Its a sickness.
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The Mass Effect Community Thread
- Thread starter shinobi602
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Its a sickness.
Last three? EatChildren isn't a mod!
If you save the honour of Tali's father by doing the coloured response thing during the trial, you can still save the heretics so long as you do everything correctly in ME3 prior to Priority: Rannoch
For the record, here's the secret math going into the background of Priority: Rannoch determining whether peace between the two races is possible or not:
BASE REQUIREMENTS:
- Shepard must have 4 bars of reputation
- Legion's loyalty mission in ME2 must have been finished
- Tali's loyalty mission in ME2 must have been finished (in such a way as she was not exiled)*
- Must have finished the mission Rannoch: Geth Fighter Squadron
*It may be possible with an exiled Tali.
THE MATH (must have at least 5 points):
- (+2 points) Destroying the heretic geth in Legion: A House Divided.
- (+2 points) Preventing Tali's exile in Tali: Treason without presenting evidence of Admiral Rael'Zorah's experiments on the geth.
- (+1 point) Brokering a peace in the Tali/Legion loyalty argument. If the player did not have sufficient Paragon/Renegade points at that time, loyalty of either Tali or Legion would have been lost. In that case -- even if loyalty had been regained later -- this "point" will not count towards the five needed to pass the Reputation check (and broker the ceasefire).
- (+1 point) Completing Rannoch: Admiral Koris.
- (+1 point) Saving Admiral Koris during Rannoch: Admiral Koris.
So, for the record, there are only 2 points available in Mass Effect 3, and you can only gain the other 5 points by importing.
In terms of this discussion, 2 of those 5 points are only achieved doing a renegade action, so if you choose to do the Paragon thing, that removes any margin for error and requires you to fulfill every other requirement to get the option.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
No. It got you renegade points if you destroyed the data. I can say that with 100% certainty.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Yes, you can save the heretics and still save Tali. As I stated earlier the only difference between save and destroy was how the points were divided between quarian and geth.
Save heretics:
Stronger geth
Weaker quarians
Destroy heretics:
Stronger quarians
Weaker geth
If you made peace, neither mattered.
If you chose to kill one or the other then yea there was a difference.
I can say this with 100% certainty. It changes nothing whether you choose to destroy them or let them live.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Not really. None of those decisions affect much of anything.
Not choosing the Persuasion option on Rannoch doesn't affect anything? What?
Except that I point out that the decision has a MARKED effect on whether peace is possible. Nobody is talking about Readiness rating here except you, nobody cares about that. We're simply talking about whether the player is given the option to negotiate a peace between the two species. And it's an undeniable fact that it is easier to achieve peace if you destroy the heretic Geth, which is a renegade option. Yes, it's possible to have peace without choosing that option but it's much more difficult (as I point out).
What are you talking about? Those decisions are crucial to enabling both the Geth and Quarians to survive. Otherwise you are forced to pick one or the other.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
I mean they don't change the ending!
We're not talking about the ending, we're only talking about the impact of the choices in the game. And it's the one instance in which it's arguable that the player is "rewarded" (peace is obviously the optimal solution) for choosing the renegade option.
I can see where you're coming from if all you care about is the ending. I'm looking at a more holistic view.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Getting peace is still very easy even without destroying the heretics.
I got it without reading a guide,
I say "easy" and "hard" because of the amount of effort required for each. For instance, if you destroy the heretics and fulfill all the ME2 conditions you actually are no longer required to do any of the Admiral Kolis stuff simply because you import meeting the minimum requirements needed.
That is quantifiably easier than if you rewrite them, as it adds additional actions that you must take in Mass Effect 3.
For the record, I also got peace without a guide. However, a simple Google search will reveal that there are plenty of people who did not do so.
I'm pretty sure this is wrong, I've brokered peace with exiled Tali
Yeah, my buddy's a big ME fan and Tali ended up a smear at the bottom of a cliff for him.
While I can't say I'm 100 percent right, literally everything I have read online says Tali cannot be exiled. However, I will take your word for it and added a clarification.
I think you can broker peace with Tali exiled, but you're going to need to have gotten every other possible point in order to do so. I've have to double check though.
Also, Wulfram, are you on BSN? I remember seeing your username on there, same with Shinobi.
My first playthrough of ME3 was without an import, since Chris Priestly advised people to have their first playthrough of ME3 as the default one, and I'm very glad I did. It was so much better than my boring ass, 100% perfect run, there was actually conflict and hard choices to make which I couldn't get out of, and I loved every moment of it.
Certain missions, like the Grissom Academy one, were so much better without their respective ME2 squadmate around. With Jack dead, the tone of the entire mission changed and you got to see the massive toll that the Reaper War was having on the kids. It was saddening to watch, but Bioware hit it out of the park with the writing, especially the end, with Renegade Shepard giving the most inspirational mini speech in the series.
There is no doubt in my mind when I say non import >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> import.
Also, Wulfram, are you on BSN? I remember seeing your username on there, same with Shinobi.
My first playthrough of ME3 was without an import, since Chris Priestly advised people to have their first playthrough of ME3 as the default one, and I'm very glad I did. It was so much better than my boring ass, 100% perfect run, there was actually conflict and hard choices to make which I couldn't get out of, and I loved every moment of it.
Certain missions, like the Grissom Academy one, were so much better without their respective ME2 squadmate around. With Jack dead, the tone of the entire mission changed and you got to see the massive toll that the Reaper War was having on the kids. It was saddening to watch, but Bioware hit it out of the park with the writing, especially the end, with Renegade Shepard giving the most inspirational mini speech in the series.
There is no doubt in my mind when I say non import >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> import.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Yeah, I never tried, but I have a VERY hard time believing that is the case.
Your post both intrigues and baffles me.
I am extremely grateful to have been following the same characters for 5 years, and no other videogame experience matches the feeling I had in that rooftop with garrus when I let him win.
But, I do wonder what is like to play 2 and 3 with no emotional baggage...
He was until recently tho and it is becoming quite clear just how important a passion for Mass Effect really is.
shinobi602
Member
As it should be.
DOWN
Banned
I think a lot of reasonable players consider many things disappointing about the ending, but I don't think expecting any and every large decision to get reward or reaction in a bloated ending scene is what people wanted. There were a lot of major things that happen during ME3 before the ending, and if you consider ME3 as a game to be the conclusion of the trilogy, there is a lot of good experiences and choices addressed throughout the game that did not have to be part of the ending scene itself.
I brokered a peace between the Geth and Quarians without a guide. Didn't realize that was difficult for players. In fact, the only time I used a guide was during the Suicide mission in ME2. Looking back, I don't think I really needed to do that either because the "correct" choices were pretty damn obvious.
Also, I had no idea the Rachni still appeared in ME3 if you killed the queen in ME1. I assumed all those parts were completely removed if you didn't, and that I did make a wrong choice by letting the queen go. How stupid. Now it makes sense why the characters weren't constantly giving me shit for letting her live. I thought it was all my fault.
Finally, I feel like choices do matter in the ME series. Sure as far as the ending goes perhaps not, but having Wrex come back in 2 and 3, and Mordin's/Thane's sacrifice in 3...I don't know, to me they were impactful. To me, it felt like my choices mattered. I only recently played the trilogy for the first time, while I had played all the Dragon Age games numerous times. I always felt like Bioware wrote themselves into a corner by allowing your Warden to die in DA1, and that's why they were so afraid of bringing him/her back in subsequent titles. But ME proved that wrong. Not only could you let Wrex live, but also give him an important role in the following games. And if you don't let him live, then the game still progresses regardless. Compared to DA, the choices in ME are very impactful. DA really could learn a thing or two in that regard.
Also, I had no idea the Rachni still appeared in ME3 if you killed the queen in ME1. I assumed all those parts were completely removed if you didn't, and that I did make a wrong choice by letting the queen go. How stupid. Now it makes sense why the characters weren't constantly giving me shit for letting her live. I thought it was all my fault.
Finally, I feel like choices do matter in the ME series. Sure as far as the ending goes perhaps not, but having Wrex come back in 2 and 3, and Mordin's/Thane's sacrifice in 3...I don't know, to me they were impactful. To me, it felt like my choices mattered. I only recently played the trilogy for the first time, while I had played all the Dragon Age games numerous times. I always felt like Bioware wrote themselves into a corner by allowing your Warden to die in DA1, and that's why they were so afraid of bringing him/her back in subsequent titles. But ME proved that wrong. Not only could you let Wrex live, but also give him an important role in the following games. And if you don't let him live, then the game still progresses regardless. Compared to DA, the choices in ME are very impactful. DA really could learn a thing or two in that regard.
Yeah, I'm on BSN
Just checked my savegame, and Tali exiled definitely didn't block Geth/Quarian peace for me.
Just checked my savegame, and Tali exiled definitely didn't block Geth/Quarian peace for me.
Is the Tali/Geth/Peace thing THAT difficult? Pretty sure I managed to preserve Tali's father's honor, not get her exiled, have her survive the trilogy, and brokered peace between the Geth and Quarians. Don't remember if I "saved the heretics," but I think so. Couldn't tel you how I did all that.
I never imagined naval combat being real time or direct control (even though that might come natural on a console). I imagine it being something more strategic and possibly even turn-based, or real time with pause like FTL. You'd probably just give commands to different parts of the ship.
More importantly though, I'd just want to see a lot of ship customization, almost to the same degree is character customization.
I never imagined naval combat being real time or direct control (even though that might come natural on a console). I imagine it being something more strategic and possibly even turn-based, or real time with pause like FTL. You'd probably just give commands to different parts of the ship.
More importantly though, I'd just want to see a lot of ship customization, almost to the same degree is character customization.
All the stuff you did (minus the saving the Heretics) are WHY you were able to make peace. They all give you points towards being able to do it.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
The thing that pissed people off about the ending is that it ended up not mattering if you brokered peace. Are you trying to tell me that didn't bother people?
DOWN
Banned
No, you are a clear example of it bothering people in the context of the ending sequence. But a lot of people don't look at each event and decision as something that was supposed to make its way into the ending sequence, and instead consider that a lot of events are fairly placed in the games as events of their own and with their own conclusions to consider outside of the ending cutscenes.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Perhaps I don't understand what you are trying to say.
I have a hard time believing that people didn't expect the resolution of the geth-quarian conflict to come into play somewhere in the ending. People reasonably expected to see the overall effect of their choices in the final ending cutscene, which did happen in the extended cut. I certainly didn't expect something insignificant like Conrad Verner to show up in the final ending cutscene, but brokering peace between the geth and quarians was kind of a big deal. So I am going to disagree very strongly that people didn't expect to see some of the longterm effects of the geth-quarian conflict.
Florida_Man_5000
Member
If there was a simple loading screen ship activity I would be happy with just that. Kinda like Jade Empire. I'd rather want them to focus on everything else that made the game great.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Guys please stop calling it naval combat, it makesme sick. Also fuck bioware for calling it a navy you lazy assholes.
DOWN
Banned
Poodlestrike
Banned
The Artisan
Member
I think I agree with you if I'm understanding you correctly. Are you saying that all these situations introduced in the ME-verse (genophage, planet mutinied, etc) are something that not all or at least a sizable amount of people expected a conclusion to with the ending of the trilogy? Or are you saying the opposite?
I'll only accept this in Spelljammers.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
you know if there's any space combat it'll be an arcade shooter through and through
Not sure if they'll go down that path though. I think there will be a lot of vehicle stuff, and Frostbite certainly handles vehicles very well. Maybe they'll put in some upper atmosphere stuff.
Not sure if they'll go down that path though. I think there will be a lot of vehicle stuff, and Frostbite certainly handles vehicles very well. Maybe they'll put in some upper atmosphere stuff.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
"Fleet" is just a group of vehicles. You have fleets of cars, for example.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Pretty much the only major show/franchise to avert it that I've ever heaerd of is Stargate, and even they called the big ones "ships."
TC McQueen
Member
I'm pretty sure they called large groups of ships fleets in Stargate too.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Yeah, I meant couching things in terms of naval combat, which they obviously wouldn't do because they're Air Force.
DOWN
Banned
I was stating star fleet as an alternative, not as a naval term. HaLO however does call theirs a navy.
Night Hunter
Banned
I don't get it. What else are they supposed to call it? I mean even if it was some kind of air force thing it's pretty hard to not go with the spaceship moniker
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
In the real world we already have a name for machines that travel through outer-space, "spacecraft". It's pretty trivial to not call your fleets of spacecraft a navy, since navy literally means the branch of a military responsible for its sea-borne operations. It's not even like "spaceship" where it's a term occasionally used in the real word for that alternate purpose. Starforce, Spaceforce, Starfleet, Spacefleet, Terran Exoplanetary Command, Stargate Command, Imperial Fleet anything but Navy. Use your imagination. Be creative.
Use of other naval terminology like "boat", "torpedo", "marine" or what have you are extremely difficult to justify. A torpedo is like a guided missile, except with water propulsion. Missiles work in outer space. So why would a missile be renamed a torpedo? Well because space is an ocean obviously. Spess Mahreens are so firmly ingrained in pop culture it makes me sick. Congrats, young novelist #726, you have called your space infantry the "Space Watersoldiers". Alternative terms exist. The progenitor of the modern space marine is the Terran Mobile Infantry from Starship Troopers. You could go with the classic "Soldier". Or "Espatier". Or come up with a whole new name for them. But we know they're not going to, because boy is thinking hard when you could just fall back on lazy tropes. I guess it's the same reason elves are in so much western fantasy.
Anyway the point of the story is, if you call it a Space Navy, then the terrorists have won.
Night Hunter
Banned
In the real world we already have a name for machines that travel through outer-space, "spacecraft". It's pretty trivial to not call your fleets of spacecraft a navy, since navy literally means the branch of a military responsible for its sea-borne operations. It's not even like "spaceship" where it's a term occasionally used in the real word for that alternate purpose. Starforce, Spaceforce, Starfleet, Spacefleet, Terran Exoplanetary Command, Stargate Command, Imperial Fleet anything but Navy. Use your imagination. Be creative.
Use of other naval terminology like "boat", "torpedo", "marine" or what have you are extremely difficult to justify. A torpedo is like a guided missile, except with water propulsion. Missiles work in outer space. So why would a missile be renamed a torpedo? Well because space is an ocean obviously. Spess Mahreens are so firmly ingrained in pop culture it makes me sick. Congrats, young novelist #726, you have called your space infantry the "Space Watersoldiers". Alternative terms exist. The progenitor of the modern space marine is the Terran Mobile Infantry from Starship Troopers. You could go with the classic "Soldier". Or "Espatier". Or come up with a whole new name for them. But we know they're not going to, because boy is thinking hard when you could just fall back on lazy tropes. I guess it's the same reason elves are in so much western fantasy.
Anyway the point of the story is, if you call it a Space Navy, then the terrorists have won.
Oh, I thought we were talking solely about the spaceship moniker. Reading fail on my part. Yes, calling it a navy is stupid for obvious reasons, which you listed above.
EDIT: That pic is seriously cringe inducing.
EDIT 2: Spacecraft doesn't really flow right if you ask me.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
It's a sister term to watercraft and aircraft, the latter of which is extremely common and probably 'flows correctly' in your mind. It's just a matter of acclimatisation. If you delve imto technical discussions on space travel you'll see the term everywhere and it becomes pretty normal. At this point 'spaceship' sounds extremely informal to me, like a child talking about 'air planes' or something.
Night Hunter
Banned
Which is the point. I mean I guess you are right if you say that it is a matter of how accustomed you are with the term, but that leads to a Scylla & Charybdis type of situation. Because on the one hand, if you write a dialogue and use the term spaceship it sounds informal and familiar to the viewer or reader, who are for the most part not accustomed to the term spacecraft in casual conversation (although a character in just about any science fiction story probably would be). But on the other hand, like you say, it's just not the correct term. So it's a matter of sacrificing accuracy for natural-sounding dialogue.
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