was becoming more like Mass Effect. The complaints on that end may have been what convinced them to kind of compromise in Inquisition on a mix of custom armor and iconic armor.

On a personal note, I also have to admit I enjoy customizing the armor and weapons of my companions simply because I like seeing the progression of going from basic armor to awesome armor at the end.

Dragon Age 2 was actually Bioware's response to the complaints. It's why they took away the ability to equip armor on your companions.

 

[DOWN]

The new armor concepts look a bit future soldier generic to me. That said, the overall darker and more mysterious look of the location concepts, combined with the return of the mako, seems like the new styles may not be any kind of loss even while missing the Mass Effect 1 sleeker aesthetic.

 

[Ganzlinger]

I kinda like each character having "unique" outfits. But no armor for Jack and others is dumb.

 

[razzmahtazz]

Maybe I was looking in the wrong places, but I honestly didn't see a ton of people complaining about this stuff online. And yet Bioware fucking FREAKED OUT about this in both Dragon Age and Mass Effect, arguably to the detriment of both series.

Did I miss the hordes of people complaining about this?

Most likely a design decision. There's a concept in design about making unique and easily identifiable silhouettes to more easily separate elements making it its own thing, whole and separate from each other. The Simpsons uses this for their characters. Since most of the characters share the same body shape(silhouette), humanoid, they needed break those shapes using the costumes.

 

[The Artisan]

The Tali face thing was one of the most hilariously bad things I've experienced as a gamer. I still can't believe they did that.

the worst part is is that they weren't even trolling - that was their final answer, their revelation of tali's face.

 

[shinobi602]

Unrelated to ME but still hnnng worthy.

 

[theshape31]

All I really want is gamepad support on PC next time around.

 

[Ashtar]

I was trying to do anything but study for my board exams tomorrow and came across these backtrack videos for Mass Effect 1-3 on Gametrailers from the always excellent Daniel Bloodworth

Mass Effect 1

Mass Effect 2

Mass Effect 3

Going back and watching these made me think about all the music of Mass Effect, I know the popular opinion is that the sound track to 3 was crap but to me it really had that feel of the whole universe being at war and that every thing was at stake. ME1 also had a really great soundtrack. ME2 truthfully I don't remember much of this soundtrack even watching the video guess it didn't really stick with me.

Watching these got me in the feels, EA and bioware need to stop messing around and go ahead and release ME trilogy for PS4 and Xbone with all the DLC. While they're at it go ahead and include all the characters as party members for ME3 since they already have all the models and moves from the multiplayer. Also include the multiplayer.

 

[Bisnic]

I was trying to do anything but study for my board exams tomorrow and came across these backtrack videos for Mass Effect 1-3 on Gametrailers from the always excellent Daniel Bloodworth

Mass Effect 1

Mass Effect 2

Mass Effect 3

Going back and watching these made me think about all the music of Mass Effect, I know the popular opinion is that the sound track to 3 was crap but to me it really had that feel of the whole universe being at war and that every thing was at stake. ME1 also had a really great soundtrack. ME2 truthfully I don't remember much of this soundtrack even watching the video guess it didn't really stick with me.

Watching these got me in the feels, EA and bioware need to stop messing around and go ahead and release ME trilogy for PS4 and Xbone with all the DLC. While they're at it go ahead and include all the characters as party members for ME3 since they already have all the models and moves from the multiplayer. Also include the multiplayer.

I don't think you realize how impossible this is, not just storywise, but also all the new voice acting and dialogues that would be required.

 

[Patryn]

All I really want is gamepad support on PC next time around.

Given they finally included it in Dragon Age, I would be shocked if it's not in the next Mass Effect as well.

 

[Ashtar]

I don't think you realize how impossible this is, not just storywise, but also all the new voice acting and dialogues that would be required.

Well I realize they couldn't have dialog but I just wanted to hang out with Wrex again, is that so wrong?

 

[DOWN]

I'm really tired of not having a remaster. I wish they'd definitively say yes or no. I'd rather know it isn't coming for sure and hear about the new game than nothing at all.

 

[SliChillax]

I'm really tired of not having a remaster. I wish they'd definitively say yes or no. I'd rather know it isn't coming for sure and hear about the new game than nothing at all.

Wait for E3.

 

[Josh5890]

I'm really tired of not having a remaster. I wish they'd definitively say yes or no. I'd rather know it isn't coming for sure and hear about the new game than nothing at all.

Welcome to the video game industry.

 

[Patryn]

I'm really tired of not having a remaster. I wish they'd definitively say yes or no. I'd rather know it isn't coming for sure and hear about the new game than nothing at all.

You have to realize that we're in the minority in that we're expecting one. I bet they'd piss off a bunch more people off who hadn't considered the idea by definitively announcing they weren't doing it than they would by just never bringing it up.

 

[HK-47]

Have they put the DLC on Origin yet?

 

[DOWN]

You have to realize that we're in the minority in that we're expecting one. I bet they'd piss off a bunch more people off who hadn't considered the idea by definitively announcing they weren't doing it than they would by just never bringing it up.

I'm not expecting one. You must be thinking of JohnnyFootball. I'm the one who kept saying EA doesn't so remasters, so we don't have much reason to expect it.