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The Mass Effect Community Thread

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It's just a bandwagon effect. There are a lot of diehards on here that were big fans of Bioware's 'olden days'. Baldur's Gate, DAO, KOTOR, etc.

They feel Bioware was a leader in WRPGs at "one point", and that they lost their way. They cite the plot holes of the ME trilogy, the debacle around DA2 and the "MMOy" DAI as the 'modern Bioware' and it becomes an echo chamber so people will take any chance they can get to take pot shots. Those are valid criticisms but many posts are just cheap drive bys because it's fun to pile on. You can tell it's a vocal minority when you see things like DAI high up on this site's GOTY list or Andromeda quite high up on most anticipated lists.

I don't really engage in it any more.
 

DevilDog

Member
I always read all the responses but I think it's just better to go with that shinobi six-o-two said.

I don't want to engage in it anymore, let everyone hate on as much as they want and hope some people will be sensible enough to see through it all and maybe come here and have some fun discussions :3
 

Renekton

Member
At least the BG era folks tuned out of for good, having got their PoE, Tyranny and AoD. Back in 2014 they were hopping mad at Bioware.
 
Word.

I just want them to hit an unqualified home run.

No need for excuses, no 'it's okay if you stay on the critical path', no 'it's much better with DLC', no 'yeah, that character is grating but you don't have to take her', no 'combat is less boring if you pick this class', no 'it makes more sense if you read the comics/novels', no 'The Witcher III isn't perfect either', no 'they still have time to polish before release', no 'I like the story beats on paper but the execution is a bit flat'... none of that.

Would be good if the fandom could get off the defensive along with BioWare itself.

Just be good, Andromeda.
And sort out your marketing, EA.

Literally never going to happen. Not because it won't be great (it very well could be, and I think it will be), but because these things are subjective. There's no way there won't be people bored by the side content, annoyed by a character, dissatisfied with the combat, confused by the story, or just overall happier with TW3. And that's before you factor in the fact that a lot of people are going to go into this prepared to despise it, and as such, a lot of them will. People looking for things to hate usually find them.

A great game can reduce the degree of threadshitting and other problems, but it's always going to happen.

At least the BG era folks tuned out of for good, having got their PoE, Tyranny and AoD. Back in 2014 they were hopping mad at Bioware.

I almost feel like those games have exacerbated the issue, tbh. Now, you still get the RAEG BIOWARE ATE MY CHILDHOOD post, there's also a contemptuous followup about how they can still play real RPGs.
 

Plasma

Banned
I've been replaying ME3 again recently and today I made it to Thessia, the end of that mission is still absolutely terrible. You can utterly destroy Kai Leng in that boss fight and still it goes to a cutscene where Shepard and her companions just forget how to fight, that part of the game still makes me mad. But then I finished Horizon and started the Citadel DLC and all my dislike is gone because of just how good it is, you can really tell just by playing through it that a lot of effort was put in from the devs to make things right. I honestly think that DLC is half the reason I'm still interested in Andromeda, if they'd just left ME3 as it was I don't think I would have been that interested in seeing where the franchise went next.
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
BioWare will never not be the gamer's punching bag in particularly from the rise of precious, petulant manchildren swarming online gaming communities with their brazen paranoia towards supposed SJW indoctrination and conspiracy to dismantle video games as we know it.

Irrespective of context, the moment a homosexual or transgender character is noted in their games, or even just (in particular) a female character exhibiting traits at odds with gender roles as established by traditional conservative family units, is the moment /v/ (aka /pol/), reddit, and other dumbfucks have a meltdown.

That's how modern BioWare is vocally received in the modern online echochamber perpetuating through many communities, where discourse is discouraged in favour of being the loudest, most hysterical, hyperbolic dickhead.
 

DevilDog

Member
BioWare will never not be the gamer's punching bag in particularly from the rise of precious, petulant manchildren swarming online gaming communities with their brazen paranoia towards supposed SJW indoctrination and conspiracy to dismantle video games as we know it.

Irrespective of context, the moment a homosexual or transgender character is noted in their games, or even just (in particular) a female character exhibiting traits at odds with gender roles as established by traditional conservative family units, is the moment /v/ (aka /pol/), reddit, and other dumbfucks have a meltdown.

That's how modern BioWare is vocally received in the modern online echochamber perpetuating through many communities, where discourse is discouraged in favour of being the loudest, most hysterical, hyperbolic dickhead.
To be honest I don't think those lunatics are the core of the hate. I haven't even seen reddit have a meltdown over a gay character? Where is the hate for reddit coming from anyway?

I feel like you're in your own bubble in regards to this, people usually hate BioWare for their identity shifts and good ol' fashioned problems like writing and gameplay issues.
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
To be honest I don't think those lunatics are the core of the hate. I haven't even seen reddit have a meltdown over a gay character? Where is the hate for reddit coming from anyway?

I feel like you're in your own bubble in regards to this, people usually hate BioWare for their identity shifts and good ol' fashioned problems like writing and gameplay issues.

I don't think I'm in my own bubble, but I've probably spent way too much time on /v/, where discussion of BioWare games is literally impossible.

But yes, the identity shifts and what not are at the guts of the cynicism. I guess I've never been overly invested in the change as I wasn't all that attached to old BioWare in the first place. I don't really like the AD&D ruleset so I didn't fall in love with Baldur's Gate. I gravitated to the works of Interplay and Troika more, preferring Fallout, Planescape, Arcanum, etc over what BioWare was producing. And as much as I love KOTOR, I was ultimately more impressed with KOTOR2.

Honestly Mass Effect is probably the only BioWare franchise I've really gone super crazy about. I don't even like Dragon Age all that much.
 

Sou Da

Member
I don't think I'm in my own bubble, but I've probably spent way too much time on /v/, where discussion of BioWare games is literally impossible.

But yes, the identity shifts and what not are at the guts of the cynicism. I guess I've never been overly invested in the change as I wasn't all that attached to old BioWare in the first place. I don't really like the AD&D ruleset so I didn't fall in love with Baldur's Gate. I gravitated to the works of Interplay and Troika more, preferring Fallout, Planescape, Arcanum, etc over what BioWare was producing. And as much as I love KOTOR, I was ultimately more impressed with KOTOR2.

Honestly Mass Effect is probably the only BioWare franchise I've really gone super crazy about. I don't even like Dragon Age all that much.

Stop trying to find Sonic threads to pleasure yourself to. /vg/ has a /meg/ but they pretty much talk in circles there and most of it is waifuposting, what was funny was that there used to be so little of an audience for Witcher there that they always had to hijack the dragon age general to stimulate any sort of discussion.

While I agree that most gripes are legitimate, I can't really buy the "identity shift" thing. A lot of people like to push the "everyone good left" but writing wise the most prominent folks from most of the popular games are just shifted around. This isn't even mentioning Helper who despite writing some of the best from Bioware that /v/ type folks wax on endlessly about was ran out by the same proto-GG people and Gaider was loathed for having a damn backbone.

Most of the decisions they've made that people feel are making their games worse (cinematic presentation, player VA, action based combat, open world) all just seem to be the results of them correctly reading where the market is going. I don't like most of it but a lot of their problems with this seem to be entrenched in also trying to please everyone, which is why stuff like ME dedicating themselves to smooth action and DA (maybe) going for a lower budget turn based game give me confidence.

I'm rambling but TL;DR: people act like jilted ex-lovers for a lot of reasons, BW seems to have a better grasp on what do moving forward, and KOTOR 2 was a mediocre Avellone lecture that happened to have some cool characters.
 

diaspora

Member
I want to say that I enjoyed POE but the fog of war is so fucking obnoxious, and disabling it kills achievements.

Anyway, as far as ME and DA is concerned IMO they've all gotten better as far as gameplay is concerned with each successive title. While I didn't appreciate the weak tactical options, and zones in DAI, I found the whole of the game more playable and better written than Origins; with ME3 basically everything barring the ending completely outshines their previous efforts.

edit: Lack of brutal kills hurts though.
 

Patryn

Member
I think a lot of the hate on GAF is simply console warz nonsense translated to game genres. Basically, there can only be one king of RPGs, and thus Bioware must be torn down so that people's preferred game be elevated, whether that be Witcher or Dark Souls or what have you. Add into that the echo chamber effect and desire to pile on, combined with far too many people doing drive by posts and not reading the reasons that people like these games.

Because the fact of the matter is that not a lot of other companies are doing games like Bioware, where it's on-foot and party-based in real time with pause.

However I will say there is a level of vitriol towards Bioware a bit more than most companies, but I may simply be more aware of the criticism simply because Bioware is my favorite developer, despite their problems.

On a more relevant topic: Any guesses when they finally announce the release date for Andromeda? We're now less than 3 months from the end of March if they're really still targeting that. I figure if they haven't announced a date by Valentine's Day, it has to be have been pushed back to Q2.
 

Bisnic

Really Really Exciting Member!
We're supposed to have a new trailer/video in 2 days right? Maybe there... although that would surprised me honestly.
 

Patryn

Member
We're supposed to have a new trailer/video in 2 days right? Maybe there... although that would surprised me honestly.

Yeah, I honestly don't expect much revealed there.

My guess is either beginning of February or I have no idea. I can't see them giving less than 6 weeks to prepare the runway.
 
imagine if EA actually got their shit together marketing one of their biggest franchises that supposedly coming out in a few months

maybe they wouldn't be so much open cynicism and derision if they gave people some focused media on whats new and exciting about Andromeda instead of "hey kids, its mass effect! Again!"
 

Sou Da

Member
imagine if EA actually got their shit together marketing one of their biggest franchises that supposedly coming out in a few months

maybe they wouldn't be so much open cynicism and derision if they gave people some focused media on whats new and exciting about Andromeda instead of "hey kids, its mass effect! Again!"

You ain't lying. All we've seen is stuff that could easily have been in a ME1 remake so far.
 

Patryn

Member
imagine if EA actually got their shit together marketing one of their biggest franchises that supposedly coming out in a few months

maybe they wouldn't be so much open cynicism and derision if they gave people some focused media on whats new and exciting about Andromeda instead of "hey kids, its mass effect! Again!"

Based on what has been said, I honestly believe that this is an experiment by EA. My guess is that they're testing out not announcing a release date until they're 100 percent certain that it can't slip.

As for the media campaign, I have no idea. I definitely would label it underwhelming.
 
We already know that the marketing blitz is supposed to ramp up this month, first with the CES conference and then later supposedly with an IGN blowout and another possible Andromeda Initiative video. We also know that something about the soundtrack is coming this month. The christmas/holiday break was basically the final pause before the storm.

That being said the devs have been adamant that they don't want to show off or talk about too many specific game details because they believe a lot of the games' content needs to be experienced first hand rather than explained and spoiled through videos and interviews. And I agree, I felt Mass Effect 2 suffered greatly from basically having everything spoiled and spelled out in the marketing campaign. Hell the launch trailer for 2 pretty much showed all of the story cutscenes and locations from the end of the game.
 

Sou Da

Member
Based on what has been said, I honestly believe that this is an experiment by EA. My guess is that they're testing out not announcing a release date until they're 100 percent certain that it can't slip.

As for the media campaign, I have no idea. I definitely would label it underwhelming.


Vince_Zampella_reaping_the_vast_benefits_of_Titanfall2s_release_date.png

wew.
 

Patryn

Member
We already know that the marketing blitz is supposed to ramp up this month, first with the CES conference and then later supposedly with an IGN blowout and another possible Andromeda Initiative video. We also know that something about the soundtrack is coming this month. The christmas/holiday break was basically the final pause before the storm.

That being said the devs have been adamant that they don't want to show off or talk about too many specific game details because they believe a lot of the games' content needs to be experienced first hand rather than explained and spoiled through videos and interviews. And I agree, I felt Mass Effect 2 suffered greatly from basically having everything spoiled and spelled out in the marketing campaign. Hell the launch trailer for 2 pretty much showed all of the story cutscenes and locations from the end of the game.

I'm not asking for them to reveal everything. My ideal trailer, and the last thing I would need to see:

A player goes into the menu, equips a new weapon and sets skills. Then hops in the Mako and drives around for a minute or two. Probably should scan something or other. Then get into a combat encounter. Follow the full combat encounter and have the player level up. Go through the level up process, and end.

5 minutes, max, and that pretty much has everything else I need to see.
 
im just sayin, whenever you wanna start the commercials introducing us to the cast of characters we're supposed to give a damn about, we'll be ready

I'm not asking for them to reveal everything. My ideal trailer, and the last thing I would need to see:

A player goes into the menu, equips a new weapon and sets skills. Then hops in the Mako and drives around for a minute or two. Probably should scan something or other. Then get into a combat encounter. Follow the full combat encounter and have the player level up. Go through the level up process, and end.

That pretty much has everything else I need to see.

man's thats like the last damn thing we need. That just confirms everybody's fears that its just another boring open world game where you run around and do random grindy side quests with a bunch of reused assets.

They need to tell us what the story hook is, who are these characters, we need to see a narrative-heavy mission to show people that this is Mass Effect, and its big, and its new. Get people invested. Make people give a fuck, dont just rest on your franchise name and assume we'll all care because we did in 2012.
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Yeah, I've mentioned it countless times already, but I feel the marketing issue is less not having shown stuff (they clearly have) but the lack of tonal focus and coherency in what's been shown.

Narrative is such a massive part of the series appeal; who are we, who are our allies, what are the villains, where are we going, and why. Charting a course of adventure, setting the premise and tone. Not a single piece of media has established this, instead little bits and pieces scattered. And I think having a tonally focused, coherent trailer outlining the core premise and direction is absolutely essential in selling what might as well be a reboot.

I don't want them to spill their guts or anything. Keep secrets close. But yeah. The last three games at least had early marketing with a lot of focus on tone and intrigue, very quickly establishing the premise, with admittedly the benefit of being part of a concurrent narrative arc. This is totally fresh, and I can't blame many for thinking "what is this?".
 
Those ME2 character commercials were so superfluous though. The one you linked just shows thane trying to talk like a badass in CG (completely opposite of his overarching theme of redemption and self-reflection of a life of crime) and random clips of the AI character in-game shooting different stuff (some of the clips aren't even from content in the game relating to him).

Also those commercials didn't even pop up until the month before launch so I'm not entirely sure what BioWare or EA would stand to gain from putting out advertisements like that now 3-4 months in advance.
 
people keep posting that disarm gif cuz there's literally nothing else concrete to grab on to with this game right now. No sense of character, or dramatic stakes, or setting, or motivation, or a n y t h i n g.

You dont have to give us everything, but shit give us SOMETHING. And not some random tech demo at a CES show talking about HBAO+.
 

Renekton

Member
people keep posting that disarm gif cuz there's literally nothing else concrete to grab on to with this game right now. No sense of character, or dramatic stakes, or setting, or motivation, or a n y t h i n g.

You dont have to give us everything, but shit give us SOMETHING. And not some random tech demo at a CES show talking about HBAO+.
I disagree. There were many scenes like the combat which they can easily GIF up. More pressing things to talk about.

People just want to tunnel/meme-ify on something bad right now.
 

Bisnic

Really Really Exciting Member!
I disagree. There were many scenes like the combat which they can easily GIF up. More pressing things to talk about.

People just want to tunnel/meme-ify on something bad right now.

Right. The last trailer had plenty of cool moments to GIF. But of course someone had to do it on the worst 2 secs of the trailer and everybody focus on that now.

No surprise there.
 
They need to tell us what the story hook is, who are these characters, we need to see a narrative-heavy mission to show people that this is Mass Effect, and its big, and its new. Get people invested. Make people give a fuck, dont just rest on your franchise name and assume we'll all care because we did in 2012.
Yeah, I've mentioned it countless times already, but I feel the marketing issue is less not having shown stuff (they clearly have) but the lack of tonal focus and coherency in what's been shown.

Narrative is such a massive part of the series appeal; who are we, who are our allies, what are the villains, where are we going, and why. Charting a course of adventure, setting the premise and tone. Not a single piece of media has established this, instead little bits and pieces scattered. And I think having a tonally focused, coherent trailer outlining the core premise and direction is absolutely essential in selling what might as well be a reboot.

I don't want them to spill their guts or anything. Keep secrets close. But yeah. The last three games at least had early marketing with a lot of focus on tone and intrigue, very quickly establishing the premise, with admittedly the benefit of being part of a concurrent narrative arc. This is totally fresh, and I can't blame many for thinking "what is this?".
They should honestly just rip the voice over track from the first Andromeda Initiative orientation video and just build a trailer around that, because that at least seems to have a narrative focus that can be used to lay the ground work of the game's premise and tone. None of the other media have that, and it's why pretty much no one seems to know what the game's about.
 
I disagree. There were many scenes like the combat which they can easily GIF up. More pressing things to talk about.

People just want to tunnel/meme-ify on something bad right now.

imagine if they had something real to talk about instead of random glimpses of context free action
 

Sou Da

Member
They should honestly just rip the voice over track from the first Andromeda Initiative orientation video and just build a trailer around that, because that at least seems to have a narrative focus that can be used to lay the ground work of the game's premise and tone. None of the other media have that, and it's why pretty much no one seems to know what the game's about.

Pretty much all of the details first worldbuilding so far is locked away in videos most people won't see.

Sheamus wept.
 

Ivory Samoan

Gold Member
Imagine if we got a trailer of the quality of the ME2 launch trailer this month...... that would be something for sure.

EA's marketing team are really weird rolling up to release, I have to pinch myself when I remember the game's supposed to be coming out in a couple months, doesn't feel real.
 

Renekton

Member
imagine if they had something real to talk about instead of random glimpses of context free action
I believe GAFers will still tunnel on that disarm.

Memes are just so powerful today. A catchy 2s gif repeated many times completely buries any laundry list of features and minutes worth of orientation footage.
 

ViciousDS

Banned
Cross posting from the BC thread since this one is more busy


Replaying 2 ATM, skipped 1......I actually can't believe how bad it aged. But 2? Holy shit the fucking jump in quality, textures......man the jump to 3 is probably just as damn good.

I now understand why they removed the dungeon crawler aspect of the game. The amount of time I spend in the actual game menues in 2 is close to none......it is absolutely so well done and paced that it's fucking awesome. The very few times I go into the menu is for a quick quest recap or to upgrade skills. They made the game so menu minimalist it's absolutely a marvel in itself. The game is near 100% just playing the game and it's awesome. It also has great side quests it literally is a more linear witcher 3 and I wouldn't doubt if CDProjekt had some influence from this game. It's absolutely perfectly scaled and balanced and is easily my RTTP game of the year.

I actually never played 3 but am really interested in what carried over from the systems of the second one


My only gripe is how little selection there were of weapons if you didn't have DLC. Then again this was the whole EA push on fuck you if you buy it used movement




So yes, I will be probably one of the very few here who still has yet to touch 3. I'm aware of the ending insanity but honestly no mass effect has really had an amazing ending, it's the journey, characters and interactions that have led me to multiple play throughs and the awe into an absolutely fantastic world.


Shit even endings with complete closure like some most recent games still have me asking for more and more lol. I can never be satisfied.
 
I think a lot of the hate on GAF is simply console warz nonsense translated to game genres.

There is no one thing. Everything people have suggested is true, but only as part of a broader picture. Some people might be here to shit on it because it's not The Witcher 3 or because they love Obsidian. Somebody might be hating because they subconsciously felt uncomfortable when a gay man appeared in ME3. Somebody might be bandwagoning.

Modern Bioware games are certainly not well liked among the most hardcore of RPG gamers and the casual fans who like most major games aren't going to be caring enough to hunt down community threads on a videogame forum and tell you that they liked the game. These games sell millions and so they form a silent majority.
 
I don't understand the hate for Dragon Age: Inquisition. It was an advancement on what the other two games did in almost every way. There are a ton of sidequests to do, or not do based on how you choose to play... The story is good. I don't get it.


I'm more excited for Andromeda based on my enjoyment of DA:I.
 
Modern Bioware games are certainly not well liked among the most hardcore of RPG gamers and the casual fans who like most major games aren't going to be caring enough to hunt down community threads on a videogame forum and tell you that they liked the game. These games sell millions and so they form a silent majority.

You know, RPGCodex and the like claim to be hardcore RPG fans; but I went there to hunt down some mods for TOEE and shit like "Tome of Battle is overpowered!!!11!" was going unchallenged.
 

Maledict

Member
I don't understand the hate for Dragon Age: Inquisition. It was an advancement on what the other two games did in almost every way. There are a ton of sidequests to do, or not do based on how you choose to play... The story is good. I don't get it.


I'm more excited for Andromeda based on my enjoyment of DA:I.

For a lot of people, especially RPG fans, sidequests aren't optional. We've been trained over decades to do everything, consume all content. And for most people, DA has way too much filler side content if you take that approach.

Also, the Hinterlands was really, *really* bad. I still can't get over how badly they screwed the game over with that design choice.
 
I don't understand the hate for Dragon Age: Inquisition. It was an advancement on what the other two games did in almost every way. There are a ton of sidequests to do, or not do based on how you choose to play... The story is good. I don't get it.


I'm more excited for Andromeda based on my enjoyment of DA:I.

In gameplay, the system which one interacts with on a constant basis when playing the game, is not similar to the first two games. I would argue it's not even unambiguously better than the second game. The skill trees are much smaller, not just in terms of like how ME1 had a lot of rubbish points to invest that did nothing, but they actually cut out a huge amount of stuff that was there, active and passive abilities. The use of shield management instead of health management is of debatable value. It's different, but it's not really better. The game is designed to be mostly played in real time, instead of with frequent pauses for tactical considerations, they removed or great simplified the custom tactics stuff they had in the first game, and they replaced the top down view with this monstrosity of a "tactical camera" that puts you like 1 meter above the player's head.

Dragon Age Inquisition was only an advancement in gameplay if you happened to love the changes made and didn't like the original mechanics. Drawing another comparison with ME1/ME2, you could always tell that Mass Effect 1 really wanted to have good shooter mechanics, it just failed miserably. And ME2 played more similarly to the first game than Dragon Age Inquisition does to Dragon Age Origins or Dragon Age 2.

In terms of how the world behaves, DA:O was a large world map that connected both level hubs and small mission areas. The game was fairly focused once you arrived in an area, with a lot of content created for that area. In Dragon Age: Inquisition, the map connects massive wilderness areas that are extremely loosely focused and features primarily filler content, which is in some cases autogenerated. Despite superficial similarities in how the two games are structured, as a series of maps acting like islands in the sea of the strategic world view, the differences in actually playing it are quite stark.

A lot of Dragon Age: Inquisition's bad content is optional. That's true. But it certainly takes a long time to warm up top the fact that most quest markers are, frankly, trash quests that have no good reason to exist in the game. By the time you've learned this, you've wasted maybe 3-4 hours of your life collecting herbs and setting up base camps or similarly inane tasks before you realize that no, this doesn't end in the first area before the game gets good, actually the whole game is structured to have these things in most areas. Nor is it necessarily the case that once you realize this, you'll never have to do another one ever again. You have to gather sufficient Power to do certain things. And yes, while it's true that if you play your cards right you can do a bare minimum of these quests and achieve the requisite power, that's not what most people's experiences will be with the game. Usually you'll be like "oh I'm getting bored, why don't I do one of those actually fun story quests again" and then go out and do your camp setups to gather the little bit of power you need to unlock the next thing straight away.

Then there's the crappy metagame layer. It's not very engaging, you just sort of see quests on the map and delegate it to someone. Then there's a real world timer and you get rewards and sometimes flavour text. Every now and again something cool might happen, like a prisoner comes in for you to judge, but interesting things are few and far between.

Ultimately, I came to a point where I said to myself - why am I still playing this game? Why does my quest log feel like a list of chores instead of fun? Why am I navigating a minefield of mediocrity inbetween deciding what to do between the actually interesting parts of the game? So I never finished it. I got ~33 hours into it, according to Origin, and didn't finish the story. I probably could have if I'd beelined it or something, but I was honestly giving the game a chance early on. I can't imagine what this game would be like if I was one of the OCD-completionist gamers. It'd be a circle of hell unto itself.

I don't even want to seem like I'm holding up DA:O as a paragon of videogame design. I think it's shonky and flawed in a lot of areas. If I never see the deep roads again it will be too soon (Fade isn't actually bad, haters step off). People criticize DA:I for being an offline MMO because of a lot of its systems, but the core gameplay of DA:O always felt a bit MMOish in how the combat was structured. It has it's share of shit small quests too (just not on the same scale). What I will say is this, though - DA:I is an extremely different type of game, and I don't think it's improved in as many areas as you do.
 

Patryn

Member
For a lot of people, especially RPG fans, sidequests aren't optional. We've been trained over decades to do everything, consume all content. And for most people, DA has way too much filler side content if you take that approach.

Also, the Hinterlands was really, *really* bad. I still can't get over how badly they screwed the game over with that design choice.

I really do hope they learn their lessons from the Hinterlands. I'm speaking as someone who fucking loved Inquisition, has put hundreds of hours into it, and the Hinterlands is both probably the second worst area, and possibly the most confusing and worst area of the game to start with.

I've said it before, but I really hope Bioware learned a primary lesson from them: Unless you absolutely force a player to leave an area early, plenty of players will press on to fully complete an area.

I think they wanted to teach players that they should leave maps and return to them, but then did almost nothing to impart this knowledge to the player. And, no, slightly harder enemies aren't the answer, because they were still low enough in level that people could eventually brute force them.

So you had players starting out in an area that feels disjointed with quests that don't really feed into one another getting frustrated because they're trying to progress because they keep getting quests but the enemies are extremely difficult but are still doable. And then when they finally do leave, they discover that they've accidentally overleveled themselves, leaving later story missions trivial and almost boring.

It's honestly not that intuitive that you're supposed to leave the Hinterlands almost immediately after arriving. The intended path was simply to go to the town, rescue Mother Giselle, do a couple quests and then leave, but this is only communicated to the player through a quest if they make it active, and occasional interjections from your party members.

Basically, for a game that is supposed to be for players who enjoy questing and exploring Bioware designed the initial area counter to almost every instinct those players would have. And hopefully Bioware has learned its lesson and if Andromeda has areas for players to explore and then return to they either put in hard locks on accessing areas that they shouldn't, or they have the difficulty spike be to such an extreme that players can't brute force it.
 

Renekton

Member
People criticize DA:I for being an offline MMO because of a lot of its systems, but the core gameplay of DA:O always felt a bit MMOish in how the combat was structured. It has it's share of shit small quests too (just not on the same scale). What I will say is this, though - DA:I is an extremely different type of game, and I don't think it's improved in as many areas as you do.
Slight nitpick, DA:O's combat is not MMOish. It uses BG2 and NWN beats, and in many areas is more faithful to those than Pillars of Eternity (sans WM which I have not played).
 

Stasis

Member
I'm not reading through this whole thread. No disrespect to anyone. I'm missing out on solid opinions and ideas for/of the series I'm sure. I apologize. But I do wanna get my opinion across.

For any Bioware employees: I loved ME1 but it took me a few times to get into it back then. I'm glad I did. ME2 just took me away fully. Basically living a space opera world. There were faults and issues here and there, sure, but you can't please everyone. I was in sci-fi heaven. Yes, some of the writing can be silly. Yes, some of the animations can be wacky. Still an amazing experience. And still top 3 overall for me.

ME3... At first I felt let down, betrayed even. But it grew on me. I fell in love. The ending was, as we all know, not great to put it mildly. But the fix and citadel dlc? I was in love again. You'd have to majorly fuck up for me to bail. I'm a day one customer no matter what.

All that said? Please don't DA:I this. I never finished Inquisition. I loved Origins. Played it twice. I even went through #2 in its entirety. Didn't love it but I finished it. Couldn't do Inquisition. Put it on pause and then The Witcher 3 came out. That was that.

Don't make Andromeda be the Inquisition of Mass Effect. That's all I ask. I'm a die-hard. I've played through ME 1-2-3 three times now. I've played through DA:O twice. I'm a day one Andromeda buyer with all collector's editions etc. 100%. But if you Inquisition my Mass Effect... I'm out. And I know I won't be the only one. We're hard to please but we're loyal. I am. I'm kind of annoyed that I didn't finish Inquisition but I can't go back to it. If CDPRs sci-fi title beats out Andromeda... It's on you. I hope not. I'll miss it. But the Witcher ruined dragon age for me. DA:O remains one of my top titles of all time, though.

You guys have made some of the most memorable characters I've ever encountered in a game and also some of the most forgetful. More of the former. Less of the latter. Less DA:I and more DA:O. I'm in all the way. I LOVE TW3, but it still doesn't touch Mass Effect for me. J'compte sur vous, 'sti. =P
 

Patryn

Member
Slight nitpick, DA:O's combat is not MMOish. It uses BG2 and NWN beats, and in many areas is more faithful to those than Pillars of Eternity (sans WM which I have not played).

Yeah, if you want MMOish combat, go play Xenoblade Chronicles. That shit is straight up MMO combat.


... I still like it, though.

I'm not reading through this whole thread. No disrespect to anyone. I'm missing out on solid opinions and ideas for/of the series I'm sure. I apologize. But I do wanna get my opinion across.

For any Bioware employees: I loved ME1 but it took me a few times to get into it back then. I'm glad I did. ME2 just took me away fully. Basically living a space opera world. There were faults and issues here and there, sure, but you can't please everyone. I was in sci-fi heaven. Yes, some of the writing can be silly. Yes, some of the animations can be wacky. Still an amazing experience. And still top 3 overall for me.

ME3... At first I felt let down, betrayed even. But it grew on me. I fell in love. The ending was, as we all know, not great to put it mildly. But the fix and citadel dlc? I was in love again. You'd have to majorly fuck up for me to bail. I'm a day one customer no matter what.

All that said? Please don't DA:I this. I never finished Inquisition. I loved Origins. Played it twice. I even went through #2 in its entirety. Didn't love it but I finished it. Couldn't do Inquisition. Put it on pause and then The Witcher 3 came out. That was that.

Don't make Andromeda be the Inquisition of Mass Effect. That's all I ask. I'm a die-hard. I've played through ME 1-2-3 three times now. I've played through DA:O twice. I'm a day one Andromeda buyer with all collector's editions etc. 100%. But if you Inquisition my Mass Effect... I'm out. And I know I won't be the only one. We're hard to please but we're loyal. I am. I'm kind of annoyed that I didn't finish Inquisition but I can't go back to it. If CDPRs sci-fi title beats out Andromeda... It's on you. I hope not. I'll miss it. But the Witcher ruined dragon age for me. DA:O remains one of my top titles of all time, though.

You guys have made some of the most memorable characters I've ever encountered in a game and also some of the most forgetful. More of the former. Less of the latter. Less DA:I and more DA:O. I'm in all the way. I LOVE TW3, but it still doesn't touch Mass Effect for me. J'compte sur vous, 'sti. =P

Can I ask one question: Why do you feel compelled to constantly bring up CDPR and The Witcher here? It doesn't seem to bear much relation to your final conclusion. It's not like you can't love Witcher and ME equally.

Also, from everything I've seen Cyberpunk 2077 and ME have very little to do with one another beyond both being under the umbrella term sci-fi. Cyberpunk is, well, cyberpunk and ME is space opera. There is a vast difference between the two.
 

Patryn

Member
43 posts in the latest Mass Effect thread for that stupid GIF to be posted.

Yeah, I really need to stop wasting my time in ME threads in general, given that a large vocal portion of GAF has written it off.

Meh, they were standard endings......nothing special. They weren't bad by any stretch......but they weren't amazing like some other games have been.

While I find 2's ending underwhelming, I personally think ME1's ending is amazing and one of my favorite endings of any game ever. Just that rush of exhilaration from the Trench Run to the end of M1 Part 2.
 

diaspora

Member
Every DA game hasa better ending than any ME game. The former ends by illustrating what happened to the cast of characters and what they plan to do next. ME doesn't.

Incidentally, DAI's combat is no more MMO-like than DAI, what the hell? Maybe it's because I played 100% of the combat in tactical mode but it didn't feel far removed from previous entries. Not to mention the magic skill trees were the best in the series.
 

Patryn

Member
Every DA game hasa better ending than any ME game. The former ends by illustrating what happened to the cast of characters and what they plan to do next. ME doesn't.

Incidentally, DAI's combat is no more MMO-like than DAI, what the hell? Maybe it's because I played 100% of the combat in tactical mode but it didn't feel far removed from previous entries. Not to mention the magic skill trees were the best in the series.

Eh, the original ending to DAI is pretty damn poor. It kind of just sputters out.

However, the ending to Trespasser is fucking amazing.

Especially the audio over the final credits.
 

diaspora

Member
Eh, the original ending to DAI is pretty damn poor. It kind of just sputters out.

However, the ending to Trespasser is fucking amazing.

Especially the audio over the final credits.
Sure, and I still find it better than any ending in ME which didn't really offer anything.

Edit: ending as in after the final mission rather than the final mission itself.
 

Patryn

Member
Sure, and I still find it better than any ending in ME which didn't really offer anything.

Depends on what you want out of an ending. As I said, I was satisfied by the ME1 ending, which I felt offered closure while also leaving things open for the later games.

Contrast that with ME2's ending, where I feel the first half of the Suicide Mission was the stronger half, and ending with the stupid human terminator and then Shepard walking through the Normandy and looking at a datapad. That didn't really get me pumped for the next game.

However, given that both games were part of a trilogy it makes sense that they couldn't offer full closure in the same way.

Honestly, though I'd put DA:I's original ending on par with the ending of ME2 bar one thing: the party which allowed you to talk to your party members.
 

diaspora

Member
Depends on what you want out of an ending. As I said, I was satisfied by the ME1 ending, which I felt offered closure while also leaving things open for the later games.

Contrast that with ME2's ending, where I feel the first half of the Suicide Mission was the stronger half, and ending with the stupid human terminator and then Shepard walking through the Normandy and looking at a datapad. That didn't really get me pumped for the next game.

However, given that both games were part of a trilogy it makes sense that they couldn't offer full closure in the same way.

Honestly, though I'd put DA:I's original ending on par with the ending of ME2 bar one thing: the party which allowed you to talk to your party members.
I feel like we're talking about two different things, as far as the final missions are concerned I agree with you- my problem with ME is that I get nothing afterwards.
 

Patryn

Member
I feel like we're talking about two different things, as far as the final missions are concerned I agree with you- my problem with ME is that I get nothing afterwards.

If we're separating the mission, I still enjoyed the closure of the emergence from the rubble and the walk away, coupled with the awesome song over the credits, but I can definitely see where you would think that underwhelming.
 
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