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The Mass Effect Community Thread
- Thread starter shinobi602
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DOWN
Banned
They haven't removed save importing. This game just doesn't tie to any other game to have needed imports, but it is almost guaranteed to happen for Andromeda 2.
And squad deaths are not in this entry because you could have the disappointing mess that happened for a lot of people with ME 3 where the cast people liked were largely reduced to small parts since they could have been dead and thus can't be big parts of the story. They become small potatoes because their deaths were possible too early.
DevilDog
Member
That's just looking at things wrong. ME2 overdid it with the character deaths because the whole game was a bunch of short sighted nonesense.
But look at ME1, Wrex's storyline is one of the best things in the trilogy.
Just becase one thing goes wrong doesn't mean it's justified to can the whole thing, especially when it's so unique and gives the game a whole other level of immersion that you just don't get anywhere else.
I guess scanning is more important.
Technically it isn't removed, but the vibe I'm getting is that choices and what not will be reduced to nothing in the next entry. Maybe a couple of references here and there. I hope they will prove me wrong and reach Genophage/Geth-Quarian situation levels.
And regards to the squad size, how about you don't go full bananas like ME2? Go slow and steady like ME1, only 2 deaths are possible and one of them is easy to fit in the next games with few alterations.
Branching story paths is what brings storytelling to new levels, impossible with other mediums. It's something worth fighting for in the industry.
Heckler456
Banned
I empathize with the people making games. I don't know how you would feel when you've put blood, sweat, and tears into making something, only for some vocal contingent to break apart every single solitary thing about it to absurdity, but I'd feel pretty terrible.
I am also profoundly annoyed by people who refuse to give the benefit of the doubt, instead choosing to employ hyperbole to break the game apart; and people who refuse to employ due diligence when they criticize things. As to the latter, I tend to find that people hide too easily under the umbrella of "aren't we here on Neogaf to talk about video games?" while their criticism couldn't be more worthless.
I mean, have you never noticed how a lot of people have simultaneously very low expectations for Bioware games (because "they made Dragon Age 2, Inquisition, and Mass Effect 3!" and "This is just going to be another Inquisition!") and very high expectations? (as in "Look at this looping animation! Doesn't this look weeeiirrddd?" or "Ryder's face looks monstrous!" or any of the other things) I have, and it bothers me. Which is why I'm choosing to remove myself from the vast majority of it, because I acknowledge the possibility that I either may be overreacting, or that it might not matter in the long run, and that I wouldn't have any influence over it even if it did.
Thanks for the explanation. Still think it's very strange, sorry.
moustascheman
Member
One thing I really do hope they improve is the hair options in the CC. The trilogy was absolutely terrible with this, with such a small selection of hair that seemed as if they consisted almost entirely of buzz cuts. The facial hair was even worse, where all the beard and moustasche options looked absolutely terrible. While I do like some of the hair they've shown so far like default Scott and Sara's hair, I really need to see more of the facial hair.
Retrofluxed
Member
Well shit, I was hoping we'd at least be able to pick hair style and color on the default faces.
Poodlestrike
Banned
This is basically where I'm at.
"Can you scan those rocks over there?"
"Hey, Pathfinder, this will enable an observer." "Hey Pathfinder, this enabled an observer, scanning the rocks (again) will cause him to destroy them." I don't care. I'm pre-ordering the game after cancelling it twice. I'm sure that somebody in EA must think I'm crazy. Just pre-order, be done with it.
The combat looks excruciatingly slow. Plus, "Gotta take out the trash, first." was cringe worthy at best.
Mediking
Member
AWizardDidIt
Member
Something I've come to realize over the past year or so is that Bioware specifically has a very dedicated audience that is invested in wanting them to fail. It blows my mind because I can totally get why people might not be fans of theirs anymore... following Baldur's Gate 2 with NWN, KOTOR, and Jade Empire totally didn't land with me and for a while Bioware went from the developer who made my favorite game to someone who made games that didn't really appeal to me. But what I didn't do was watch every bit of promo material and try to rip those games apart on message boards every day.
Now I'm gonna sound super political here so I'm spoiling this:
I think it's because there's a very specific conservative viewpoint, both politically in terms of female and LGBT representation and also in the sense of conservative perceptions of what "RPGs" should be, that is very ideologically opposed to how Bioware has developed as a company. A lot of that is rooted psychologically in a base cynicism that is concerned with controlling messaging in a way that makes your viewpoint appear superior by creating a consistent level of ambient negativity that it confuses casual onlookers into thinking a niche opinion is the norm which gets them involved in the conversation immediately from a position of being well acquainted with its faults while never giving the same amount of consideration to the things it does well.
That isn't to say Bioware is immune to criticism that can't be voiced on forums or anything or that everyone should like Bioware games. Again, I had a stretch there where I wasn't a fan either. There are just certain trends that make me think there's also this undercurrent adding to it. But I've been thinking about this a lot lately and probably overthinking things a bit much. I've thought about making a thread on it once or twice but figured it'd just get shitposted to death so decided it wasn't worth it.
At the end of the day, you're better off just ignoring the negativity. None of it really matters and the amount of sales a place like Neogaf actually impacts is negligible. Bioware's got a dedicated and consistent enough fanbase that they've weathered storms like the rush job on DA2 and the ME3 ending yet Inquisition still sold by all measures quite well. And they'll likely continue to create products that appeal to that subsection of gamers.
Yeah, I'm all for healthy skepticism but just about any bioware news these days seems to be met with alot of of snark and people assuming the worst.
Don't know how they got on people's shit list so quickly. There were problems with Mass Effect 3 and Dragon Age Inquisition but they were far from being something like another Dragon Age II.
shinobi602
Member
Said it before and I'll say it again, I'm of the opinion that a lot (note; not all) of these feelings arise from people who were fans of the studio when they were focused on heavy strategy and CRPGs. They consider these to be BioWare's "golden years" and can't stand the direction Bioware games have headed; that's to say, more cinematic and leaning on action more and more, while still retaining RPG mechanics. The resentment can lead to continual shitting.
That feeling colors a lot of perception.
(And sure, some of it is due to Bioware apparently being the bastion of "SJWs!")
That feeling colors a lot of perception.
(And sure, some of it is due to Bioware apparently being the bastion of "SJWs!")
Retrofluxed
Member
That's exactly what I was hinting at in my "but SWJs" posts. Thank you!
It isn't because it will.
Mediking
Member
Doesn't bother me at all. I play games for myself. I play games for enjoyment.
dr_rus
Member
Really? Problems? Like in small ones not worth even addressing with a post launch ending DLC?
You can certainly see where all the negativity comes from. The fact that they are pushing more of the same with MEA instead of trying to look at what went wrong between ME1 and ME3 and avoid it means that MEA will be met with an even harsher criticism.
It's also probably worth playing a bit of ME1 for some of you to understand why people are nearly offended by the bad animation in MEA as ME1 was literally a generational leap in this regard when it came out. Expectations are high.
No. These feelings arise from ME fans and ME was never a strategy and CRPG of old Bioware, it was always a cinematic TPS with an RPG elements. People want more of that but for the next generation of h/w, or at least more of that but without the obvious issues previous games had (story, gameplay) and without what is perceived as downgrades (the animation issue, crap PC models argument, etc). So far MEA is failing on nearly all of these in its showings so it's no wonder that fans are frustrated.
These old fans you're talking about - they stopped caring about Bioware a long time ago and they are playing Torment right now.
I can totally see this being a case of bad EA marketing and the game being awesome though. It's what I hope for at the moment.
moustascheman
Member
I find it kind of absurd that some peoples criticisms of this game is that its turning into a shooter or that it's not even an "RPG' anymore. The second point I find incredibly baffling considering the amount of build variety that was in ME3MP, and that what the new system seems to be doing is translating all the crazy powers that you had available in the multiplayer into the single player. It's especially silly when people lament about how Bioware removed rpg elements post ME1 considering that all the skill trees in that game were terrible, it was a slog to go a pure powers build since the cooldowns were ridiculously long, and most of the dialogue options were pointless and had no effect (the noveria office immediately comes to mind).
On a side note, while I can see why the ending and many of the story elements in ME3 burned people out of the game, I honestly still feel that it's the most enjoyable out of the trilogy to play. The levels are all unique and interesting, and the combat is really fun, giving you a much needed amount of mobility. The enemies are all more engaging to fight and the power combos make power builds fun to play. Even leaving out the multiplayer, I'd still be more likely to play ME3 over the other games in the trilogy.
On a side note, while I can see why the ending and many of the story elements in ME3 burned people out of the game, I honestly still feel that it's the most enjoyable out of the trilogy to play. The levels are all unique and interesting, and the combat is really fun, giving you a much needed amount of mobility. The enemies are all more engaging to fight and the power combos make power builds fun to play. Even leaving out the multiplayer, I'd still be more likely to play ME3 over the other games in the trilogy.
Tony Redgrave
Member
Sorry to intrude so to speak but I don't find it strange at all. I like Mass Effect as well and I too am annoyed about people piling on criticism toward minor things like facial expressions and such, as well as continously shitting on BioWare most of the time.
Mass Effect is my favorite videogame series and while I intellectually know that the game's performance sales-wise and the continuity of the series has little to do with a very small vocal minority, it still stings that most of what devs like Aaryn Flynn see in this site are negative attitudes, complaits about the most minute stuff and personal attacks toward him and the rest of the development team.
I get that some people are still mad about ME3 and Inquisition, however, those games not only don't warrant the ammount of hyperbolic hate they get IMO but using them to mount what has pretty much become a hive-minded campaign of harrasment and destabilization against the developer is stupid and toxic.
I mean for me it's definitely not that. I think the original Mass Effect Trilogy is one of the greatest roleplaying game experiences I've had in gaming, and I was there for the "golden years" of Bioware. Nothing in Baldurs Gate 2 moved me like the end arcs for Thane and Mordin in Mass Effect 3.
I'm one of those people who was:
a) Unbelievably let down by the ending to ME3. No exaggeration, it's literally the worse point of gaming for me. Partly because I love Mass Effect in general, and partly because the individual character beats in Me3 were so freaking good, but that ending pissed me off like nothing else ever has in my 30 years of gaming.
b) worry that Mass Effect will become more like Dragon Age. I really like Mass Effects focus on one character throughout the games, the trilogy aspect, the character deaths aspect etc. I enjoy Dragaon age (I liked inquisition!), but I don't want Mass Effect to be like Dragon Age. I want Dragon Age to be more like Mass Effect.
DevilDog
Member
There's nothing more to say than that I agree with almost everything people here say. It's really a sad state of affairs that BioWare is getting so much hostility, over stuff like a goddamned screenshot or a 3 second loop gif.
This hate reminds me of when I was part of the EA forums back in Battlefield 2 until their destruction in Battlefield 3.
People were hating on DICE so much because they took a thing they loved and turned it into a thing they hated, but wasted 1000+ hours on it(hated every moment of course).
It's like Shinobi said, they are so damn hateful because they used to make games they love and now they don't. I get the frustration but the "fanbase" is completely out of control. This threads is one of the few places were people are civil and informedto a very reasonable degree.
This hate reminds me of when I was part of the EA forums back in Battlefield 2 until their destruction in Battlefield 3.
People were hating on DICE so much because they took a thing they loved and turned it into a thing they hated, but wasted 1000+ hours on it(hated every moment of course).
It's like Shinobi said, they are so damn hateful because they used to make games they love and now they don't. I get the frustration but the "fanbase" is completely out of control. This threads is one of the few places were people are civil and informedto a very reasonable degree.
Poodlestrike
Banned
You know what the saddest permutation is to me? Not people taking issue with Sarah's (perfectly normal, if a little deadpan) facial expressions, it was the thing with Scott, where they had to break down the .gif into 3 screenshots to the get the effect they were going for. Like, using a .gif on a loop as a critique is stupid enough, but seriously I could take the best animated game in the world, pick and choose screen, and make it look utterly moronic. You can do that with real people, for crying out loud.
I do think that pointing fingers at oldschool types is probably missing the mark, though there's some of those. It's more people still salty over ME3. I see all those posts where it's just like "I don't know why, but I can't feel excited about this at all," and I'm like man... it's because you're still hung up on RGB endings.
I do think that pointing fingers at oldschool types is probably missing the mark, though there's some of those. It's more people still salty over ME3. I see all those posts where it's just like "I don't know why, but I can't feel excited about this at all," and I'm like man... it's because you're still hung up on RGB endings.
Retrofluxed
Member
That ending killed me. I remember talking with my wife about it (who doesn't give a fuck). I told her Mass Effect was the best sci-fi universe since Star Wars and Bioware pissed it all away by blowing up the Mass Relays (this was pre-extended cut, of course). I had discussions with my friends that played for hours on Ventrilo about it (while playing SWTOR, lol). With that said, it has been 5 years, I've moved on, I've grown to accept ME3's ending. I'm just excited we're lucky enough to be able to play another Mass Effect and get to know a whole new group of people.
The weirdest thing about this ryder model fixation is that if people don't like it why not just change it in the character creator (like i will with femryder) but instead wanting Bioware to change the default model.
Royal_Phalanx
Member
ME3 made more sense with the Leviathan DLC, felt less like space magic after.
Cpt.Underpants
Member
The running animations is light years better than me3. There's literally weight when she walks
Which has been issue with BW games since ME2, imo. DLC's flesh out main narrative so much that not playing them means you can miss out on actually crucial story stuff.
AWizardDidIt
Member
I think ME3 practically requires Leviathan and Citadel to make it a complete experience but once you add those two components it's probably the best game in the series to me. 2/3 endings I would say are even pretty damn good (Synthesis is too convenient in its space magic for me) and I kind of love they included an easter egg bonus bad ending.
Legit my biggest complaint about Bioware games last gen.
Legit my biggest complaint about Bioware games last gen.
Poodlestrike
Banned
I never really went in on the wailing and gnashing of teeth over the ending, tbh. Mostly because I played ME3 at a pretty tough time and was mostly just having fun with it, not thinking too hard. But it was disappointing. After Leviathan and the EC, though, I'm basically happy with it. It feels more like the result of the series' self-imposed issues and limitations rather than a colossal misstep in its own right, and at this point, ME3 is probably my favorite game in the series, in spite of its issues.
That too. "Wow she looks so unbelievably terrible guys this is why I can't get excited for this game." Well it has a character customizer sooooooo
ME3 was in a league of its own on this front, admittedly. From Ashes, Leviathan, and the Extended Cut were all basically essential, imo, and none came with the base game by default.
Citadel is in best-DLC-ever tier, but I don't know if I'd call it essential to a complete experience. Essential to the *best* experience, yes, but the game is basically complete without it.
And I'd actually say that Refusal and Control are the only two "good" endings, in that they're the only ones that let you just outright reject the Star Child's argument. The other two are ultimately capitulation.
DeadlyParasite
Member
I don't agree. There may be a few outliers who have fallen down that path but a lot of the people (probably including myself now) are folks who grew up on the trilogy and are frustrated about the things shown in relation to what we expect from a Mass Effect game at this point.
There's a litany of legitimate grievances and the best response one can expect is people either outright telling you you're wrong, freaking out about how you haven't played the game yet, believing you have a vendetta out for BioWare, or telling you it "could be worse", "this is to be expected", "it's not as bad as you say it is", "deal with it". How is one supposed to have a constructive conversation about what they don't like if there's no leeway given?
If we look at Inquisition this trend likely will continue this gen
Poodlestrike
Banned
You could wait to have a full picture of the game so that the criticism can actually be constructive? "I don't like thing" doesn't really qualify, especially if you've only seen a fraction of what "thing" is.
Just grabbed DAI GOTY for 15 from ongoing sale on Origin. Need to play it at some point with all DLC's so can get that full, intended, story.
Hopefully MEA DLC won't be as mandatory.
Mediking
Member
It goes like this...
Most of the people complaining... will end up buying the game anyway.
The Studiofilmmaker crowd is pretty much itching to create stuff with this game.
Discussion will stem into our favorite moments, favorite powers/weapons, etc.
Regardless if the story is good or not...a bazillion threads will be born about it on GAF.
Fan art will grow at a huge rate.
Huge sales. Most people will love the game and acknowledge its problems and look forward to Mass Effect's future.
....
The real question.... will I make a thread about how I need my Miranda successor in this game?!
Most of the people complaining... will end up buying the game anyway.
The Studiofilmmaker crowd is pretty much itching to create stuff with this game.
Discussion will stem into our favorite moments, favorite powers/weapons, etc.
Regardless if the story is good or not...a bazillion threads will be born about it on GAF.
Fan art will grow at a huge rate.
Huge sales. Most people will love the game and acknowledge its problems and look forward to Mass Effect's future.
....
The real question.... will I make a thread about how I need my Miranda successor in this game?!
prag16
Banned
That would explain shit like reddit and twitter hate. But at times the gaf hate seems almost worse, and "something something SJWs" probably wouldn't be a charge easily leveled at the gaf crowd in most cases.
shinobi602
Member
Mass Effect is a lot of things to different people. For example I saw one member say import saves and squadmate deaths were a huge selling point of the games to them. These aspects are minuscule as a whole to what the series means to me personally.
To your second point, do you feel that way in this thread? I think most people have been reasonable here and engaging.
Poodlestrike
Banned
I dunno man, Gamingside is like the wild west some days. You see those Pewdiepie threads?
*shudder*
It's not as bad as ME3 but the DLC in inquisition adds a lot to the ending imo
dr_rus
Member
Most of people complaining will wait for reviews and impressions at this point and some of them won't buy the game at all while another part will wait for a sale or opt for a rental. I'm not too sure that MEA is a guaranteed sell as even ME2-3 weren't actually setting sale records and MEA will have to fight the fatigue and damage done by ME3's ending.
AWizardDidIt
Member
I don't agree. Inquisition was a full story without any DLC. It wasn't a great story but it was complete. Trespasser totally reframes it as Solas'
villain origin story
DeadlyParasite
Member
It's a good thing then I've never explicitly outright said "I don't like thing" and then left right? I've been completely thorough in detailing my issues with every specific problem I have with what's been shown over the past 3-4 months.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Just as an outsider looking in, I don't really get that from a lot of your posts, tbh. They tend to start vague, with a lot of "I don't think this will work," and building to "serious flaws and downgrades," despite your only proof of the latter being the former guesswork.
Not trying to give you shit or anything, just saying that there might be an articulation problem.
Mediking
Member
ME:A is gonna sell over a million.... regardless of all the super enthusiasts and people who are cautious about the game..... there are still a large number of casuals who are looking at Andromeda with a smile because they want a cool space adventure.
DevilDog
Member
This is why I know people love BioWare so much more than other developers. You can't have someone have such a huge emotional response over pixels, unless you're something special.
I know what you're reffering to, just remember there are people who are kind of fangasming over this game, and will try to attack your opinions and you personally.
That doesn't mean there aren't a shit ton of BioWare haters out there, ready to watch each and every one video just to shitposting on everything.
Let's not confuse the two.
jk
You're right though. One of the founders said the same thing. If you don't like anything about what you're seeing, you're probably not the target audience.
dr_rus
Member
Over a million for an AAA multiplatform game which was five years in the making is an absolute failure these days. I don't remember if EA had any projections on how they expect MEA to sell but I'd guess that they expect no less than 5 millions.
My issue with the models as presented BTW is that male ryder in particulr just looks like another NPC model in the game. Shepherd stood out a mile away with his iconic looks - there was no-one else ingame who had the same level of detail, and you couldn't generate a character like him.
Scott Ryder looks like an NPC. He doesn't look to be based off the face model in the same way at all as Sheploo.
Now that might me me being really unfair, and when we are ingame he looks great, but I can't shake the fact he doesn't look special like shepherd did, and to me personally actually looks worse as a character model because of it (despite the increased graphics, polygons etc etc).
And yes Devildog, you can only get so astonishingly passionate about an ending if you love something so much in the first place. I actually *cried* at one point in ME3, which is the first (and last!) time that's ever happened in a video game. Both Thane and Mordin's deaths really affected me, because I felt like I had a connection to them and cared about their storylines in a way that I haven't for any other character in a game. Partly because they had two games to grow and develop, partly because of the loyalty missions in Me2, and partly because they were damn well written in ME3 and their endings were perfect for them.
Blizzard have said they prefer fans who shout and rage, because it means they are still emotionally invested - whats far worse are fans who shrug, go "meh" and then leave and don't come back.
Scott Ryder looks like an NPC. He doesn't look to be based off the face model in the same way at all as Sheploo.
Now that might me me being really unfair, and when we are ingame he looks great, but I can't shake the fact he doesn't look special like shepherd did, and to me personally actually looks worse as a character model because of it (despite the increased graphics, polygons etc etc).
And yes Devildog, you can only get so astonishingly passionate about an ending if you love something so much in the first place. I actually *cried* at one point in ME3, which is the first (and last!) time that's ever happened in a video game. Both Thane and Mordin's deaths really affected me, because I felt like I had a connection to them and cared about their storylines in a way that I haven't for any other character in a game. Partly because they had two games to grow and develop, partly because of the loyalty missions in Me2, and partly because they were damn well written in ME3 and their endings were perfect for them.
Blizzard have said they prefer fans who shout and rage, because it means they are still emotionally invested - whats far worse are fans who shrug, go "meh" and then leave and don't come back.
Officer.Sanchez
Member
I really enjoyed all the positive feedback during the combat and skill profile videos. Trolls and shitposters being buried under positive comments, it was great.
I think this preview video has nothing interesting to offer, all I saw was boring combat (I blame the player), characters never shut up, scan this, scan that, hand holding and terrible AI. This leads to frustration and the negative wave begins, amplified by the regular shitposting.
That's the only positive point I saw. The weight of your armor and how your body and legs react to the environment... and that's all.... IMO.
I think this preview video has nothing interesting to offer, all I saw was boring combat (I blame the player), characters never shut up, scan this, scan that, hand holding and terrible AI. This leads to frustration and the negative wave begins, amplified by the regular shitposting.
That's the only positive point I saw. The weight of your armor and how your body and legs react to the environment... and that's all.... IMO.
It's. She is very skinny and slim. Body tight armor just highlights that.
shinobi602
Member
Mock reviews are good btw.
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