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[inky]

you know if there's any space combat it'll be an arcade shooter through and through

From the people who brought you planet scanning, hacking, turret sequences and ping to scan/outrun the reapers that's a pretty scary thought. Unless they take it seriously it would probably suck.

The ship should be a tactical asset through and through: artillery runs, supply drops, space missions, even in-ship missions, etc. In an ideal world in-ship command would complement the game perfectly, but they probably think that action through menus is boring compared to straight up action.

Not sure if they'll go down that path though. I think there will be a lot of vehicle stuff, and Frostbite certainly handles vehicles very well. Maybe they'll put in some upper atmosphere stuff.

Well, that is a given considering they've teased a vehicle already.

For the space stuff they probably won't, but space sims are having a big renaissance, and if Bioware is guilty of something it is taking concepts from other popular games in order to lure in that "expanded audience", so I wouldn't put it past them to incorporate more of those elements.

 

[Mindlog]

It's a sister term to watercraft and aircraft, the latter of which is extremely common and probably 'flows correctly' in your mind. It's just a matter of acclimatisation. If you delve imto technical discussions on space travel you'll see the term everywhere and it becomes pretty normal. At this point 'spaceship' sounds extremely informal to me, like a child talking about 'air planes' or something.

Tell that to, Burt Rutan.

 

[behroozbadboy]

https://twitter.com/The1Wynn/status/578983037339373568

 

[BumRush]

https://twitter.com/The1Wynn/status/578983037339373568

Hype!

 

[Paganmoon]

I truly hope they change the dialog camera. It's way to static, in DA:I they made an effort of having some movement, but for the most part it was still the static camera, while the characters droned on. I hope they get a cinematographer of sorts for Mass Effect: Next, to get more "living" dialog camera.

Add some kind of movement to the background, have the camera move to a wide shot, do something, just stop it with the damned static camera of characters faces...

 

[DOWN]

It's a sister term to watercraft and aircraft, the latter of which is extremely common and probably 'flows correctly' in your mind. It's just a matter of acclimatisation. If you delve imto technical discussions on space travel you'll see the term everywhere and it becomes pretty normal. At this point 'spaceship' sounds extremely informal to me, like a child talking about 'air planes' or something.

Why can't they use some naval terms if they feel like it? I've never heard torpedo in space fiction, but I have no problem calling the ships and stations a navy. It sounds like largely preference of yours and calling it "lazy" seems arbitrary. It seems to flow just fine for audiences and creators in the genre on the occasions it has been used.

I truly hope they change the dialog camera. It's way to static, in DA:I they made an effort of having some movement, but for the most part it was still the static camera, while the characters droned on. I hope they get a cinematographer of sorts for Mass Effect: Next, to get more "living" dialog camera.

Add some kind of movement to the background, have the camera move to a wide shot, do something, just stop it with the damned static camera of characters faces...

Mass Effect 3 specifically aimed to do this, having the camera pan and pass around much more than before. I'm sure they'll keep trying to improve that since they were clearly interested in having it be less static.

 

[Daemul]

https://twitter.com/The1Wynn/status/578983037339373568

 

[Bisnic]

https://twitter.com/The1Wynn/status/578983037339373568

Can't wait to see how cool the biotic explosion will look like. The nailed the sound effect in ME3, now they just need that.

 

[DOWN]

Can't wait to see how cool the biotic explosion will look like. The nailed the sound effect in ME3, now they just need that.

Mmhmm. That big fat bass. The distortion was delicious.

 

[Paganmoon]

Mass Effect 3 specifically aimed to do this, having the camera pan and pass around much more than before. I'm sure they'll keep trying to improve that since they were clearly interested in having it be less static.

So did DA:I at times, still failed imo. Specially after seeing so many "cinematic" games in the last few years, the dialog camera feels extremely dated. Might not be fair to compare to the camera in games without dialog choice, but The Order, TLoU, and even inFamous: Second Son had great camera movement when the characters were in (no-choice) dialog.

That's one place Bioware really needs to step up imo, and I don't think ME3 or DA:I did enough in that department, hoping for a pretty big revamp for the next Mass Effect.

 

[inky]

Why can't they use some naval terms if they feel like it? I've never heard torpedo in space fiction, but I have no problem calling the ships and stations a navy.

In Star Trek they have all kind of torpedoes. Pretty standard weapon.

I don't feel as strongly as he does, but I agree all the "space marine" nomenclature is a bit lazy.

 

[prag16]

So did DA:I at times, still failed imo. Specially after seeing so many "cinematic" games in the last few years, the dialog camera feels extremely dated. Might not be fair to compare to the camera in games without dialog choice, but The Order, TLoU, and even inFamous: Second Son had great camera movement when the characters were in (no-choice) dialog.

That's one place Bioware really needs to step up imo, and I don't think ME3 or DA:I did enough in that department, hoping for a pretty big revamp for the next Mass Effect.

You somewhat defeated your own argument to an extent, by acknowledging all your examples are situations which don't involve waiting for the player to make a dialog choice. That definitely limits what they can feasibly do. ME3 I thought was fine in terms of the no-choice dialogue.

 

[Patryn]

https://twitter.com/The1Wynn/status/578983037339373568

I really hope they don't forget Engineers and tech powers. Yes, it's the least played class but it's the best.

 

[Bisnic]

I really hope they don't forget Engineers and tech powers. Yes, it's the least played class but it's the best.

Why would they forget about something that's been there since the beginning?

 

[The Artisan]

https://twitter.com/The1Wynn/status/578983037339373568

word. in the words of the ign guy who reviewed Me2, "the vanguard class seriously kicks ass."

 

[Springy]

Why can't they use some naval terms if they feel like it? I've never heard torpedo in space fiction, but I have no problem calling the ships and stations a navy. It sounds like largely preference of yours and calling it "lazy" seems arbitrary. It seems to flow just fine for audiences and creators in the genre on the occasions it has been used.

Worth pointing out that, in addition to science fiction, the international community also sees a confluence of seas and space, as evidenced by the structuring of treaties such as the Outer Space Treaty in the same fashion as maritime treaties.

(Interesting to note that any discussion on cyber-space has taken the same form.)

Using naval terminology makes sense to me from a literary standpoint, too, though obviously it isn't obligatory.

I really hope they don't forget Engineers and tech powers. Yes, it's the least played class but it's the best.

Engineer was also the best single-player class in 3 if I remember. Made Insanity easy relative to ME1 and 2.

 

[The Artisan]

Worth pointing out that, in addition to science fiction, the international community also sees a confluence of seas and space, as evidenced by the structuring of treaties such as the Outer Space Treaty in the same fashion as maritime treaties.

(Interesting to note that any discussion on cyber-space has taken the same form.)

Using naval terminology makes sense to me from a literary standpoint, too, though obviously it isn't obligatory.


Engineer was also the best single-player class in 3 if I remember. Made Insanity easy relative to ME1 and 2.

so engineer was the easiest way to beat Me3 on insanity?

I think soldier was that for Me2.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

so engineer was the easiest way to beat Me3 on insanity?

I think soldier was that for Me2.

I always heard that Manguard was the ultimate class for ME2 and 3?

And that Soldier was invincible in ME1.

 

[The Artisan]

I always heard that Manguard was the ultimate class for ME2 and 3?

And that Soldier was invincible in ME1.

vanguard was a blast to play through as in Me2, but if you want to platinum the game I heard on the bioware forums that soldier made that the easiest, and I think I would agree. someone else is saying that about engineer for Me3.

and idk about Me1, I got to play through that game only once

 

[Patryn]

Why would they forget about something that's been there since the beginning?

Because if they want to fundamentally rethink classes, this is the time.

Honestly, I suspect Engineer as a class will be gone, replaced by something else, in an attempt to create something that will gain more players.

 

[prag16]

Because if they want to fundamentally rethink classes, this is the time.

Honestly, I suspect Engineer as a class will be gone, replaced by something else, in an attempt to create something that will gain more players.

They better keep away from my infiltrator. Tech powers with the time dilation sniping was beast.

 

[Patryn]

They better keep away from my infiltrator. Tech powers with the time dilation sniping was beast.

I could honestly see major changes to all the classes. I just think that Engineer, Adept and Soldier to have the most work. Engineer and Adept because too few play them, and Soldier because too many play it.

 

[SliChillax]

vanguard was a blast to play through as in Me2, but if you want to platinum the game I heard on the bioware forums that soldier made that the easiest, and I think I would agree. someone else is saying that about engineer for Me3.

and idk about Me1, I got to play through that game only once

In ME1 I found the biotics to be useless and uninteresting so I always maxed out Shepard as a Solider. ME2 and ME3 always Vanguard, such a fun way to play.

 

[Paganmoon]

You somewhat defeated your own argument to an extent, by acknowledging all your examples are situations which don't involve waiting for the player to make a dialog choice. That definitely limits what they can feasibly do. ME3 I thought was fine in terms of the no-choice dialogue.

Not quite. Firstly, the issue is mostly during the actual dialog and not the wait, 90% of the time in DA:I the camera is focused and static on the person speaking. It could be done so much better, with wide shots, or dynamic movement of the camera, so you could get a better feel for emotions conveyed through posture and movement, just as in "cinematic" games, or even movies for that matter. Show your own character when someone else speaks at times, so you can see your characters movement and emotions during a conversation (could even be based on your choices), show your companions, other NPC's, not even part of the conversation, reacting to what is being said.

Secondly, it could even be done during the dialog choices, have the dialog up, but still have the camera in movement, switch between characters, have one pacing, or anything.

There's a lot that can be done to move away from the static and cold feel of the dialog as it is now. It's definitely something I hope they start using with the newer iterations of their games, that aren't quite as constrained by last-gen consoles.

 

[The Artisan]

In ME1 I found the biotics to be useless and uninteresting so I always maxed out Shepard as a Solider. ME2 and ME3 always Vanguard, such a fun way to play.

yeah. I picked vanguard when I played Me2 thinking it was gonna be similar to what was in Me2. boy was I wrong.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Worth pointing out that, in addition to science fiction, the international community also sees a confluence of seas and space, as evidenced by the structuring of treaties such as the Outer Space Treaty in the same fashion as maritime treaties.

You're going to have to explain what you're talking about here.

Why can't they use some naval terms if they feel like it? I've never heard torpedo in space fiction, but I have no problem calling the ships and stations a navy. It sounds like largely preference of yours and calling it "lazy" seems arbitrary. It seems to flow just fine for audiences and creators in the genre on the occasions it has been used.

They "Can" use it, obviously, since they do. It's lazy because it's repeating the same broadly illogical decisions made by SF authors stretching back decades rather than striking out and doing something interesting. Why is something outside of water a navy? Why would the word "marine" ever be used to describe exclusively outer-space based soldiers? You could come up with some strained excuse for this, like the US Navy literally started building spacecraft and the US Marine Corps literally started deploying troops to space and somehow got a monopoly on all of this at the expense of all other branches of the armed forces. They don't have something like this, they're just called a Navy and Alliance Marines because uhh dude everyone calls them space marines, it's like a fact.

Also, you've obviously heard torpedos, since you've heard of Star Trek, Star Wars, and Mass Effect. Photon Torpedos, Proton Torpedos, Disruptor Torpedos / Javelin Torpedo System. Any good reason to call them torpedos? Because space is an ocean baby! Embrace the frigates, space admirals, space navies, space marines, skippers, and people shouting "aye aye". Yarr me hearties, thar be star whales to hunt!

At this point I'm shouting at the tide to go back. This "tradition" will be continued mindlessly for an eternity by people who don't care, or worse, like the idea of using all these terms. These people are possibly worse than Hitler.

 

[Ganzlinger]

In my first gameplay I chose soldier, in the second one I chose vanguard...andi it was disappointing in ME1 but was a lot better in ME2 and it gets better in ME3. In the end, vanguard is now my favorite class.

 

[Patryn]

In ME1 I found the biotics to be useless and uninteresting so I always maxed out Shepard as a Solider. ME2 and ME3 always Vanguard, such a fun way to play.

On the other hand, I found soldiers boring in ME1 and loved powers. Non-global cooldowns rule.

 

[SliChillax]

On the other hand, I found soldiers boring in ME1 and loved powers. Non-global cooldowns rule.

Reason why I didn't like other classes was because they felt weak, biotic powers had no sense of power like they did in ME2 and ME3. I never tried levelling up all the powers though so that might be the reason.

 

[Metroidvania]

the non-global cooldown was awesome in ME1, but most of the level-up point' for biotics/tech were just increased Newton-force, or a bigger radius, which was pretty confusing/vague on how it would specifically let you lift a basic geth vs an armature.

On the other side of the equation, leveling weapons helped with stability and accuracy even when not getting the new marksman/overkill/assassination/carnage.

On higher difficulties, having more warp to lower enemy defenses was already good, but with a good set of heavy Predator/Colossus Armor and Master Immunity, you were pretty close to unkillable.

Making the powers flashier (and with shorter cooldowns) was an aspect that ME2 got right, even though it fucked things with making some powers not work until the shield/armor was gone, in addition to the global cooldown.

 

[inky]

Singularity was pretty powerful in Mass Effect 1. That lift and throw were pretty fun to use imo. Weapons were a bit janky, although I did love my infiltrator.

What Mass Effect 2 did right was allowing you to curve them around corners.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

In ME1, Tech powers had the benefit of essentially being hitscan attacks, meaning that they effect an enemy as long as you can properly target them, regardless of whether or not they're behind cover. Also, debuffs are nice.

It made Geth Hopper fights(as well as Saren Phase 2) really trivial, since their main advantage(their annoying movement) doesn't deter Tech powers.

On the other hand, at least some biotic powers had a travel time, making it possible for them to miss.

Edit: I only ever play Infiltrator, so I have no idea what the other Tech Powers do.

 

[DOWN]

My first couple ME 1 playthroughs I did Vanguard and it was nice, but once I heard how they were making two squad powers mappable to the d pad in ME2, I went soldier since canon Shepard was soldier in ME1 and never looked back. Did soldier for the rest of the series and enjoyed having biotic powers in the form of the brilliant squad command mapping. Nothing like a good lift and warp kind of explosion.

 

[royox]

canon Shepard was soldier in ME1

But there isn't a "Canon shepard"

 

[Daemul]

Engineers and tech powers won't be forgotten about, they were far too popular in MP for that to happen.

But there isn't a "Canon shepard"

"Canon Shepard" was probably the wrong term for the poster to use, but there is certainly a template Shepard that Bioware has in mind when writing the plot. There is a reason why the writing in ME3 drastically improves and the tone remains more consistent when you play through as default Shepard.

 

[DragoonKain]

I go back every now and again and listen to Noveria on my Mass Effect soundtrack. Such a great town. Nothing in ME2 or 3 compared to it. I did like the improvements to combat, but I felt the linear towns in 2 and 3 left me craving so much more.

Drool @ an open world Mass Effect game.

 

[inky]

"Default" Shepard also kills Wrex and shit, so he automatically sucks.

 

[RyanDG]

Engineers and tech powers won't be forgotten about, they were far too popular in MP for that to happen.



"Canon Shepard" was probably the wrong term for the poster to use, but there is certainly a template Shepard that Bioware has in mind when writing the plot. There is a reason why the writing in ME3 drastically improves and the tone remains more consistent when you play through as default Shepard.

What do you mean by this?

 

[BouncyFrag]

"Default" Shepard also kills Wrex and shit, so he automatically sucks.

That ain't right, just like playing ME2 without this scene ain't right!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRq95S_Nv80

 

[AlStrong]

At this point I'm shouting at the tide to go back. This "tradition" will be continued mindlessly for an eternity by people who don't care, or worse, like the idea of using all these terms. These people are possibly worse than Hitler.

Sure didn't take too long for Godwin's Law to kick in.

 

[DOWN]

But there isn't a "Canon shepard"

This is a soldier:

Consistency and other small cues only suggest that's what they rolled with in the marketing and some game counterparts for the trilogy.

Normally, I'd call him default (and we're referring to aesthetics), but I feel like it doesn't make a difference. and I don't think anyone believes bioware's weak default world states are their intended best outcomes, so rather, maybe I'll call it canon paragon, regardless of the flaws there are in trying to nail down what marketing and BioWare idealist Shepard is. At the very least in ME1, he's a soldier paragon who bring Ashley and Garrus with him a lot. I like my Shepard to match all my artwork and to have a high quality scanned face.

 

[Patryn]

This is a soldier:

Consistency and other small cues only suggest that's what they rolled with in the marketing and some game counterparts for the trilogy.

Normally, I'd call him default (and we're referring to aesthetics), but I feel like it doesn't make a difference. and I don't think anyone believes bioware's weak default world states are their intended best outcomes, so rather, maybe I'll call it canon paragon, regardless of the flaws there are in trying to nail down what marketing and BioWare idealist Shepard is. At the very least in ME1, he's a soldier paragon who bring Ashley and Garrus with him a lot. I like my Shepard to match all my artwork and to have a high quality scanned face.

Default Shepards are renegades, though.

For instance, default Shep killed the Rachni Queen and the Council.

That's been consistent. If you don't import and don't use the comics, Shepard is named John and is an Earthborn Sole Survivor renegade Soldier.

 

[Springy]

You're going to have to explain what you're talking about here.

Sorry. Laws of the Sea have always used language to describe the universal ownership of international waters and the seabed, and included paragraphs laying out what this means in terms of resource exploitation and militarization of these spaces; aerospace doesn't have similar conventions in place and neither does land (with the exception of Antarctica, I think). The Outer Space Treaty is basic, but it's written with the same principles in mind; basically, the norms of maritime law have extended to human space exploration.

Not that it excuses talk of sailing the stars, but you can forgive people for conflating the two. And the more I type, the less relevant it seems to your point, which was maybe what your response meant.

I always heard that Manguard was the ultimate class for ME2 and 3?

And that Soldier was invincible in ME1.

I always had trouble with Vanguards on Insanity, though I've seen players use it well, but they're spending half the game with the power wheel open. Soldier in ME1, I agree, but I did better with Infiltrator and Adept in 2. It's a testament to the viability of the classes that any can thrive, I guess.

 

[DOWN]

You're going to have to explain what you're talking about here.



They "Can" use it, obviously, since they do. It's lazy because it's repeating the same broadly illogical decisions made by SF authors stretching back decades rather than striking out and doing something interesting. Why is something outside of water a navy? Why would the word "marine" ever be used to describe exclusively outer-space based soldiers? You could come up with some strained excuse for this, like the US Navy literally started building spacecraft and the US Marine Corps literally started deploying troops to space and somehow got a monopoly on all of this at the expense of all other branches of the armed forces. They don't have something like this, they're just called a Navy and Alliance Marines because uhh dude everyone calls them space marines, it's like a fact.

Also, you've obviously heard torpedos, since you've heard of Star Trek, Star Wars, and Mass Effect. Photon Torpedos, Proton Torpedos, Disruptor Torpedos / Javelin Torpedo System. Any good reason to call them torpedos? Because space is an ocean baby! Embrace the frigates, space admirals, space navies, space marines, skippers, and people shouting "aye aye". Yarr me hearties, thar be star whales to hunt!

At this point I'm shouting at the tide to go back. This "tradition" will be continued mindlessly for an eternity by people who don't care, or worse, like the idea of using all these terms. These people are possibly worse than Hitler.

But ME was a tribute to 70s and 80s sci fi films. It was supposed to have the kind of leaps and tropes in many ways, and it great and there's nothing wrong with that plan. Sexy blue aliens are okay, but do not repeat those naval terms? Okay.

Default Shepards are renegades, though.

For instance, default Shep killed the Rachni Queen and the Council.

I don't agree that the default import state represent the idealized Shepard presented in the writing and marketing from BioWare.

 

[wolfhowwl]

"Default" Shepard also kills Wrex and shit, so he automatically sucks.

What a waste. Killing him in ME3 is so much more satisfying.

The game needed more stuff like that, perhaps there could have been vengeful Quarian assassins coming after Shepard if you abandoned them to die over Rannoch.

 

[Patryn]

I don't agree that the default import state represent the idealized Shepard presented in the writing and marketing from BioWare.

I don't think you're looking at this unbiased. For one thing, you can ignore the marketing, as the team making the game doesn't have a lot of say in that.

What they do have say in is the default state, and that's renegade. In addition the background leans toward renegade, as Earthborn gives a renegade bonus and sole survivor is neutral. If he's supposed to be paragon he'd be a spacer war hero.

Hell, even the demo vid that plays during the attract screen has Shepard ignoring a colony's distress call.

 

[The Artisan]

"Default" Shepard also kills Wrex and shit, so he automatically sucks.

I think for a series like ME, default doesn't necessarily = canon.

 

[Rhomega Beta]

Done with my replay of ME2. Everyone survived this time (Legion and Thane died the first round). Now I'm downloading ME3, and this time I'm going to beat it.

 

[inky]

I think for a series like ME, default doesn't necessarily = canon.

Never said it was canon. I even used air quotes for "default".

Spoiler

Although I'm guessing you didn't catch my Dr. Evil impression through your monitor

Pantheon is the one saying canon shepard is a paragon soldier.

 

[DOWN]

I don't think you're looking at this unbiased. For one thing, you can ignore the marketing, as the team making the game doesn't have a lot of say in that.

What they do have say in is the default state, and that's renegade. In addition the background leans toward renegade, as Earthborn gives a renegade bonus and sole survivor is neutral. If he's supposed to be paragon he'd be a spacer war hero.

Hell, even the demo vid that plays during the attract screen has Shepard ignoring a colony's distress call.

I didn't say this definitively so maybe you misread and don't have the context. No need to repeat myself:

I don't think anyone believes bioware's weak default world states are their intended best outcomes, so rather, maybe I'll call it canon paragon, regardless of the flaws there are in trying to nail down what marketing and BioWare idealist Shepard is.

And I think you seem to have misunderstood the statement about my ME1 Shepard as a confirmation of whatever the BioWare idealist Shepard may be. And perhaps remember that there was no ME1 default world state until ME2, so the ME1 era's implied defaults came only from the marketing, writing, and BioWare presentations.

And the distress call ad surely doesn't imply anything more than a regret for him having too little time and resources in difficult choices. All they do is pick a different route they need to go on as Shepard looks disappointedly with no context to suggest it's anything but a forced choice due to time and resources, not lack of empathy characteristic of a renegade.