Poodlestrike
Banned
Either they plan the trilogy now (and thus shackle themselves to that particular structure) or they entirely renounce any idea of doing a trilogy and go for a more serialized format.
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The Mass Effect Community Thread
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Either they plan the trilogy now (and thus shackle themselves to that particular structure) or they entirely renounce any idea of doing a trilogy and go for a more serialized format.
Well, they don't need to necessarily plan a trilogy format for the story as much as plan out how the lore and world state will work over many games.
Poodlestrike
Banned
They kind of do, if they want to avoid an ME3-style ending fiasco again.
Except that I think they realize they're never going to do that.
They've clearly decided to tackle each game on its own, so having a more open-ended non-trilogy structure works a lot better.
For all its flaws, this is something the DA crew do brilliantly. Hopefully of they build a Keep-type system it'll help them track the story too.
I'm not arguing against a serialised main narrative, I'm just saying they need to iron out where they want their universe and lore to go for the sake of consistency.
I agree that's nice, I'm just saying that's not going to happen.
They didn't do that with Mass Effect 2, and they didn't do it with Mass Effect 3.
They haven't done that with Dragon Age.
They haven't? Dragon Age has a remarkable level of consistency in the lore, I'm having trouble believing anyone could write that shit on the fly.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
It's not easy, but it's not crazy hard to write lore and make it fit a narrative.
They could go the Skyrim route: Have the main story be simply about saving the world/colony/whatever with no choices to make. There could be more branching in the side quests, potentially involving your crew, but the actual canon is fixed.
Therefore, they could do whatever they want to do in the plot of the next game, and have a few references to your side-quests here and there.
DA has a somewhat fixed narrative itself as it has its own story arc over the past few games, but they offer some level of flexibility that can change whether the world views you as a hero or monster.
I.e. Kieran, Well of Sorrows, etc. Decisions that give you a different story while staying on the same path
Edit: anyone else see that Hudson left Bioware?
Poodlestrike
Banned
I only saw Weekes' tweet this morning about him joining MS Studios.9 months ago, yes.
For some reason, i don't see them NOT making another trilogy. Or at least a game where decisions don't import to the next one.
As much as they failed to do it properly with ME1 to ME3, people will always feel like this is part of Mass Effect, if you know what I mean.
As much as they failed to do it properly with ME1 to ME3, people will always feel like this is part of Mass Effect, if you know what I mean.
They do have all the major lore points and developments planned in advance. Like, they knew that at some point
they'd reveal some Elven Gods were still kicking, and Flemeth-as-Mythal was clearly planned from the start. In the future they'll reveal the true origin of the Blight, I'm sure.
It's actually a good thing they don't have specifics planned out, if you ask me. It lets them be flexible and creative in the short-term while still having a good outline long-term.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Disagree. It's best to plan everything out as well as you can, so long as you remain unafraid to improvise and change plans as your understanding of what does and does not work with the characters changes.
If you're improvising and changing plans whenever a better idea comes up, then you aren't really planning specifics at all. You have ideas, sure, as anyone does, but I think we're actually on the same page when it comes to the benefits of flexibility. It's the same with, say, the Suikoden series: plan the overarching themes and plotlines, but leave the stuff specific to each game on the table as malleable.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Disagree; having a big, overarching plan ahead of time and altering as the need arises is fundamentally different from making it up as you go. Sometimes, characters change unexpectedly (or, at least, they do if they're well written); altering your plans to accommodate for that is just good plotting. Making it up as you go is... not so much
I think the key issue with ME versus DA is that ME didn't seem to plan anything out. With DA we have a cohesive overarching storyline that doesn't fuck itself as well as self contained stories in each game.Disagree; having a big, overarching plan ahead of time and altering as the need arises is fundamentally different from making it up as you go. Sometimes, characters change unexpectedly (or, at least, they do if they're well written); altering your plans to accommodate for that is just good plotting. Making it up as you go is... not so much
Poodlestrike
Banned
Agreed.
This also loops back around to the trilogy structure discussion; a trilogy is, by nature, more tightly wound than an open-ended serial story. By adopting it, Bioware placed certain expectations on the first game (and the plot points seeded therein) that it (they) simply couldn't accommodate.
DA seems to be a mix of both, you have serialised stories taking place on a backdrop that spans 3 games.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Yeah, but it's not a trilogy, just the third game in a series. It doesn't try to wrap up the plot points laid out in the first game. Hell, most of it comes from an expansion pack for the second!
Disagree; having a big, overarching plan ahead of time and altering as the need arises is fundamentally different from making it up as you go. Sometimes, characters change unexpectedly (or, at least, they do if they're well written); altering your plans to accommodate for that is just good plotting. Making it up as you go is... not so much
Are we actually disagreeing? I already said DA has a big, overarching plan, but that they leave the specifics of each game fairly open. That doesn't mean they have no ideas for what future games may contain, of course.
And an expansion pack of the first. The Architect being the first ancient magister you find.
I think we're all on the same page here.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Just on the specifics, I think
I say: plan it all out, as much as you can, and change it as you need to. You say: leave it a little bit vague going forward. Mostly the same, I guess.Sorta. The Architect himself doesn't make an appearance, does he? I mean, it's technically the same plot thread, but without any of the characters surrounding it.
Inquisition is a sequel to DAO as far as the deeper lore is concerned regarding the gods (old, elven, forgotten), while the main plot thread succeeds DA2.Just on the specifics, I think
Sorta. The Architect himself doesn't make an appearance, does he? I mean, it's technically the same plot thread, but without any of the characters surrounding it.
One of my issues with ME ties back to this in that it had a great cast, but the nature of the reapers made it hard to have a deeper lore until Javik and the Leviathans came around.
I am actually a pretty big fan of the Leviathan/Catalyst plotline as an idea, and I often think about ideas how they could have integrated it better into the trilogy.
Certainly, the biggest opportunity would have been in Mass Effect 2, a game I think most degree is wasted as the middle section of the Reaper arc. I think the Crucible plans should have been discovered at the end of ME2, and possibly worked in exposing the Catalyst as the "mastermind" behind the Reapers then.
Otherwise, there's just too much of a hope for the Catalyst to shock and stimulate as an end plot twist, when it's actually something that really needs a lot of explanation to work.
Maybe Javik is discovered at the beginning of ME2. This eventually leads to him telling you about the Crucible, and the game is about finding the plans.
I largely agree, I think that From Ashes and Leviathan contributed positively to the lore, but by the time they rolled around it was too little too late.
It's pretty effing exciting, not gonna lie.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
IMO I agree with those who say ME4 should not be planned as a trilogy and every effort should be made for the game to stand on its own. I want it to feel like it tells a complete story that stands on its own and has a bonafide ending that provides closure.
I don't know about you, but I am sick and tired of seeing games and movies being made to setup sequels and franchises.
I don't know about you, but I am sick and tired of seeing games and movies being made to setup sequels and franchises.
I am the Spock and T'Pol of opinions on this entertainment-spanning debate, forever of two minds, two worlds.
On the one hand I absolutely agree. Fully-realized, totally-told stories are a thing of beauty. If I can begin a thing, reach the middle of said thing, arrive at the end of said thing, and feel completely whole... that's a good, good feeling. Too frequently in modern media so much is perpetually held back, all the better to convince newly-built audiences that the best is yet to come. "2018 will be so good for Marvel." "Just wait until the fifth Dragon Age game; that's where it'll be really crazy."
On the other hand I can't get enough of shared universes. I used the Vulcan analogy because, growing up, Star Trek was my shared universe. There was a synergy in 90s Trek that many younger consumers would think was invented by Kevin Feige. I ate it all up. And for more centralized, focused IPs, such as Mass Effect, I ate up all the speculation between chapters. Hungrily. Fandom guessing games are one of the best aspects of entertainment and the ever-present feeling that a given franchise is far from truly over is a comfort. There are a great many things on the market that I do not like, so it's a joy knowing the things I do like are ongoing, ever-evolving.
But those evolutions can become devolutions. And that ongoing nature can prove detrimental as hell to each piece of the tapestry. And the thought that I won't be able to experience a full video game trilogy all at once, in all its glory, through all its triumphs to all its failures, for something like six or seven years past its initial unveiling... well, that's a highly bittersweet sensation. Who's to say I'll be alive then? Who's to say BioWare won't go under, somehow? Indeed, who is to say the original creative vision behind such a venture will be remotely in-line with what we see by the third entry? No one. No one knows.
For all that cautionary philosophy, however, still, I love it. And while I'm doubtful the new game is being planned as a trilogy in the same vein as Shepard's saga, I hope it feels like one anyway, when all is said and done. Because I want to look back and feel like I truly knew these characters, this setting. I watched them mature, transform. And I haven't seen a single video game capable of that degree of narrative fullness since the halcyon days of Square.
On the one hand I absolutely agree. Fully-realized, totally-told stories are a thing of beauty. If I can begin a thing, reach the middle of said thing, arrive at the end of said thing, and feel completely whole... that's a good, good feeling. Too frequently in modern media so much is perpetually held back, all the better to convince newly-built audiences that the best is yet to come. "2018 will be so good for Marvel." "Just wait until the fifth Dragon Age game; that's where it'll be really crazy."
On the other hand I can't get enough of shared universes. I used the Vulcan analogy because, growing up, Star Trek was my shared universe. There was a synergy in 90s Trek that many younger consumers would think was invented by Kevin Feige. I ate it all up. And for more centralized, focused IPs, such as Mass Effect, I ate up all the speculation between chapters. Hungrily. Fandom guessing games are one of the best aspects of entertainment and the ever-present feeling that a given franchise is far from truly over is a comfort. There are a great many things on the market that I do not like, so it's a joy knowing the things I do like are ongoing, ever-evolving.
But those evolutions can become devolutions. And that ongoing nature can prove detrimental as hell to each piece of the tapestry. And the thought that I won't be able to experience a full video game trilogy all at once, in all its glory, through all its triumphs to all its failures, for something like six or seven years past its initial unveiling... well, that's a highly bittersweet sensation. Who's to say I'll be alive then? Who's to say BioWare won't go under, somehow? Indeed, who is to say the original creative vision behind such a venture will be remotely in-line with what we see by the third entry? No one. No one knows.
For all that cautionary philosophy, however, still, I love it. And while I'm doubtful the new game is being planned as a trilogy in the same vein as Shepard's saga, I hope it feels like one anyway, when all is said and done. Because I want to look back and feel like I truly knew these characters, this setting. I watched them mature, transform. And I haven't seen a single video game capable of that degree of narrative fullness since the halcyon days of Square.
dancrane212
Member
I'd much prefer another trilogy or at least another set of games staring the ME4 protagonist/NPCs. Having the same cast of characters (that expanded with each game) is a big reason why I prefer Mass Effect over Dragon Age.
I think Bioware's original plan was for Hawke to star in multiple games.
The reception to DA2 squashed that idea.
Thank fucking Christ. I
sacrificed
edit: I'd prefer a new protag for each game anyway. Fresh main character with their own unique background affected by events of the previous game.
The Artisan
Member
although there may have been games I enjoyed more, Me2 may be the game that has most changed and impacted my life in gaming, ever.
it always goes back and forth between it and Uc2. there my 2 all time favorites.
The Artisan
Member
I think I know what you mean. there have been games I've probably logged way more hours into than Me2, like MW2, but Me2 had the bigger impact for me in my life in gaming.
The Artisan
Member
or...Love ME to death but I still haven't played ME2's Overlord and Arrival DLC and most of 3's DLC. The latter on account of my 360 RROD'ing. All this talk of maybe some ME news next month has me contemplating digging up a 360 somwhere and get back in
get the remastered versions when and if they release, if you've got a new gen console
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
It pretty much never goes on sale. On 360 and PS3 it occasionally happens but don't bet on it any time soon.
On PC, you can pretty much forget about it.
When it comes to the Mass Effect DLC I honestly think it's best to wait and see what happens at E3 as far as a trilogy being rereleased.
Getting all three games packaged for $60 on current gen with all DLC would actually end up being cheaper than buying the dirt cheap main games on 360/PS3 then investing in the DLC.
If that doesn't happen at E3, then I dunno what to tell you.
The Artisan
Member
this game's got me thinking for a while now. I remember way back when the rumors about the Ps3 version of the game were abound, and then Bioware announces that the game will actually come to Ps3. Then it released, and I decided to wait like 6 months before trying the game out, I guess coz I found it at a low price and wanted to see what all the commotion was about (I was obviously aware that it was critically acclaimed).
And boy, did it really change gaming for me. Which is to say, like I mentioned earlier on, how impactful it was to my gaming life. Going back, I think I should've purchased it the second month it was released (the first month I still remember that there were save crashing issues) and I only didn't because it launched at full price, despite being a year old game. Yes it came with all the DLC, but still. But that's what I'm saying - going back, I would've changed my mindset to have bought it earlier on.
And boy, did it really change gaming for me. Which is to say, like I mentioned earlier on, how impactful it was to my gaming life. Going back, I think I should've purchased it the second month it was released (the first month I still remember that there were save crashing issues) and I only didn't because it launched at full price, despite being a year old game. Yes it came with all the DLC, but still. But that's what I'm saying - going back, I would've changed my mindset to have bought it earlier on.
Emulated Hype
Member
I've been replaying 1-3 and mopping up the last few trophies that I needed after buying the Trilogy on the PSN sale. Honestly, I'm surprised how well 1 & 2 have aged graphically.
Sure the body animations are dated, some of the props look like they were rendered on a PS2 and there's a crappy vignette effect smudging the corners of the screen. But man was the art direction for this series fantastic.
Sure the body animations are dated, some of the props look like they were rendered on a PS2 and there's a crappy vignette effect smudging the corners of the screen. But man was the art direction for this series fantastic.
The urge to play ME again is growing strong in me. I've been playing a ton of SWTOR lately, but I just finished my Trooper's class story and the desire to keep playing is waning.
Meanwhile, ME sounds like just the right thing. But I'm going to hold strong and wait for E3. On the chance they do announce a remaster, I want to have had a long break from the series before diving back in.
Meanwhile, ME sounds like just the right thing. But I'm going to hold strong and wait for E3. On the chance they do announce a remaster, I want to have had a long break from the series before diving back in.
The Artisan
Member
garrus/turians always kinda look feline to me, despite the fact that they're supposed to be avian.Oh man, revisiting ME1 in downsampled 4K with the complete MEUITM texture/shading mod.
edit:
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Witcher 3 had been occupying my game time. ME4 should take a lot of design cues from that game.
I bought Mass Effect digital on 360 for, like, $3 and have yet to get even a hour into it. It looks like every other one after the first has better environments and whatnot, characters all stay the same through it all? Or am I picking a new one each time? I want to play through it in preparation of 2,3 and hopefully 4 but it seems so plane and dated to play today.
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