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The Mass Effect Community Thread
- Thread starter shinobi602
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Yeah Michael, we were starting to believe the game wasn't real, 3 years after ME3 and still nothing but prototypes videos and artwork!
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
I'm positive it's not real. Franchise is dead.
shinobi602
Member
Greatness awaits.
A really long fucking time.
I definitely think that if they are doing a Remaster it'd be a good idea to announce it along with ME4 news/trailer/whatever. It'll steal the show wherever they do it.
The EC + Leviathan doesn't fix anything. The ending is still the same thing. It's tonally and thematically wrong. To me it's really weird people pretend it fixed it by giving you the same outcome with 3 hours more exposition. Sure, it retcons a couple of scenes, but those were just small plotholes in a bigger thing so it really didn't affect that much. I get that it feels like a thorough explanation that answers so many things, but it only answers problems they created in the last 10 minutes of the game. It's a completely "pulled out of ass" thing. Only now you get some motivation behind it.
In the context of taking into account your decisions, offering you varied outcomes and answering questions (all that pre-release fluff the devs talked about) it's still a poor ending to a 3 game series, visually and mechanically. Nevermind the implications.
And like I said before, Citadel is 100% fanservice and borderline fanfiction. I mean, if you imagine Mass Effect as a TV series then Citadel is that one episode that happens in a kind of alternate reality or something. And in a way that's cool and all. I get why people like that. But in the end it's an outlier, not really part of the whole thing.
shinobi602
Member
I honestly don't think we'll hear or see anything on the new IP at all this year, in any way shape or form, at least officially. The next 18 months are DAI DLC and Mass Effect time.
How long do you think it will be? Is Q1 2016 too optimistic?
I have no insider knowledge, but what about this generation has indicated that optimism is at all rewarded?
Hence my constant Q1 2017 guesses.
anexanhume
Member
Well, if your issues with ending are narrative/writing based, EC doesn't do much at all. If your issues about closure, it does a lot.
I don't think the extended cut solves anything except giving you another option that still glosses over the core problems of the ending.
Everything was left up in the air, hell it wasn't even an ending.
I still need to play through this game again and do the citadel and leviathan dlc. I bought those a year ago on sale and started my second ME3 playthrough but man that game has more problems than just the ending.
One day I'll force myself to push through it all, get the citadel and be prepared for what comes next. I still love this series.
I don't expect to see this until 2017 and honestly I don't want it to come out earlier if it means it'll be rushed. ME3 clearly felt rushed so I hope they learn their lesson, don't talk about it much at all (and use Star Wars to hold over) and do an information blowout when they feel good and ready.
Come on, man. No one is pretending anything. Anyone following the debacle upon release would know that what was an issue for some wasn't for others, and vice versa. The game didn't fix your problems, fine whatever. No need to be so dismissive.
In any case, changing the ending from a galactic dark age to "relays are just disabled and can be fixed" is a pretty major tonal shift in itself.
Personally the three big takeaways from the EC are:
1) flow of the ending is fixed. Scenes make logical sense in their sequential order which wasn't really the case when people are suddenly showing up on the Normandy after having been at the beam and other things. Things which needed elaboration or follow-up scenes received it (Joker leaving) and minor plot holes fixed (why is Joker looking back into the ship as if he sees the beam chasing them, lol).
2) The ending is much clearer. This isn't talked about enough but a significant portion of the Catalyst dialogue was reworked or elaborated on. Paired with Leviathan it's very easy to follow the evolution of the problem that morphed into the harvest cycles, whereas it was impossible to do before. Therefore, the ME series received proper context for its main conflict whereas before the Catalyst convo existed almost entirely in the metaphysical realm.
3. Retcons or additions that changed tone. Things like the relays no longer being destroyed, seeing the Normandy repaired and flying off the jungle planet, epilogue monologues.
The EC + Leviathan changed my opinion of the ending from "shit" to "mediocre" which is pretty impressive for a free DLC whipped together in a few months.
When people say the EC+Leviathan "fixed" the ending they aren't saying it's perfect. They're just saying they can play through the ending now without getting super depressed and disgusted. It's a mediocre ending in the same way ME1 and ME2's endings were mediocre. The only real sticking point thematically is still the geth dying for Destroy.
Which is why the Control master race is here to ensure everyone plays nice.
shinobi602
Member
Oh of course, it didn't "fix" the ending to me, namely the essence of the starchild itself, just meant direct plotholes in the last 10 minutes itself, which felt like the worst offender to me. I mean a lot of individuals plotholes were retconned properly at least.
DOWN
Banned
This may be criminal of someone like me who's favorite game is ME1 and loves the trilogy, but I haven't played any ME3 DLC (I didn't even install From Ashes day one because I have a policy of trying to play the sort of 'theatrical cut' instead of 'extended cut' first). You are all making me really want to forget my backlog and the chance of a remaster for a couple of months and go in depth with a trilogy replay since I own all the DLC.
shinobi602
Member
From people I've talked to close to the thing, it's still a 2016 release but haven't yet nailed down deciding between Spring or Fall. EA usually has multiple high-profile releases every year, and with Battlefield 5 targeting Q4 2016, for now until I hear more, I'm assuming earlier than Fall is the target. They did however release NFS Rivals and BF4 at the same time, so it could still be the Fall.
Of course, delays are always possible with any game, but this thing's been in development since 2012. It won't skip next year.
I'd say wait for E3 and see if a Remaster is announced (not to bring up the whole Remaster thing again). If not, go for it. I seriously love ME3's DLC. I mean, I'm just imagining how much Javik + Leviathan + the EC + Omega (if you love ME3's combat like me) + Citadel does for a playthrough and getting excited just thinking about it.
I'm not being dismissive. I acknowledge what people see in the additional material and I explained myself. Saying it negates 90% of the problems is actually more dismissive I thought.
In any case, I'll just revert to letting EatChildren speak for me.
And you are wrong. There is only one master race, the "shoot the fucking kid" master race.
FlammableD
Banned
Take your fucking time guys, make it good.
Ganzlinger
Member
You should go for it. ME3 without From Ashes and Leviathan feels incomplete.
In a dismissive way, yes. I'm not sure you'd be too happy if someone suggested that you were only pretending to hold a viewpoint you hold, for reasons. Anyway, I don't want to harp on it since it's ultimately just a word choice quibble.
I have little doubt this thread won't agree with me on this, but if Fall is in the picture I would honestly be a little afraid if they released in Spring 2016.
Mass Effect 3 undeniably suffered from being pulled out of the oven too early (even with the delays!) and I really don't want Mass Effect 4 to suffer the same fate.
Thanks Shinobi. I read that in the voice of Newman when he is being smug and overdramatic. Your avatar is effective.
prag16
Banned
I still think Q1, or at least Q2, is entirely possible. By that time it will have been over four years in development, and over 1.5 years in "full production" including everyone added from the DA:I team.
That's entirely doable even considering the use of new technology, etc. If I had to guess right now, put me down for May 2016. (With Bioware new IP reveal following at E3 2016, along with ME4 DLC.) I had been holding out hope for Q1 a la ME2/3, but hard to really expect that at this point, especially in light of Shinobi's last post.
Yeah, they would have less than one year to market and hype the game, I don't think I've ever seen a major AAA western game doing that.
We usually get AT LEAST two E3s to hype any AAA game after it's official reveal. Q4 2016 feels more like it. Maybe Q3.
shinobi602
Member
Yea, Q1 doesn't seem to be in the cards from what I know but to that point, dragging out the marketing is actually starting to, almost, backfire in terms of hype and excitement. Look at things like Watch Dogs for example. The entire gaming public had their eyes hooked on that thing when it was revealed at E3 2012. It was the game of the show. Come late 2013, then getting closer to release in 2014, hype definitely deflated from fever pitch.
It's in their best interests now to show a game when it's good and ready and release within 12 months. 18 months max. When you think about it, in this modern day and age, word spreads so fast and games, movies etc become known so fast, you don't need a long time to market a game. That goes double for an IP that is very well known to boot. They could announce and release the next Mass Effect in a month and I guarantee you they would sell the same amount of copies.
I suppose you're right. But if they decide to release it at Q4 2016 for the best quality product and not reveal it until E3 2016 for maximum hype, i don't think i'll be able to handle waiting another year before the first trailer and gameplay videos...
I'm in the camp that believes that Bethesda will attempt to prove this idea this year with Fallout 4. I'm crossing my fingers for an E3 reveal, Q4 release.
shinobi602
Member
Oh yea, there's not a chance in hell they'll wait that long to show it.I suppose you're right. But if they decide to release it at Q4 2016 for the best quality product and not reveal it until E3 2016 for maximum hype, i don't think i'll be able to handle waiting another year before the first trailer and gameplay videos...
Fully agreed.
They might, but it depends on how many things they announce come E3. They've said before they like the 1 year from announcement to release period.
Fallout 4 is definitely a November release, but 2015 would be bold as fuck.
prag16
Banned
If E3 comes and goes without anything robust shown (I mean more than a short trailer with no gameplay) I will be disappoint.
Assuming it won't be playable on the show floor or anything, but hopefully significant gameplay will be shown, along with some solid general info about setting/story/etc.
I doubt it. EA already has a Bioware MMO, and while it's not a failure (despite what some may think), it also didn't BLOW UP to become the new WoW.
Also, the MMO market is clearly in decline. After ESO, I doubt any of the major companies are interested in risking that much money.
Unless it's designed to be B2P like Guild Wars?
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Most of the ending is still a sticking point thematically, in my opinion. As said, EC + Leviathan fluff it so it's more comprehensive and rich. Ergo the best it can be with what is given. But when the subject matter is inherently shitty this still an overwhelming sense of dissatisfaction and frustration. It's a glittered turd.
And I still argue that despite BioWare's insistence that there's no "best ending", synthesis is intended to be.
prag16
Banned
That's one of the things that annoys me the most. They clearly intended the piece of shit pretentious abomination of synthesis as the "best" ending.
DOWN
Banned
Battlefront is going to be huge, along with sports.
The Artisan
Member
being that it is only unlocked after the highest ems, i'd say you're right. i know they said that there's no canon ending or whatever but it seemed to me like they wanted this ending to be the most preferred by players.
Sure, and they did do this in BF4's release year as well.
I don't think forcing any race to merge with other (or all) races could ever be good.
Huge difference between multiculturalism and "now we're all part robot/asari/fish/whatever."
DOWN
Banned
I dont think that's what BioWare was thinking.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Right, and this is why the ending as a whole, specifically the Catalyst reasoning, is an unconvincing, nonsensical crock of absolutism shit. It's not good and it's dumb and it's poo poo.
But in BioWare's stupid universe it's an absolute, indisputable problem that is "solved" with borderline utopian perfection, never to reoccur, through synthesis. An ending that can only be unlocked by meeting the closest-to-perfect game objective requirements.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
I don't even understand, intellectually, how they thought it made sense that it solved the conflict. The conflict between organics and synthetics wasn't about being different or not liking each other, organics fought organics and snythetics fought synthetics. It would be like making everyone on Earth having blue eyes to try and solve racial tensions.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Joker's technological singularity synthesis hat solves all galactic problems.
Ascenion
Member
Incorrect. That ending would be destroy, with Shepard's survival which originally required 5,000+ EMS. I still advocate destroy simply because it's the only permanent solution imo and the most common ending among all EMS levels. It is either the only one or the "best" one based of EMS. Every other ending, Reapers aren't stopped, simply gone for the moment. Besides to the best of my knowledge who is to say the Geth can't be revived somehow, or EDI since she's what I've noticed most people cry over.
I reckon we get a teaser trailer at most at E3, but hope I'm wrong.
The thread also makes me so, so glad that I played Mass Effect 3 after a personal media blackout and on release day so that I could experience the ending for myself. There's no doubt in my mind that my experience would have been massively soured by knowledge of the anger surrounding it that would develop. I tend to get swayed by group opinion like that, I think it's only natural.
Anyway, I immediately 'read' the ending (while playing it) as the Starchild being one last desperate attempt to indoctrinate Shepard and push him away from the one true salvation - destruction of the reapers and synthetics. It wasn't great, but it was an acceptable conclusion to a story I always knew they'd struggle to wrap up properly. That so few people saw it this way (taking the events of the ending completely literally instead) really surprised me later - I'm usually just one of the crowd on these things. Then again, I also saw many of the issues and themes that the game raised as being almost red herrings designed to stop you from taking hard choices that would lead to the best outcome - again, a form of indoctrination.
Jokes aside, the games painted synthetics in a particularly favourable light, but I never bought into that. I felt like I was being manipulated, like Shepard is at the end. Sacrificing synthetics was an easy call. Synthesis was so stupid that it could only have existed in the fever dream of a defeated, indoctrinated mind. I cannot and do not accept that that ending is supposed to be physically real. It exists only in Shepard's mind, like so much of the ending. I suppose there are many who disagree.
Anyway, it makes me sad that so many people didn't enjoy the ending to such a great trilogy. Then again, plenty of people obviously enjoyed ME2 way more than I did so maybe we're even.
I just hope that with this next trilogy they don't overpromise. As someone who has worked in game development (if only for a little while) and just as an experienced gamer I felt like I had a really good grasp of what they'd be capable of in the two sequels. A lot of people I knew let their expectations run wild regarding just how much your actions and choices would echo through the trilogy and this was a large factor in their disappointment by the end. This time they need to underpromise and overdeliver. It will help that there's already a trilogy out there so that people know what to expect this time. I'm really, really looking forward to it.
Good god I hope so, but I don't share your optimism. I reckon we'll get more than a teaser, though, and am hoping for a spring 2016 release.
The thread also makes me so, so glad that I played Mass Effect 3 after a personal media blackout and on release day so that I could experience the ending for myself. There's no doubt in my mind that my experience would have been massively soured by knowledge of the anger surrounding it that would develop. I tend to get swayed by group opinion like that, I think it's only natural.
Anyway, I immediately 'read' the ending (while playing it) as the Starchild being one last desperate attempt to indoctrinate Shepard and push him away from the one true salvation - destruction of the reapers and synthetics. It wasn't great, but it was an acceptable conclusion to a story I always knew they'd struggle to wrap up properly. That so few people saw it this way (taking the events of the ending completely literally instead) really surprised me later - I'm usually just one of the crowd on these things. Then again, I also saw many of the issues and themes that the game raised as being almost red herrings designed to stop you from taking hard choices that would lead to the best outcome - again, a form of indoctrination.
What I'm saying is that I fucking shot Mordin and it will always be the right call, okay?
Anyway, it makes me sad that so many people didn't enjoy the ending to such a great trilogy. Then again, plenty of people obviously enjoyed ME2 way more than I did so maybe we're even.
I just hope that with this next trilogy they don't overpromise. As someone who has worked in game development (if only for a little while) and just as an experienced gamer I felt like I had a really good grasp of what they'd be capable of in the two sequels. A lot of people I knew let their expectations run wild regarding just how much your actions and choices would echo through the trilogy and this was a large factor in their disappointment by the end. This time they need to underpromise and overdeliver. It will help that there's already a trilogy out there so that people know what to expect this time. I'm really, really looking forward to it.
Good god I hope so, but I don't share your optimism. I reckon we'll get more than a teaser, though, and am hoping for a spring 2016 release.
I picked that because out of all that bullshit it was the only one that actually let you do what you came to do, but I wouldn't advocate for it on that basis alone. I'm sure some people were upset that EDI and her robotic camel toe was no more, but the implications behind destruction when I just spent the past day with the Geth proving it wrong was actually why it doesn't work. I don't think it was meant to say AI couldn't exist again, more like you just doomed everyone to that thing precisely without another cycle to "prevent" it.
IMO taking away your character's ability to reject the kids logic in all endings (the necessity of the Reapers) assumes that they were expecting you to accept the inevitability behind them and their cosmic plan, and as such I agree synthesis makes the most sense as their "best" ending, when you sacrifice yourself to bring forth the ultimate utopia where everyone is the same and Joker and EDI get to give birth to cute biomachine babies. Ugh.
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