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[MasterOfPastures]

You're going to have to explain what you're talking about here.



They "Can" use it, obviously, since they do. It's lazy because it's repeating the same broadly illogical decisions made by SF authors stretching back decades rather than striking out and doing something interesting. Why is something outside of water a navy? Why would the word "marine" ever be used to describe exclusively outer-space based soldiers? You could come up with some strained excuse for this, like the US Navy literally started building spacecraft and the US Marine Corps literally started deploying troops to space and somehow got a monopoly on all of this at the expense of all other branches of the armed forces. They don't have something like this, they're just called a Navy and Alliance Marines because uhh dude everyone calls them space marines, it's like a fact.

Also, you've obviously heard torpedos, since you've heard of Star Trek, Star Wars, and Mass Effect. Photon Torpedos, Proton Torpedos, Disruptor Torpedos / Javelin Torpedo System. Any good reason to call them torpedos? Because space is an ocean baby! Embrace the frigates, space admirals, space navies, space marines, skippers, and people shouting "aye aye". Yarr me hearties, thar be star whales to hunt!

At this point I'm shouting at the tide to go back. This "tradition" will be continued mindlessly for an eternity by people who don't care, or worse, like the idea of using all these terms. These people are possibly worse than Hitler.

In time, I think we will see the emergence of it's unique nomenclature and ranking. I mean, the Air Force started out as the Army Air Forces. Once enough work and vehicles are made, a new fifth branch will be made. Starforce, Sunfleet, Starfleet, Vacuum Troops, etc. Calling it navy will be confusing, unless the whole branch is gobbled up and rebranded to.... NotSpace Navy.

 

[TheUnsunghero26]

I was always confused why they went with the renegade choices for people who didn't import. For someone who is starting with ME2, You would think it would be less confusing to just have the original council, than to have be told that they have been replaced because of something that you did. And having Wrex dead by default? What monster thought of that? I've never played a non-imported ME2 save, but a Shepard without Wrex is not a Shepard I want to play.

And speaking of defaults, has anyone ever played ME3 in "action mode" (or whatever it's called)? Can you even do that if you imported? I don't think I've ever heard of anyone who played that way.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

I always had trouble with Vanguards on Insanity, though I've seen players use it well, but they're spending half the game with the power wheel open.

With the right set-up you pretty much become invincible.

And having Wrex dead by default? What monster thought of that?

It makes sense, since getting through ME1 with Wrex alive, while not difficult, is something you have to go out of your way for(either with enough Paragon/Renegade points or by doing his Companion Quest).

 

[DOWN]

With the right set-up you pretty much become invincible.



It makes sense, since getting through ME1 with Wrex alive, while not difficult, is something you have to go out of your way for(either with enough Paragon/Renegade points or by doing his Companion Quest).

But who the heck advocates letting him go? It's a game. It isn't that hard to keep him. I think it's weird he is dead in the made-up default.

 

[The Artisan]

I was always confused why they went with the renegade choices for people who didn't import. For someone who is starting with ME2, You would think it would be less confusing to just have the original council, than to have be told that they have been replaced because of something that you did. And having Wrex dead by default? What monster thought of that? I've never played a non-imported ME2 save, but a Shepard without Wrex is not a Shepard I want to play.

And speaking of defaults, has anyone ever played ME3 in "action mode" (or whatever it's called)? Can you even do that if you imported? I don't think I've ever heard of anyone who played that way.

I think wrex dead was a default thing because you could only save him if you had a heavy amount of charm/intimidate points. I don't remember about the council though.

Never said it was canon. I even used air quotes for "default".

Spoiler

Although I'm guessing you didn't catch my Dr. Evil impression through your monitor

Pantheon is the one saying canon shepard is a paragon soldier.

Spoiler

ah, well. no i did not.

I guess you can - never mind, as someone else said I don't think there ever is a "canon" shepard class/personality route to go by. default, yes but not canon.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

But ME was a tribute to 70s and 80s sci fi films. It was supposed to have the kind of leaps and tropes in many ways, and it great and there's nothing wrong with that plan. Sexy blue aliens are okay, but do not repeat those naval terms? Okay.

You only have to go back a few pages to see my whining about how much I hate the Asari actually. Naval terminology has no specific association with the 70's or 80's. It's a generic SF trope present in every era. Nobody would ever say "oh well this doesn't feel very 70s since they aren't decked out in navy uniforms" for example. It was common in the 50's and 60's, it's common in the 90's and today.

Mass Effect draws inspiration from a lot of places, but it's not galaxy quest where the whole point is a giant wink wink nudge nudge. They still designed the universe and made choices in terms of what to include or not include. What I've complained about here is window dressing, a missed opportunity to do something authentic and not to mindlessly follow the pack. I'm quite aware of how futile the complaining is, I assure you.

 

[Patryn]

I didn't say this definitively so maybe you misread and don't have the context. No need to repeat myself:



And I think you seem to have misunderstood the statement about my ME1 Shepard as a confirmation of whatever the BioWare idealist Shepard may be. And perhaps remember that there was no ME1 default world state until ME2, so the ME1 era's implied defaults came only from the marketing, writing, and BioWare presentations.

And the distress call ad surely doesn't imply anything more than a regret for him having too little time and resources in difficult choices. All they do is pick a different route they need to go on as Shepard looks disappointedly with no context to suggest it's anything but a forced choice due to time and resources, not lack of empathy characteristic of a renegade.

There is not a default world state, but as I pointed out the default background leans toward renegade in the sense that picking it will give you bonuses for going renegade. That's in the actual game systems.

Regardless, the issue I still take with is that I don't necessarily agree with your assertion that paragon is Bioware's idealized Shepard. All the evidence I see points towards renegade being "canon" or "idealized" or whatever, if there is such a thing. If you have quotes suggesting otherwise, I am happy to read them.

Otherwise, we should probably just agree to disagree.

 

[The Artisan]

There is not a default world state, but as I pointed out the default background leans toward renegade in the sense that picking it will give you bonuses for going renegade. That's in the actual game systems.

Regardless, the issue I still take with is that I don't necessarily agree with your assertion that paragon is Bioware's idealized Shepard. All the evidence I see points towards renegade being "canon" or "idealized" or whatever, if there is such a thing. If you have quotes suggesting otherwise, I am happy to read them.

I agree with this. You explained in a good way how, if anything, the "preferred" way was to have shepard do renegade things, but it still doesn't necessarily equate to what shepard is supposed to be.

Spoiler

he is supposed to be yours, however you want it.

 

[Dr Zhivago]

You only have to go back a few pages to see my whining about how much I hate the Asari actually. Naval terminology has no specific association with the 70's or 80's. It's a generic SF trope present in every era. Nobody would ever say "oh well this doesn't feel very 70s since they aren't decked out in navy uniforms" for example. It was common in the 50's and 60's, it's common in the 90's and today.

Mass Effect draws inspiration from a lot of places, but it's not galaxy quest where the whole point is a giant wink wink nudge nudge. They still designed the universe and made choices in terms of what to include or not include. What I've complained about here is window dressing, a missed opportunity to do something authentic and not to mindlessly follow the pack. I'm quite aware of how futile the complaining is, I assure you.

Have you got any examples of good non-naval terminology? Most invented terminology tends to be pretty cringe inducing.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Have you got any examples of good non-naval terminology? Most invented terminology tends to be pretty cringe inducing.

I can give you ones straight out of popular fiction, even ones that subscribe to one or more of these tropes.

"Space infantry": Mobile Infantry (Starship Troopers)
"Space military": Starfleet (Star Trek)
Ranks / hierarchy: Air force derived structure with the CO of a spacecraft being a "Commander" (Stargate)

 

[Night Hunter]

https://twitter.com/The1Wynn/status/578983037339373568

BioWare Montreal did the ME3 Multiplayer, right? If so they should probably include all those interesting new powers into the new game and make the skilltree a lot more open.

 

[Dr Zhivago]

I can give you ones straight out of popular fiction, even ones that subscribe to one or more of these tropes.

"Space infantry": Mobile Infantry (Starship Troopers)
"Space military": Starfleet (Star Trek)
Ranks / hierarchy: Air force derived structure with the CO of a spacecraft being a "Commander" (Stargate)

Is there any SF that avoids naval terms altogether rather than just odd words? (And I'm not sure swapping air force terms in really counts . )

 

[Ralemont]

I always had trouble with Vanguards on Insanity, though I've seen players use it well, but they're spending half the game with the power wheel open. Soldier in ME1, I agree, but I did better with Infiltrator and Adept in 2. It's a testament to the viability of the classes that any can thrive, I guess.

All you need to do is max Biotic Charge cooldown. Gives you a barrier every time you use it and in ME3 with less weapons = less cooldown you can use it every 2 seconds or so.

 

[The Artisan]

so, does anyone think this game will be cross gen? My instinct is telling me it won't be but I'm curious if anyone does.

Is there any SF that avoids naval terms altogether rather than just odd words? (And I'm not sure swapping air force terms in really counts . )

just wanted to say, I love that avy. That was one of my favorite costumes in LBP1.

 

[Dr Zhivago]

just wanted to say, I love that avy. That was one of my favorite costumes in LBP1.

The eyes are Stadler's from The Muppets

 

[The Artisan]

The eyes are Stadler's from The Muppets

oh, are they? I thought they were just the "cartoon eyes". that's what I used on my custom tails costume anyway =]

 

[Patryn]

so, does anyone think this game will be cross gen? My instinct is telling me it won't be but I'm curious if anyone does.

Not a fucking chance in hell.

Bioware has already admitted that being crossgen crippled Inquisition and scaled back the vision.

 

[Guri]

so, does anyone think this game will be cross gen? My instinct is telling me it won't be but I'm curious if anyone does.

It won't be. Confirmed by Aaryn on this thread.

 

[i-Lo]

so, does anyone think this game will be cross gen? My instinct is telling me it won't be but I'm curious if anyone does.

I hope it is. Not much difference in power between last and current gen aside from RAM and shader tech. At the least, Bioware can be smart about it like Bungie and realize that a tens of millions of people still own last gen hardware. If Destiny can sucker millions of people with a bit more geometry and higher texture details then so can the next ME; just lather it in glitter and call it 'next/current-gen'.

I can't afford to drop $400+ on a new console just for one game; the days of KoTOR are long behind them. I doubt going "only" current gen will affect their game's core design regarding the dual morality system. The top right reply will most likely still be paragon and bottom right, renegade.

Spoiler

I jest... mostly

 

[Patryn]

I hope it is. Not much difference in power between last and current gen aside from RAM and shader tech. At the least, Bioware can be smart about it like Bungie and realize that a tens of millions of people still own last gen hardware. If Destiny can sucker millions of people with a bit more geometry and higher texture details then so can the next ME; just lather it in glitter and call it 'next/current-gen'.

I can't afford to drop $400+ on a new console just for one game; the days of KoTOR is long behind them. I doubt going "only" current gen will affect their game's core design regarding the dual morality system. The top right reply will most likely still be paragon and bottom right, renegade.

Spoiler

I jest... mostly

You should read up on how they had to scale back their vision and eliminate game systems from Inquisition to have it run on past gen. Them going current gen only means it'll be a better game in the end.

I mean, they couldn't even do both holstering and combat rolls on past gen in Mass Effect 3 due to RAM limitations.

 

[Night Hunter]

Where is this from?

 

[DOWN]

Where is this from?

The "Distress Call" ad for Mass Effect 1.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Is there any SF that avoids naval terms altogether rather than just odd words? (And I'm not sure swapping air force terms in really counts . )

That's hard to answer, "spaceship" is very common even in things that avoid other naval terminology. I don't know if there's any outer-space SF that avoids every single naval term. I mean there has to be at least a couple, but I wouldn't even know where to begin to try and find a list.

You should read up on how they had to scale back their vision and eliminate game systems from Inquisition to have it run on past gen. Them going current gen only means it'll be a better game in the end.

I mean, they couldn't even do both holstering and combat rolls on past gen in Mass Effect 3 due to RAM limitations.

If there's one thing Inquisition needed more of, it was scaling back. If ME next is even a fraction as bloated as that game I'll be mighty upset.

Where is this from?

I think it's a TV add for ME1, but it might have been from one of the E3 vids.

 

[i-Lo]

You should read up on how they had to scale back their vision and eliminate game systems from Inquisition to have it run on past gen. Them going current gen only means it'll be a better game in the end.

I mean, they couldn't even do both holstering and combat rolls on past gen in Mass Effect 3 due to RAM limitations.

I do wonder what how large the scope grew or what new processing intensive tasks they invented going from ME2 to 3 that not only robbed the 3rd game of holstering animation but also implemented laughably bad running animation....

Oh well, I guess holstering and better running animations are old features born anew on current gen hardware. I wonder what will happen when we inevitably reach ME6.

Where is this from?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKgSiPqi39w

 

[Patryn]

If there's one thing Inquisition needed more of, it was scaling back. If ME next is even a fraction as bloated as that game I'll be mighty upset.

Except what they scaled back sounded like interesting stuff. Keep sieges, army management, complex choices, etc.

Not the MMO fetch quest stuff.

 

[Guri]

I hope it is. Not much difference in power between last and current gen aside from RAM and shader tech. At the least, Bioware can be smart about it like Bungie and realize that a tens of millions of people still own last gen hardware. If Destiny can sucker millions of people with a bit more geometry and higher texture details then so can the next ME; just lather it in glitter and call it 'next/current-gen'.

I can't afford to drop $400+ on a new console just for one game; the days of KoTOR are long behind them. I doubt going "only" current gen will affect their game's core design regarding the dual morality system. The top right reply will most likely still be paragon and bottom right, renegade.

Spoiler

I jest... mostly

It can affect the level design more too. Have you wondered why Mass Effect 2 and 3 were more linear and with more closed environments and loading scenes? That "scan" before going to the bridge in Mass Effect 3 was a loading scene. They couldn't even fit everything from the same floor anymore. Because console tech limited it. Someone already mentioned the Inquisition cuts too. I'm sorry you will need to buy a new console or upgrade your PC, but that's how it works in this industry.

 

[i-Lo]

It can affect the level design more too. Have you wondered why Mass Effect 2 and 3 were more linear and with more closed environments and loading scenes? That "scan" before going to the bridge in Mass Effect 3 was a loading scene. They couldn't even fit everything from the same floor anymore. Because console tech limited it. Someone already mentioned the Inquisition cuts too. I'm sorry you will need to buy a new console or upgrade your PC, but that's how it works in this industry.

I concur with your assessment of the situation. All I hope for is to be able to play in the grey without having dialogues and other options being locked to upper echelons of either distinct side. That aspect does not feel tied to technology (I may be in error) and improving technology may only help to distinguish the disparity in scope and the sheen more than before.

 

[The Artisan]

Not a fucking chance in hell.

Bioware has already admitted that being crossgen crippled Inquisition and scaled back the vision.

well then why the fuck did they bother making da3 cross gen in the first place?

or, why not outsource the last gen version to a different dev?

It won't be. Confirmed by Aaryn on this thread.

awesome.

I hope it is. Not much difference in power between last and current gen aside from RAM and shader tech. At the least, Bioware can be smart about it like Bungie and realize that a tens of millions of people still own last gen hardware. If Destiny can sucker millions of people with a bit more geometry and higher texture details then so can the next ME; just lather it in glitter and call it 'next/current-gen'.

I can't afford to drop $400+ on a new console just for one game; the days of KoTOR are long behind them. I doubt going "only" current gen will affect their game's core design regarding the dual morality system. The top right reply will most likely still be paragon and bottom right, renegade.

Spoiler

I jest... mostly

well, according to a post made by Aaryn, your hope is in vain.

Spoiler

ah, well you said you were jesting so I wonder how many of the things you said you were serious about.

the power jump from 7th to 8th gen may not have been as much of a leap as they usually are and should be between gens, but I still think they are considerable more powerful - much more powerful than the predecessors.

You should read up on how they had to scale back their vision and eliminate game systems from Inquisition to have it run on past gen. Them going current gen only means it'll be a better game in the end.

I mean, they couldn't even do both holstering and combat rolls on past gen in Mass Effect 3 due to RAM limitations.

when I heard that (it was in this thread or one of the ME threads here) that pissed me the fuck off as well. why cut things from a version of the game that can actually handle it? it just makes you think how much more there would've been to the game if they didn't make those sacrifices.

it's not like 2 generations back devs made sure there was platform parity between xbox and ps2 versions of the game. the xbox versions were visibly much better looking even though the ps2 versions sold better most of the time.

this shouldn't have been any different.

If there's one thing Inquisition needed more of, it was scaling back. If ME next is even a fraction as bloated as that game I'll be mighty upset.

why do you say that?

 

[DOWN]

If there's one thing Inquisition needed more of, it was scaling back. If ME next is even a fraction as bloated as that game I'll be mighty upset.

The Dragon Age team is aware of the fetch quest response and I'm sure the Mass Effect team will take notes. The explorable size is brilliant though, and I welcome that and more being adapted to a space setting for Mass Effect with current gen power.

I hope it is. Not much difference in power between last and current gen aside from RAM and shader tech. At the least, Bioware can be smart about it like Bungie and realize that a tens of millions of people still own last gen hardware. If Destiny can sucker millions of people with a bit more geometry and higher texture details then so can the next ME; just lather it in glitter and call it 'next/current-gen'.

I can't afford to drop $400+ on a new console just for one game; the days of KoTOR are long behind them. I doubt going "only" current gen will affect their game's core design regarding the dual morality system. The top right reply will most likely still be paragon and bottom right, renegade.

Spoiler

I jest... mostly

No reason to give us less planets and places in lower detail just for a market that's proven to have all but shrunk into irrelevance. Last gen sales are very very low (as EA learned from Hardline), but the tax of making a game that will fit on a minimal number of Xbox 360 DVDs and a very notably weaker system is big. As mentioned above, Bioware specifically have said they had to cut features and scale because of last gen for Inquisition.

That said, Battlefront looks to be the start of the current gen only era for EA, so Mass Effect is safe and I won't have to scream.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Except what they scaled back sounded like interesting stuff. Keep sieges, army management, complex choices, etc.

Not the MMO fetch quest stuff.

I don't mind fetch quests that lead to meaningful rewards. I hate IT when they are just padding.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

why do you say that?

It has huge amounts of content, but most of it is low quality and/or repeated. For example, in every area there is a "gather X herbs/rocks" quest, a "close Y rifts" quest and a "collect Z shards" quest. The game is long for the sake of being long, you could probably cut 1/3 of the game's content and runtime and have a tighter, more enjoyable experience for it... that would still take 40+ hours to complete.

 

[The Artisan]

It has huge amounts of content, but most of it is low quality and/or repeated. For example, in every area there is a "gather X herbs/rocks" quest, a "close Y rifts" quest and a "collect Z shards" quest. The game is long for the sake of being long, you could probably cut 1/3 of the game's content and runtime and have a tighter, more enjoyable experience for it... that would still take 40+ hours to complete.

alright, that is fair. however, in the case of Me3, we don't know what kind of stuff they had to cut, do we? all I remember from that comic con interview was the guy saying "everything we had to cut from the game was because of the Ps3's ram" or something like that, but did they ever say what types of stuff it was?

 

[Patryn]

well then why the fuck did they bother making da3 cross gen in the first place?

or, why not outsource the last gen version to a different dev?

Because Inquisition was supposed to hit pretty much at the launch of the current gen (it later got delayed a year). They wanted higher sales than the current gen install base would have allowed at the time.

At this point, however, the current gen install bases are large enough that they no longer have to do that to get the sales numbers they need.

 

[Daemul]

Even if they cut anything from ME3, the game was long enough man. It takes me 50 hours to do everything in that game, that is more than enough for an RPG. Any longer and I would never finish it lol.

 

[shinobi602]

well then why the fuck did they bother making da3 cross gen in the first place?

or, why not outsource the last gen version to a different dev?

That wasn't up to Bioware. They wanted to leave last gen behind.

Edit: Also, getting Inquisition running on last gen hardware was an insanely hard task. Trying to get some third party outside dev to do it would've been suicide.

 

[Patryn]

So I'm currently replaying ME3, and I'm about 20 hours in. I just flipped back to ME2 to check something and I realized that ME2 actually looks a lot better than ME3. Like, remarkably.

Is it just me?

 

[Sou Da]

So I'm currently replaying ME3, and I'm about 20 hours in. I just flipped back to ME2 to check something and I realized that ME2 actually looks a lot better than ME3. Like, remarkably.

Is it just me?

Yes.

 

[i-Lo]

So I'm currently replaying ME3, and I'm about 20 hours in. I just flipped back to ME2 to check something and I realized that ME2 actually looks a lot better than ME3. Like, remarkably.

Is it just me?

No. I wouldn't say "a lot" however.

That wasn't up to Bioware. They wanted to leave last gen behind.

And now it is?

 

[shinobi602]

And now it is?

It's really always up to the publisher that owns the studio. That said, Inquisition was Bioware's last cross gen game so the point's moot anyway lol.

 

[RyanDG]

So I'm currently replaying ME3, and I'm about 20 hours in. I just flipped back to ME2 to check something and I realized that ME2 actually looks a lot better than ME3. Like, remarkably.

Is it just me?

Are you playing on PS3 by chance? Because I will say that overall I found the aesthetic on ME2 on the PS3 to be superior to ME3's. However, that's the only system that I can really say that applies to - both PC and Xbox 360 don't seem to have the same issues...

 

[StrongBlackVine]

This was probably my favorite new IP last gen( or tied with Uncharted) pretty much re-introduced me to playing RPGs. Can't wait see what Bioware is working on.

 

[Poodlestrike]

So I'm currently replaying ME3, and I'm about 20 hours in. I just flipped back to ME2 to check something and I realized that ME2 actually looks a lot better than ME3. Like, remarkably.

Is it just me?

Eeeyup.

 

[Patryn]

Are you playing on PS3 by chance? Because I will say that overall I found the aesthetic on ME2 on the PS3 to be superior to ME3's. However, that's the only system that I can really say that applies to - both PC and Xbox 360 don't seem to have the same issues...

No, 360.

 

[DOWN]

No, 360.

I think 3 seems more like it hit technical walls and The Citadel isn't realized so well, but overall I think it looks a little stronger than ME2.

 

[Ralemont]

So I'm currently replaying ME3, and I'm about 20 hours in. I just flipped back to ME2 to check something and I realized that ME2 actually looks a lot better than ME3. Like, remarkably.

Is it just me?

ME3 has always looked much better than ME2 to me on PS3.

 

[prag16]

So I'm currently replaying ME3, and I'm about 20 hours in. I just flipped back to ME2 to check something and I realized that ME2 actually looks a lot better than ME3. Like, remarkably.

Is it just me?

I played them back to back on the same PC hardware and I'd say ME3 clearly looked better imo, though not drastically.

 

[The Artisan]

Because Inquisition was supposed to hit pretty much at the launch of the current gen (it later got delayed a year). They wanted higher sales than the current gen install base would have allowed at the time.

At this point, however, the current gen install bases are large enough that they no longer have to do that to get the sales numbers they need.

I see, so it was always intending to be a launch title for Ps4/xbone?

Even if they cut anything from ME3, the game was long enough man. It takes me 50 hours to do everything in that game, that is more than enough for an RPG. Any longer and I would never finish it lol.

it sounded like they cut certain gameplay capabilities from Me3. i have no idea what it could be but if it was than then it is a bummer no matter what. who knows how much more the 360/PC versions could've had.

That wasn't up to Bioware. They wanted to leave last gen behind.

Edit: Also, getting Inquisition running on last gen hardware was an insanely hard task. Trying to get some third party outside dev to do it would've been suicide.

oh? but Patryn was saying that it was supposed to be a launch title for new gen, and for that it would make sense to have cross gen versions if they wanted higher sales. i'm a bit confused.

This was probably my favorite new IP last gen( or tied with Uncharted) pretty much re-introduced me to playing RPGs. Can't wait see what Bioware is working on.

same here. I often say Uc2 and Me2 go back and forth as my 2 favorite games of last gen. hard for me to choose between the two but lately it's been Uc2. it's also part of the reason I made the versus thread.

 

[renegade_dewitt]

If and once that Mass Effect trailer hits during E3, I will replaying that trailer 1000x of times. Its been too long since I have scratched that ME 1 itch: exploration, new characters, new gameplay, etc. Can't wait - almost just 2 months left!

 

[RyanDG]

If and once that Mass Effect trailer hits during E3, I will replaying that trailer 1000x of times. Its been too long since I have scratched that ME 1 itch: exploration, new characters, new gameplay, etc. Can't wait - almost just 2 months left!

I'm feeling the same way. I am utterly surprised that there weren't any Mass Effect copy cats last gen. I'm hoping that there are more sci fi space opera RPGs in our future...

 

[Patryn]

oh? but Patryn was saying that it was supposed to be a launch title for new gen, and for that it would make sense to have cross gen versions if they wanted higher sales. i'm a bit confused

We're not contradicting one another. I never said Bioware was behind the decision. Yes, Bioware cares about sales, but EA cares a lot more. Hence, they make that call.

Also, it was originally intended to be a launch window title, but that changed months before the consoles released. So you can't say it was "always intended", if for no other reason than it ended up not showing up until a year after launch.