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[Gozer the Gozerian]

Bioware was very clear and stated multiple times that the default/no import save state choices (Wrex dead, very few side quests completed, etc.) were generally selected only to minimize recurring characters to not confuse new players, and NOT that these default states were in any way 'canon'.

 

[Zantetsuken88]

I've only played this trilogy all the way though once and I was pure Paragon, saved everybody and played a Male Shepard.

Should I feel bad that, when I come to play it again, I don't want to try renegade, I don't want to try femshep. I fell in love with the game I played and want to experience it that way again?

The only difference for me would be that I'd get Zaeed and Javik because I couldn't afford to buy them first time round.

Would I be making a terrible mistake?

 

[JeffG]

I've only played this trilogy all the way though once and I was pure Paragon, saved everybody and played a Male Shepard.

Should I feel bad that, when I come to play it again, I don't want to try renegade, I don't want to try femshep. I fell in love with the game I played and want to experience it that way again?

The only difference for me would be that I'd get Zaeed and Javik because I couldn't afford to buy them first time round.

Would I be making a terrible mistake?

Mistake?? I not I would classify it as a mistake. You end up missing ~1/2 of the dialog. Some of it is small stuff, some of it is funny. Playing full renegade can be fun (until ME3 IMO) You won't get any romance options because everyone thinks your are a dick.

and the FemShep voice acting is waaaaaay better IMO

 

[Patryn]

I've only played this trilogy all the way though once and I was pure Paragon, saved everybody and played a Male Shepard.

Should I feel bad that, when I come to play it again, I don't want to try renegade, I don't want to try femshep. I fell in love with the game I played and want to experience it that way again?

The only difference for me would be that I'd get Zaeed and Javik because I couldn't afford to buy them first time round.

Would I be making a terrible mistake?

Dude. I've beaten Mass Effect 1 10 times. 4 of those were as a paragon sentinel femshep. 3 of the times were as a paragon engineer femshep. 1 time as a paragon infiltrator femshep. 1 time as a paragon sentinel maleshep. 1 time as a paragon adept maleshep.

I've beaten Mass Effect 2 5 times. 4 of those times were as a paragon engineer femshep. 1 time as a paragon adept maleshep.

I've beaten Mass Effect 3 2 times. Both times as a paragon engineer femshep.

My point being, the series is still terrific even if you're basically replaying it the same way.

Then again, I love replaying my favorite games, so I'm maybe not the best source.

 

[prag16]

Dude. I've beaten Mass Effect 1 10 times. 4 of those were as a paragon sentinel femshep. 3 of the times were as a paragon engineer femshep. 1 time as a paragon infiltrator femshep. 1 time as a paragon sentinel maleshep. 1 time as a paragon adept maleshep.

I've beaten Mass Effect 2 5 times. 4 of those times were as a paragon engineer femshep. 1 time as a paragon adept maleshep.

I've beaten Mass Effect 3 2 times. Both times as a paragon engineer femshep.

My point being, the series is still terrific even if you're basically replaying it the same way.

Then again, I love replaying my favorite games, so I'm maybe not the best source.

I've gone mostly paragon as well.

ME1 Paragon Infiltrator
ME1 Renegade Engineer
ME1 Paragon Adept (femshep)

ME2 Paragon Infiltrator
ME2 Renegade Vanguard
ME2 Paragon Infiltrator (femshep)

ME3 Paragon Infiltrator
ME3 Renegade Infiltrator
ME3 Paragon Infiltrator
ME3 Paragon Infiltrator (femshep)
ME3 Renegade Infiltrator

Apparently I like infiltrating.

 

[figadapaura]

I've only played this trilogy all the way though once and I was pure Paragon, saved everybody and played a Male Shepard.

Should I feel bad that, when I come to play it again, I don't want to try renegade, I don't want to try femshep. I fell in love with the game I played and want to experience it that way again?

The only difference for me would be that I'd get Zaeed and Javik because I couldn't afford to buy them first time round.

Would I be making a terrible mistake?

Nah, I've played through the trilogy about 10 times at this point and I've played Renegade once, and that was only to see what it was like. By the end, I hated it and immediately played the games again with my original Shepard. I've played with the same Shepard at least 5 or 6 times, same decisions, same class, everything. I pretty much never replay games either, but something about Mass Effect kept me coming back.

Just do what you enjoy.

 

[Zantetsuken88]

Your answers have made me feel better ) When I replay I might try a different class, since I played as Vanguard the first time.

Shame really, because I have too much Final Fantasy X/X-2, and P4G to complete before I dive back in to Mass Effect. I have such a huge backlog

 

[Winterfang]

Just realized...you don't even know Grunt...the 2nd greatest Krogan ever made.

Of course I know Grunt, he is from ME2. Also he is the coolest looking Krogan and has ammo.

I guess I should play ME1 to understand some things, like how Tali has fans.

 

[prag16]

I guess I should play ME1 to understand some things, like how Tali has fans.

I played through ME1 three times and still don't understand that one. Probably never will.

 

[Shaunboy97]

My ONLY wish is that humans aren't the ugliest of all the races O___O

 

[Zantetsuken88]

I guess I should play ME1 to understand some things, like how Tali has fans.

I played through ME1 three times and still don't understand that one. Probably never will.

Wat.

I frickin love Tali. I romanced the crap out of her because I liked her so much. Does nobody else think she's cute and hilarious?

Spoiler

gay, so I might be looking for different qualities compared to some others.

 

[BouncyFrag]

Speaking of Tali. Any discussion of her fan base obliges me to post this from the BSN forums in regards to Tali's sweat. You can't make this shit up.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Dude. I've beaten Mass Effect 1 10 times. 4 of those were as a paragon sentinel femshep. 3 of the times were as a paragon engineer femshep. 1 time as a paragon infiltrator femshep. 1 time as a paragon sentinel maleshep. 1 time as a paragon adept maleshep.

I've beaten Mass Effect 2 5 times. 4 of those times were as a paragon engineer femshep. 1 time as a paragon adept maleshep.

I've beaten Mass Effect 3 2 times. Both times as a paragon engineer femshep.

My point being, the series is still terrific even if you're basically replaying it the same way.

Then again, I love replaying my favorite games, so I'm maybe not the best source.

I've gone mostly paragon as well.

ME1 Paragon Infiltrator
ME1 Renegade Engineer
ME1 Paragon Adept (femshep)

ME2 Paragon Infiltrator
ME2 Renegade Vanguard
ME2 Paragon Infiltrator (femshep)

ME3 Paragon Infiltrator
ME3 Renegade Infiltrator
ME3 Paragon Infiltrator
ME3 Paragon Infiltrator (femshep)
ME3 Renegade Infiltrator

Apparently I like infiltrating.

Pure Paragon Shep is much more rewarded in ME3 than Pure Renegade Shep, it's not even fair.

 

[Tatersalad]

Anyone else part of the 43% that plays soldier? I like having the different weapon options and don't care for having to keep selecting abilities from the wheel (besides the couple you hotkey), breaks up the pace of firefights.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Anyone else part of the 43% that plays soldier? I like having the different weapon options and don't care for having to keep selecting abilities from the wheel (besides the couple you hotkey), breaks up the pace of firefights.

I am currently playing a mostly Paragon Garrus-loving Soldier FemShep.

Explosive burst with M7 Avenger (really now, this gun is very powerful--stable, packs a punch, and with automatic ammo refill? DAMN) + Amplified Concussive Shots = Lots of explosion. It's staggering how quick this can kill armored opponents in Insanity such as Brutes and Banshees!

It's quite fun, but the most fun I have with Shepard was with Adept Shepard. Infiltrator was quite boring.... never played Engineers or Sentinels.

 

[Laughing Banana]

It's not clear if anything could stop Sovereign from landing separately even if they tried. If the Citadel wasn't already on high alert with battle fleets primed for combat (as it was in ME1) and it suddenly warped in, what's going to happen? Saren ONLY needs the Conduit so he, personally, can reach the citadel council chambers and transfer control to Sovereign. And he doesn't need it, because he's a sepctre, and he has persmission to walk wherever he fucking wants on the citadel. Shepard can go to the exact terminal even when he doesn't have to meet with the council. It's not heavily guarded, it's just another citadel computer in the tower area of the citadel. The council will never actually realize he's with that strange Alien ship that suddenly appeared and attached itself to the Citadel.

Saren is pursuing the conduit in order to get access to the Citadel.... but he only lost access to the Citadel because he was pursuing the conduit.

Can't believe I've never noticed this before.

not sure if that, but basically Saren had everything in place and ready to go. everything. before ME1 starts.

no point to the whole story.

I thought that the program required to take control of the Citadel is the one he got from Ilos, and at that point since his evil is already known and he's not a Spectre anymore so it's not like he can just waltz in after his visit to Ilos.

 

[figadapaura]

Speaking of Tali. Any discussion of her fan base obliges me to post this from the BSN forums in regards to Tali's sweat. You can't make this shit up.

That's some dedication, I guess.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

I thought that the program required to take control of the Citadel is the one he got from Ilos, and at that point since his evil is already known and he's not a Spectre anymore so it's not like he can just waltz in after his visit to Ilos.

Nothing to that effect is ever alluded to and Vigil only reveals its existence to Shepard, specifically. They are explicitly in search of the conduit and even when we see things from their perspective in flashes, cutscenes etc they never mention anything about a datafile. Even before being discovered he's only talking about the conduit as being the key to the return of the reapers, although he has no reason to actually need it at that stage.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Nothing to that effect is ever alluded to and Vigil only reveals its existence to Shepard, specifically. They are explicitly in search of the conduit and even when we see things from their perspective in flashes, cutscenes etc they never mention anything about a datafile. Even before being discovered he's only talking about the conduit as being the key to the return of the reapers, although he has no reason to actually need it at that stage.

Well, Vigil specifically said something to the effect of "take this program with you and it will give you full Citadel control" so I assume that "full Citadel control" is not something that anyone can normally have even if they're Spectre. Remember, much of the Citadel is a complete unknown, and the only ones to have full Citadel control are the keepers but the Protheans disabled their invasion-enabling functionality so Sovereign+Saren&Co, who do not have the ability to reactivate the Keepers, must find another solution to do so, which is from Ilos.

So presumably Saren couldn't just walk in to the Council Chamber when he's a Spectre and activate the platform and control the Citadel. No one can at that point.

As from where he got the program similar to the one Vigil gave to Shepard... well, *shrugs* Maybe he found it on some console somewhere where he investigated the Conduit on Ilos or something, hahaha

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

It's not like anybody can get full control over the citadel, but Saren is working for Sovereign, who is a Reaper, the species that built the Citadel. Sovereign needs to attach to the Citadel and Saren is setting up the wifi to hook him into the system, or whatever.

 

[Patryn]

I thought that the program required to take control of the Citadel is the one he got from Ilos, and at that point since his evil is already known and he's not a Spectre anymore so it's not like he can just waltz in after his visit to Ilos.

Vigil only gave the program to Shepard because she's not indoctrinated. Vigil never contacted Saren and in fact avoided contacting him. At no point does Saren ever mention getting a program from Ilos.

The only thing Saren got from Ilos was access to the Conduit.

 

[Dany]

Speaking of Tali. Any discussion of her fan base obliges me to post this from the BSN forums in regards to Tali's sweat. You can't make this shit up.

She sweats urine?

 

[Edwardo]

Anyone else part of the 43% that plays soldier? I like having the different weapon options and don't care for having to keep selecting abilities from the wheel (besides the couple you hotkey), breaks up the pace of firefights.

Yea I went with soldier too.

 

[Nostremitus]

Anyone else part of the 43% that plays soldier? I like having the different weapon options and don't care for having to keep selecting abilities from the wheel (besides the couple you hotkey), breaks up the pace of firefights.

Right here. Mass Effect 3 did soldier right with the ability to boost your recharge speed by reducing weight. I rocked the hell out of incinerating concussive blasts by only carrying a pistol.

 

[EatChildren]

Don't mind Mike Gamble.

Just casually tweeting offscreen, low res shots of sci fi art and character profile.

 

[Dany]

"OH LOOK AT THIS WALL"

>_>

 

[prag16]

Don't mind Mike Gamble.

Just casually tweeting offscreen, low res shots of sci fi art and character profile.

Haha what a troll. -_-

 

[TheChaos]

Looks like a bug or something. Log in on the PS3 store and check the ME3 add-ons and the Omega version is listed as free.

Downloaded it 20 minutes ago and not near my PS3, can anyone check if it's still there?

Edit:

Gonna create a new thread, whoops.

 

[Winterfang]

Wat.

I frickin love Tali. I romanced the crap out of her because I liked her so much. Does nobody else think she's cute and hilarious?

Spoiler

gay, so I might be looking for different qualities compared to some others.

Tali (like most Quarians you met) is a selfish jackass that only things of herself. She is also incredibly inept and had countless Quarians died under her command. A command she didn't earned like Shepard or even Grunt, it was just because of her father. A father who also responsible for the lives of a lot of Quarians demise just because Tali just wanted to experience Rannoch in her lifetime. Did she seemed to struggled because of the death of all those people because of her? Nope, she didn't even had the spine to oppose the Quarians retaking of Rannoch until Shepard came.

Also after you made peace with the Geth, not only does she immediately pulls out a gun on the first prime she sees but also says she said she wouldn't hesitate to eliminate all the Geth. I hate her guts.

Anyone else part of the 43% that plays soldier? I like having the different weapon options and don't care for having to keep selecting abilities from the wheel (besides the couple you hotkey), breaks up the pace of firefights.

Soldier class is best class. The weapons are a lot more fun that the powers in the game and there's a lot of options with the extra powers. I put every single stat into maximizing weapon damage in my last run and I was killing Banshees with a single Javelin Headshot. It's incredibly satisfying.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Tali (like most Quarians you met) is a selfish jackass that only things of herself (1). She is also incredibly inept and had countless Quarians died under her command. A command she didn't earned like Shepard or even Grunt, it was just because of her father. A father who also responsible for the lives of a lot of Quarians demise just because Tali just wanted to experience Rannoch in her lifetime(2). Did she seemed to struggled because of the death of all those people because of her(3)? Nope, she didn't even had the spine to oppose the Quarians retaking of Rannoch until Shepard came(4)

Uhhhh...

(1) The games put great pains to characterize Tali as a selfless individual. Heck, she even postponed her pilgrimage affairs in ME1 just so that she could join Shepard chasing Saren.

(2) Did you miss the whole "I never wanted this" speech from her during her loyalty mission on ME2

(3) Uhhhhh she has a PTSD due to the deaths of people under her command, which can be seen from Lair of the Shadow Broker.

(4) Uhhhhhhhhh it's not like she's the only arbiter: she's just recently appointed as Admiral (or consulted if she's exiled in 2) and her + Koris' were outnumbered by the ones who wanted the war against Geth.

 

[figadapaura]

Tali (like most Quarians you met) is a selfish jackass that only things of herself. She is also incredibly inept and had countless Quarians died under her command. A command she didn't earned like Shepard or even Grunt, it was just because of her father. A father who also responsible for the lives of a lot of Quarians demise just because Tali just wanted to experience Rannoch in her lifetime. Did she seemed to struggled because of the death of all those people because of her? Nope, she didn't even had the spine to oppose the Quarians retaking of Rannoch until Shepard came.

Also after you made peace with the Geth, not only does she immediately pulls out a gun on the first prime she sees but also says she said she wouldn't hesitate to eliminate all the Geth. I hate her guts.

I'm really baffled by all of this. You actually blame her for what her father did, simply because she wanted something that every other quarian in the galaxy wanted?

And she had literally only just been appointed Admiral. Something she didn't feel she deserved at all, which is why she needed a pep talk from Shepard. She still stands up for herself. And of course she felt bad about those deaths, did you pay attention to anything she said?

Can you really blame her for taking out her gun? It's not like you'd met many friendly geth up until that point. She did actually lower her gun once she knew it wasn't going to attack. Did you also miss the part where she told Legion it had a soul? She even talks later about how the geth and quarians are finally working together, and that the geth are helping them get their immune systems back faster than normal. She talks about missing Legion for crying out loud.

Finally, the geth forced her entire species off their home planet. In her mind they're just pieces of technology, which she clearly changes her mind on when she mentions Legion having a soul. I'm pretty sure she wasn't aware of the stuff Shepard found out about the Morning War inside the geth census. She's been taught to hate them from the day she was born. She'll die from an infection if she doesn't wear an enviro-suit every day of her life, which, in her eyes, the geth are to blame for. Why wouldn't she want to eliminate them?

 

[Winterfang]

Tali has as much choice as Shepard does but she is spineless. She could refuse getting the high rank job, knowing that she was not ready for it. But instead she accepted and a lot of Quarians died because of her poor leadership.

Her bonding mission in ME2 involves lying in front of a jury and hiding of evidence for God's sake. I like to drag here's father name through the mud and then take her with me to the final battle just to make sure she dies and the last thing she sees is Shepard's disappointed face. Of course I also keep another save do I can also watch her jump if the cliff in ME3 while I don't even bother to do a paragon interrupt.

There's of course the chance that she is a better character once you become a couple with her (turned my opinion if Liara around), but she saying that she wouldn't hesitate to eliminate all of the Geth, even after I saved both races rubbed the wrong way.

 

[Dennis]

Speaking of Tali. Any discussion of her fan base obliges me to post this from the BSN forums in regards to Tali's sweat. You can't make this shit up.

ASS

Disclaimer: I have a PhD in Molceular Biology

 

[rdrr gnr]

ASS

Disclaimer: I have a PhD in Molceular Biology

LIES

 

[Nostremitus]

I never really understood why people liked the Quarians either. They created an intelligent race to enslave, then attempted mass genocide as soon as they questioned their purpose. The Geth who were fighting in self defense chose not to exterminate the Quarians, instead allowing them to leave in peace. The Quarians, being racist and xenophobic, chose to huddle in their fleet disconnected from the other races until they could no longer survive outside their suits. They twisted the events into some great slight against them in order to gain sympathy from the galaxy all the while continuing to actively search for ways to destroy the Geth, when all they ever had to do was return to their home world and open peaceful communication.

The Quarians are bigger villains than the Reapers. The Reapers believed what they were doing was the only way the preserve life. The Quarians just wanted to enslave or murder all nonbiological life forms. It could be argued that the Reapers exist because of entities like the Quarians and the types of wars they create.

Edit: sorry for the run ons and disconnected thoughts. It's 1:30am here and I've had a bit of drink.

 

[EatChildren]

Alistair McNally ‏@Al_McNally
#E32014 will be a sensual assault on your input accoutremnets via exciting thrilltainment. Calling it now #BioWare.

.

 

[wolfhowwl]

It's been ages since I played ME2.

On her loyalty mission, does Tali say anything about all the people (and their families) that her dad got killed or does she just keep going on about protecting his legacy?

Also it's great that the Paragon option there is to cover up what happened on behalf of a criminal (war criminal if you accept synthetics are alive) who got everyone under his command killed with his negligence while it's Renegade to reveal the truth. Nice, Bioware.

 

[Nostremitus]

It's been ages since I played ME2.

On her loyalty mission, does Tali say anything about all the people (and their families) that her dad got killed or does she just keep going on about protecting his legacy?

Also it's great that the Paragon option there is to cover up what happened on behalf of a criminal (war criminal if you accept synthetics are alive) who got everyone under his command killed with his negligence while it's Renegade to reveal the truth. Nice, Bioware.

Yeah, her dad was the Mass Effect equivalent of a Nazi scientist conducting experiments on POWs.

 

[Musolf815]

I just realized how interesting it's going to be culture wise if Mass Effect: Subtitle does take place after ME3. A lot of their main arcs, the genophage for the Turians/Krogans/Salarians or the Geth/Quarian stuff were wrapped up in ME3. What will their arcs be for the new game I wonder? I hope Bioware comes up with some awesome new motivations and conflicts for them all.

 

[Corsick]

I just realized how interesting it's going to be culture wise if Mass Effect: Subtitle does take place after ME3. A lot of their main arcs, the genophage for the Turians/Krogans/Salarians or the Geth/Quarian stuff were wrapped up in ME3. What will their arcs be for the new game I wonder? I hope Bioware comes up with some awesome new motivations and conflicts for them all.

To me the most obvious and believable reason would be a battle for resources. It's why I think themes about reconstruction and exploration would be perfect. You have the race for resources to rebuild broken homeworlds, the new luxury of being able to explore without the threat of galactic destruction gnawing at your conscience, and the intrigue of seeing who blinks first and tries to take advantage of one of the races greatly weakened by the war (the question is, who would be in a position to do this since everyone was hit hard by the war). The reapers should have taught the galaxy a lesson in always being prepared and being united, but someone will always try to abuse the collective sigh everyone has let out. I really want to see systems that were largely unexplored get fleshed out more. The talk of more meaningful and open places to explore jives well with the possibilities in this new ME.

 

[Spectral Entity]

...

 

[Spectral Entity]

I've only played this trilogy all the way though once and I was pure Paragon, saved everybody and played a Male Shepard.

Should I feel bad that, when I come to play it again, I don't want to try renegade, I don't want to try femshep. I fell in love with the game I played and want to experience it that way again?

The only difference for me would be that I'd get Zaeed and Javik because I couldn't afford to buy them first time round.

Would I be making a terrible mistake?

Nope.

I always played as default Earthborn sole survivor soldier Sheploo, 3/4 Paragon, 1/4 Renegade.

Def go renegade during Omega, best way to experience it!

 

[Boss Mog]

My dream would obviously be drop in co-op.

 

[ref]

So I'm curious, would you say it's worth it to play ME3 again with all the DLC? I've only played it twice, once at launch, and another time when the extended cut DLC came out.

I'll be honest, I really didn't like core ME3, just curious if the DLC is worth the time investment? Citadel at least looks silly, and if I go into it looking at it that way, I feel I may enjoy it.

As for what I hope the next game is like, (will never happen, but hey) is make it more like ME1 in every single way. (Yes, even combat. Although I'd be fine with ME3 'feeling' gameplay, but with ME1 customization/no global cooldowns).

I've replayed ME1 so many times, and starting to feel like playing it again, it's just so good. The atmosphere, writing and story are just miles ahead of 2 and 3 in my opinion.

 

[Taker34]

It's been ages since I played ME2.

On her loyalty mission, does Tali say anything about all the people (and their families) that her dad got killed or does she just keep going on about protecting his legacy?

Also it's great that the Paragon option there is to cover up what happened on behalf of a criminal (war criminal if you accept synthetics are alive) who got everyone under his command killed with his negligence while it's Renegade to reveal the truth. Nice, Bioware.

That's only half of the story. What her father did wasn't her fault, so why does she have to suffer for his mistakes? Revealing what happened there wouldn't change anything (Geth were a hivemind back then, not individuals), except the fleet would lose an important member of their community. Shepard is protecting Tali, so there's nothing paragon about that - except if he would lie. But Shep avoided their question and it was obviously enough "evidence" for the jury.
I think that unconditional friendship and support is the most important reocurring theme in the ME-series. That's why everyone has weaknesses in this game/in reality, just like your crew, you, Shepard and everyone else.

 

[DTKT]

Don't mind Mike Gamble.

Just casually tweeting offscreen, low res shots of sci fi art and character profile.

Actually, that's not a character profile, it's a screenshot from a Polygon piece on Brian Fargo!

http://www.polygon.com/features/2014/5/2/5613114/wasteland-2-fallout-brian-fargo

 

[LX_Theo]

I really hope the next Mass Effect makes the main character a fast talking (or optionally fast talking) smuggler or something of that nature. I think it would be really nice to have a more low key story that less stakes than the universe and whatnot, and that'd be a cool way to go about it.

 

[Winterfang]

So I'm curious, would you say it's worth it to play ME3 again with all the DLC? I've only played it twice, once at launch, and another time when the extended cut DLC came out.

I'll be honest, I really didn't like core ME3, just curious if the DLC is worth the time investment? Citadel at least looks silly, and if I go into it looking at it that way, I feel I may enjoy it.

As for what I hope the next game is like, (will never happen, but hey) is make it more like ME1 in every single way. (Yes, even combat. Although I'd be fine with ME3 'feeling' gameplay, but with ME1 customization/no global cooldowns).

I've replayed ME1 so many times, and starting to feel like playing it again, it's just so good. The atmosphere, writing and story are just miles ahead of 2 and 3 in my opinion.

As someone that's replayed ME3 more than 10 times, I'll say absolutely. I got the Protean DLC and it already felt like a different game. Also it's good to experience the main missions with different partners to see how they react. Edi is really smart and notice things in a different way, Javik brings a fresh view of the evens also being somewhat of an expert but also experience it for the first time again.

 

[figadapaura]

Tali has as much choice as Shepard does but she is spineless. She could refuse getting the high rank job, knowing that she was not ready for it. But instead she accepted and a lot of Quarians died because of her poor leadership.

lol, wut. The same thing happens when she isn't an admiral (even when she's dead ffs) so how exactly is it a result of her 'poor leadership', and not because Han'Gerrel is hellbent on war? Even Zaal'Koris, who has been an admiral for much longer than Tali, can't stop the war even though he wants no part in it because Shala'Raan is sitting on the fence and Daro'Xen doesn't care as long as she gets to play around with some geth. Please explain to me how Tali alone could have prevented that situation. I feel like you've retroactively given yourself reasons to hate her.

Her bonding mission in ME2 involves lying in front of a jury and hiding of evidence for God's sake. I like to drag here's father name through the mud and then take her with me to the final battle just to make sure she dies and the last thing she sees is Shepard's disappointed face. Of course I also keep another save do I can also watch her jump if the cliff in ME3 while I don't even bother to do a paragon interrupt.

Dude wtf at that last part. You hate her because she didn't want her dad, who she had only just found dead, to be remembered as a war criminal? Am I reading that right? It's not like Tali being exiled would have benefited anyone. And, technically, Shepard doesn't actually lie about the evidence, s/he just doesn't answer the question. My favourite option in that part is Rally the Crowd anyway in which Kal'Reegar has this to say:

"Tali's done more for this fleet than you assholes ever will."

Definitely sounds like someone incredibly selfish.

There's of course the chance that she is a better character once you become a couple with her (turned my opinion if Liara around), but she saying that she wouldn't hesitate to eliminate all of the Geth, even after I saved both races rubbed the wrong way.

Seriously though, I've never romanced Tali (I only ever play as femshep but I see her more like a little sister anyway), so that's not why I'm defending her. I really do think you need to play ME1 tbh, you'll get a better understanding of her feelings about the geth if anything. Maybe you'll learn to love Wrex too.

I never really understood why people liked the Quarians either. They created an intelligent race to enslave, then attempted mass genocide as soon as they questioned their purpose. The Geth who were fighting in self defense chose not to exterminate the Quarians, instead allowing them to leave in peace. The Quarians, being racist and xenophobic, chose to huddle in their fleet disconnected from the other races until they could no longer survive outside their suits. They twisted the events into some great slight against them in order to gain sympathy from the galaxy all the while continuing to actively search for ways to destroy the Geth, when all they ever had to do was return to their home world and open peaceful communication.

The Quarians are bigger villains than the Reapers. The Reapers believed what they were doing was the only way the preserve life. The Quarians just wanted to enslave or murder all nonbiological life forms. It could be argued that the Reapers exist because of entities like the Quarians and the types of wars they create.

Edit: sorry for the run ons and disconnected thoughts. It's 1:30am here and I've had a bit of drink.

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[Mindlog]

Tali (like most Quarians you met) is a selfish jackass that only things of herself. She is also incredibly inept and had countless Quarians died under her command. A command she didn't earned like Shepard or even Grunt, it was just because of her father.

Wait are you talking about Tali or Garrus?

Can't wait to hear more about Mass Effect multiplayer.
It's goofy fun.